Another Argument Against Flat Earth

Paulos23 · Mar 20, 2019

patrick jane said:
Nobody can get to the edge because of the size, the distances, the weather, temperatures, fuel capacity and communications. The frozen land beyond the ice wall could be tens of thousands of miles and cannot be traversed. That's what they discovered from images taken from rockets in the late 40s and 50s. They certainly would run out and tell the world that science is dead wrong about cosmology and the Bible is true and accurate.

I don't understand why you think this would be kept a secret. Unless it is the only way you can reconcile the fact that a majority of the world disagrees with you.

Strathos · Mar 20, 2019

Funny how no government is even attempting to exploit all of the untouched resources in these 'tens of thousands of miles' of land despite the fact that the whole world desperately needs them...

SeventyOne · Mar 20, 2019

Paulos23 said:
I don't understand why you think this would be kept a secret. Unless it is the only way you can reconcile the fact that a majority of the world disagrees with you.

That's really a secondary issue. Once one realizes the actual shape of the earth, then it's just a matter of realizing most people don't know. At that point one can only speculate as to why that is the case, but whatever the conclusion is, it has no actual effect on the shape of the earth, because opinion has no power to alter the shape. Even if 9,999,999 out of 10,000,000 people believe the earth to be a ball, it would still never make it a ball.

A good case study on this is evolution. It is a lie, but so many believe it to be true. And if one were to apply the same arguments as to why are all these evolutionists lying in a massive cover-up, I believe the typical response would be something along the line that they aren't lying and it's the truth. That would indicate the vast majority of evolutionists aren't knowingly lying, but actually believe the lie as truth. Evolutionists aren't out there trying to view their world through the eyes of creationism, rather they interpret all they see through the evolutionary lens.

It's exactly the same way for this topic. There isn't some mass conspiracy hiding the shape of the earth. Heliocentric cosmology adherents believe the lie as truth. They interpret everything they see within that paradigm, and they aren't going around trying to interpret their surroundings through the lens of a flat earth paradigm.

pitabread · Mar 20, 2019

SeventyOne said:
good case study on this is evolution. It is a lie, but so many believe it to be true. And if one were to apply the same arguments as to why are all these evolutionists lying in a massive cover-up, I believe the typical response would be something along the line that they aren't lying and it's the truth.

The Theory of Evolution is an applied science. Claiming it's a lie makes zero sense whatsoever.

The only people claiming it's a lie seem to be people completely ignorant about what evolution is (as a science) and how it used. The fact that evolution denial (e.g. creationist belief) is correlated with lack of understanding of science and evolution, and lack of educational attainment seems to be part of the problem.

The real issue is education or in the case of creationists, lack thereof.

lasthero · Mar 20, 2019

patrick jane said:
They certainly would run out and tell the world that science is dead wrong about cosmology and the Bible is true and accurate.

Why would that revelation mean that the Bible is correct? It’s not the only holy book that claims the world is flat. Why not Islam? Why not the Torah? Why not any of the others that talk about a flat earth?

Strathos · Mar 20, 2019

The Bible doesn't even say that the earth is flat, it takes creative interpretation to get that from it.

Paulos23 · Mar 20, 2019

SeventyOne said:
That's really a secondary issue. Once one realizes the actual shape of the earth, then it's just a matter of realizing most people don't know. At that point one can only speculate as to why that is the case, but whatever the conclusion is, it has no actual effect on the shape of the earth, because opinion has no power to alter the shape. Even if 9,999,999 out of 10,000,000 people believe the earth to be a ball, it would still never make it a ball.

A good case study on this is evolution. It is a lie, but so many believe it to be true. And if one were to apply the same arguments as to why are all these evolutionists lying in a massive cover-up, I believe the typical response would be something along the line that they aren't lying and it's the truth. That would indicate the vast majority of evolutionists aren't knowingly lying, but actually believe the lie as truth. Evolutionists aren't out there trying to view their world through the eyes of creationism, rather they interpret all they see through the evolutionary lens.

It's exactly the same way for this topic. There isn't some mass conspiracy hiding the shape of the earth. Heliocentric cosmology adherents believe the lie as truth. They interpret everything they see within that paradigm, and they aren't going around trying to interpret their surroundings through the lens of a flat earth paradigm.

The fact that scientists make careers on new data and findings makes it ha rd for me to see a Flat Earth coverup, or that Evolution is not true. If there was enough evidence for a new way of looking at realty that makes a new science field, I would expect some scientist somewhere to jump on that. With good data they could win over the whole scientific field.

And yet, this has not happened. instead we get conspiracy theories and cover up stories that are to big to believe. "They are lieing, while I know the truth!". Been down that road before, and it didn't pan out then with other things. I don't think it will pan out now.

SeventyOne · Mar 20, 2019

Paulos23 said:
The fact that scientists make careers on new data and findings makes it ha rd for me to see a Flat Earth coverup, or that Evolution is not true. If there was enough evidence for a new way of looking at realty that makes a new science field, I would expect some scientist somewhere to jump on that. With good data they could win over the whole scientific field.

And yet, this has not happened. instead we get conspiracy theories and cover up stories that are to big to believe. "They are lieing, while I know the truth!". Been down that road before, and it didn't pan out then with other things. I don't think it will pan out now.

There is zero reason to expect scientists as a whole to go so against the grain completely. I think you are holding your intellect captive to the unrealistic expectations of others. Those in that field, historically, who seek to upset their little world tend to be de-legitimatized, ostracized, or just simply cast out. Just a simple small scale investigation into those who did take a stand against evolution and what happened to them can be seen in that Ben Stein movie, 'Expelled'. I wish people would stop pawning off their ability to think critically onto others.

Paulos23 · Mar 20, 2019

SeventyOne said:
There is zero reason to expect scientists as a whole to go so against the grain completely. I think you are holding your intellect captive to the unrealistic expectations of others. Those in that field, historically, who seek to upset their little world tend to be de-legitimatized, ostracized, or just simply cast out. Just a simple small scale investigation into those who did take a stand against evolution and what happened to them can be seen in that Ben Stein movie, 'Expelled'. I wish people would stop pawning off their ability to think critically onto others.

Oh please. Expelled did not give any evidence for creation. It was a hack job against evolution, and that was all it was. It didn't give any good information that creation is real.

And that is what I want. Good evidence. Not to ignore the current evidence, bit to add to it and figure out reality.

Not to do smear attacks.

patrick jane · Mar 20, 2019

Paulos23 said:
I don't understand why you think this would be kept a secret. Unless it is the only way you can reconcile the fact that a majority of the world disagrees with you.

I can't help people "get it" - Most folks can't because they are so indoctrinated and brainwashed. So, unfortunately, if you can't comprehend how and why the true nature of the earth, cosmos and creation are hidden from us there's really nothing I can do to help you. I can see and I can comprehend. Just like I imagined deep space and countless galaxies, I can imagine the enclosed cosmos with the flat motionless earth at the center and focus of God's creation FOR MANKIND.

patrick jane · Mar 20, 2019

Paulos23 said:
I don't understand why you think this would be kept a secret. Unless it is the only way you can reconcile the fact that a majority of the world disagrees with you.

I can't understand why you think governments and the military tell you the truth. Unless the alternative would make you cry like a little baby. This isn't about what YOU would do if you "ran the world". You don't and the people that do aren't nice, friendly and open to dialogue. If you think you live in a wonderful world filled with love and truth you're living a fantasy. You are controlled and told what to think and how to think. Have a great life.

Aman777 · Mar 20, 2019

pitabread said:
Except when it doesn't and then you make up a bunch of creationist fan fiction to deal with the contradictions.

That's not a very good excuse for being unable to refute me either Scripturally, Scientifically, Historically nor Genetically. Try a little harder. It's fine with me if you seek outside help. :oldthumbsup:

lasthero · Mar 20, 2019

Aman777 · Mar 20, 2019

Paulos23 said:
Been there, done that with you before. Done now.

Prove it.

Aman777 · Mar 20, 2019

Strathos said:
The Bible doesn't even say that the earth is flat, it takes creative interpretation to get that from it.

False as Genesis 1:8-10 shows. On the 2nd Day/Age God the Trinity finished making the firmament and called it Heaven. On the 3rd Day/Age, the SAME Day the first Earth was made, God took water from beneath the solid firmament and put it inside the hollow container. He also put dry ground on top of that water to an elevation of 22.5 feet above sea level. Genesis 7:20

Do it yourself. Put water in the bottom of a container and add dry ground on top. Voila! a model of Adam's Flat Earth, the first Earth of Genesis. God's Truth is so simple, it causes mortal scholars to stand in awe.

Paulos23 · Mar 20, 2019

patrick jane said:
I can't understand why you think governments and the military tell you the truth. Unless the alternative would make you cry like a little baby. This isn't about what YOU would do if you "ran the world". You don't and the people that do aren't nice, friendly and open to dialogue. If you think you live in a wonderful world filled with love and truth you're living a fantasy. You are controlled and told what to think and how to think. Have a great life.

Please. What I want is good evidence, not conspiracy theories or attacks on solid science.

I have not seen that from the FE or CS crowds. And while I do keep an open mind, at some point you need to provide good evidence for me to make the jump. And even with my research, I can't see anything to FE. It just doesn't fit with the data from centuries of observations.

Plus, there stuff that works because the world is round. I don't see any benefit coming out of flat earth theory.

Strathos · Mar 20, 2019

And of course the flat eathers always find a way to deflect instead of addressing the problems that their models can't explain. Case in point - the OP, which has gone unanswered for 29 pages now.

pitabread · Mar 20, 2019

Aman777 said:
That's not a very good excuse for being unable to refute me either Scripturally, Scientifically, Historically nor Genetically. Try a little harder. It's fine with me if you seek outside help.

That's not how the burden of proof works. We've had this conversation before, but apparently none of it stuck. I'm not surprised.

SeventyOne · Mar 20, 2019

Strathos said:
And of course the flat eathers always find a way to deflect instead of addressing the problems that their models can't explain. Case in point - the OP, which has gone unanswered for 29 pages now.

I read that documentation from the OP when it was posted. All it is is someone assuming the earth is a globe and concluding what must be the case if it were. It's not actually proof in itself of anything. Kind of surprised in 29 pages no one on the globe side pointed out that obvious error.

SeventyOne · Mar 20, 2019

Paulos23 said:
Oh please. Expelled did not give any evidence for creation. It was a hack job against evolution, and that was all it was. It didn't give any good information that creation is real.

And that is what I want. Good evidence. Not to ignore the current evidence, bit to add to it and figure out reality.

Not to do smear attacks.

Ummm, it wasn't about proving creation. It was about exposing bias in the scientific community.

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