If Jesus took the punishment for all sinners, why doesn't he go to Hell?

martymonster

Veteran
Dec 15, 2006
3,418
931
✟175,689.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
You know the whole of Job and so do I.

Job also knew enough that He needed a mediator (Job9)

You can’t quote a portion of job and disregard the whole of Job

Remember, after God spoke to him, Job realized that he didn’t know God as well as he thought he did

I don’t agree with your insinuation that God was to blame for the evil that befell Job

The “hedge”of God’s protection was removed


That is the reason behind WHY Job experienced what he experienced

It very clearly says that Job did not sin with his lips, by attributing to God, the evil that befell him. I'm quite away of what Job says, and I also know what it's about.
 
Upvote 0

RDKirk

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner
Supporter
Mar 3, 2013
39,140
20,185
US
✟1,441,619.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Brother, what about Revelation 20:14?

Do you see Hades as a intermediate place between death and the resurrection, or do you have an alternative view of the lake of fire?

Jesus almost certainly did not utter the word "Hades." He probably said Sheol.

What I see is that the gospel writers chose a Greek word that already had a meaning to a Greek-reading audience, a meaning that they considered close enough in concept to whatever Jesus actually said. And even if Jesus did utter "Hades," then Jesus chose the word for the concept a Greek-speaking audience already understood.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: Erik Nelson
Upvote 0

devin553344

I believe in the Resurrection
Nov 10, 2015
3,607
2,249
Unkown
✟93,810.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
I also dont believe it was the lake of fire because Jesus did not go to the second death.

I find that to be a strange doctrine. Because if Jesus didn't pay the price for the liars, then all the liars are going to the second death. In order to pay the price doesn't Jesus have to take your place somehow and bring himself back alive again, like the resurrection from physical death?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 7bjoern7
Upvote 0

Erik Nelson

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Aug 6, 2017
5,117
1,649
46
Utah
✟347,045.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Christ died for our sins on the cross, and was in hell for three days and nights, and rose again the third day because he sufficiently paid for the sins of the world. Christ said that, "Before Abraham was, I am." Jesus Christ is the living God, and he subjected himself and his infinite value to our condition, yet without sin. However, the death that he experienced, both physically and spiritually, he never deserved to experience. So, when he paid that price, that price wasn't paid on his account, but on ours (since he was perfect and infinitely valuable). Just as God is everlasting, so is the sacrifice of Jesus Christ everlasting in payment. He is everlasting in power, in value, in honor, in glory; therefore, his payment is eternally sufficient for the sins of the entire world: past, present, and future.
The curse came from God, because of Man's disobedience in Eden.

God's to impose for disobedience. God's to lift for obedience.

God Mercifully and graciously chooses to LIFT THE CURSE on those who believe in Jesus. Even as God lifted Jesus out of Hades and the grave Through the resurrection and ascension.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Erik Nelson

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Aug 6, 2017
5,117
1,649
46
Utah
✟347,045.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
It sounds like you're describing Penal Substitutionary Atonement theory. And it sounds like you've reached the same dead end in PSA theory logic that I and others have encountered.

I believe in Satisfaction theory. That does a far better job of explaining Our Lord's sacrifice, the atonement and how He can reign as king in Heaven. Satisfaction theory also has a considerable historical pedigree going for it as well. You should check it out.
Satisfaction theory of atonement - Wikipedia
 
Upvote 0

Natsumi Lam

Preparer of the Bride
Supporter
Jan 31, 2015
1,543
682
✟120,306.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
I find that to be a strange doctrine. Because if Jesus didn't pay the price for the liars, then all the liars are going to the second death. In order to pay the price doesn't Jesus have to take your place somehow and bring himself back alive again, like the resurrection from physical death?


I would think so. But for some reason He didnt. We can only speculate.
 
Upvote 0

devin553344

I believe in the Resurrection
Nov 10, 2015
3,607
2,249
Unkown
✟93,810.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
I would think so. But for some reason He didnt. We can only speculate.

Thanks, can you show me proof? Can you point me to scripture that says Jesus didn't suffer the 2nd death for us sinners.

I can produce scripture that says He went into the heart of the earth where the lava is :)
 
Upvote 0

Erik Nelson

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Aug 6, 2017
5,117
1,649
46
Utah
✟347,045.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Ransom theory of atonement - Wikipedia

Christus Victor - Wikipedia

St. Augustine wrote the following to explain the theory:

The Redeemer came and the deceiver was overcome. What did our Redeemer do to our Captor? In payment for us He set the trap, His Cross, with His blood for bait. He [Satan] could indeed shed that blood; but he deserved not to drink it. By shedding the blood of One who was not his debtor, he was forced to release his debtors


"Christus Victor" theory:

Adam and Eve sold humanity over to the Devil at the time of the Fall... Adam and Eve made humanity subject to the Devil during the fall, and that God, in order to redeem humanity, sent Christ as a "ransom" or "bait" so that the Devil, not knowing Christ couldn't die permanently, would kill him, and thus lose all right to humanity following the resurrection...

for [the Christus Victor] view, the domination system, understood as something much larger than the Roman governor and the temple aristocracy, is responsible for the death of Jesus [...] The domination system killed Jesus and thereby disclosed its moral bankruptcy and ultimate defeat
 
Upvote 0

The Righterzpen

Jesus is my Shield in any Desert or Storm
Feb 9, 2019
3,389
1,342
53
Western NY
Visit site
✟144,006.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Others
Thanks, can you show me proof? Can you point me to scripture that says Jesus didn't suffer the 2nd death for us sinners.

I can produce scripture that says He went into the heart of the earth where the lava is :)

To have "tread the winepress of the wrath of almighty God alone" would imply the atonement dealt with the second death; not just hades.

Isaiah 63:3, Revelation 19:15

Jeremiah 48:33 indicates that those who tread it in eternity (paying for their own sin) do so silently.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Erik Nelson

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Aug 6, 2017
5,117
1,649
46
Utah
✟347,045.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
To have "tread the winepress of the wrath of almighty God alone" would imply the atonement dealt with the second death; not just hades.

Isaiah 63:3, Revelation 19:15

Jeremiah 48:33 indicates that those who tread it in eternity (paying for their own sin) do so silently.
Isaiah 63 equals revelation 19 is an astute observation.

Not sure Jeremiah 48 fits though. It's not a divine reference. It's just talking about people in Edom. Being conquered and not being able to make food for themselves.
 
Upvote 0

miknik5

"Let not your heart be troubled"
Jun 9, 2016
15,725
2,781
USA
✟101,174.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Christ had to descend so as to ascend so that He would be first and have the preeminence as our forerunner over all things that men will suffer in this life
He alone had to walk in our humanity and suffer for us so as to become for us the one and only mediator between God and man because He suffered in all things for our sake. Because apart from Christ, we could not enter in

It’s only through Christ that we have access to God

The door between heaven and earth was opened by way of through and by the TRUE VEIL. Which is His Body

He alone entered in for our salvation and through His suffering become for us our one and only source of salvation.

The “veil” which stood between God and man was rent. Through Christ and by His Body, which is the true veil and the only way/bridge/door/gate which brings man back and justifies him in the presence of GOD
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

miknik5

"Let not your heart be troubled"
Jun 9, 2016
15,725
2,781
USA
✟101,174.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Christ descending had to do with His preaching to those who were held in captivity, that generation who had physically died and had not benefited by Christ’s physical coming and the message of salvation by way of THE CROSS

God went back and redeemed those who had been waiting for THE PROMISE and led captivity captive in His train (no man proceeded Him through the DOOR but needed HIM who is the DOOR

The resurrection was a sign for us to understand that through THE CROSS He had been victorious over death

For us

God, in His grace, simply revealed to those whom He chose to reveal it, that He had accomplished for us what we apart from Him could not do
And He opened the way and the only way back to heaven
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

miknik5

"Let not your heart be troubled"
Jun 9, 2016
15,725
2,781
USA
✟101,174.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The story of Elijah being taken up is a prophecy and picture of Christ’s resurrection and an important confession of our faith

It’s what justifies us in the sight of God. Because it says not only how much we were in a need of a savior and acknowledgement of just how far all have fallen, but the very holiness of God. Because we needed a faithful mediator who is our veil and covering for sin
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

miknik5

"Let not your heart be troubled"
Jun 9, 2016
15,725
2,781
USA
✟101,174.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
All will physically die but not all will suffer the second death.

Those who believe in the gospel and place their faith in Jesus have already passed from death to life and will not suffer the second death. They already have a part in the first resurrection because they are already seated in Christ

Those born of His Spirit...know...they were born again of His Spirit
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0