Evening (Sunset) and Morning (Sunrise) = 1 Day

miknik5 · Mar 23, 2019

YHWH_will_uplift said:
God is Light sister: therefore the Light (God) came before the darkness. I am not sure why this is so difficult to understand...when you wake up you know it is morning when the light first comes out. And before you go to bed and the light is fading you know it is evening...and when you wake up to see the light first coming out again...........it is the beginning of the next day....

No...the day simply began once God created the light....

Please answer this question for me:

Has all mankind been transferred out of the (kingdom of) dark into the (kingdom of) light in THE SON?

Kaon · Mar 23, 2019

miknik5 said:
But time hasn’t been flowing before the earth came forth

Time began only after GOD began HIS work of creating

That is why I said the poster has a point IF we assume time was flowing since before the Heavens and the Earth. I have said a few times on this thread (and, even in the wall of text) thaat the definition of a day by the Most High God is when He separates light from darkness - in all its dimensional meanings (evil/good, dark/light, evening/morning.)

miknik5 · Mar 23, 2019

And if not. What matters more?
The expounding of temporal light?
Or the expounding of ETERNAL LIGHT?

miknik5 · Mar 23, 2019

Kaon said:
That is why I said the poster has a point IF we assume time was flowing since before the Heavens and the Earth. I have said a few times on this thread (and, even in the wall of text) thaat the definition of a day by the Most High God is when He separates light from darkness - in all its dimensional meanings (evil/good, dark/light, evening/morning.)

Thank you Sorry for not having read all your posts. I will read them.

Kaon · Mar 23, 2019

YHWH_will_uplift said:
Wait a minute...slow down there...you're jumping all over the place and, as a result mixing up time with eternity. Time is not forever for it consists of three parts:

1) Beginning
2) Middle
3) End

From this we may conclude that only forever = forever = eternity = infinite and time = temporal. "In the beginning[...]" proves that time was created and that before it was created only eternity existed; and, this also signals the beginning of time itself as well as the beginning of the first day of the week. And let's keep the allegorical interpretations parallel to the literal translations and, not mix them up us being the same: for when God made the world in the beginning: this parallels the time man and woman were in Eden; and, when darkness covered the earth and the face of the deep the earth was without form and void: this parallels death entering into the world after Adam and Eve sinned and were banished from Eden; and, when God called the light and separated it from the darkness: this parallels God sending Christ to free man from the darkness and to walk in the light, the separation represents the judgement and to keep oneself free from the darkness by not mixing with it.

Time is an illusion, which is why it is DEFINED as a separation of light from dark (day/age = yom). Time also does not have to be linear; it can be quadratic and hyperbolic.

This is why I gave the allusions to the Hebrew meaning for light and dark - as an answer to a question one may beg concerning how light can be separated when there is no sun or moon (for example). As I said, something happened before the light and dark were separated, and the first day/age (yom) was defined.

The Hebrew tells the entire story; it isn't just about a celestial workweek.

gadar perets · Mar 23, 2019

YHWH_will_uplift said:
No...how did you conclude that?

That is what you said, and that is what Moses said.

[QUOTE="YHWH_will_uplift]When God called the light that implied the beginning of the day which is the morning: and this is why Moses wrote, "[...]And the evening and the morning were the first day.[/QUOTE]

for the evening signified the end of the first day; and, the next morning signified the beginning of the second day.

Genesis 1:5 does not say evening signified the end of the first day. It says it was the first day. The same with morning. It was part of the first day, not the beginning of the second day.

Scripture is very clear on what the morning and evening are...twilight is the period where it is neither day nor night...the day does not include the twilight periods...when God created the light He called it Day: therefore when the light is out it is daytime...

"[...]And the evening and the morning WERE the first day.

gadar perets · Mar 23, 2019

miknik5 said:
And if not. What matters more?
The expounding of temporal light?
Or the expounding of ETERNAL LIGHT?

The latter matters more, but that does not mean the former doesn't matter. It matters greatly since YHWH's calendar is based on the heavenly lights. If you don't keep His Holy Days, then they don't matter to you, but they still matter to Him and those who obey Him by keeping His Holy Days.

YHWH_will_uplift · Mar 23, 2019

miknik5 said:
Please answer this question for me:

Has all mankind been transferred out of the (kingdom of) dark into the (kingdom of) light in THE SON?

Which came first Light (God) or darkness?

Kaon said:
Time is an illusion, which is why it is DEFINED as a separation of light from dark (day/age = yom). Time also does not have to be linear; it can be quadratic and hyperbolic.

This is why I gave the allusions to the Hebrew meaning for light and dark - as an answer to a question one may beg concerning how light can be separated when there is no sun or moon (for example). As I said, something happened before the light and dark were separated, and the first day/age (yom) was defined.

The Hebrew tells the entire story; it isn't just about a celestial workweek.

Why do you care about Hebrew if you can't clearly communicate in English? This thread is not about the creation week...it is about how God defines a day in the Bible.
Time is not an illusion as God would not give the prophets specific timing of events if it were simply an illusion...furthermore mankind has been using time since God created it in Genesis 1:1: "In the beginning[...]" implies that time was created and that before it only eternity existed.

gadar perets said:
That is what you said, and that is what Moses said.

[QUOTE="YHWH_will_uplift]When God called the light that implied the beginning of the day which is the morning: and this is why Moses wrote, "[...]And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Genesis 1:5 does not say evening signified the end of the first day. It says it was the first day. The same with morning. It was part of the first day, not the beginning of the second day.

"[...]And the evening and the morning WERE the first day.[/QUOTE]
Where in that quote of mine did I say that twilight is a part of the normal day? It is not there at all. Please go read my other responses to you carefully: you will see that I said that twilight is where it is neither day nor night. And please analyze the logic of Genesis 1:1-5 more carefully and compare it with what you see in nature: when you wake up and see the light coming out it is morning; when you are going to bed and the light is fading you know it is evening.......therefore when you wake up and see the light coming out again.........it is the beginning of the next day:

God calls the light....

Lights appearance = Morning

Moses writes....

[...]"And the evening and the morning were the first day."

After the light was called it was morning....when the day ended it was evening....the next morning is the beginning of the second day.

gadar perets · Mar 24, 2019

YHWH_will_uplift said:
Where in that quote of mine did I say that twilight is a part of the normal day? It is not there at all. Please go read my other responses to you carefully: you will see that I said that twilight is where it is neither day nor night. And please analyze the logic of Genesis 1:1-5 more carefully and compare it with what you see in nature: when you wake up and see the light coming out it is morning; when you are going to bed and the light is fading you know it is morning.......therefore when you wake up and see the light coming out again.........it is the beginning of the next day:

God calls the light....

Lights appearance = Morning

Moses writes....

[...]"And the evening and the morning were the first day."

After the light was called it was morning....when the day ended it was evening....the next morning is the beginning of the second day.

Brother, you are not making your point clear. Here, again, you say morning is part of the day.

"when you wake up and see the light coming out it is morning; when you are going to bed and the light is fading you know it is morning.......therefore when you wake up and see the light coming out again.........it is the beginning of the next day

Above, you say the day begins with the light of the morning. I see light before I see the sunrise. Therefore, you are saying the time before sunrise (morning twilight) is the beginning of day.

YHWH_will_uplift · Mar 24, 2019

gadar perets said:
Brother, you are not making your point clear. Here, again, you say morning is part of the day.

"when you wake up and see the light coming out it is morning; when you are going to bed and the light is fading you know it is morning.......therefore when you wake up and see the light coming out again.........it is the beginning of the next day

Above, you say the day begins with the light of the morning. I see light before I see the sunrise. Therefore, you are saying the time before sunrise (morning twilight) is the beginning of day.

Lol! Brother don't confuse sunrise with the morning...twilight and morning are a little hard to distinguish between but, if you pay close attention you will notice the difference. Twilight will have this bluish black color to it where it seems like it is day time but, it also looks like night time as well: you will notice this right before the morning light comes which is orange in tint and the sky will be light blue. And not too long after this the sun will rise.
Morning is the beginning of the day therefore it is a part of the day which is light. And I noticed now that I had a typo where I said: "[...]when you are going to bed and see the light fading you know it is morning.", 'morning' should be 'evening' instead. I have corrected that error so it's clearer to read.

gadar perets · Mar 24, 2019

YHWH_will_uplift said:
Lol! Brother don't confuse sunrise with the morning...twilight and morning are a little hard to distinguish between but, if you pay close attention you will notice the difference. Twilight will have this bluish black color to it where it seems like it is day time but, it also looks like night time as well: you will notice this right before the morning light comes which is orange in tint and the sky will be light blue. And not too long after this the sun will rise.
Morning is the beginning of the day therefore it is a part of the day which is light. And I noticed now that I had a type where I said: "[...]when you are going to bed and see the light fading you know it is morning.", 'morning' should be 'evening' instead. I have corrected that error so it's clearer to read.

So you are saying morning starts prior to sunrise? Doesn't twilight end at sunrise?

YHWH_will_uplift · Mar 24, 2019

gadar perets said:
So you are saying morning starts prior to sunrise? Doesn't twilight end at sunrise?

Yes brother I am saying that morning starts prior to sunrise. Twilight ends once morning begins. To prove this we may simply read Genesis 1:1-13 where the Sun, Moon and stars were not created therefore there was no sunrise or sunset; and, it was not until Genesis 1:14-19 that the luminaries were created:

Day 01|Night 01|Day 02|Night 02|Day 03|Night 03|Day 04
M___E[T]______[T]M__E[T]______[T]M__E[T]______[T]M, SR

Legend Key:
M = Morning
E = Evening
[T] = Twilight
SR = Sunrise

The above proves that sunrise follows after the morning light.

gadar perets · Mar 24, 2019

YHWH_will_uplift said:
Yes brother I am saying that morning starts prior to sunrise. Twilight ends once morning begins. To prove this we may simply read Genesis 1:1-13 where the Sun, Moon and stars were not created therefore there was no sunrise or sunset; and, it was not until Genesis 1:14-19 that the luminaries were created:

Day 01|Night 01|Day 02|Night 02|Day 03|Night 03|Day 04
M___E[T]______[T]M__E[T]______[T]M__E[T]______[T]M, SR

Legend Key:
M = Morning
E = Evening
[T] = Twilight
SR = Sunrise

The above proves that sunrise follows after the morning light.

If morning starts before sunrise, does the day end when evening ends? If so, what signals the end of a day?

YHWH_will_uplift · Mar 24, 2019

gadar perets said:
If morning starts before sunrise, does the day end when evening ends? If so, what signals the end of a day?

The day begins with the morning and is followed by sunrise, therefore the day ends with evening and is followed by sunset:

[Twilight]
Beginning of the 01st Day: Morning, Sunrise,
Middle of the 01st Day: Noon,
End of the 01st Day: Evening, Sunset
[Twilight]
Beginning of the 01st Night: 1st Hour (1st Zodiac Sign)
Middle of the 01st Night: 6th Hour (6th Zodiac Sign)
End of the 01st Night: 12th Hour (12th Zodiac Sign)
[Twilight]
Beginning of the 02nd Day: Morning, Sunrise,
Middle of the 02nd Day: Noon,
End of the 02nd Day: Evening, Sunset
[Twilight]
Beginning of the 02nd Night: 1st Hour (1st Zodiac Sign)
Middle of the 02nd Night: 6th Hour (6th Zodiac Sign)
End of the 02nd Night: 12th Hour (12th Zodiac Sign)
[Twilight]
Beginning of the 03rd Day: Morning, Sunrise,
Middle of the 03rd Day: Noon,
End of the 03rd Day: Evening, Sunset
[Twilight]
Beginning of the 03rd Night: 1st Hour (1st Zodiac Sign)
Middle of the 03rd Night: 6th Hour (6th Zodiac Sign)
End of the 03rd Night: 12th Hour (12th Zodiac Sign)
[Twilight]
Beginning of the 04th Day: Morning, Sunrise,
Middle of the 04th Day: Noon,
End of the 04th Day: Evening, Sunset
[Twilight]
Beginning of the 04th Night: 1st Hour (1st Zodiac Sign)
Middle of the 04th Night: 6th Hour (6th Zodiac Sign)
End of the 04th Night: 12th Hour (12th Zodiac Sign)
[Twilight]
Beginning of the 05th Day: Morning, Sunrise,
Middle of the 05th Day: Noon,
End of the 05th Day: Evening, Sunset
[Twilight]
Beginning of the 05th Night: 1st Hour (1st Zodiac Sign)
Middle of the 05th Night: 6th Hour (6th Zodiac Sign)
End of the 05th Night: 12th Hour (12th Zodiac Sign)
[Twilight]
Beginning of the 06th Day: Morning, Sunrise,
Middle of the 06th Day: Noon,
End of the 06th Day: Evening, Sunset
[Twilight]
Beginning of the 06th Night: 1st Hour (1st Zodiac Sign)
Middle of the 06th Night: 6th Hour (6th Zodiac Sign)
End of the 06th Night: 12th Hour (12th Zodiac Sign)
[Twilight]
Beginning of the 07th Day: Morning, Sunrise,
Middle of the 07th Day: Noon,
End of the 07th Day: Evening, Sunset
[Twilight]
Beginning of the 07th Night: 1st Hour (1st Zodiac Sign)
Middle of the 07th Night: 6th Hour (6th Zodiac Sign)
End of the 07th Night: 12th Hour (12th Zodiac Sign)
[Twilight]

YHWH_will_uplift · Mar 24, 2019

To understand the general picture of Genesis 1:1-5 concerning the day and the night first remember that God is Light therefore:

Light (God) > Darkness > Light

Once we understand this then we may look at the particulars and see where twilight fits in...

Light (God) > Twilight > Darkness > Twilight > Light

So once God separated the Light from the Darkness He placed twilight between them as a boundary:

Light > Twilight > Darkness > Twilight > Light > Twilight

gadar perets · Mar 24, 2019

YHWH_will_uplift said:
The day begins with the morning and is followed by sunrise, therefore the day ends with evening and is followed by sunset:

You're killing me guy.

Here you say sunset follows evening. You previously wrote;

Scripture is very clear on what the morning and evening are...twilight is the period where it is neither day nor night...the day does not include the twilight periods

Isn't "evening" the twilight period after sunset? If not, when does "evening" begin?

YHWH_will_uplift · Mar 24, 2019

gadar perets said:
You're killing me guy.

Here you say sunset follows evening. You previously wrote;

Scripture is very clear on what the morning and evening are...twilight is the period where it is neither day nor night...the day does not include the twilight periods

Isn't "evening" the twilight period after sunset? If not, when does "evening" begin?

I don't understand why you're so, confused........evening and morning are not twilight! I know we had some lengthy conversations in the past and I went over the basics of a day is defined in the Bible but, I feel that I am laying down the foundation again...

Light = Morning and Evening = Day
Twilight = Neither Day nor Night
Darkness = Night

In nature the twilight before the morning will have a bluish black hue where it looks like daytime but, it also looks like it is night time.
In nature the morning after the twilight will have a yellow, orange, and red hue but, the sun has not yet risen.
In nature sunrise is when you see the top disc of the sun above the horizon.
In nature noon is when you see the Sun in the middle of the sky (i.e. 90 Degrees).
In nature evening is when you see the sky with a shift from orange to violet but, the sun has not yet set.
In nature sunset is when you see the Sun setting below the horizon.
In nature the twilight after the evening is when the Sun has disappeared below the horizon but, it feels like daytime and, it also feels like night time.

Do not ask any questions about twilight unless you carefully reread our posts with each other concerning this subject...I have clearly laid the information for you many times. I even laid out a chart to demonstrate to you what I have been talking about... TWILIGHT = TWILIGHT IT DOES NOT EQUAL ANYTHING ELSE

gadar perets · Mar 24, 2019

YHWH_will_uplift said:
evening and morning are not twilight!

Got it.

In nature the morning after the twilight will have a yellow, orange, and red hue but, the sun has not yet risen.

In nature evening is when you see the sky with a shift from orange to violet but, the sun has not yet set.

By the above two quotes, I conclude that you believe morning and evening are very short periods of time with morning ending at sunrise and evening ending at sunset. Is that correct?

BTW, if the boundaries of a day are sunrise and sunset, I don't understand why you morning starting before sunrise. Nor do I understand why twilight starts at sunset, but twilight does not end at sunrise.

Kaon · Mar 24, 2019

YHWH_will_uplift said:
Which came first Light (God) or darkness?

The Word of God, and the Most High God.

Before the first day was defined by separating light from darkness, everything created existed. The definition of a day is an evening (first), and then a morning.

Why do you care about Hebrew if you can't clearly communicate in English?

Because the Hebrews... were Hebrew - and their original language is closest to modern Hebrew of today. Also, English is a poor representation of translated thought. It does not translate directly to convey original meaning. So, it is important to look at the original languages before injecting modern and post-modern analysis.

This thread is not about the creation week...it is about how God defines a day in the Bible.

It is about both, or it should be. You can't have a week without a day - otherwise it is just periods of time. The first day is defined in Genesis 1:5.

Time is not an illusion as God would not give the prophets specific timing of events if it were simply an illusion...furthermore mankind has been using time since God created it in Genesis 1:1: "In the beginning[...]" implies that time was created and that before it only eternity existed.

Time is both philosophically, and mathematically arbitrary. A second is defined as 9 billion hyperfine transitions in a cesium atom. Time as humans know it is ridiculously flawed, and does not only behave linearly. Prophecy should be proof of this, as well as our promises.

The Most High God created a way to measure displacement between events, as that is what real time is - a change in events. This goes right back to the reason it was forever before evil befell the earth and made it dark.

Genesis 1:5 does not say evening signified the end of the first day. It says it was the first day. The same with morning. It was part of the first day, not the beginning of the second day.

The evening is the first part of the day.

The Morning is the second part of the day.

Evening-Evening = 1 full day.

"[...]And the evening and the morning WERE the first day.

Click to expand...

Where in that quote of mine did I say that twilight is a part of the normal day? It is not there at all. Please go read my other responses to you carefully: you will see that I said that twilight is where it is neither day nor night. And please analyze the logic of Genesis 1:1-5 more carefully and compare it with what you see in nature: when you wake up and see the light coming out it is morning; when you are going to bed and the light is fading you know it is evening.......therefore when you wake up and see the light coming out again.........it is the beginning of the next day:

God calls the light....

Lights appearance = Morning

Moses writes....

[...]"And the evening and the morning were the first day."

After the light was called it was morning....when the day ended it was evening....the next morning is the beginning of the second day.

I never said anything about twilight, but it seems you are confusing when the first part of the day begins: it begins at EVENING (or, the dark).

YHWH_will_uplift · Mar 24, 2019

gadar perets said:
Got it.

By the above two quotes, I conclude that you believe morning and evening are very short periods of time with morning ending at sunrise and evening ending at sunset. Is that correct?

BTW, if the boundaries of a day are sunrise and sunset, I don't understand why you morning starting before sunrise. Nor do I understand why twilight starts at sunset, but twilight does not end at sunrise.

Okay where did you read me saying that sunrise and sunset are the boundaries of the day? I simply explained that morning comes before sunrise just as evening comes before sunset.
Sigh...as for twilight...if you looked at my diagram you would see that it ends when morning begins; and twilight begins after sunset...

Evening (Sunset) and Morning (Sunrise) = 1 Day

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