Why Don't Christian's Witness About Jesus?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Thess

Well-Known Member
Oct 31, 2018
756
319
56
Chelan
✟19,864.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Divorced
You have not asked already.

My procedure is to talk to people I do not know on shopping centre benches, cafe tables, out in the streets and if they are curious about Christianity I talk to them about Jesus if not then we chat about something else but sometimes the something else leads to Jesus.

When people are interested then I spend time leading them through core Christian teachings.

If they continue in their interest I spend time on whatever religious issues they want to know about and I do not hesitate to take them to church and to help them with any questions arising from church.

Now, why did you ask?

That's outstanding! Very inspiring to see what the Spirit has enabled you to do. I'd love to hang out and see that in action.

As for why I asked, it's because that's what this thread is about.
 
Upvote 0

Thess

Well-Known Member
Oct 31, 2018
756
319
56
Chelan
✟19,864.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Divorced
I’m 37 and I’ve been approached way more than twice, and I’m sure more times than that where I didn’t noticed I was being approached. I don’t think it means anything grand or profound... I think it’s just one of those things.

I’ve been approached by people who are curious about my faith after spending time with me, which is fine. I do go out seeking people but I’d they seek me then whatever.

That's awesome, really. I take advantage of every opportunity to display the very best character that I am able. I'll be getting back into the work force soon and can't wait to model my new character set. I've been self-employed since the indwelling Spirit shook my world into proper order. With a completely new mind, I know exactly how I'll be with new co-workers....I really can't wait.

Nice job!
 
Upvote 0

Thess

Well-Known Member
Oct 31, 2018
756
319
56
Chelan
✟19,864.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Divorced
You might consider this carping about terminology, but its a fact in any case:

You can't witness about Jesus, because you didn't witness Jesus.

All you can do is tell people what you think the Bible says about Jesus. Your words have no authority. They are not witness. You're not an eyewitness.

So when people make these comparisons like "The apostles were on fire for the Lord! Going everywhere witnessing about Jesus! But we don't approach people to witness." Well yeah, considering they were actual witnesses. We, at best, are ambassadors for a book. A book people know exists, and reject. So all we can do is go "Hey, you know that book you reject...maybe you should give it a second chance?" Considering how weak that is, its no wonder people aren't that interested in doing it.

I have felt the Raw, Almighty Power of God, enough Holy Power to part an entire sea....lightheaded just thinking about it. If I had felt any more of His unbelievable Power, I would have been physically altered. His Peace And Love ALONE are more powerful than our minds can imagine, and the amount of His Power that He Graciously (powerfully) allowed me to experience was only that of a mustard seed. He didn't give me the Holy Rubberstamp....I just started taking Him and this amazing opportunity that is life much, much more seriously. I listened to God, did what He told me to do and later began studying His Word with an Illuminated mind, and He confirmed Himself by showing me His teachings that He delivered to me through the Gift of the Holy Spirit.

Not only am I a witness, but I am in God and God is in me. Jesus is my Brother and it is impossible for me to ever become unshaken. I am so....unbelievably grateful.
 
Upvote 0

Thess

Well-Known Member
Oct 31, 2018
756
319
56
Chelan
✟19,864.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Divorced
Show me where I said any of that? I would never tell anyone any such thing. Go back and read our discussion; I asked you for clarification on your OP and you proceeded to equate your own words with inspired Scripture and to infer that because I couldn’t understand what you wrote, I do not have the Holy Spirit and therefore am not saved.

Yes, everyone should “test” all things, but by the word of God, not their own words. If another person simply asks for an explanation to what you have written, that does not mean they are not a fellow believer.

I am now done with this exchange as from the very beginning you have been hostile and have refused to answer honest questions regarding your own words. Instead you have chosen to tell me I am not truly a saved believer and that I don’t understand God’s word because I didn’t understand your OP.

Bizarre.

I wish you all the best.

~ Amariselle

Nice. Someone listed this as "Friendly", and that after the label of "bizarre". I've been praying that people would come at me so that I could be tested and refined....The Lord has a sense of humor.

Now, back to those that are suffering because we all need to somehow do a better job of reaching souls. No reason to leave, in fact I have no recollection of anything said as I don't care about that stuff. I just want to see if we, as a group, can clearly define some things about what is happening, why things are the way they are and what we can do about it. I think you should stay and see if our efforts can help us all, including me, become better soldiers for God. Seriously....stay.
 
Upvote 0

Thess

Well-Known Member
Oct 31, 2018
756
319
56
Chelan
✟19,864.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Divorced
But even this "what Jesus has done for me" thing is a stretch. Its not like you were sitting blind on the street in the 1st century and Jesus healed your eye sight and you went and told what Jesus had OBJECTIVELY done for you. People may tell a story how they were drug addicts and heard about Jesus and they gave up the drugs, but its SUBJECTIVE. They can't witness that Jesus did it. They did it in response to what they heard about Jesus. People who convert to Judaism can make the same claim that Moses healed them of drug addiction, i.e. that some rabbi preached Judaism to them and they gave up drugs. In reality, you're witnessing that a particular religious idea helped you get motivated to change yourself, not that Jesus himself objectively actively did anything. So, no, even in this sense of witnessing "what Jesus has done for me" I don't believe its possible to "witness" anything about Jesus. All you can do is give people your subjective interpretation of how you feel Jesus was actively and objectively involved in a change in your lifestyle that other people will look at and interpret differently, i.e. as that your belief in Jesus helped you find the motivation for self improvement, but he really wasn't there doing anything actively.

Nice job. Stay strong....it gets rough in here. (I come here for being tested....keeps me sharp.)
 
Upvote 0

Thess

Well-Known Member
Oct 31, 2018
756
319
56
Chelan
✟19,864.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Divorced
OK, so to recap:

I ask you to clarify what you say about confidence being or not being from the Lord in a non-accusatory way, and you give what you call Biblical examples. I then demonstrate from those same incidents in Scripture that confidence came from the Lord, and your response is to tell me that I need to open my eyes without any Biblical evidence to prove your point. You earlier accused me of hostility which I was not feeling, then later called me a "keyboard warrior" and then asked for honor and respect for yourself.

The hostility and aggression is coming entirely from you. If you want to come across as credibly wise, you should instead make a clear Biblical case for why you don't believe confidence comes from the Lord despite the Biblical examples in favor of him giving confidence to his prophets and apostles, and in the garden of Gesthemane, Christ. It also would have helped your case if you had showed why confidence not coming from the Lord means that people who don't witness very much are to blame for it. It seems more of an indictment on someone who is afraid to witness if confidence comes from the Lord, and the non-witness is just leaving that on the table. Therefore, your original post doesn't make a whole lot of sense. James 3:13-18 shows us what Godly wisdom looks like as opposed to worldly wisdom. I have not seen Godly wisdom in your posts on this thread. I'm open to receiving Godly wisdom, but you haven't demonstrated it. Take the plank out of your eye. If you want my help to pull it out, I'm happy to help however I can.

I couldn't possibly disagree with you more and to deal with each aspect of your message is just too much to take on....this is just far too simple of a topic. Just because you're not understanding doesn't mean that I have a plank in my eye. I know my heart, as does God and I can assure you that you've mis-read me. I may have mis-read you; I've done it before. But who cares? I don't care if you've mis-read me....I just keep movin' on. It's no big deal. I'm sure that if you contribute something constructive, I'd love it just as I've loved what the Pastor f 18 years had to say. Didn't seem to have any problem with that fellah.

As for confidence is not from the Lord, you actually taught that confidence is NOT from the Lord with your own words. Seriously, it's really that simple. Yes, I could give you a bookfull of material that I already have, but I'm just asking you to put a little thought into it. I'm not being rude....I just want you to discover the light on your own if possible. Thinking is good for Christians.
 
Upvote 0

Thess

Well-Known Member
Oct 31, 2018
756
319
56
Chelan
✟19,864.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Divorced
Well, this is the most confusing thread I’ve seen on here in awhile.

And an English Major isn't even required. What would help to interpret the posts that no one has "liked" (not only referring to mine, but including the 18 year seasoned Pastor - what a shame!) would be the Holy Spirit. That's how it works. The Spirit recognizes itself in other believers, so the natural instinct is to listen to each other, to teach each other and even rebuke one another. But the first evidence of a true believer is a love for the lost as well as a love for the true Brethren. True Christians are easily marked by the behavior that only the Spirit produces. I was once a terrible, wretched human being....but because of the Holy Spirit and the amount of effort and work that has gone into me, I have beaten myself into a change so much so that I do not hardly recall how I thought, even just three years ago. Romans 12:2....100%.

Interesting....I've never heard one story of anyone going from pure wretchedness to righteousness, a true Romans 12:2 story. We're not witnessing for the same reasons that no one shares their own, personal Romans 12:2 Holy Transformation by the Power of God, lest we boast of ourselves. No one....ever.

That's what's confusing to me, and that's the discussion that I'm trying to get people to engage in, instead of biting my heels.
 
Upvote 0

Thess

Well-Known Member
Oct 31, 2018
756
319
56
Chelan
✟19,864.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Divorced
The way we live our life, how we interact and help others is our main witness. Verbally telling others about Christ, going to chursh, bible study etc are just tiny parts of witnessing.

Love is an action word....these people need us! There is so much bloody suffering going on in the world. We've at least got to start being nice to each other. Thank you!
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Thess

Well-Known Member
Oct 31, 2018
756
319
56
Chelan
✟19,864.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Divorced
interesting that some posters have responded similar to my couple of posts and received positive feedback
yet, I received this:




hope that your response to people IRL is more patient cause if you easily lose patience and are not understanding, it'll be difficult to reach others

also, many people have limited attention spans today, so patience is needed

I like that. I like what you wrote about people having limited attention spans. That really is a fair point and I'm glad that you made it. I like how you're thinking of others that are suffering in that way. I respect that very much. You're absolutely right as I need to consider others as more important than myself!

Today alone I must have put in at least 12 hours of bible study (collecting verses and placing them into Excel for manipulation), and every time I part from the study I come here for "relief", though my fingers are just aching. The point is, is that as I paraphrase and type commentary on so many passages, my fingers are ready and willing to basically make direct quotes without making quotes when I come here and write. It's kind of a bizarre thing that I've had to awaken myself to. I appreciate the feedback, a lot. I came here to be refined and it's working....believe me. I need each of you and hate no one.

I'm nearing a 3 year period of training by God and it's just magically coming together, and closing, very soon. I can see that God is refining me very hard, here, with you good people to help me, as He is showing me that kindness and humility will be of the essence as I continue to learn what it is to be a model of Jesus Christ, beginning within a couple of months. All that matters to me are the hearts of the lost and the suffering brothers and sisters.
 
Upvote 0

Thess

Well-Known Member
Oct 31, 2018
756
319
56
Chelan
✟19,864.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Divorced
someone invited me to their church when in my teens
mostly young people and people giving testimonies
people standing up telling about being delivered from drugs

felt didn't belong because didn't have a delivery from drugs/alcohol story since never tried drugs/didn't drink

felt odd to be there as it seemed to me everyone had a "powerful life changing story" and it seemed one needed such a powerful story to fit in at that church

Maybe it didn't seem right because YOU WERE! Maybe what was going on in that church was fowl. Think about it....pagens become "delivered" from drugs. That's not necessarily a miracle. If the "miracle" can happen to Pagen that doesn't even believe, then we have to be cautious about labeling that "gift" as an actual deliverance.

God doesn't play silly games, so when He delivers, man....trust me, you'll know it. The thing is, is that God has got to see that He can trust us with something huge. God sent me to prenent a man from being murdered by mutilation. I didn't want to go because the soon to be murderer threatened to do the same to me. Being gutted alive to watch it is not my idea of a good anything. But that's what I was facing. I cried and didn't want anything to do with this stuff, but I went anyway. God trusted me an d He knew that I'd go....and I did. God rewarded me with the indwelling Holy Spirit, because I obeyed when it was life and death and I did all that the Father asked of me. It was unbelievable. And now that I see that God rewards those who do well with what He entrusts, I offer myself even more than ever so that He will entrust me with more, and all that I want to do is just get out there and start to really reach people. My dreams are huge, goals are massive, but as God gives me the ability, I will do whever He commands of me.

I believe in you....
 
Upvote 0

Thess

Well-Known Member
Oct 31, 2018
756
319
56
Chelan
✟19,864.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Divorced
Have you heard The Gospel? If so, did you believe?
And if you did believe, and called, you too are free to preach The Gospel as well

I’m confused why you are blaming Christians for your hearing the Gospel only two times in your life

Perhaps it would be well to read what's previously written. My fingers are worn out. I'm not blaming any Christians for anything....I'm blaming false teachers, which God clearly detests, and so should we.
 
Upvote 0

miknik5

"Let not your heart be troubled"
Jun 9, 2016
15,725
2,781
USA
✟101,174.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Perhaps it would be well to read what's previously written. My fingers are worn out. I'm not blaming any Christians for anything....I'm blaming false teachers, which God clearly detests, and so should we.
Yes. I agree. I was about to edit my post saying maybe I misunderstood and didn’t have the full picture

However I would appreciate it if you could respond to my question about the whole gospel
 
Upvote 0

miknik5

"Let not your heart be troubled"
Jun 9, 2016
15,725
2,781
USA
✟101,174.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Perhaps it would be well to read what's previously written. My fingers are worn out. I'm not blaming any Christians for anything....I'm blaming false teachers, which God clearly detests, and so should we.
That wasn’t how your thread sounded

Please forgive me but your opening paragraph sounded as if you were accusing Christians of not teaching at all. Not going out and witnessing and sharing the gospel
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

miknik5

"Let not your heart be troubled"
Jun 9, 2016
15,725
2,781
USA
✟101,174.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
"My community" - I'm approaching 52. It's naive to think that I've only lived in one spot my entire life. Would you like to hear from an 81 year old man who is my former Sunday School teacher, also the Piano Player for our church, arranged and played masterful piano for the Sound Waves from the former Christian College, Puget Sound Christian College of the Bible. This man will tell you that NO ONE has ever tried to give him the Gospel of Jesus Christ! He's been in the church his entire life yet no one has ever approached him. And he, too, has been deceived, for this man has never witnessed himself, nor has he ever known HOW to witness, yet he is my former Sunday School teacher. We are talking about a regular ol' church. Not Mormon, not Catholic, nothing weird or fancy.

Shall I continue with more?

Look, we're being deceived. Did you notice that you only wrote about what you think or believe that others have done in terms of their witnessing? We all can see that you did not include yourself as one that witnesses. Why would you reference the actions of others, and not mention your own sense of witnessing? This isn't right.
Did you witness to this 81 year old man? What made you share the gospel with him. And why given he was a Sunday school teacher did he not know the gospel
 
  • Like
Reactions: mama2one
Upvote 0

miknik5

"Let not your heart be troubled"
Jun 9, 2016
15,725
2,781
USA
✟101,174.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Incredible, humans are so deceived. They don't even know to question their own pastors; their integrity. They don't even know to test their own pastors "Spirit", to see if it is true and proper. Humans, they are so deceived. When will the flock wake up, to rise above their false teachers and begin to apply the Almighty, Powerful Word of God upon them? When will the True Flock wake up, and begin to compare Our Word with their word, and their lives? When will the True Flock wake up, and demand transparency from their pastors? When will this Great Flock, in all of these churches, every single one in the world, wake up and begin to test their leaders? To demand that they be teaching the true Word of God? When will this Incredible Body of Christ wake up and demand that their leaders be of the same mind, and if they are not, demand and require that it be so!
The churches today are different. Most attend church for the hour then go off to live their lives. Not many parishioners truly know their pastors. You seem to have had the opportunity to be close enough to your “leaders” to see that their understanding of the Gospel wasn’t really in line to the Truth?

And of course, if that is so, you should, and as one poster mentioned, with all gentleness, share the Gospel
 
Upvote 0

miknik5

"Let not your heart be troubled"
Jun 9, 2016
15,725
2,781
USA
✟101,174.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
What a great response. You're the kind of guy that I want on my team, though you say that you're not so great with words....neither was Moses, so we ought not ever come down on ourselves too hard. Proper perspective is always right, and I can see that your head is in the right direction, for to admit your weakness shows great strength, in my eyes. As Witnesses, God gives us His Holy Spirit to enable us to do His good works according to His good will and pleasing will. I can't find anyone that wants to do the work of God, but if I had someone like you, here, we could make eternal impacts....and that's all I want to do.

Thank you for the blessings. I
believe in
you completely, and I can sense that God's Incredible and Almighty Spirit is with you. I remind you to offer up Holy Askings to God. I was never taught to Ask that God's Spirit would further awaken our hearts and minds. I just didn't know....no one had ever taught me to do so. I offer myself to God as a Holy and Pleasing sacrifice to God quite regularly, asking that He would completely make me His own, even stripping me of my rights and decisions. Knowing God is an incredible thing....we just need to ask and keep on asking. God doesn't always answer the first know....He wants to see that we're serious. Again, thank you for your kindness and gentle heart. The world needs more of you.
I’m confused by this post
I’ll try to highlight within your post what I’m confused about
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Thess

Well-Known Member
Oct 31, 2018
756
319
56
Chelan
✟19,864.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Divorced
Wait. You said we haven’t been taught the whole Gospel?

Can you please explain what you mean

Thanks

Unfortunately, that is exactly what I am saying. My heart wants to believe that there is a legitimate church somewhere in the world, but my heart grieves.

Many years ago I wrote a book on how to be happy, quoting David from the OT where he said that he’d “always be happy and never have trouble”. Wow….that’s just so unrealistic, particularly when we read of his stuggles (which I think everyone would have). But this book that I had written; while it helped me immensely, and while I had never been at a place of greater freedom and happiness at any other point in my life, this happiness only lasted for about five years. I slowly caved in to my lust for women and honestly, that probably had as big effect as anything, but all of the tools of ideas that I had were no longer working and before I knew it, I was drinking like a fish again; terribly miserable.

Within the last three years I’ve been blessed to discover that our church system, and world on the whole, doesn’t truly understand three things: Submission, Obedience and Confidence. Ironically, all three of those incredibly important to understand biblical principles were nowhere to be found in my old book. Unbelievable. I was crushed when I began to piece together the truth, which was that I was submitting myself in rank and order to people, considering myself a piece of garbage compared to them. I was really, really struggling without having any parents or healthy role models to follow. I just had the man whom I had idolized, my Catholic father….and I wanted to be just like him, so that’s what I did. I became a very bad person and have lived amazing pleasures, just as he did. I did what I was taught. I did what I was shown. I injested the ideologies that others around me had had. Those ideas were not of God, thus part of me wanted to die because of so much self-hatred. If someone had just said to me, “David, look. Here’s what’s up. You’re sinning, totally sinning. Look at you, you’re worried about flesh and bone. Don’t you know that you were first spirit?” Your spirit is of the same worth and value as everyone else. No one’s spirit is to submit to another. It’s illogical.”

A lot more could be written on that, but my point is that I just needed to know what to think. I needed someone to help me understand how to see this world and how to see life from God’s view. No one I’ve ever known has had that capacity. No one, not even Christians whom are filled with God and His Holy Spirit….no one has ever helped. I have been left on my own from the Church my entire life. My parents paid the gay piano player to take me home with him and keep me as a pet. He did that. Age 14.

Yes. I’ve heard the gospel, but from the exact same, false system of people that watched that happen to me and not once….did a single person ever talk to me about it. My gosh, I had to stay silent to keep my parents from jail for the illegal things that were doing to me. What was I to do? So I said nothing, but no one ever knew that I was so angry because no one was helping me, that I just wanted to start killing all of these hypocrites. I was just shocked that everyone had this false idea of me, but it was my parents that we growing weed in my closet….that I had to hide. I had to hide that I was being beaten by rolled up garden hose…the hard kind from the 70’s. My parents lied, throwing me under the bus and it was the best way to protect themselves.

It’s not my mother and fathers fault. Sure, they are responsible for their behavior, but they were both taught and bred to be as they were to me. My mother was beaten with, you got it, a rolled up garden hose. My father was physically and emotionally beaten by his father. I understand and they are totally forgiven, in fact, it wasn’t even them doing it. The Sin Nature was in control, so it’s easy to forgive them in that light. I love them and pray that they would come to me so that they might rest. But these Christians cannot turn, they cannot take responsibility and turn so that they might rest. They don’t even know that they are loved and forgiven….it is so sad. Their hatred is so deep that all my efforts have been for my growth, as it seems.

To the chase: If the Apostle Paul were the head of my church, we would all agree that he would do all that he could to ensure that I would stay with my parents. We would all agree that they needed to get the counseling that they needed so that I could have an opportunity to live with two mature people so that I could have an opportunity to learn how and who to be. Paul would have counseled me. He would have been shocked if he had arrived and saw that I was being torn from my parents and families every week. His head would have spun, he would have wept out of one eye and bulged with righteous anger out of the other for how an entire church could possibly ever, ever allow something like that to happen. He would have been saddened and enraged.

As you can imagine, I wasn’t expected to grow in my faith. I wasn’t tested. No one tested me. No one made sure that I was a real Christian, and I wasn’t. I have lived a wretched life of sin because I was not taught the true Gospel. And that Gospel includes strict obedience and we were not taught confidence. No one talks about confidence on the deepest of levels. For who knows what those levels are? I’ve exposed myself, ripped myself apart so that all can see who what not to be. I needed to know what was wrong with me….why would my parents hate me so much, for all I had was unsearchable love and worship for them. Literally.

My fingers are worn, but if we’re missing the deeper understandings of any of the words Submission, Obedience or Confidence, our faith is in big trouble. If any one of those three points are lacking, it clearly shows that something, somewhere in our belief system, there is an issue. So what….that’s everyone. Who cares, get over it….that’s how I see it. No big deal. And this is why we are unable to share about the New of Christ, that our belief system has a kink in it.

How can we share if we aren’t confident and how can we be confident if we aren’t obeying? If we aren’t obeying, how can we say that we’ve submitted to Jesus? And if we haven’t submitted to Jesus, how can we say that we truly believe in Him?
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.