If Jesus took the punishment for all sinners, why doesn't he go to Hell?

7bjoern7 said:

I've read quite often the new Testament. According to my translation, everyone without Jesus is going to the Lake of Fire to be tormented in eternity. But i think i stated it in my first post, that i start to mistrust the bible, like not entirely, but i think that a very small percentage might be falsified by satan. And that could result like in a mathematical function. It could be very long, and good and right, but if there is a single signedness error the function could go in the negative instead of the positive. The devil is in the detail.

And in any german translation, as iam german, you don't find the term "lucifer". But instead you find the morning star. Who else is described as the morning star? Jesus calls himself morningstar. Is Jesus Lucifer? There is a whole lot of deception out there, that's why i don't want to blindly trust. There is a german bible with a hidden reversed pentagram on it's front cover. If satan can infiltrate one translation, can he also infiltrate others? Possibly. That's why i wrote: the early disciples didn't have a new testament, but they had the holy spirit to guide them. And I pray to be led in all truth and more and more lies are revealed to my mind....

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Translations can be inaccurate. This is true. Although I'm not inclined to think all the translators made these errors deliberately. Although I will concede to the fact that there are translations that are purposefully misleading.

So, I'll show you how I study the Bible.

First look at the entire passage, because Isaiah 14:4 actually answers the question for you. It says: ".... take up this proverb against the king of Babylon..."

So what this tells us is "the king of Babylon" is equated to "Lucifer".

Now you are correct that "Lucifer" is only used one time in many English translations. And it comes from a Hebrew word that is translated as:
"praise" 117X
"glory" 14X
"boast" 10X
"mad" 8X
"shine" 3X
"foolish" 3X
"fools" 2X
"commend" 2X
"rage" 2X
"celebrate" 1X
"give" 1X
"marriage" 1X
"renowned" 1X

Now if we just look at these words; we get kind of an idea. Now we could go and look up all these words to see what context they are used in. (And if you really want to be through about it - than yeah - you can do that.) From the surface though; it looks like something that "shines forth" either via it's intrinsic value; or it "shines forth" because it thinks it's important.

Now go back and look at the king of Babylon. Nebuchadnezzar was struck down with madness because he'd become proud. In the end he says: God, I now know You alone are God.

Now "morning star" is only used 3 places in the Bible
Job 38:7
Revelation 2:28
Revelation 22:16

Yet "son of the morning" is not the same as "morning star". And no where is Nebuchadnezzar equated to Jesus. Babylon though is equated to Satan in Revelation 13. "Babylon the mother of harlots" is riding a "beast". The beast is a system that gets its power from Satan. It's an A=B, B=C, So A=C. (Lucifer = Babylon), (Babylon = Satan), (Lucifer = Satan) Historically speaking though, the passage is addressing Nebuchadnezzar.

Also historically speaking; what adds itself unto the beast system comes out of the Babylonian captivity. The Mishnah, the Talmud, Rabbinic Judaism all have their penned historical roots in Babylon.

Now "tradition" will tell you that the Mishnah goes back to Moses; yet we have no historical or Biblical evidence of that. The Mishnah is (allegedly) the "oral law". It is said to go back to Moses and although it is possible there were oral traditions carried over from the days of Moses, the origin of "oral tradition" can only be verified from the point that it was written down. (Thus it is no longer "oral tradition", it is written tradition - and thus "pin down(able)")

So compare Isaiah 14 to Revelation 14 and Revelation 16-18. Babylon the mother of harlots is the city of Jerusalem. We know this from passages in Revelation.

Now all of this being said; this gives you a good indication as to why you need to pay attention to details. When ever I study something; I never assume that I understand what it means until I've researched it. And I research the Bible by using the Bible. If you want to know what a passage in the Bible means; you will find the answer somewhere else in the Bible. The Bible is very cleverly written but you have to pay attention to the details and don't assume two things mean the same thing (Such as "son of the morning" and "morning star".)

Now I'm sure there are German / Hebrew & German / Greek concordances. So you can do this - looking at it all in German; which doing it that way, will probably make it make more sense to you. Because after all; looking at the book of Acts, the Holy Spirit used the apostles to speak to the people in their native languages.

The Righterzpen said:

Jesus is the "lamb slain from the foundations of the world" (Revelation 13:8) If there was no world yet; how is the lamb slain?

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That means that the sacrifice of our Lord on the cross was not limited to our time frame; it also happened in eternity where our time reference is meaningless.

Natsumi Lam said:

You are not even quoting the verse correctly.

8 And all that dwell on the earth shall worship him, [every one] whose name hath not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb that hath been slain.

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Actually, it was quoted correctly - depending on the translation.

Here it is in a few:
ISV
All those who had become settled down and at home, living on the earth, will worship it, everyone whose name had not been written in the Book of Life belonging to the lamb that had been slaughtered since the foundation of the world.

PHILLIPS
So it poured out blasphemies against God, blaspheming his name and his dwelling place and those who live in Heaven. Moreover, it was permitted to make war upon the saints and to conquer them; the authority given to it extended over every tribe and people and language and nation. All the inhabitants of the earth will worship it—all those whose names have not been written in the book of life which belongs to the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

JUB
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship it, whose names are not written in the book of the life of the Lamb that was slain from the foundation of the world.

KJV
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

AKJV
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

NASB
All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain.

NCV
And all who live on earth will worship the beast—all the people since the beginning of the world whose names are not written in the Lamb’s book of life. The Lamb is the One who was killed.

NET
and all those who live on the earth will worship the beast, everyone whose name has not been written since the foundation of the world in the book of life belonging to the Lamb who was killed.

NIRV
Many people who live on the earth will worship the beast. They are the ones whose names are not written in the Lamb’s book of life. The Lamb is the one whose death was planned before the world was created.

NIV
All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the Lamb’s book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world.

NIVUK
All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast – all whose names have not been written in the Lamb’s book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world.

NKJV
All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Dave-W said:

That means that the sacrifice of our Lord on the cross was not limited to our time frame; it also happened in eternity where our time reference is meaningless.

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The lengths that people will go to, to twist the word to fit their doctrines, is simply staggering!

Dave-W said:

That means that the sacrifice of our Lord on the cross was not limited to our time frame; it also happened in eternity where our time reference is meaningless.

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Everything God does is numerical and time centered. It is not meaningless to Him . From a 7 day week of creation to the new earth---time will be kept. The new earth will have no need us of the for light---for Jesus shines brighter than the sun---however, it does not say that there will not be one.


Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

mmksparbud said:

Everything God does is numerical and time centered. It is not meaningless to Him .

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Everything He does Here and on this side of creation. But we are talking BEFORE creation, when time did not even exist.

“Before the foundation of the world.”

Dave-W said:

Everything He does Here and on this side of creation. But we are talking BEFORE creation, when time did not even exist.

“Before the foundation of the world.”

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That is still an assumption for which there really is no verification of. He may have different time frames for different worlds. All creation shows order---even out as far as we can look. Other galaxies still show order.

7bjoern7 said:

Hi.

This is a serious question. Im questioning everything at the moment, maybe its just a crisis, maybe the Holy Spirit is guiding me, because i pray to be led in all truth and to see all lies...

If Jesus took my punishment - hell for eternity - why then got he resurrected to sit on the throne? Even tho he was without sin... if he takes my punishment it must be the same punishment or not?

The old testament says that the punishment for sin is death. "If you eat from the tree of knowledge, you must die", not "you must go to hell".

I mean... Jesus took a lot of damage and pain for us. But what is that compared for one person being burned alive for eternity?

Please don't answer to just trust that all this is just rightous, and Iam too human to comprehend it. There is too much deception going on and Im no longer willing to accept anything blindly.

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Please concentrate and consider the “TREE OF LIFE” which was also in the garden.

devin553344 said:

What makes you think Jesus didn't go to the lake of fire for us liars, etc? Matthew 12:40

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Because that place won’t be redeemed

devin553344 said:

And what about the heart of the earth for 3 days doesn't sound like a lake fire?

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That’s hell. A temporary holding place for the dead outside of Christ That place will give up its dead at the end of all things and will rise and be judged. Some will rise to life, some to condemnation. Read John 5 and follow it with revelation 20

Remember..The rest of the dead (those who died and did not have a part in the first resurrection...that is, they died outside of Christ, not having believed the Gospel in this life) did not rise again until after the 1000 year reign.

Oscarr said:

wherever He went, it was to the place of the unbelieving dead.

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No it wasn’t. These were those who died prior to Christ’s physical coming God went back to preach the Gospel by the SPIRIT to those spirits who were in captivity

The doors were opened, and He led captivity in HIS train

But that was a one time event


It’s why the Gospel is preached now to the living. It’s why today is the day of salvation.

ewq1938 said:

No, it doesn't sound like that at all.



It is common knowledge that "the heart of the Earth" was a reference to the tomb his body would lay in for the 3 days and nights. No scholar/biblical teacher thinks it's the molten core of the Earth or the lake of fire.

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His physical shell of His body laid in the heart of the earth. His Spirit went elsewhere

mmksparbud said:

Please state the verse that says the penalty for sin is spiritual death. The soul that sinneth it shall die. It doesn't say it say die spiritually. God did not tell Adam and Eve if they ate of the tree they would die spiritually, it says they would die.
Jesus died. The penalty for sin is not eternal burning, it is death--not eternal dying.

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Jesus laid down the life...
Temporarily. But by The Spirit, He went three days to preach to those held in captivity.

Afterwards, He raised up His body (by His Spirit) and was seen by many

mmksparbud said:

After the first death---there will be a judgement and the final penalty. We all are resurrected from the first death. Then the sinners are destroyed in the lake of fire---there will be no more sin, no more tears, no more pain---there will be no more sinners. As long as someone is burning there is pain and tears and a sinner.

Rev_2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
Rev_20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Rev_20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev_21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

It says 2nd death--not second eternal life burning.

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It also says blessed and holy are those who have a part in the first resurrection

Can you explain?

mmksparbud said:

Gen_2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Gen_6:17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.
Gen_7:15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.
Gen_7:22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.

Adam became a living soul when God breathed into him. It is the same breath that God gave to all living things. It is what spirit means--breath of life. It is what goes back to God who gave it, it is what Jesus gave back to God when He died.

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Adam (and all men) became a living soul. But through Christ (who again breathes on His disciples and is the pattern of Adam) we are made knew by HIS life giving spirit