Does Doctrine play any role in Salvation?

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Saint Steven

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Everything you said is a tons of interjection into Gods word to convolute the very simplicity of The Faith exhibited by Moses into something it isn't.
Moses?
"... The Faith exhibited by Moses..." ????

Maybe you meant Abraham? Moses is NOT the father of faith.
 
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Saint Steven

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One more thing...When Jesus told the their "Today you will be with me in paradise", it had nothing to do with Him going to a realm called "Sheol", but says exactly what it says. Have you forgotten that Jesus IS Yahweh in Human Flesh, even while still upon the Cross?
Jesus said he would be "three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."
But he was laid in an above ground tomb. So, where did he go?

Matthew 12:40
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Ephesians 4:8-10
This is why it says:
“When he ascended on high,
he took many captives
and gave gifts to his people.”
9 (What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions?
10 He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.)
 
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Saint Steven

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Short version: One doesn't have to know doctrine to be saved. But the doctrine that someone believes, and how they treat others who they disagree with, can be one of the indicator fruits that we are supposed to exhibit once we are saved. And, it's possible for someone to cross that line and be someone who Jesus said He never knew.
I agreed with your post up until the last sentence.
Are you saying we can lose our relationship with Jesus based on doctrinal disagreements with others?
 
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Saint Steven

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Maybe somebody already beat me to it, but the Bible says:

"Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son." (2 John 1:9).
A full seminary degree is required before salvation?
Better pick the right school. That could be an expensive mistake. Right?
 
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FreeGrace2

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Don't disagree but I think you are making a mountain out of a mole hill. Simply put he had saving faith because he recognized/believed in Jesus as Messiah/Savior.
That was my point. When someone adds "as best they could" muddies the waters.

He wasn't concerned about "doctrine" as he "believed as best he could" about Christ at the time of his dying.
He believed savingly. It wasn't about doctrine. It was about the Person and work of Christ.

If you read your NT, there are many who cry out to Jesus to "help them in their unbelief."
Well, there's one example. But, yes, most people do need help in their unbelief. btw, the one example of a father concerned about his son did have faith, but he was weak in his faith.

Formal doctrine comes later as a believer learns/matures in Christ.
Of course.
 
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FreeGrace2

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Except you don't do this. No where in Scripture is Hades called Paradise.
Oh, great defense. How about this one:
No where in Scripture is the word Trinity found.

Here's the facts. Jesus went to Hades after His death, to "preach to the spirits in prison". Jesus gave us a conversation in Hades between Abraham (in Paradise) and a rich man (in torments).

Therefore, both Paradise and torments are IN Hades.
 
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FreeGrace2

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FreeGrace2 said:
Soteriology is the doctrine of saving faith.
Soteriology is the doctrine of salvation.
To have salvation, you have to have saving faith.

I'm not sure there is any such thing as "saving faith".
Then I'm not sure you have salvation.

What kind, or how much faith do we need to be saved?
If you don't know, you do have a problem. You call yourself "Saint Steven" and identify as a "Christian" and you don't understand these things??

The Bible repeatedly says those who believe are saved. That was Paul's answer to the jailer who specifically asked what he MUST DO to be saved. Do you have a different idea about how to be saved?

When "faith" is used as a noun, it refers to the "body of information" as found in the Bible. When used as a verb, it refers to accepting as true what is found in the Bible.

So, saving faith is believing what the Bible says, specifically about Jesus Christ and salvation.

Saving faith, like all 'faith', requires 2 aspects.

1. object. In saving faith, the object is the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who died on a cross for your (personal) sins.

2. goal or purpose. In saving faith, the goal or purpose of putting your full trust (belief) in the Lord Jesus Christ is to receive the gift of eternal life and be saved.

If either of these 2 aspects is different than above, you do not have saving faith, and you are not saved.

Maybe you are claiming a salvation by works that includes doctrine that you approve of?
Maybe you are totally wrong. Actually, you ARE totally wrong.

I claim the same salvation as found in the Bible. Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who is Messiah, and who died on the cross for all of my sins, and gives me eternal life for believing in Him for it.

Do you agree or disagree with this statement?

Which means the judgment will examine everyone's doctrine to see if their Soteriology is approved? If not... flames.
Those who have NEVER believed are the ones who will be condemned.

John 3:18 - Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

2 Thess 2:12 - and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

Saving faith is believing in the Person and Work of the Lord Jesus Christ.
 
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Saint Steven

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You call yourself "Saint Steven" and identify as a "Christian" and you don't understand these things??
I understand just fine.
But I think I disagree with your take on it. That's all.
Does disagreeing with you revoke my salvation?
 
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Saint Steven

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The Bible repeatedly says those who believe are saved. That was Paul's answer to the jailer who specifically asked what he MUST DO to be saved. Do you have a different idea about how to be saved?
No. I believe that those who believe are saved.
But you seem to be insisting on a specific "formula" that must be followed or it doesn't work. That's what I am objecting to.
 
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FreeGrace2

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I understand just fine.
But I think I disagree with your take on it. That's all.
Does disagreeing with you revoke my salvation?
I laid out what saving faith is and means. You tell me.

btw, salvation cannot be revoked.

Rom 11:29 - for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable.

Eternal life is a gift of God.

Rom 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
 
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Saint Steven

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When "faith" is used as a noun, it refers to the "body of information" as found in the Bible.
And you hold a lost person responsible to know all that before they can be saved?
 
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So, saving faith is believing what the Bible says, specifically about Jesus Christ and salvation.

Saving faith, like all 'faith', requires 2 aspects.

1. object. In saving faith, the object is the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who died on a cross for your (personal) sins.

2. goal or purpose. In saving faith, the goal or purpose of putting your full trust (belief) in the Lord Jesus Christ is to receive the gift of eternal life and be saved.

If either of these 2 aspects is different than above, you do not have saving faith, and you are not saved.
I think this information should be used by the one leading someone to Christ. A lost individual wanting to deal with the conviction they feel needs to be led to Christ. They know nothing of doctrine typically.
 
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FreeGrace2

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No. I believe that those who believe are saved.
Why isn't that saving faith to you?

But you seem to be insisting on a specific "formula" that must be followed or it doesn't work. That's what I am objecting to.
Where did I present any "formula". I explained what saving faith requires. Which of the 2 aspects do you object to?
 
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Saint Steven

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Maybe you are totally wrong. Actually, you ARE totally wrong.

I claim the same salvation as found in the Bible. Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who is Messiah, and who died on the cross for all of my sins, and gives me eternal life for believing in Him for it.

Do you agree or disagree with this statement?
A lost person cannot articulate this to meet your approval.
You have completely lost touch with the state of the lost.
They will get their doctrine ironed out later.
Initially they need to be led by the hand.
 
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FreeGrace2

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FreeGrace2 said:
When "faith" is used as a noun, it refers to the "body of information" as found in the Bible.
And you hold a lost person responsible to know all that before they can be saved?
No. That would be ridiculous. I hold every lost person responsible for understanding that God has revealed Himself in creation (Rom 1:19,20) and has no excuse for not being thankful to Him. And by such realization, I hold them responsible for seeking Him, per Acts 17:27.

I also hold them responsible for accepting the gospel, as Titus 2:11 says.
 
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Saint Steven

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Those who have NEVER believed are the ones who will be condemned.

John 3:18 - Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

2 Thess 2:12 - and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

Saving faith is believing in the Person and Work of the Lord Jesus Christ.
A lost person does not fully grasp any of this.
 
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