SO THERE IS NO SCRIPTURE THAT TEACHES GOD'S 4TH COMMANDMENT IS ABOLISHED? THEN WHO SHOULD WE BELIEVE

ace of hearts said:

They're not large enough to be significantly visible.

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God's people have only ever been a remnant *ISAIAH 10:22; REVELATION 12:17

ace of hearts said:

The local SDA people won't even do business with me because I'm not part of their church. This is pure and hate.

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I am not sure of your circumstance but to say someone is not doing something because of pure hate seems to be a little judgmental which we are not to do *ROMANS 2:1-13 unless you can read the heart of another? No business or work is to be done on the Sabbath according to God's 4th commandment *EXODUS 20:8-11.

myst33 said:

You and Seven day adventists are mistaken, general church is right.

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Nope only God's WORD is right as shown in the within scripture and chapter Contect you have left out of your interpretation of the scriptures as shown already in this thread in these posts provided here linked and here linked that you have ignored and will not respond to. If you disagree with the scriptures that are shared here you are welcome to respond showing why. Only God's WORD is true brother and you have provided none. *ROMANS 3:4.

myst33 said:

He should not. Sin is doing what God does not want you to do - for example trying to put Christians under the Law.

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Partly you are correct in saying that sin is doing what God does not want you to do. Does God want you to lie, steal, murder, commit adultery, have other Gods, use God's name in vain? To help out here what do you think these scriptures means *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; JAMES 2:10-11? Sin is the breaking of any one of God's 10 commandments. This includes Gods' 4th commandment which is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *ROMANS 3:20.

myst33 said:

You are mistaken, R 14:5 is talking about days and Sabbath is a day.

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Oh nope I am not. Your confused here brother. Your reading into the scripture something that it is not saying.ROMANS 14 is talking about eating and not eating connected to days that men esteem over other days, not what days God esteems. The things that men esteem are an abomination in God's eyes.

LUKE 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God

There is no mention in all of ROMANS 14 of God's 4th commandment of any of God's 10.

If you disagree please post the scripture that says that ROMANS 14 is talking about Gods' 4th commandment? If you cannot your reading into the scripture something it is not talking about.

You have no scripture to show that ROMANS 14 is talking about God's 4th commandment do you.

myst33 said:

I never said that sunday is a holy day, you are still adding to my words as you are adding to God's words, bad habit in both cases.

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So there is no scripture that says Gods' 4th commandment has been ABOLISHED and there is no scripture that says we are to keep Sunday as a Holy day and we know JESUS says all those who knowingly follow the teachings and traditions of men are not following God *MATTHEW 15:3-9. Why are you not keeping God's 4th commandment that is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; JAMES 2;10-11?

myst33 said:

Sunday is historically/theologically important day for the Church, because: 1. Christ was ressurrected on Sunday. (J 20:1)
2. After the ressurrection, He appeared to apostles on Sunday. (J 20:19) 3. The second appearance to apostles was again on Sunday (J 20:26) 4. The descent of the Holy Spirit was on Sunday (Lv 23:16) 5. First public preaching was on Sunday (Acts 2:41) 6. First baptism was on Sunday (Acts 2:41) 7. The only mention about the Lord's Supper practice is on Sunday (Acts 20:6-7)

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Keep in mind here that God's people met everyday of the week breaking bread together after the death and resurrection of JESUS *ACTS 2:46-47. Not one of the scriptures you have provided state that God's 4th commandment is not abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day. Historically God's Sabbath has been kept all through time since the beginning of creation, to JESUS and the APOSTLES to after the death of JESUS all through time unbroken to this very present day. In fact Paul kept the SABBATH with both JEWS and Gentile believers.

ACTS 13:14-15; 42-44
14, And when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down.
15, And after the reading of the law and the prophets the rulers of the synagogue sent unto them, saying, You men and brethren, if you have any word of exhortation for the people, say on.

42, And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath. <Why wait till the next Sabbath?>
43, Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
44, And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

ACTS 16:13
13, And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a riverside, where prayer was accustomed to be made; and we sat down, and spoke unto the women who met there.

ACTS 17:1-2
1, Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a synagogue of the Jews:
2, And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

ACTS 18:4
4, And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.
5, And when Silas and Timothy were come from Macedonia, Paul was pressed in the word, and testified to the Jews that Jesus was the Christ.

If God's 4th commandment has now been ABOLISHED and we are not commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day and Historically God's people have always kept the Sabbath from Creation unbroken to this very present day why should we not keep God's 4th commandment Sabbath which is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken? Also, if God's people all through time kept God's 4th commandment as well as the other ten because they loved God, and JESUS and the APOSTLES all kept the Sabbath and are our examples that we should follow in God's WORD then why would we not follow them who follow God's WORD if we are God's people?

God bless.

ace of hearts said:

James doesn't mention works of the law as proof of salvation. James however does talk about sin and violation of the law to show the law isn't kept by the people being addressed.

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Sure he does *JAMES 2:10-11; JAMES 2:18-20; JAMES 2:26

ace of hearts said:

Animal sacrifice was part of the sabbath activity making it ceremonial according to your post. Why was the sabbath celebrated according to Ex 20 and Deut 5? Why the sabbath? Ex 31:13

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Animal sacrifices were an EVERY DAY event and also done twice on the Sabbath under the old Covenant. These animal sacrifices and sin offerings were a part of the SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK *EXODUS 24:7 of the OLD COVENANT that pointed to JESUS and God's plan of salvation in the NEW COVENANT *HEBREWS 10:1-19. God's Sabbath is a memorial of Creation and a sign that God's people worship the only true God of creation *GENESIS 2:1-3; EXODUS 20:8-11; EXODUS 31:13. While MARK 2:27 shows that JESUS made the SABBATH for all mankind and He is the LORD of SABBATH (creator) *MARK 2:28 and commands his people to keep it as a Holy day which is shown in *EXODUS 20:8-11 as God's 4th commandment which is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *EXODUS 20:1-17; ROMANS 3:20.

Hope this helps.

ace of hearts said:

No it doesn't.

5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.

This clearly says they came together for the purpose stated in verse 5. Your position is strictly verse 1 ignoring verse 5. They didn't re4quire the keeping of the law or circumcision in -

19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

22 Then pleased it the apostles and elders with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas and Silas, chief men among the brethren:

23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia.

24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

It isn't us that disagree with God's Word.No it isn't. This is promoted by you , not the Scripture.

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Not at all your only repeating yourself without addressing any any of the scriptures in the linked post provided to you that disagrees with you. If you disagree your welcome to address the linked post that goes through ACTS 15 scripture by scripture showing your error of interpretation. ACTS 15 was disucssing the question being asked which was is CIRCUMCISION a requirement of salvation *ACTS 15:1-2? CIRCUMCISION is not one of God's 10 commandments. It is a part of the SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the law *EXODUS 24:7. The interpretation of ACTS 15 that it is a reference to God's 10 commandments has already been addressed earlier scripture by scripture and shown to be a false teaching in post # 160 linked click me. Maybe you would like to address this post if you disagree? Ignoring Gods WORD does not make it disappear.

Hope this helps.

ace of hearts said:

My guess is you claim to that remnant and there are no others..

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God's WORD is very clear as to who His remnant are. Please see 1 JOHN 3:3-10; 1 JOHN 2:3-4; REVELATION 12:17; REVELATION 14:12; REVELATION 22:14.

ace of hearts said:

I had a long time on going exchange with the individual I speak of. The person had a health change and had to sell out. They wouldn't sell to me. My money is just as green as the next person's. Say what you want. I'm ace of hearts for a reason. People I've associated with have commented on this gift God gave me with gladness and surprise.

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What gift did God give you? I do not know the reason for your circumstance or the person you are commenting on so I cannot comment. That is between you and them and you and God.

ace of hearts said:

I don't think you really believe that last sentence.

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Your partly correct; it seems you do not know what I believe.

ace of hearts said:

My point is animal sacrifice was part of the sabbath and even double. Your point is only part of the sabbath was ceremonial. Tha't not quite correct when the words after the word wherefore or therefore are considered. Both are remembrances (celebrations) and for cause. That makes the sabbath ceremonial. Ex 20 and Deut 5

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Your point is a mute point as animal sacrifices were every day of the week in the OLD COVENANT. They point to JESUS in the NEW COVENANT. God's 4th commandment is a memorial of creation not a ceremonial law as there was no ceremonies when the Sabbath was created.

ace of hearts said:

No. Verse 11 says if you're guilty of those things you're a transgressor of the law. Neither 10 or 11 say anything about works of the law unless you want to say being a transgressor of the law s works of the law. But you know what? In my understanding of the human mind, the law actually promotes sin. Mind games have been played on all my life. These days are no different. Things can become interesting and fun when one understands how the mind works. I love messing with salesman's minds for entertainment. Verses 18-20 have nothing to do with the law. I note you leave out verses 12-17 where James talks about works that prove salvation. That's most likely because they are part of the law. Verse 26 has nothing to do with the law.

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Well that is not true. It's easier if we just lay the scriptures out and add a little more context. To be honest you the first person I have ever come across that thinks James is not talking about faith and works.

JAMES 2:8-11
[8], Howbeit if ye fulfil the royal law, according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do well:
[9], but if ye have respect of persons, ye commit sin, being convicted by the law as transgressors.
[10, For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is become guilty of all.
[11], For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou dost not commit adultery, but killest, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

NOTE: James is taking about our duty of love to our fellow man as expressed through OBEDIENCE to God's LAW. These some thoughts are expressed through the writings of PAUL in

ROMANS 13:8-10
[8], Owe no man anything, save to love one another: for he that loveth his neighbor hath fulfilled the law.
[9], For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not covet, and if there be any other commandment, it is summed up in this word, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
[10], Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: love therefore is the fulfilment of the law.

Continuing in JAMES..

JAMES 2:14-17
[14], What does it profit, my brothers, though a man say he has faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
[15], If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
[16], And one of you say to them, Depart in peace, be you warmed and filled; notwithstanding you give them not those things which are needful to the body; what does it profit?
[17], Even so faith, if it has not works, is dead, being alone.

NOTE: JAMES giving the example here of faith with no works is not saving faith and that faith requires action to be saving faith. The example of someone without food and clothing is given.

JAMES 2:18-20; 26
[18], Yes, a man may say, You have faith, and I have works: show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
[19], You believe that there is one God; you do well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
[20], But will you know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

NOTE: James is stating if your faith has no action it is dead and the faith of devils

[26], For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Yep seems to me that we are talking faith that has works.

Hope this helps

ace of hearts said:

I addressed your Acts 15 points. There's no need of me also repeating your stuff from post 160.

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Nope. No you did not you ignored it and simply repeated yourself. Please your welcome to have a go though. You can find it in post # 160 linked click me.