Walk through if I have it wrong, Ezekiel 38-39

Douggg said:

Incorporate whatever you believe into your outline walk through of Ezekiel 38-39.

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They cant be incorporated into ezekiel 38-39.They dont exist during that time.
Except Egypt and Egypt couldnt harm a flee.

Ezekiel 29:15 Egypt will be the lowliest of kingdoms and will never again exalt itself above the nations. For I will diminish Egypt so that it will never again rule over the nations.

Egypt was nuked 1000 years before Gog invades Israel.

shilohsfoal said:

They cant be incorporated into ezekiel 38-39.They dont exist during that time.
Except Egypt and Egypt couldnt harm a flee.
Ezekiel 29:15 Egypt will be the lowliest of kingdoms and will never again exalt itself above the nations. For I will diminish Egypt so that it will never again rule over the nations.

Egypt was nuked 1000 years before Gog invades Israel.

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Interesting.
I would like to invite you and other members to this poll thread I created on Armageddon and Gog Magog.

What about the "Armageddon" and "Gog Magog" Wars in Revelation?

There was a discussion on another thread concerning Armageddon and Gog Magog.
I decided to add a poll thread to better view member's views on those events.
You have the option to vote on 2 of the choices.
If you would like more options, please let me know.
=================================
Here is the link to a few of the posts from the other thread, where a few members view the Gog Magog war as occurring first..
.I do not find that view plausible or scriptural, and is actually the first I have heard of it on CF.
Please vote if you respond to the thread. Thanks.

What about the "Armageddon" and "Gog Magog" Wars in Revelation?

Views on Armageddon and Gog-Magog in Revelation

1. Amageddon happens first before Gog-Magog
2. Gog-Magog happens before Armageddon
3. They appear to be one and the same events
4. They are not the same events
5. I am not sure right now
6. Other

Douggg said:

Everything was to fight the spread of communism. Vietnam, Korea, Cuba, Berlin wall, nuclear race, etc. When is the last time you heard of any politician talking about communism? It died. One day, when the berlin wall came down.

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Yeah it’s dead alright. So dead that now we have a Russian puppet in the White House.

My parents and grandparents who sacrificed, fought and died for this country are spinning in their graves right now.

Douggg said:

Following the text of Ezekiel 38-39, walk me through the text of why I have it wrong. And why you may think this is part or all history.

Here is what I say, to happen during your lifetime...

Gog/Magog takes place - Ezekiel 38
Gog's army is destroyed - Ezekiel 39:4
Then the cleanup, followed by 7 years - Ezekiel 39:9-16
Then those 7 years
Then Armageddon - Ezekiel 39:17-20
Jesus returned to earth - Ezekiel 39:21-29.

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Dougg, you have to look at it from a strictly Jewish point of view & then you will see it? As of right now, you are looking at it from a mixed Christian & Jewish POV.

from the Jewish POV (which is not entirely scripturally correct, because it is not Christian)

• war before Gog war (the 'war that they are 'restored from' Ezekiel 38:8) (= 2nd Seal war for Christians)
  
• Gog attacks (6th Seal events, Dec 21, 2020; start of 1335 days = Matt 24:15-22)
  
• Gog defeated by the 'messiah'/ 'anointed one' of John 5:43/ 'YHWH' who sends down fire & hail (= the false prophet who sends down fire Revelation 13:13) (Trumpets 1-5; start 1290 days; Feb 4, 2021) (the John 5:43 messiah is the false prophet)
  
• start 7 months of clean-up (ends on Sept 1, 2021, 7 Hebrew months later on 24 Elul of Haggai 1:12-15, fake Joshua/ 'Yeshua' / aka 'Jesus' starts work on the new temple with a fake Zerubabbel)
• on 24 Kislev, Joshua aka the Jewish messiah/ aka the FP & Zerubabbel lay the foundation of the new temple (dusk Nov 27, 2021) (Haggai 2:18) (the real Joshua & Zerubabbel are the Christian 2 witnesses of the 2nd woe)
  
• Joshua, the Jewish messiah (aka the False Prophet) has to fight against a little horn of Daniel 7 &/ or 8 for 1260 days while he & Zerubabbel are building the new temple/ Ezekiel's temple. (the time, times, 1/2 time of Daniel 7:25 wherein the 'holy people' that are warred against are the False Prophet and his people! The 2 witnesses 1260 days equate to the little horn warring against the false prophet who is building the new temple.
• Messiah enters the temple when it is 'anointed' at the '77th anniversary of Jerusalem desolations aka May 14, 2025, Daniel 9:24's '70 '7's = 77) (= Psalm 68:17 ** note that the Jewish understanding of this is fulfilled at the Christian 6th Trumpet) (the false prophet says to worship the mortally head wounded individual of Zechariah 11:17) (this is the real Gog war, start 7 months of clean up to then arrive at the start of Hanukah, 24 Kislev, dusk Dec 13, 2025))

DavidPT said:

Maybe you see all of that in Revelation 19, but I don't. Revelation 19 is connected to the topic of this thread though, but not in the way you are describing how Revelation 19 should be interpreted. Even if your interpretation of Revelation 19 were correct, I can't see me ever adopting that view since I can't help but seeing the 2nd coming depicted in Revelation 19 instead.

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revelation 19:11-17

the Christly figure is in HEAVEN

the fires of judgement reach the EARTH only after the millennium at the GWTJ revelation 20:9+

shilohsfoal said:

Ezekiel 38:8 NIV: After many days you will be called to arms. In future years you will invade a land that has recovered from war, whose people were gathered from many nations to the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate. They had been brought out from the nations, and now all of them live in safety.

These people dwell safely ,without a care.They have no defences.They are a peacefull people.
Sure sound like its describing a people who have no enemies for a very long time.Sounds like a people such as these people.

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection! The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

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revelation 20:7-9 explicitly mentions gog and Magog.

Douggg said:

I didn't notice an outline walk through of Ezekiel 38-39... for me to respond to.

I gave my walk through outline of Ezekiel 38-39. If you think I am wrong, then provide your walk through outline - incorporating whatever beliefs you hold. Then I can look at it.

Give me something like this.

Israel will be living at rest and safely before Gog/Magog takes place, Ezekiel 38:8-11
Gog/Magog takes place - Ezekiel 38
Gog's army is destroyed - Ezekiel 39:4
Then the cleanup, followed by 7 years - Ezekiel 39:9-16
Then those 7 years (the great tribulation takes place during the second half of the 7 years)
Then Armageddon - Ezekiel 39:17-20
Jesus returned to earth - Ezekiel 39:21-29.

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revelation 20:7-9 = Gog and Magog


describes the GWTJ of revelation 20:9

DavidPT said:

Many, so not all, non Premils, such as amils, I think typically conclude that it's the other way around. If you are agreeing with what you stated here, this seems to indicate that you agree the thousand years happens after Christ's return then. If Armageddon happens in the end of this age, where Christ's return soon follows, and that Armegeddon is before the thousand year period, how can the thousand year period possibly not be after the 2nd coming in that case, thus Premil? It's hard for me to make heads or tales as to what camp you are mainly in. By camps I'm mainly referring to either Preterist, Amil, Premil, or Postmil. I think Preterists can also be Amil, but I'm not certain they can also be Premil. Not meaning partial Preterists though, since they can be both Amil and Premil.

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rev 19 occurs in heaven not on Earth

Douggg said:

Hi Erik, what are those 7 years in Ezekiel 39:9, before Armageddon in Ezekiel 39:17-20 ?

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Well, that's obviously after the army of Gog and Magog is defeated in Ezekiel. According to revelation 20. Versus 7 through 9. The defeat of Gog and Magog is brought about by fire from Heaven at the Great White throne judgment.

I put the pieces together and conclude that fire from heaven destroys Gog Magog so thoroughly that the survivors on Earth. Spend considerable time cleaning up and rebuilding afterwards.

Douggg said:

Where are you reading anything in the text about Gog between Ezekiel 39:17-29?

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I stated Ezekiel 39:17-20, not Ezekiel 39:17-29

Douggg said:

For those verses to be about Gog/Magog?

Gog's army was already destroyed in Ezekiel 39:4.

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Both Ezekiel 39:4 and Ezekiel 39:17 have birds and beasts eating an army on the mountains of Israel.

Ezekiel 39:4 On the mountains of Israel you will fall—you and all your troops and the nations with you. I will give you as food to every kind of ravenous bird and wild beast.

Ezekiel 39:17 And as for you, son of man, this is what the Lord GOD says: Call out to every kind of bird and to every beast of the field: ‘Assemble and come together from all around to the sacrificial feast that I am preparing for you, a great feast on the mountains of Israel.

Douggg said:

7 So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.

There are many in Israel who are non-religious, highly secular, which following Gog/Magog that will not be the case. Regarding the heathen, this imo is aimed directly as the muslims'claim of the God of the bible to be Allah of Islam. Which is a lie. Following Gog/Magog, Islam will be a discredited religion, and will end.

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not following you here, what does this have to do with the Ezekiel temple? Ezekiel 39:7 and Ezekiel 43:7 must be the same event for how can God's name no longer be profaned by his people in 2 different events?

Ezekiel 39:7 So I will make My holy name known among My people Israel and will no longer allow it to be profaned.

Ezekiel 43:7 and He said to me, “Son of man, this is the place of My throne and the place for the soles of My feet, where I will dwell among the Israelites forever. The house of Israel will never again defile My holy name.

Douggg said:

Ezekiel 39:29 takes place after Gog/Magog which takes place in the latter years (end times).

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Ezekiel 39:29 And I will no longer hide My face from them, for I will pour out My Spirit on the house of Israel,’ declares the Lord GOD.”

This is your opinion, but you have not backed it up with scripture.

See how I can provide NT scripture that states the "in the last days" God will pour out his spirit? See how I can provide NT scripture of the Holy Spirit being poured out at Pentecost in the 1st century, specifically on Israel?

Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.

Acts 2:15-17 These men are not drunk as you suppose. It is only the third hour of the day! No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel: ‘In the last days, God says, I will pour out My Spirit on all people.

Erik Nelson said:

revelation 20:7-9 = Gog and Magog

"Then Armageddon - Ezekiel 39:17-20
Jesus returned to earth - Ezekiel 39:21-29"​

describes the GWTJ of revelation 20:9

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Hello Eric. Could I please get you and other members to vote on my new poll thread concerning Armageddon and Gog Magog? Thanks.

What about the "Armageddon" and "Gog Magog" Wars in Revelation?

Views on Armageddon and Gog-Magog in Revelation

1. 
   Amageddon happens first before Gog-Magog
   3 vote(s)
   33.3%
2. Gog-Magog happens before Armageddon
   0 vote(s)
   0.0%
3. *
   They appear to be one and the same events
   1 vote(s)
   11.1%
4. They are not the same events
   3 vote(s)
   33.3%
5. I am not sure right now
   1 vote(s)
   11.1%
6. Other
   3 vote(s)
   33.3%

======================================================

I just ran across an old thread on this same topic and it also had a poll thread.
Interesting results:

Armegeddon and Gog-magog same event?

1. 
   I view them as the same event
   15 vote(s)
   21.7%
2. I view them as different events
   43 vote(s)
   62.3%
3. I am not sure
   7 vote(s)
   10.1%
4. Does it really matter?
   4 vote(s)
   5.8%

Douggg said:

I can also point to Peter making "use" of scripture to make a point. Peter made use out of Psalms 2 regarding why do the heathen rage and image a vain thing, as he was talking against the Jewish religious leaders (in Acts 4:5-6) in Acts 4:25-28. But what Peter was saying was out of context of Psalms 2.

What you are saying, referreing to Acts, doesn't change anything about what is said in the context of Ezekiel 38-39, Ezekiel 39:29 specifically.

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Why focus on just 2 chapters of Ezekiel.
This writer found at least 20 allusions from Ezekiel in Revelation, but I am willing to bet there are perhaps 100s more.

THE SYMBOLISM IN BOOK OF REVELATION

The book of Ezekiel follows Revelation all the way through... AND DEALS WITH JERUSALEM!!
Ezekiel 16 calls Jerusalem the harlot, just Like Revelation does in chapter 17 and 18. And Rev 18:24 matches Jesus words about Jerusalem in Matthew 23:35.

I do not have time to note every single parallel. The two books identify with each other all the way through! Even to Ezekiel 5 where the city is divided three ways by representation of Ezekiel's HAIR that is 1/3 burnt, 1/3 cast to the wind and 1/3 part smitten with a knife. Ever read of a CITY divided into THREE PARTS during an earthquake in Revelation? HINT HINT.

Ezekiel ends with a HUGE TEMPLE with a river coming out of it, with trees on either side whose leaves are medicine for the nations and the fruit comes forth in her months. (Read Ezekiel 47). Revelation has ONE TREE, with leaves and fruit in the precise same manner.

And the City in Revelation is ONE HUGE MOST HOLY PLACE. It is a cube, just as the ORACLE, or most holy place was in 1 Kings 6:20. And the river is there with the tree of life and the fruit.

Why many trees in Ezekiel 47, and only one tree in Rev 22:1? Because it is Christ. The tree has many branches. ,Psalm 1:3 speaks about saints as trees planted BY THE WATER (the river of life in Rev 22), whose leaf does not whither, and fruit is always there. Note that leaves and fruit were distinctly noted in Rev 22:1 and Ezek 47:12?

Its Christ and the church. Isaiah calls us trees of righteousness. This is analogous to John 15's Vine and branches.
Someone pointed this out to me:

Awesome!

EZEKIEL AND REVELATION PARALLEL

1. THRONE VISION - (Rev 4./Ezek 1).
2. THE BOOK (Rev 5/Ezek 2-3)
3. THE PLAGUES (Rev 6:1-8/Ezek 5).
4. Slain Beneath the Altar (Rev. 6:9-11/Ezek. 6)
5. WRATH OF GOD (Rev 6:12-17/Ezek 7).
6. SEAL ON SAINTS' FOREHEADS (Rev 7/Ezek 9)
7. COALS FROM ALTAR (Rev. 8/Ezek 10).
8. NO MORE DELAY (Rev. 10:1-7/Ezek 12).
9. EATING THE BOOK (Rev 10:8-11/Ezek. 2)
11. MEASURING THE TEMPLE (Rev. 11:1-2/Ezek. 40-43)
11. JERUSALEM AND SODOM (Rev. 11:8/Ezek 16)
12. CUP OF WRATH (Rev. 14/Ezek. 23).
13. VINE OF THE LAND (Rev. 14:18-20/Ezek 15)
14. GREAT HARLOT (Rev 17-18/Ezek. 16, 23).
15. LAMENT OVER THE CITY (Rev. 18/Ezek 27)
16. SCAVENGER'S FEAST (Rev. 19/Ezek 39)
17. FIRST RESURRECTION (Rev 20:4-6/Ezek 37).
18 BATTLE WITH GOG AND MAGOG (Rev. 20:7-9/Ezek 38-39)
19. NEW JERUSALEM (Rev 21/Ezek 40-48)
20. RIVER OF LIFE (Rev 22/Ezek 47)

PATTERN OF OLD TESTAMENT HISTORY IN LETTERS TO SEVEN CHURCHES

And the seven churches and their letters show a parallel to the entire Old Testament period. So we see how the Old was a shadow of the New.

EPHESUS

This is the GARDEN PICTURE.

Jesus is in the midst of the candlesticks as in the Garden trees. And The angel is commended for guarding the church against error, as Adam was to guard or keep the Garden. But the angel left his first love, as Adam had fallen. And the candlestick would be removed, as Adam was removed from the Garden, if they did not repent. And the Garden remains open to theovercomer, as Jesus tells the overcomers that they may eat of the fruit of life.

SMYRNA

This is the period following the Garden when the Patriarchs lived. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph up to Moses.

Isaac and Joseph both experienced a sort of death come to life again. Isaac was resurrected in a sense from the altar, since Abraham fully intended to slay him and have God resurrect him to fulfill the promise of having seed from Isaac. Josephwas left as dead, in Jacob's mind, when the boys sold him, and he "arose" to rule in Egypt. Smyrna's church was poor yet rich, like the "fathers' who lived as strangers in the land. They would be imprisoned as Joseph was. And in Moses' day Aaron wore a crown of life as high priest. And the tribulation paralleled the plagues in Egypt they endured.

PERGAMOS

Wilderness journey from Egypt.

The wilderness is likened to an abode of devils, just as Pergamos' believers were where satan's seat was. During the Exodus, Balaam and Balak were resisting, just as is mentioned to this church. The angel of the Lord stood ready to smite Balaam with a sword. Balaam was slain with the sword by Phinehas the priest in Numbers 31. The enemies of this church would be smitten with the sword of God's mouth. And the overcomers are the ones who go into the most holy place to eat the hidden manna from the ark inside there!!

THYATIRA

This corresponds to the age after the exodus when Israel had a monarchy and brings in David's kingdom.

Jesus calls himself Son of God, as is parallel in David (Read Psalm 2:7, and many more Psalms, where David speaks of himself in foreshadow of Son of God). The church tolerated Jezebel, a wicked queen in the time of the monarchs of Israel. 3.5 years of tribulation occurred in her day due to backsliding, and this is parallel, of course, with the 3.5 years mentioned throughout Revelation. Then it ends with ruling with a rod of iron, which is a Psalm of David (2:9).

SARDIS

End of the monarchy in Israel.

The people of God were defeated and taken captive into Babylon. Church thinks its alive but really dead. A few people are faithful. Like a remnant that would come out of Babylon.

PHILADELPHIA

Return from Exile in Babylon with Ezra and Nehemiah.

They rebuilt the temple, which is noted in this letter to this church. But there is a synagogue of satan. False Jews fought Ezra and Nehemiah in Ezra 4 and Neh. 4, 6 and 13. An hour of testing would come paralleled by Antiochus Epiphanes who came after the old testament period as prophesied in Dan 8 and 11, witnessed by the historical, but uninspired, book called Maccabees. New Jerusalem was the reward of the overcomers... a new temple!

LAODICAEA

Last Days from time of Jesus when Pharisees and scribes ruled. They bragged of self-sufficiency. They were naked and poor! Jesus said they bwoulde spewed out, just as God would devastate Jerusalem 40 years after killing Jesus. They must repent and sup with Jesus, as in the communion supper of bread and wine. They would rule with Jesus on his throne, as indicated by the entire church age.

In the letter to the church at Ephesus, which did exist in the days John wrote the book of Revelation, Jesus tells this specific church:
========================================

Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament

Here are some of the ones I have come up with. Please feel free to add or comment on them.

Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Books in Daniel Daniel 7:9 and 11:10.
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Cried and joy Temple/City: Ezra 3:12,13 and Reve 18:18, 19:4
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Ear to hear: Isaiah 6:9,10 and Matt 13:15, Reve 2,3,13
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Holy Holy Holy Isaiah 6:6 and Revelation 4:8
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Jericho, Priest and Trumpets: Joshua 6:4, Hebrews 11:30, Matt 24:31, Reve 8:6
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Lift hands to heaven and swore..: Daniel 2:7 and Reve 10:5
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Light Revelation to Israel and Nations: Isaiah 9:2, Luke 2:32, Reve 1:1
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Moses and Elijah, fire falling, as is also seen in Revelation.
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Moses and Elijah
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Mountain of fire cast into Sea
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Pierced: Zech 12:10 and Reve 1:7
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Sacrifice/Supper of God: Ezek 39:17 and Reve 19:17
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Sanctuary/Tabernacle filled with smoke
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Silence/Hush: Zech 1:7, 2:13 and Reve 8:1
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Sodom and Egypt: Matt 2:15, Reve 11:8
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Song of Moses: Exodus 15:1 and Revelation 15:3
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Spirit lifting, taking Ezekiel and John
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Stars 7
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Tree of Life and Garden: Genesis 3:24 and Reve 2:7
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Whip.........Nahum 3:2, John 2:15,

claninja said:

Ezekiel 39:29 And I will no longer hide My face from them, for I will pour out My Spirit on the house of Israel,’ declares the Lord GOD.”

This is your opinion, but you have not backed it up with scripture.

See how I can provide NT scripture that states the "in the last days" God will pour out his spirit? See how I can provide NT scripture of the Holy Spirit being poured out at Pentecost in the 1st century, specifically on Israel?

Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.

Acts 2:15-17 These men are not drunk as you suppose. It is only the third hour of the day! No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel: ‘In the last days, God says, I will pour out My Spirit on all people.

Click to expand...

You make a good point, yet in order for you to be correct though, you have to be able to prove Gog had already been defeated before the event recorded in Acts 2 took place. Ezekiel 39 makes it abundantly clear that the fulfillment of Ezekiel 39:29 is after that of the defeat of Gog, and not before the defeat of Gog. As to Gog himself, let's look at something here.

Ezekiel 39:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog.

This clearly indicates Gog and his multitude are someone that can physically die and that can be buried in graves. That seems to leave out the possibility that Gog might not even be human, but might be meaning satan, or a demon, etc. Only humans can die and are in need of burial after that. The text doesn't say they shall bury just Gog's multitude, the text indicates they shall bury both Gog and all his multitude. And if that is to be taken literally, how can Gog not be human?

Douggg said:

My point is there is nothing about Gog after Ezekiel 39:16.

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I disagree, as Ezekiel 39:4 matches Ezekiel 39:17.

Douggg said:

Yes, but it doesn't mean the same event.

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That's just poor logic. They are both within the same context of Gog/Magog. why would they not be the same event, if they in fact match?

Douggg said:

The Gog/Magog events will bring them of the Jews in Israel who are currently cold toward God to desire
Him, but they will still not know him as being Jesus. In Ezekiel 39:7.

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this seems to be your own personal interpretation, as scripture does not say that.

Douggg said:

After Armageddon, in Ezekiel 39:17-20, and having come to believe upon Jesus in the 7 years following Gog/Magog, they will know Jesus as the Lord their God.

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seems to be another personal interpretation.

Douggg said:

Ezekiel 39:21 is Jesus returned to this earth, and is speaking in the text of Ezekiel 39:21-29. And corresponds to Ezekiel 43:7.

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I disagree, Ezekiel 39:7 is clearly referenced in Ezekiel 43:7.

Under the new covenant, can people no longer profane God if they don't believe in Christ?

Ezekiel 39:7 So I will make My holy name known among My people Israel and will no longer allow it to be profaned.

Ezekiel 43:7 and He said to me, “Son of man, this is the place of My throne and the place for the soles of My feet, where I will dwell among the Israelites forever. The house of Israel will never again defile My holy name—neither they nor their kings—by their prostitution and by the funeral offeringsb for their kings at their deaths