When does Lucifer ascend to heaven?

Like I have said often, it is spiritually discerned.

I would say the problem often arises when Christians constantly, regardless of context, attempt to look at things very literally without regard to the rest of the bible or comparing the spiritual with the spiritual. It's human nature, but the human nature is (by nature) carnal, not spiritual. And many professing Christians grieve the Spirit in their worldly inclinations.

1st Corinthians 2:11-14

• "For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
• Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
• Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
• But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

Without the Spirit of God we know things in man's wisdom, but not the truth in the wisdom of Christ. With the Spirit of God we come to realize that we actually don't know half of the things we "thought" we knew. All glory to God for the little we do know.

tranquil said:

Clearly he ascended to heaven because he is thrown out of heaven in Revelation 12:7-8

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No - what is clear is that he will be thrown out of Heaven. If he was originally created in Heaven and lived there until his fall - it does not logically follow that there was ever a time when he ascended to Heaven - even though he apparently wanted to ascend there after his fall.

Please note....

For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven,

The Bible did not say lucifer would ascend into heaven. It was revealing his thoughts and imaginations which will never materialize.

He blew his chance a long, long time ago, and that decision on his part is forever.

tranquil said:

When does Lucifer ascend to heaven? Isaiah 14:10-20
As shown in Revelation.

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Who's Lucifer?

tranquil said:

Isa 14

12“How you are fallen from heaven,
O Day Star, son of Dawn!
How you are cut down to the ground,
you who laid the nations low!
13You said in your heart,
‘I will ascend to heaven;
above the stars of God
I will set my throne on high;
I will sit on the mount of assembly
in the far reaches of the north;c
14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.’
15But you are brought down to Sheol,
to the far reaches of the pit.
16Those who see you will stare at you
and ponder over you:
‘Is this the man who made the earth tremble,
who shook kingdoms,​

Rev 12

7Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon. And the dragon and his angels fought back, 8but he was defeated, and there was no longer any place for them in heaven. 9And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. 10And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, “Now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have come, for the accuser of our brothersb has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God.​

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The dragon attempted to storm heaven itself. Even in the OT the devil's pictured as being among God's sons, the angels, as they came for their ministry.

But his attack proved a failure; for Michael, the archangel, summoned heaven's hosts and gave battle so successfully that Satan was cast out of heaven with his host.

The devil isn't able to prevail against Christ. Our spiritual armor will overcome all the attacks Satan may launch. We fear not, they won't overpower us; Satan can harm us none; he’s judged, the deed's done.

tranquil said:

Don't bother. The text says that "Lucifer" is just the king of 'Babylon'.

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except the text doesn't say Lucifer at all. Lucifer is a Latin word, not Hebrew, not Greek and not English. the proper name "lucifer" be it for the king of Babylon or Satan is a misnomer that probably the KJV helped to propagate.

tranquil said:

When does (what is translated as) 'Lucifer' ascend to heaven? As shown in Revelation.

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Lucifer is not a word that appears in Revelation either from a translated word or from the Latin texts, where the word "Lucifer" originates from in Latin. There may be an obscure translation that does translate some passages in Revelation with Lucifer, which wouldn't surprise me, but I don't know of any.

In the Latin text the word appears 3 times: Job 11:17, Isa 14:12 and 2Pe 1:19, the latter referring to Christ. Of these verses only the Isaiah reference gets translated using Latin instead of translating it into English. There are also various fringe translations that favour 'Lucifer' in this verse but largely it's the KJV age/family of translations that do this however modern translations no longer translate it this way.

The KJV was favouring the Latin for what I assume was already a commonly used misnomer in the 16-17th century or earlier so it is a type of contextual word but done so irresponsibly as it is favouring interpretation over translation, even if the interpretation was widely accepted. This isn't an evil KJV thing either but more a part-of-its-times thing as other translations that predate the KJV such as the Coverdale Bible (1535), Matthew's Bible (1537), The Great Bible (1539), Bishops Bible (1568) and Geneva Bible (1560) all favour "Lucifer". The KJV is just the only lasting one out of that age so it gets the target.

I see no reason to think the subject of Isaiah 14 is anyone other than the King of Babel. Why? Because his is subject to going to sheol, and so he is a mortal man, not a spirit being. It's just that simple. That is more conclusive than running with the term "Lucifer."

tranquil said:

When does Lucifer ascend to heaven? Isaiah 14:10-20
As shown in Revelation.

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The First time the word "Lucifer" appeared in any Bible was in Jeromes' translation into Latin in the late fourth century. He translated "bright morning star" as Lucifer three times. The first of course is in Isaiah in reference to a Babylonian king with an immense ego while the other two times was in Revelation in reference to Jesus in a quite different context. To understand Isaiah 14:10-20 better it needs to be read in the context of Isaiah 13 and the earlier part of 14 where the prophet engages in a long rant against an egotistical and tyrranical king. The meaning is clear and it in no way refers to Satan or any other supernatural entity --- that is a later interpretation that I find quite incredulous.

Pleased to meet you.
Hope you guess my name.

tranquil said:

When does Lucifer ascend to heaven? Isaiah 14:10-20
As shown in Revelation.

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If you are talking about Satan, he actually goes to the abyss which is not in heaven. Lucifer is not Satan he is a fallen king. Need to read Isaiah more carefully to catch this.
Blessings

tranquil said:

When does Lucifer ascend to heaven? Isaiah 14:10-20
As shown in Revelation.

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Maybe it has already happened more than once / will happen again etc. :


And He (Jesus) said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven"
• Luke 10:18

tranquil said:

When does Lucifer ascend to heaven? Isaiah 14:10-20
As shown in Revelation.

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Never.

Satan and the wicked angels were cast out of heaven long ago.

Rev 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
(The first part of Revelation 12 is a history lesson which includes the fall of Satan, and the birth and death of Christ.)


2Pe_2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;


Jud_1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

.

rockytopva said:

Please note....

For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven,

The Bible did not say lucifer would ascend into heaven. It was revealing his thoughts and imaginations which will never materialize.

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Job 1:6-8 King James Version (KJV)
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.

7 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

8 And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

Where dd this meeting take place if not in Heaven?

Original Happy Camper said:

Where dd this meeting take place if not in Heaven?

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On earth...

God met with Moses and the Israelites during the Exodus.

.

Original Happy Camper said:

Job 1:6-8 King James Version (KJV)
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.

7 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

8 And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

Where dd this meeting take place if not in Heaven?

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And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. - Job 1:7

I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth. - Revelation 2:13

TribulationSigns said:

Like I have said often, it is spiritually discerned.

I would say the problem often arises when Christians constantly, regardless of context, attempt to look at things very literally without regard to the rest of the bible or comparing the spiritual with the spiritual. It's human nature, but the human nature is (by nature) carnal, not spiritual. And many professing Christians grieve the Spirit in their worldly inclinations.

1st Corinthians 2:11-14

• "For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
• Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
• Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
• But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

Without the Spirit of God we know things in man's wisdom, but not the truth in the wisdom of Christ. With the Spirit of God we come to realize that we actually don't know half of the things we "thought" we knew. All glory to God for the little we do know.

Click to expand...

People who use those verses is for the purpose of saying others are wrong and they are right, whenever disagreement arises in a discussion.

tranquil said:

When does Lucifer ascend to heaven? Isaiah 14:10-20
As shown in Revelation.

Click to expand...

It was/is Satan's desire, to ascend to the third heaven (from where he has been banned) and from there to be worshiped like God. Satan is currently in the second heaven, not the third heaven.

When the Antichrist, the King of Israel messiah mistake by the Jews, betrays them, he is - like Judas - called the son of perdition in 2Thessalonians2:3-4. Satan enters him to carry out the act (called the transgression of desolation in Daniel 8:12-13) to go into the temple (forthcoming) sit, claim to be God, revealing himself as the "man of sin".

It stirs God's anger and He has the revealed man of sin killed. This is in Ezekiel 28:1-10. And is how Satan having motivated the person, finds himself, at least in name, in hell in Isaiah 14 at the same time, as the revealed man of sin does in Isaiah 14.

It is important to note that it is the person's soul in hell, because his body, it indicates will not be buried. Isaiah 14:20. It is his soul, which it is said that will be metaphorically cast out of the grave in Isaiah 14:19*.

From this information, we can conclude that the person will be killed and be dead maybe three days or a week, and is in the viewing stage of the body in a open casket, when he sits up, miraculously appearing to have over come death.
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Satan never makes it back to the third heaven, to be worshiped there like God. What he does instead, on his way to his destruction, when he is cast down permanently to earth, in Revelation 12:7-9, from his high place in the second heaven, is to incarnate the image of the beast, the abomination of desolation, in order to seek his desire to be worshiped.
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* In Isaiah 14:19 the person ls likened as an abominable branch. Jesus was the righteous branch descended from Jesse, David's father, Isaiah 11. Which indicates the person will be a Jew, either descended from David, or one of the branches removed, or both - but at least a Jew for sure.