What did Jesus mean when He told Peter he was the rock he would build his church upon?

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

Yes, his status as an apostle

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And possibly his status as the first Apostle.

Erik Nelson said:

I'm not forcing any interpretation on anything. Who else besides Simon Peter was ever referred to by the messianic term ROCK? Petra. G4073.

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Who else was termed "sons of thunder"? Were James and John really the offspring of thunder? It was a nickname...

Erik Nelson said:

And possibly his status as the first Apostle.

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Even IF so, it has nothing to do with the RCC, that is my point.

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

Even IF so, it has nothing to do with the RCC, that is my point.

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Well, why not?

Erik Nelson said:

Where does that come from?

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Matthew 16:23

Erik Nelson said:

Who was?

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Nathanael
John 1:49

Erik Nelson said:

Well, why not?

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Why would it? Because the RCC says so?

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

Matthew 16:23

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Simon being called "rock" was dependent on what he was confessing. We see that when Simon tries to argue against Christ's passion, he is instead named "Satan"

Erik Nelson said:

That's the most natural interpretation of this verse.

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That is not the consensus of the Church Fathers. The most common interpretation is that Simon's confession is the rock Christ is referring to.

Erik Nelson said:

So Jesus returns him to the same status, he had before. That night. And the status, he had before that night was very arguably. Exalted and Supreme. To some extent.

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Peter's role is to serve his brothers, not to be exalted over them.
Luke 22:31-32

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

Matthew 16:23

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all the apostles were confused, Peter sought to save the messiah from his fate, others sought their own status advancement... So this doesn't demote Peter relative to other apostles

prodromos said:

That is not the consensus of the Church Fathers. The most common interpretation is that Simon's confession is the rock Christ is referring to.

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well, everyone is eager to presume for themselves the preeminent status of Peter?

Peter's role is to serve his brothers, not to be exalted over them.
Luke 22:31-32

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yes, Luke 22:31-32 = John 21:17
both show Peter's leadership role

prodromos said:

Nathanael
John 1:49

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true, but Andrew and Peter had already believed in John 1:40-42

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

Why would it? Because the RCC says so?

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are you comparing the 2000 year old RCC to modern novel traditions?

prodromos said:

Simon being called "rock" was dependent on what he was confessing. We see that when Simon tries to argue against Christ's passion, he is instead named "Satan"

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yes, and when he turned back, forgiven, he was to strengthen and nourish the Church, Luke 22:31-32 = John 21:17

Erik Nelson said:

well, everyone is eager to presume for themselves the preeminent status of Peter?

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Especially the bishop of Rome

yes, Luke 22:31-32 = John 21:17
both show Peter's leadership role

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You must be reading a different Bible to me then.

true, but Andrew and Peter had already believed in John 1:40-42

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Andrew, certainly, but Peter has said nothing to indicate what he believes at this stage.

prodromos said:

Especially the bishop of Rome

You must be reading a different Bible to me then.

Andrew, certainly, but Peter has said nothing to indicate what he believes at this stage.

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actions speak louder than words

Peter dropped everything and followed Andrew because he accepted Andrew's statement to have found the Messiah

his belief is why he specifically was charged with feeding Jesus' sheep and strengthen his brothers, Luke 22:31-32 = John 21:17

Erik Nelson said:

yes, and when he turned back, forgiven, he was to strengthen and nourish the Church, Luke 22:31-32 = John 21:17

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And you have completely missed the point (or perhaps it is deliberate avoidance )

prodromos said:

And you have completely missed the point (or perhaps it is deliberate avoidance )

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please spell it out?

Lybrah said:

Many claim that because Jesus said that to Peter, that Peter became the first pope and that proves the Roman Catholic Church is the only true Christian church. Thoughts?

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No

Peter became the first confessing witness. Peter declared who Jesus is and it’s on that confession of Christ the true body/church would be built

Erik Nelson said:

actions speak louder than words

Peter dropped everything and followed Andrew because he accepted Andrew's statement to have found the Messiah

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That is not the same as believing He was the Son of God.

his belief is why he specifically was charged with feeding Jesus' sheep and strengthen his brothers, Luke 22:31-32 = John 21:17

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All the Apostles had the role of feeding Christ's sheep. Only Peter had denied Christ and needed reinstating. Note that Jesus asks him first, "Do you love me more than these?", recalling Peter declaring, “Though they all fall away because of you, I will never fall away.”
Peter will never put himself above the other Apostles again, having been greatly humbled by his failing.

Strengthening his brothers is a service. It is not leading.

Erik Nelson said:

please spell it out?

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His being called "rock" was contingent on his confession of Christ as the Son of God. Peter is the archetype of the Apostles, and by extension the bishops. All are "rock" who confess Christ.