How can Genesis be taken literally by what is said in Genesis?

TheLostCoin

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There are those who insist we take Genesis very very literally, but from reading the text itself, I struggle in how - just from the text, let’s ignore the Dinosaurs and everything else for now - one can take it literally when there are contradictions both from the text itself and what is in “observable science.”

Let’s start with Genesis 1.

For one, we have the creation of night and day as completely separate from the the creation of the moon and the sun, which are described as “lights.” (Genesis 1:1-19)

However, we know based on “observational science” that the Earth is simultaneously both light and dark as a result of the Earth’s rotation relative to the Sun. How can God create light and dark as separate from the Sun, when it’s known that the Sun is the source of light?

Even Origen recognized that this made little sense and argued that the 7 Days had to be symbolic, and argued for instantaneous creation on the basis that the first chapter couldn’t be reconciled with what was known of the world.

Also, while the Sun can be classified as a “light,” how is the Moon a “light”? Doesn’t Genesis suggest that the Moon is just a weak light like the Sun, even though the moon merely reflects the light of the Sun?

For two, we have Genesis 1:6-8, where the creation of a firmament which contains the waters is made. What is this firmament? Men have been to outer space and there is no visible firmament of the waters above. Rain apparently comes in when this firmament opens, but we know based on meteorology that water comes from the cycle of evaporation and condensation.

Now let’s look at Genesis 2:4 onwards.

There are very clearly two contradictory Genesis stories that have been combined together. From Genesis 2:4 onward, we have an introduction about the origin of the world which gives an account of creation that is different than what we understand from Genesis 1.

So, we read in Genesis 2:5-7 that before there were any plants, God allowed water to spring into the ground, and from the slime God formed man and then planted a Garden.

But according to Genesis 1:11-31, the plants were made before man. If it were the case that the plants were already made, why does Genesis 2:5-7 say that there were no shrubs that had yet appeared on the Earth?

Then, we have the fact that God forms all the animals and brings them to Adam (Genesis 2:19-20), yet according to Genesis 1:24-26, God formed all the animals before he made man and woman.

Now, the verb “formed” in Hebrew from what I can understand can be Pluperfect and understood to mean “he had formed”, but considering that Genesis 2:4 clearly has an opening line like the beginning of a story, and the fact that there is already a major contradiction in the timeline of Genesis, I think that this should be seen as another contradiction of the timeline as there was no mention of animals yet.

Finally, look at the Hebrew texts themselves. Up till Genesis 2:4, there is clearly one type of literary structure - one type of Hebrew poetic structure - and then it changes drastically from Genesis 2:4 onwards. Genesis 1:1-2:3 refers to God as “YHWH,” whereas Genesis 2:4 onwards refers to Him as “Adonai” or “Lord.” Moreover, in Genesis 1:1-2:3, God created everything out of nothing, whereas Genesis 2:4 onwards has God with anthropomorphic characteristics and has Him form everything out of something that already exists.

So then it’s argued - “Well, okay, there’s some contradictions and the Book of Genesis is framed from a Semitic Mythological framework of how the world was and came to be, so there’s some parts that should be flexible.”

Okay, but the question is this - if how literally we take Genesis is open up to interpretation, why should we believe Adam and Eve even interacted with a Snake at all? That there was a Garden? In a 7 Day Creation? That there was a literal Adam and Eve? That there were Dinosaurs with Adam and Eve?
 
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ArmyMatt

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1. night and day prior to the creation of the sun and moon were not based on the earth's rotation. the moon is a light in that it reflects the light of the sun.

2. whatever the prefallen firmament was, that was prior to both the Fall and the Flood.

3. there are more to plants than shrubs and plants of the field.

4. God formed the animals, formed man, then brought them to be named by man.
 
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Jonaitis

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That there were Dinosaurs with Adam and Eve?

A little off-topic, although related, you know what I found that was interesting? That the fossil record of the dinosaurs are almost entirely absent in the Near East. Most of them we find in the Americas as well. Is it possible that God created some land animals in other parts of the world that Adam was not only unaware of, but did not necessarily had to name? I mean, this is interesting is it not? If the human population, even in Noah's time, was concentrated in the Middle East, then we wouldn't have to see them, thus no written record of them in the text, nor any assumption that they survived the flood (that, of course, if we take "two of every animal" to mean a pair of the known animals to man).

So, back to the subject(s) at hand: I believe we should take this biblical record as divinely inspired, literal, and inerrant. If not, I see this leading to other serious issues with our theology. ArmyMatt gave a good answer, although I would prefer to expand on it. We must take it by faith.
 
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St_Worm2

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...we have the creation of night and day as completely separate from the the creation of the moon and the sun, which are described as “lights.” (Genesis 1:1-19)
Hi TheLostCoin, that is definitely problematic, unless there was a different source of light prior the creation of our sun :idea: Here is one possibility to consider .. Revelation 22:5.

Gotta run, but I hope to return a little later (Dv)

--David

Revelation 22
5 Night will be no more. They will need no light of lamp or sun, for the Lord God will be their light, and they will reign forever and ever.
 
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St_Worm2

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...while the Sun can be classified as a “light,” how is the Moon a “light”? Doesn’t Genesis suggest that the Moon is just a weak light like the Sun, even though the moon merely reflects the light of the Sun?
The moon (which is referred to as a "lesser light" in Genesis 1:16, certainly lights up the night sky and ground) is referred to as "light" outside of the Bible as well, yes? In fact, it's oft times referred to in literature and movies where romance is concerned .. "Moonlight" ;) And many poems and songs have been written about it. For instance, Beethoven's "Moonlight Sonata", or this lovely piece by Debussy:

Crank up your speakers :)
For two, we have Genesis 1:6-8, where the creation of a firmament which contains the waters is made. What is this firmament? Men have been to outer space and there is no visible firmament of the waters above. Rain apparently comes in when this firmament opens, but we know based on meteorology that water comes from the cycle of evaporation and condensation.
"Firmament" is also translated "Expanse" (or "Sky"). So the waters in the "expanse above" are the waters that we find in the sky. The narrative here is not attempting to convey its meaning with the precise terminology used by modern day science, but from the perspective of the reader when he/she looks up at the sky. Therefore both the clouds, as well the moon and the stars, are seen as being in the "expanse" above. The lack of scientifically precise language is not problematic in this case, because it does not fail to properly convey God's intended meaning (about this part of the Creation), nor does it make what is said by God in any way less true :preach:
Now let’s look at Genesis 2:4 onwards.

There are very clearly two contradictory Genesis stories that have been combined together. From Genesis 2:4 onward, we have an introduction about the origin of the world which gives an account of creation that is different than what we understand from Genesis 1. + Plants & Animals
Actually, there is one "Creation", but it is spoken of in two different accounts/from two different perspectives. Genesis 1 gives the general account of all seven days of the Creation, while Genesis 2:4 and following concerns itself principally with a detailed expansion/elaboration of the 6th Day of the Creation, with particular regard to the creation and early history of mankind. As for the supposed "contradictions" in the Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 accounts of the creation of plants and animals (as before or after the creation of mankind):

1. Plants/Vegetation - different Hebrew words are used in Gen 1 & 2. Genesis 1 speaks of vegetation in general, Genesis 2 speaks of the kinds of vegetation that is agricultural and requires, as v5 indicates, someone to "cultivate" it.

2. Animals - while the verb tense is certainly important to note, it's perhaps more important to look at the context in this case. Genesis 2:19 is simply part of an additional, detailed look at a part of the 6th Day of Creation, and in this particular case, of the creation of Eve (and women in general, of course). It is hardly written with the precision of a scientific textbook, rather, God chooses to continue His narrative (rather than a didactic teaching) about the Creation (mentioning the creation of the animals and birds again, but this time for a different/very specific reason ... see the words in bold below):

Genesis 2
18 The LORD God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone; I will make him a helper suitable for him.”
19 Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the sky, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called a living creature, that was its name.
20 The man gave names to all the cattle, and to the birds of the sky, and to every beast of the field, but for Adam there was not found a helper suitable for him.
21 So the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and he slept; then He took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh at that place.
22 The LORD God fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, and brought her to the man.
23 The man said,
“This is now bone of my bones,
And flesh of my flesh;
She shall be called Woman,
Because she was taken out of Man.”
24 For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.
25 And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed.

God did ~not~ intend this as a chronological accounting of the Creation, rather, v19 is simply part of His narrative concerning the creation of Eve (specifically "why" she was created ... because none of the animals and birds that God had created were found to be suitable .. as a "help meet" for Adam).

All of your reasoning (in the OP) sounds like it comes straight from an online, atheist, anti-Biblical/anti-Christian, "playbook" (if you will). I can certainly understand why an atheist, who is determined to prove Christianity wrong, might use these arguments (and/or others like them), but you claim to be a "non-denom" Christian. Perhaps learning and taking the Christian perspective on the Creation (on Gen 1-3) into account next time would be a good thing to consider doing too, yes?

--David
 
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prodromos

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Science tells us that all life on earth ultimately exists because of energy from the sun.
Genesis tells us that all life was sustained by God. As all plants were created without the sun's energy to sustain them.
 
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Orthodoxjay1

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Science tells us that all life on earth ultimately exists because of energy from the sun.
Genesis tells us that all life was sustained by God. As all plants were created without the sun's energy to sustain them.
So God is the source of life:oldthumbsup:
 
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St_Worm2

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Genesis 1:1-2:3 refers to God as “YHWH,” whereas Genesis 2:4 onwards refers to Him as “Adonai” or “Lord.” Moreover, in Genesis 1:1-2:3, God created everything out of nothing, whereas Genesis 2:4 onwards has God with anthropomorphic characteristics and has Him form everything out of something that already exists.
Hello again TheLostCoin, I forgot to finish this the other day. The word "God" is always translated from the Hebrew word אֱלֹהִים Elohiym], ~not~ from יְהוִה [Yâhovah/YHWH] in Gen 1-2:3 (and Gen 2:4-3:23 uses the combination, "Lord God"/"Elohiym YHWH" consistently).

Genesis 4
is the first time the Bible uses YHWH alone (....I have gotten a manchild with the help of the "Lord" .. Genesis 4:1). You continue:
Okay, but the question is this - if how literally we take Genesis is open up to interpretation, why should we believe Adam and Eve even interacted with a Snake at all? That there was a Garden? In a 7 Day Creation? That there was a literal Adam and Eve? That there were Dinosaurs with Adam and Eve?
You make an excellent point :preach: Understanding the early Chapters of Genesis as an allegory or a myth has been a stumbling block for many in being able to accept what the Bible has to say as true (in general), and/or for coming to know and believe in Jesus as their Lord and Savior .. including my senior pastor and his formerly, atheist family. However, once they saw that the Creation narrative could indeed be true as written, they were able to begin to consider that the rest of the Bible may be true as well :oldthumbsup::oldthumbsup:

--David
p.s. - one of the many things that helps me believe that the earliest Chapters of Genesis are true as written is the fact the both the Lord and His Apostles confirmed the OT Creation narrative in the Gospels and the Epistles. For instance:

Matthew 19
4 Jesus answered and said, “Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE,
5 and said, ‘FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH’?
6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.”

Revelation 12
7 There was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war,
8 and they were not strong enough, and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.
.
 
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For what it's worth - a minor point.

The moon has no light of its own, but if you live in a place far from city lights, you quickly realize that the light from the moon plays a big part in nighttime visibility. A full moon can illuminate almost like a dusky daylight and one can see clearly. A night without much moon can be very dark. So it can seem to be a light of its own for practical purposes, though it is only a reflection.

And I've been meaning to reread, especially taking into account the Septuagint, and see if my old impression was correct. But I thought that Gen 1 was an account of creation in general. And Gen 2 specifically talks about how man was created and placed in the Garden of Eden (which was NOT synonymous with the whole earth) ... so in that sense it seemed to make perfect sense to me. I need to reread it to verify that impression though.
 
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