Is Continuationism or Cessationism a hard doctrine to prove?

Saint Steven

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I don’t know for sure if speaking in tongues or healing or prophesying has ceased but from what I see in the scriptures it appears to be automatically given to those who are chosen, not necessarily something they sought after. I don’t see anything that says we must try to speak in tongues or prophesy. Personally I have never experienced any of these gifts. I don’t believe they are necessary to possess the indwelling Holy Spirit. So I just love and honor God and if He deems that I am to receive these gifts then so be it. I don’t try to make it happen but I don’t deny it may be possible for some to possess these gifts.
1 Corinthians 12:31
Now eagerly desire the greater gifts. ...

1 Corinthians 14:1
Follow the way of love and eagerly desire gifts of the Spirit, especially prophecy.
 
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Saint Steven

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What is the hoop you jumped through to activate your salvation?
The hoop was the gift. I didn't jump until I received it.

That's why everyone hates birthdays and Christmas.
Opening gifts is such hard work. (groan)
"Do we have to?" No, you get to.
 
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Saint Steven

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“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” (1 Corinthians 2:14)

“He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.” (Matthew 16:15–17)
Is that supposed to prove that the Apostles didn't operate in spiritual gifts?
 
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Saint Steven

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If the God presented by Calvinism is the bibical God, (and I believe it is), you hate him and prefer the Arminian version instead.
It's hard to imagine anything more divisive than those of one doctrinal opinion claiming their opponents hate God.
 
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Dave L

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It's hard to imagine anything more divisive than those of one doctrinal opinion claiming their opponents hate God.
It's true. We have several different Christs presented by different denominations.
 
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BNR32FAN

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= salvation for the self-righteous only. God saves those he foresaw could not believe and turned them into believers through the new birth.

Are your saying some can believe without His election? All men will be drawn to Christ after His resurrection. They will be judged according to whether or not they believe. According to Calvinism no one can believe unless God has chosen them, so why are they judged and condemned to the lake of fire for not believing if God has made them incapable of believing? God loves the world and sent Jesus so that the world may be saved. God desires all men to repent and be saved so if He is choosing who will be saved and who won’t then how does He judge and condemn those who He loves and wants to repent and be saved by making them incapable of doing so? God calls us and enables us to repent and believe at the time He chooses to and it is up to us whether or not to accept His gracious gift or not.
 
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Dave L

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Are your saying some can believe without His election? All men will be drawn to Christ after His resurrection. They will be judged according to whether or not they believe. According to Calvinism no one can believe unless God has chosen them, so why are they judged and condemned to the lake of fire for not believing if God has made them incapable of believing? God loves the world and sent Jesus so that the world may be saved. God desires all men to repent and be saved so if He is choosing who will be saved and who won’t then how does He judge and condemn those who He loves and wants to repent and be saved by making them incapable of doing so? God calls us and enables us to repent and believe at the time He chooses to and it is up to us whether or not to accept His gracious gift or not.
God created all for his glory. Apart from sin there is no grace, mercy, righteousness, justice, wrath, all attributes of God. So God reveals himself against the backdrop of sin. Eternal mercy and eternal wrath show the magnitude of sin and what it deserves. And the magnitude of grace and what it means. All who want to be saved by grace, are, or they would not want to be saved. All who do not want to be saved are not.
 
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BNR32FAN

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God created all for his glory. Apart from sin there is no grace, mercy, righteousness, justice, wrath, all attributes of God. So God reveals himself against the backdrop of sin. Eternal mercy and eternal wrath show the magnitude of sin and what it deserves. And the magnitude of grace and what it means. All who want to be saved by grace, are, or they would not want to be saved. All who do not want to be saved are not.

That’s an interesting approach.
 
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BNR32FAN

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God created all for his glory. Apart from sin there is no grace, mercy, righteousness, justice, wrath, all attributes of God. So God reveals himself against the backdrop of sin. Eternal mercy and eternal wrath show the magnitude of sin and what it deserves. And the magnitude of grace and what it means. All who want to be saved by grace, are, or they would not want to be saved. All who do not want to be saved are not.

What about Matthew 7:21-23, or Matthew 25,31-46? These people who wanted to be saved were condemned.
 
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Dave L

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What about Matthew 7:21-23, or Matthew 25,31-46? These people who wanted to be saved were condemned.
They did not want the Christ of the bible to save them. Most hate him. They wanted salvation on their terms.
 
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Saint Steven

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It's true. We have several different Christs presented by different denominations.
Or, the same Christ presented in different ways by different denominations.
I prefer the latter. (obviously)
 
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Dave L

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Or, the same Christ presented in different ways by different denominations.
I prefer the latter. (obviously)
The Arminian Christ and Calvinistic Christ are opposites when we consider sin and grace.
 
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Saint Steven

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Two totally different Christ's in the matter of how God saves people.
I'm sure that both sides have biblical support for their positions. Are you claiming that is not true?

You seem to be seeing enemies where you should be seeing family.
 
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Dave L

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I'm sure that both sides have biblical support for their positions. Are you claiming that is not true?

You seem to be seeing enemies where you should be seeing family.
I was an Arminian having been taught only that position. But I was born again and saved in spite of it. Just as many in cults are saved in spite of their understanding. But when I heard Limited Atonement for the first time, I began studying my beliefs as objectively as possible to see how many stood up to scripture. As a result I believe totally different today in several areas.
 
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Saint Steven

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I was an Arminian having been taught only that position. But I was born again and saved in spite of it. Just as many in cults are saved in spite of their understanding. But when I heard Limited Atonement for the first time, I began studying my beliefs as objectively as possible to see how many stood up to scripture. As a result I believe totally different today in several areas.
There you go.
We are saved by God, not by "correct" doctrine.
Within reason, obviously.
 
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Saint Steven

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But if you do not receive a love for the truth, God will send you strong delusion.
A "love for truth"?
Defined as doctrinal hair-splitting?
That doesn't seem right. What are you saying?
 
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Dave L

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A "love for truth"?
Defined as doctrinal hair-splitting?
That doesn't seem right. What are you saying?
Let's look at this. There are only 3 possibilities on how God saves people. Only one can be true.

1) God alone saves people by grace, works follow because of the new nature.

2) People save themselves with God's help, by grace and works (obedience).

3) People alone save themselves by works (obedience).
 
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