Status
Not open for further replies.

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,507
7,861
...
✟1,194,200.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
You can't discard that revelations from the Lord are experiences and not scripture.

I don't discount them. They were temporary and served a specific purpose in the building of the early church. They were also in line with God's Word, as well.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,507
7,861
...
✟1,194,200.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Apart from the road experience, that was a experience meeting Jesus like that that was no man, he also says:

"But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ"

also


2 Corinthians 12:1 1

"It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord."

1 Corinthians 11:23

For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: that the Lord Jesus, on the night He was betrayed, took bread,

Ephesians 3:3-4

How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

Romans 16:25

Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)

But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.

Ananias told Saul (Paul)...

full


(See Acts of the Apostles 22:16).

For Scripture cannot contradict itself.
There has to be a way of finding the best way to harmonize the whole of God's Word.
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,507
7,861
...
✟1,194,200.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Paul also says...

full


19 "Now therefore you are no more strangers and sojourners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone;" (Ephesians 2:19-20).

So if one is built upon the foundation of the apostles, that means that there are no more apostles today. The apostleship was a gift (According to Scripture).
 
Upvote 0

NBB

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 19, 2013
3,566
1,546
44
Uruguay
✟453,908.00
Country
Uruguay
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I don't discount them. They were temporary and served a specific purpose in the building of the early church. They were also in line with God's Word, as well.

I say you can't become a mature christian without experiencing things from God.
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,507
7,861
...
✟1,194,200.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I say you can't become a mature christian without experiencing things from God.

Nobody is discounting the working of God in our life altogether. Believers receive love, joy, peace, and other fruits of the Spirit. God can talk to us (not audibly or by a feeling) using His Word in unique ways.

But these are more subtle. They are not the kind of experiences held at certain Charismatic churches.
 
Upvote 0

JAL

Veteran
Site Supporter
Oct 16, 2004
10,777
928
Visit site
✟343,550.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
To all:

God abides by His Word. In the early church He did miracles to confirm the word (Mark 16:20) (Hebrews 2:3-4).
Correct. Unbelievers such as Muslims can benefit from miraculous confirmation of the Word today, to help them accept it. Haven't we been over this point a hundred times already?

Christ quotes Scripture as an authority:

In all Jesus' teachings He referred to the divine authority of the Old Testament (Matthew 5:17-18; Matthew 8:17; Matthew 12:40-42; Luke 4:18-21; Luke 10:25-28; Luke 15:29-31; Luke 17:32; Luke 24:25-45; John 5:39-47). He quoted the Old Testament 78 times, the Pentateuch alone 26 times. He quoted from Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Deuteronomy, Psalms, Proverbs, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Amos, Jonah, Micah, and Malachi. He referred to the Old Testament as “The Scriptures,” “the word of God,” and “the wisdom of God.”
Citing verses isn't proof of Sola Scriptura. At best it's proof that Scripture is true, which we all agree on.

Christ quoted Scripture for the same reasons that Paul did - strategic debate. If I already know that my audience:
(1) Accepts Scripture
(2) Holds to a particular interpretation of a passage.
Then I can extrapolate from there, exposing inconsistencies and/or oversights in their FINAL CONCLUSIONS. I can use their own Scriptures against them in a debate.

Using that same strategy (it's a good one), I cite Scripture on this forum. Does this strategic usage prove that I hold to Sola Scriptura? No! Neither, then, is such implied of Christ and Paul, when THEY cited Scripture strategically.

I've already shown Sola Scriptura to be a contradiction in terms. That argument stands unchallanged, unrefuted. Therefore you can't 'prove' Sola Scriptura by citing more scripture. Yet you continue.

Jesus defeated the devil by using Scripture.
You really want to chalk this up to Scripture? So if Jesus had been born before the canon, the devil would have defeated Him? If anything, what's clear from the passage is His unusual degree of insight when interpreting and applying those verses - you don't get such from exegesis. It's direct revelation from the Father.

This is confirmed by Ephesians 6 with how the Sword of the Spirit is the Word of God which is a part of putting on the amor of God so that one can stand against the wiles of the devil (Ephesians 6:11, 16). For the Living Word (Jesus) is like a two edged sword that divides asunder the soul and the spirit because He always speaks the words of God because He is God (Hebrews 4:12).
Those verses are referring to the divine Word, not the (powerless) written Word. You just keep repeating assertions already refuted.

So it was more than just feelings or an experience alone that Christ had or gave to others. Jesus came with power... yes... but He also was confirmed by the Word of God (the Scriptures).
Well duh. No one's denying the existence of the written Word. The fact remains, however, that feelings of certainty are a FINAL AUTHORITY - such as those provided by direct revelation - contrary to your notion of 'Sola Scriptura' (exegesis alone as final authority).
Without this sure Word, there is no foundation. For by feelings alone people can be deceived.
That's a laugh. So Moses had no written Word (no foundation?) when he WROTE the written Word. Well I guess we have to throw out the OT then, as Moses wrote based on feelings of certainty.

Let's do a quick sanity check:
(1) Moses wrote books based on feelings of certainty.
(2) Seminary professors write books based on exegesis.
Which set of books do YOU find to be more reliable? (Boy, that's a tough one!).

For it is written...

full


The full version of this verse:

"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?"
(Jeremiah 17:9).

It says the heart is deceitful above ALL THINGS.
This is why we need God's Word as a sure foundation in our walk of faith with God.
For when we stand before the Lord we will have to explain everything to Him in why we did what we did. There is nothing hid from the Lord that will not be revealed (See Luke 8:17).
You just don't get it. Precisely due to the heart's deceitfulness do we need a RELIABLE system - the same system of revelation that wrote the OT, the NT, and conducted prophetic ministry.

When I refer to feelings of certainty at 100%, I'm referring to a supernaturally induced state wherein it is impossible to doubt or questoin the message. Do you see the benefit here? No? Such a state supernaturally OVERRIDES and OVERPOWERS the deceitfulness of the heart.

You didn't realize that the heart was deceitful during exegesis? Time for a rude awakening. Do you realize that MOST of our doctrine for the last 2,000 years has trickled down from seminary professors who were PAID to instruct? People who, if they DARED to challenge mainstream theology, would have lost their jobs and felt at a loss as to how to put bread on the table? And pastors are in the same boat!

Let me be perfectly honest with you. If I were a seminary professor or a pastor, my fear of loss of income would DRAMATICALLY harden my heart. I would be VERY unteachable and inflexible. I could lie to myself - and to you - pretending that I'm of strong enough character to resist all corruption, but realistically I'm not that strong. And in my personal opinion, most people are not that strong.
 
Upvote 0

1stcenturylady

Spirit-filled follower of Christ
Site Supporter
Feb 13, 2017
11,189
4,193
76
Tennessee
✟431,122.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Republican
I never understood those who some reject a real physical 1,000 year reign of Christ. It clearly says there is one in Revelation. But that's another topic (of course).

As for 1 Corinthians 13: It would seem at first glance that Continuationism is true based on the phrase "face to face" because it does refer to Moses looking at the Lord in Exodus. But looking closer, Moses did wear a veil.

I see this veil as the bible/glass/mirror that we see our reflection in within both 1 Corinthians 13, and James 1. Moses also did receive the Law from God, as well. This was an important part of the reason why Moses was encountering God. In James 1, the perfect law of liberty is mentioned. This is in reference to the Word and how we need to obey the Word (perfect law of liberty). If we don't we are like a man who looks in a mirror and forgets what he looks like. 1 Corinthians 13 says we look through a mirror darkly. It is obscured. But when we see in the mirror face to face (our spiritual reflection being transformed into the image of Christ vs. our own physical body type image, we will be conformed like unto Christ's image). This is how I see it. The pieces of the puzzle fit together neatly when looking at the whole of Scripture.

My objection to your staying with this premise is refusing to understand covenant rules. Your not alone. No other Cessationist has ever taken these rules into account as they pick and choose what to believe within the covenant and what they choose to discard by unbelief, preferring to go against them into the realm of non-Spirit humanly reasoned myths. NOTHING changes inside a covenant, unless there is a specific clause within the covenant like early and latter rain of the covenant prophecy in Joel 2, until the whole covenant is fulfilled by the maker of the covenant (Jesus) and in some cases, replaced after fulfillment. In other words, the first and second comings of Jesus. We are in His New Covenant, and just as Jesus said, these signs will follow those who BELIEVE. That is not who is an apostle as Cessationists erroneously claim, but who believes and is baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Every one of us is to spread the gospel, from the least to the greatest.

And do yourself a favor and don't, as many have, say something uninformed about serpents and poison, and instead learn Hebrew idioms. That is referring to "enemies." Christianity will never be stamped out by demons (which also refers to serpents), and we have power over the demons, nor be overthrown by enemies of the Church, such as Muslims to just name one.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

1stcenturylady

Spirit-filled follower of Christ
Site Supporter
Feb 13, 2017
11,189
4,193
76
Tennessee
✟431,122.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Republican
Nobody is discounting the working of God in our life altogether. Believers receive love, joy, peace, and other fruits of the Spirit. God can talk to us (not audibly or by a feeling) using His Word in unique ways.

But these are more subtle. They are not the kind of experiences held at certain Charismatic churches.

His sheep hear His voice, literally, as we abide in Him. And in my personal relationship with Him, I've learned to not pray my wants to Him, but to wait for Him to tell me what to pray, I pray HIS words, and it is answered immediately.

He always starts with this verse in my mind, "If you abide in Me, and my Rhemas (specific spoken words) abide in you, you shall ask what you will and it shall be done for you. John 15:7

That is what I do. He literally starts out by confirming I am abiding in Him, He tells me what to pray for specifically, and His will becomes my will, and it is answered immediately. Jason, you can have a relationship like this also.

As far as the Word, I know and depend on the word to be true for me TODAY. The New Testament is not a history book but a template of how I conduct my life. "Forbid not to speak in tongues." "Seek the higher gifts." "7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: 8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills." These I obey, because His voice is wonderful to hear, and our relationship is very personal. He knows me. I walk in the Spirit, and do not let the flesh rule any part of my life. And my faith is unshakable. You can't because you won't. That is unbelief against God performing His Word, based on fear and believing He is not the same yesterday, TODAY, and forever; and we all know where fear comes from. Cessationists believe these are now from the devil. Well I've got news for you, the devil runs from me! I have experienced every one of the gifts of the Spirit, except different kinds of tongues and interpretation of that type of tongue. Those are different than our prayer language given to each one individually who believe and are baptized (not for the "profit of all.") But, yes, even miracles.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,507
7,861
...
✟1,194,200.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
His sheep hear His voice, literally, as we abide in Him. And in my personal relationship with Him, I've learned to not pray my wants to Him, but to wait for Him to tell me what to pray, I pray HIS words, and it is answered immediately.

He always starts with this verse in my mind, "If you abide in Me, and my Rhemas (specific spoken words) abide in you, you shall ask what you will and it shall be done for you. John 15:7

That is what I do. He literally starts out by confirming I am abiding in Him, He tells me what to pray for specifically, and His will becomes my will, and it is answered immediately. Jason, you can have a relationship like this also.

As far as the Word, I know and depend on the word to be true for me TODAY. The New Testament is not a history book but a template of how I conduct my life. "Forbid not to speak in tongues." "Seek the higher gifts." "7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: 8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills." These I obey, because His voice is wonderful to hear, and our relationship is very personal. He knows me. I walk in the Spirit, and do not let the flesh rule any part of my life. And my faith is unshakable. You can't because you won't. That is unbelief against God performing His Word, based on fear and believing He is not the same yesterday, TODAY, and forever; and we all know where fear comes from. Cessationists believe these are now from the devil. Well I've got news for you, the devil runs from me! I have experienced every one of the gifts of the Spirit, except different kinds of tongues and interpretation of that type of tongue. Those are different than our prayer language given to each one individually who believe and are baptized (not for the "profit of all.") But, yes, even miracles.

How about this.

If tongues are truly of GOD, I want you to ask the LORD to help you to stop praying in tongues if they are not of GOD. Pray for 40 days. Ask Jesus (something like this):

"Lord Jesus, if tongues are not for today, then I do not want to use them anymore. Please take away my ability or desire to speak in tongues if they are not for today. If they are for today, please help to show me more of the verses that verify the truth of them. Please help to show me the truth on this. I am taking a challenge to seek out the truth, just in case I am wrong. In Jesus name I pray. Thank you Lord."​

You have nothing to lose in praying something like this.

Please be aware that I am praying if the Continuationism position is true and if GOD is operating fully like He did with the early church (Even despite all the Scripture and accounts I have seen that tell me otherwise). I will ask the Lord to reveal the truth to me on this topic if it is His will.

Blessings to you in the Lord.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

1stcenturylady

Spirit-filled follower of Christ
Site Supporter
Feb 13, 2017
11,189
4,193
76
Tennessee
✟431,122.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Republican
How about this.

If tongues are truly of GOD, I want you to ask the LORD to help you to stop praying in tongues if they are not of GOD. Pray for 40 days. Ask Jesus (something like this):

"Lord Jesus, if tongues are not for today, then I do not want to use them anymore. Please take away my ability or desire to speak in tongues if they are not for today. If they are for today, please help to show me more of the verses that verify the truth of them. Please help to show me the truth on this. I am taking a challenge to seek out the truth, just in case I am wrong. In Jesus name I pray. Thank you Lord."​

You have nothing to lose in praying something like this.

Please be aware that I am praying if the Continuationism position is true and if GOD is operating fully like He did with the early church (Even despite all the Scripture and accounts I have seen that tell me otherwise). I will ask the Lord to reveal the truth to me on this topic if it is His will.

Blessings to you in the Lord.

I already did this. I also asked Him to teach me what I don't understand, and over a 7 year period when I came to an issue like why does it seem the Acts 2 account contradicts 1 Corinthians 14:2, I would go to bed and early the next morning, while I was just waking up and before I had even opened my eyes, I would clearly hear the answer. This happened for 7 years, and then I decided to write a book on the subject of what He taught me, because every issue I could think of was answered and now nothing contradicts Scripture. It has just been when we believe a myth, Scripture will contradict that myth. But Scripture will only confirm Scripture and you end up with a tightly fitted beautiful mosaic.

Because I knew very little about tongues before starting this journey, all I have learned is from the Spirit. I take no credit for it. Here is a comment from someone who bought my book from Amazon.com:

"I have been a Pentecostal/Charismatic for 50 years. I have read most books on the gift of tongues. I have found this book the best I have ever read. It is well researched, and she uses a good combination of Scriptures to build a very strong foundation for what she has discovered, both through the New Testament and through hers and others experiences in how the gift has been used in Bible times and in the modern day. I was really blessed by reading this book, and I would recommend it to anyone who wants to know the truth about the gift of tongues and how it is a sign, and especially for those who are seeking for the gift. Buy it! Read it! You will definitely not be disappointed. And this is coming from one who has an M.A. in English Literature, and an M.Div, and who is very discriminating when it comes to receiving literature on the gifts of the Spirit, especially tongues!"

And the editor also gave this review: "Although the topic of tongues has been covered in many books, this little book stands out, because it has new things to say and breathes new life into a discussion Christians have been having for decades. Not in “addition” to scripture, but letting all-scripture, rather than denominational opinions form new answers. No matter how much you’ve studied, either pro or con, you’ll be surprised to find original thoughts due to the author’s original way of thinking, uncluttered by denominational biases, but letting the Word of God systematically speak for itself."

By the way, the gift that the Spirit used to reveal the truth in Scripture - His meaning of His words, not some denomination, is prophecy. Prophecy is not just foretelling, but forthtelling. Peter on the Day of Pentecost received this gift for determinging that Joel 2 was being activated - the New Covenant. So you see, prophecy was not just for writing Scripture, but understand the meaning straight from the Author and not man.

And if you think the book is just for Cessationists, no, I've changed the mind of 6 Pentecostal pastors on some hard to understand verses.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,507
7,861
...
✟1,194,200.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I already did this. I also asked Him to teach me what I don't understand, and over a 7 year period when I came to an issue like why does it seem the Acts 2 account contradicts 1 Corinthians 14:2, I would go to bed and early the next morning, while I was just waking up and before I had even opened my eyes, I would clearly hear the answer. This happened for 7 years, and then I decided to write a book on the subject of what He taught me, because every issue I could think of was answered and now nothing contradicts Scripture. It has just been when we believe a myth, Scripture will contradict that myth. But Scripture will only confirm Scripture and you end up with a tightly fitted beautiful mosaic.

Because I knew very little about tongues before starting this journey, all I have learned is from the Spirit. I take no credit for it. Here is a comment from someone who bought my book from Amazon.com:

"I have been a Pentecostal/Charismatic for 50 years. I have read most books on the gift of tongues. I have found this book the best I have ever read. It is well researched, and she uses a good combination of Scriptures to build a very strong foundation for what she has discovered, both through the New Testament and through hers and others experiences in how the gift has been used in Bible times and in the modern day. I was really blessed by reading this book, and I would recommend it to anyone who wants to know the truth about the gift of tongues and how it is a sign, and especially for those who are seeking for the gift. Buy it! Read it! You will definitely not be disappointed. And this is coming from one who has an M.A. in English Literature, and an M.Div, and who is very discriminating when it comes to receiving literature on the gifts of the Spirit, especially tongues!"

And the editor also gave this review: "Although the topic of tongues has been covered in many books, this little book stands out, because it has new things to say and breathes new life into a discussion Christians have been having for decades. Not in “addition” to scripture, but letting all-scripture, rather than denominational opinions form new answers. No matter how much you’ve studied, either pro or con, you’ll be surprised to find original thoughts due to the author’s original way of thinking, uncluttered by denominational biases, but letting the Word of God systematically speak for itself."

By the way, the gift that the Spirit used to reveal the truth in Scripture - His meaning of His words, not some denomination, is prophecy. Prophecy is not just foretelling, but forthtelling. Peter on the Day of Pentecost received this gift for determinging that Joel 2 was being activated - the New Covenant. So you see, prophecy was not just for writing Scripture, but understand the meaning straight from the Author and not man.

And if you think the book is just for Cessationists, no, I've changed the mind of 6 Pentecostal pastors on some hard to understand verses.

No. I am not talking about your past prayer in going down a path that you wanted. I am talking about praying that maybe tongues is not of God for 40 days and ask God to show you the verses on Cessationism being possibly true. I know this may be foreign to you, but if I was in your shoes, I would do this to have 100% certainty. For me: Nothing is more important than to be cautious and not to jump into something without double checking and triple checking and then checking again to see if something lines up with Scripture. Why?

Well, ecstatic utterances is not something that is clearly seen in Scripture. Foreign languages (unknown tongues) is something that is seen in light of we know the Bible has revealed to us plainly. Nowhere does the Bible teach that the Modern day version of tongues we see that are popular today. Inferences are made on certain verses that are not that clear (Just as other churches that are not Sola Scriptura make inferences to validate their own man made traditions).

So again, I challenge you to take the 40 day prayer challenge to see if Cessationism may be true. I know it goes against everything you believe, but what does it hurt to ask GOD? If it is not true, then GOD will only show you even more verses why it is not true. But if it is true, then GOD will open your eyes to see the truth on Cessationism.

Basically I am asking you to pray to GOD if Cessationism is true for 40 days and then see what happens. This is something I know that you have not done.

Note: Cessationism is not the ceasing of miracles altogether. It is not even the ceasing of all gifts, either. Cessationism is the view or position that the miraculous gifts have ceased. For we do not see any miraculous gifts like we do in the early church. Nobody is being healed by a person's shadow. Nobody is being healed by giving their clothing to them. This is confirmed by Scripture, as well (if one is open to seeing it).
 
Upvote 0

1stcenturylady

Spirit-filled follower of Christ
Site Supporter
Feb 13, 2017
11,189
4,193
76
Tennessee
✟431,122.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Republican
I am talking about praying that maybe tongues is not of God for 40 days and ask God to show you the verses on Cessationism being possibly true.

You forget, I was a Cessationist and totally believed speaking in tongues was of the devil. It was during my correspondence with a Pentecostal girl I met in 1971 (we were both fine artists and met because of art) that while I was answering her latest letter using the Cessationist text in 1 Corinthians 13, that I kept reading the text to see what else I could throw at her, that I read "face to face" and the Spirit came all over me and revealed that was the second coming. That was the first breakthrough on continuation of the gifts, and this was my second encounter with the Holy Spirit and He started drawing me. The first was in 1970 when as a Seventh-day Adventist and I was debating with a Protestant about law, that after 4 hours, it was like a lightbulb went off in my brain and I understood. I left the SDA denomination immediately, and was open minded ever since, and was never a closed minded denominationalist again. I only want His meaning to His word, and He gives it to me. It wasn't until 1977, that I was finally baptized in the Holy Spirit and could actually have power over sin and received many gifts, best of all - hearing His voice. Never before that time did I ever receive an answer to prayer. But after the filling that was when He first began to teach me how to wait for His voice ONLY so to pray His will and receive the answer immediately.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

1stcenturylady

Spirit-filled follower of Christ
Site Supporter
Feb 13, 2017
11,189
4,193
76
Tennessee
✟431,122.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Republican
No. I am not talking about your past prayer in going down a path that you wanted. I am talking about praying that maybe tongues is not of God for 40 days and ask God to show you the verses on Cessationism being possibly true. I know this may be foreign to you, but if I was in your shoes, I would do this to have 100% certainty. For me: Nothing is more important than to be cautious and not to jump into something without double checking and triple checking and then checking again to see if something lines up with Scripture. Why?

Well, ecstatic utterances is not something that is clearly seen in Scripture. Foreign languages (unknown tongues) is something that is seen in light of we know the Bible has revealed to us plainly. Nowhere does the Bible teach that the Modern day version of tongues we see that are popular today. Inferences are made on certain verses that are not that clear (Just as other churches that are not Sola Scriptura make inferences to validate their own man made traditions).

So again, I challenge you to take the 40 day prayer challenge to see if Cessationism may be true. I know it goes against everything you believe, but what does it hurt to ask GOD? If it is not true, then GOD will only show you even more verses why it is not true. But if it is true, then GOD will open your eyes to see the truth on Cessationism.

Basically I am asking you to pray to GOD if Cessationism is true for 40 days and then see what happens. This is something I know that you have not done.

Note: Cessationism is not the ceasing of miracles altogether. It is not even the ceasing of all gifts, either. Cessationism is the view or position that the miraculous gifts have ceased. For we do not see any miraculous gifts like we do in the early church. Nobody is being healed by a person's shadow. Nobody is being healed by giving their clothing to them. This is confirmed by Scripture, as well (if one is open to seeing it).

If you are going to actually do this, you are going to have to shelve ALL your Cessationist myths that contradict even one scripture. I studied it for 5-6 years to make sure.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,507
7,861
...
✟1,194,200.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
You're asking the Lord to reveal to you that what history records as the status of this matter (cessation or not) over the course of most of church history is actually fiction?

Church history is not the Word of God. Men can lie. But if you do like to put stock in what men say, church history appears to support Cessationism and not Continuationism. We can actually trace the Charismatic movement or boom to one particular event in history.

THE PENTECOSTAL EXPLOSION

The Azuza Street revival of 1906-13 was the launching pad for a worldwide Pentecostal renewal. The main feature of this Pentecostal outpouring was the "baptism with the Holy Spirit," an experience subsequent to salvation, which is evidenced by speaking in other tongues. This was the crown jewel restored by what many called the "second Pentecost." There were, however, spiritual flashes that preceded Azuza, which prepared the way for its inauguration. On January 1, 1901, in Topeka, Kansas, Agnes Ozman, a student at Charles Parham's Bethel Bible School, spoke in tongues. Sometime later, Parham himself had the same experience and from then on preached that all believers who sought the tongues experience diligently would be recipients of the blessing. Most recognize Parham as the founder of the Pentecostal movement.

Parham, an avid holiness preacher, was nurtured in the culture of religious experience. In his search for something more, tongues became the celebrated encounter filling that void. In 1905, a zealous black holiness preacher by the name of William J. Seymour came under the tutelage of Parham in Alvin, Texas, a few miles south of Houston. It wasn't long before Seymour received the tongues experience and took the Pentecostal message to Azuza Street in Los Angeles.

THE LATTER-RAIN MOVEMENT

Three pioneers at the forefront of the Deliverance Revival were William Branham, Oral Roberts, and Gordon Lindsey. These men bore remarkably different personalities, but were unquestionably the fuel that kept the revival running. Branham ignited the revival, stirring crowds with apparent miracles and prophetic abilities. Roberts was the popularizer with his heart-tugging message that God is good and wills that His people prosper and be healed. He was the first to bring healing crusades inside the homes of millions who had never been exposed to the healing message by initiating a national weekly television program. Lindsey was the organizer, bringing cohesion with superb administrative skills.

Branham's teachings profoundly influenced a new sect springing from the neo-Pentecostal deliverance revival known as the "New Order of the Latter-Rain." Branham also shaped the thoughts and practices of many key Pentecostal figures.

The doctrinal system of the Latter-Rain Movement:

The doctrinal system of the Latter-Rain included Pentecostalism's baptism of the Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues and the New Pentecostal deliverance revivals miraculous healing thrust. But the fiery movement had its own distinctives as well. There were primarily seven new teachings that shaped the Latter-Rain:

Restorationism -- This further development of restoration theology viewed God as progressively restoring truths to the church since the Reformation.

Fivefold Ministry -- The teaching that God is restoring apostles and prophets to the church to function with the three other gifted offices: evangelists, pastors, and teachers (Eph. 4:11). Apostles and prophets provided direction with new revelations that would play a major role in paving the way for Christ's second coming.

Laying on of the Hands -- A ritual performed by modern apostles and prophets to impart the Holy Spirit and other spiritual blessings and gifts.

Prophecy -- Views the practice of "personal prophecy" as being restored to the church. Prophecy would no longer be restricted to general words of exhortation, but would include personal detailed revelations for guidance and instruction.

Recovery of True Worship -- The belief that God's manifested presence is dependent upon a certain order of worship involving singing in tongues, clapping, shouting, singing prophecies, and a new order of praise dancing.

Immortalization of the Saints -- The belief that those believers moving in the truth of Latter-Rain restoration, not necessarily all in the church, will attain an immortal state before Jesus returns.

Unity of the Faith -- The doctrine that the church, usually perceived to be a band of overcomers in neo-Pentecostal ranks, will attain unity in the faith before Christ returns.


Source:
http://jbeard.users.rapidnet.com/bdm/Psychology/char/more/hist.htm
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,507
7,861
...
✟1,194,200.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
You forget, I was a Cessationist and totally believed speaking in tongues was of the devil. It was during my correspondence with a Pentecostal girl I met in 1971 (we were both fine artists and met because of art) that while I was answering her latest letter using the Cessationist text in 1 Corinthians 13, that I kept reading the text to see what else I could throw at her, that I read "face to face" and the Spirit came all over me and revealed that was the second coming. That was the first breakthrough on continuation of the gifts, and this was my second encounter with the Holy Spirit and He started drawing me. The first was in 1970 when as a Seventh-day Adventist and I was debating with a Protestant about law, that after 4 hours, it was like a lightbulb went off in my brain and I understood. I left the SDA denomination immediately, and was open minded ever since, and was never a closed minded denominationalist again. I only want His meaning to His word, and He gives it to me. It wasn't until 1977, that I was finally baptized in the Holy Spirit and could actually have power over sin and received many gifts, best of all - hearing His voice. Never before that time did I ever receive an answer to prayer. But after the filling that was when He first began to teach me how to wait for His voice ONLY so to pray His will and receive the answer immediately.

But I don't think you prayed properly about it's truthfulness. To truly know if Cessationism is the truth, you have to pray about it. Some truths are not so easy to know in God's Word (Especially if we get caught up into something else that is not mentioned in God's Word or is not clearly mentioned).
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,507
7,861
...
✟1,194,200.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
THE LATTER-RAIN MOVEMENT

Three pioneers at the forefront of the Deliverance Revival were William Branham, Oral Roberts, and Gordon Lindsey. These men bore remarkably different personalities, but were unquestionably the fuel that kept the revival running. Branham ignited the revival, stirring crowds with apparent miracles and prophetic abilities. Roberts was the popularizer with his heart-tugging message that God is good and wills that His people prosper and be healed. He was the first to bring healing crusades inside the homes of millions who had never been exposed to the healing message by initiating a national weekly television program. Lindsey was the organizer, bringing cohesion with superb administrative skills.

Branham's teachings profoundly influenced a new sect springing from the neo-Pentecostal deliverance revival known as the "New Order of the Latter-Rain." Branham also shaped the thoughts and practices of many key Pentecostal figures.

The doctrinal system of the Latter-Rain Movement:

The doctrinal system of the Latter-Rain included Pentecostalism's baptism of the Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues and the New Pentecostal deliverance revivals miraculous healing thrust. But the fiery movement had its own distinctives as well. There were primarily seven new teachings that shaped the Latter-Rain:

Restorationism -- This further development of restoration theology viewed God as progressively restoring truths to the church since the Reformation.

Fivefold Ministry -- The teaching that God is restoring apostles and prophets to the church to function with the three other gifted offices: evangelists, pastors, and teachers (Eph. 4:11). Apostles and prophets provided direction with new revelations that would play a major role in paving the way for Christ's second coming.

Laying on of the Hands -- A ritual performed by modern apostles and prophets to impart the Holy Spirit and other spiritual blessings and gifts.

Prophecy -- Views the practice of "personal prophecy" as being restored to the church. Prophecy would no longer be restricted to general words of exhortation, but would include personal detailed revelations for guidance and instruction.

Recovery of True Worship -- The belief that God's manifested presence is dependent upon a certain order of worship involving singing in tongues, clapping, shouting, singing prophecies, and a new order of praise dancing.

Immortalization of the Saints -- The belief that those believers moving in the truth of Latter-Rain restoration, not necessarily all in the church, will attain an immortal state before Jesus returns.

Unity of the Faith -- The doctrine that the church, usually perceived to be a band of overcomers in neo-Pentecostal ranks, will attain unity in the faith before Christ returns.


Source:
http://jbeard.users.rapidnet.com/bdm/Psychology/char/more/hist.htm

I am always particularly suspicious of a radical belief if it can be traced to a particular point in history.
 
Upvote 0

1stcenturylady

Spirit-filled follower of Christ
Site Supporter
Feb 13, 2017
11,189
4,193
76
Tennessee
✟431,122.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Republican
But I don't think you prayed properly about it's truthfulness. To truly know if Cessationism is the truth, you have to pray about it. Some truths are not so easy to know in God's Word (Especially if we get swooped up into something else that is not mentioned in God's Word or is not clearly mentioned).

I've already done this with my husband. We took a trip and played a 6 cassette set of tapes against tongues and proCessationism by John MacArthur. Many times both of our mouths flew open in utter unbelief at some of his more outrageous claims. Later I took that borrowed set of tapes and transcribed the whole thing so I could study every word, text and church history to see for myself.
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,507
7,861
...
✟1,194,200.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
If you are going to actually do this, you are going to have to shelve ALL your Cessationist myths that contradict even one scripture. I studied it for 5-6 years to make sure.

God can change my mind and reveal other verses to me if Continuationism is true. I do pray and ask every once in a while if it is true (even though I do regard it as being highly unlikely). But I am asking you. I am asking you to take a 40 day prayer challenge to see if Cessationism is true. You have not done this before.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

1stcenturylady

Spirit-filled follower of Christ
Site Supporter
Feb 13, 2017
11,189
4,193
76
Tennessee
✟431,122.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Republican
Church history is not the Word of God. Men can lie. But if you do like to put stock in what men say, church history appears to support Cessationism and not Continuationism. We can actually trace the Charismatic movement or boom to one particular event in history.

THE PENTECOSTAL EXPLOSION

The Azuza Street revival of 1906-13 was the launching pad for a worldwide Pentecostal renewal. The main feature of this Pentecostal outpouring was the "baptism with the Holy Spirit," an experience subsequent to salvation, which is evidenced by speaking in other tongues. This was the crown jewel restored by what many called the "second Pentecost." There were, however, spiritual flashes that preceded Azuza, which prepared the way for its inauguration. On January 1, 1901, in Topeka, Kansas, Agnes Ozman, a student at Charles Parham's Bethel Bible School, spoke in tongues. Sometime later, Parham himself had the same experience and from then on preached that all believers who sought the tongues experience diligently would be recipients of the blessing. Most recognize Parham as the founder of the Pentecostal movement.

Parham, an avid holiness preacher, was nurtured in the culture of religious experience. In his search for something more, tongues became the celebrated encounter filling that void. In 1905, a zealous black holiness preacher by the name of William J. Seymour came under the tutelage of Parham in Alvin, Texas, a few miles south of Houston. It wasn't long before Seymour received the tongues experience and took the Pentecostal message to Azuza Street in Los Angeles.

THE LATTER-RAIN MOVEMENT

Three pioneers at the forefront of the Deliverance Revival were William Branham, Oral Roberts, and Gordon Lindsey. These men bore remarkably different personalities, but were unquestionably the fuel that kept the revival running. Branham ignited the revival, stirring crowds with apparent miracles and prophetic abilities. Roberts was the popularizer with his heart-tugging message that God is good and wills that His people prosper and be healed. He was the first to bring healing crusades inside the homes of millions who had never been exposed to the healing message by initiating a national weekly television program. Lindsey was the organizer, bringing cohesion with superb administrative skills.

Branham's teachings profoundly influenced a new sect springing from the neo-Pentecostal deliverance revival known as the "New Order of the Latter-Rain." Branham also shaped the thoughts and practices of many key Pentecostal figures.

The doctrinal system of the Latter-Rain Movement:

The doctrinal system of the Latter-Rain included Pentecostalism's baptism of the Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues and the New Pentecostal deliverance revivals miraculous healing thrust. But the fiery movement had its own distinctives as well. There were primarily seven new teachings that shaped the Latter-Rain:

Restorationism -- This further development of restoration theology viewed God as progressively restoring truths to the church since the Reformation.

Fivefold Ministry -- The teaching that God is restoring apostles and prophets to the church to function with the three other gifted offices: evangelists, pastors, and teachers (Eph. 4:11). Apostles and prophets provided direction with new revelations that would play a major role in paving the way for Christ's second coming.

Laying on of the Hands -- A ritual performed by modern apostles and prophets to impart the Holy Spirit and other spiritual blessings and gifts.

Prophecy -- Views the practice of "personal prophecy" as being restored to the church. Prophecy would no longer be restricted to general words of exhortation, but would include personal detailed revelations for guidance and instruction.

Recovery of True Worship -- The belief that God's manifested presence is dependent upon a certain order of worship involving singing in tongues, clapping, shouting, singing prophecies, and a new order of praise dancing.

Immortalization of the Saints -- The belief that those believers moving in the truth of Latter-Rain restoration, not necessarily all in the church, will attain an immortal state before Jesus returns.

Unity of the Faith -- The doctrine that the church, usually perceived to be a band of overcomers in neo-Pentecostal ranks, will attain unity in the faith before Christ returns.


Source:
http://jbeard.users.rapidnet.com/bdm/Psychology/char/more/hist.htm

In your study, what did you find that was questionable, such as spiritualism, seances or any occult practice that would lead this to being of the devil, and not God?
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.