Battle of Dual Covenant Theology and the Charge of "Replacement Theology"

LittleLambofJesus · Mar 16, 2019

Jerryhuerta said:
I do believe I addressed this; many are called, few are chosen.

Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved. Romans 9:27

Again, Paul cited from Isaiah about those born of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Sand of the sea.........repent!

Isa 10:22
For though your people, O Israel, be as the sand of the sea,
A remnant of them will return;
The destruction decreed shall overflow with righteousness.

Hos 1:10
“Yet the number of the children of Israel Shall be as the sand of the sea,
Which cannot be measured or numbered.
And it shall come to pass In the place where it was said to them,
‘You are not My people,' There it shall be said to them,
‘You are sons of the living God.'

Rom 9:27
Isaiah also cries out concerning Israel:
“Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea,
The remnant will be saved.

Rev 13:1
Then I stood on the sand of the sea.
And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns,[fn] and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name.

Rev 20:8
and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle,
whose number is as the sand of the sea.

Jerryhuerta · Mar 16, 2019

BABerean2 said:
Luk 24:25 Then He said to them, "O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken!
Luk 24:26 Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things and to enter into His glory?"
Luk 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself.

On the road to Emaus the risen Savior revealed that the whole Old Testament is about Him.

What did Paul say below about genealogies?

1Ti_1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.

Those who most often use the charge of "Replacement Theology" are attempting to defend the Two Peoples of God doctrine of modern Dispensational Theology, which John Nelson Darby brought to America about the time of the Civil War.

Who has replaced the one seed(Christ), with the many seeds in Galatians 3:16?

.

"Most often" means not all or not without exception. I'm the exception as I am not a dispensationalist. In fact, I've debated dispensationalist here and shown how they are remiss about the OT prophecies too. You are also remiss about the context of Genesis 22:18, from where Paul cites in Galatian 3:16. The antecedent verses in Genesis is:

And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son: That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies. Genesis 22:16-17

The term “seed” has both a singular and collective sense, the latter being a body of individuals, also substantiated in Genesis 13:15-16. That is why Paul uses the collective sense in the last verse in Galatians 3.

And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. Galatians 3:29

We find the same two senses in Isaiah 54:3, except in the untenable perception of Replacement theology. The “seed” is initially Christ and again, collectively Ephraim.

BABerean2 · Mar 16, 2019

Jerryhuerta said:
"Most often" means not all or not without exception. I'm the exception as I am not a dispensationalist. In fact, I've debated dispensationalist here and shown how they are remiss about the OT prophecies too. You are also remiss about the context of Genesis 22:18, from where Paul cites in Galatian 3:16. The antecedent verses in Genesis is:

And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son: That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies. Genesis 22:16-17

The term “seed” has both a singular and collective sense, the latter being a body of individuals, also substantiated in Genesis 13:15-16. That is why Paul uses the collective sense in the last verse in Galatians 3.

And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. Galatians 3:29

We find the same two senses in Isaiah 54:3, except in the untenable perception of Replacement theology. The “seed” is initially Christ and again, collectively Ephraim.

Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Mat 1:1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

Mat 21:33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:
Mat 21:34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.
Mat 21:35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.
Mat 21:36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.
Mat 21:37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.
Mat 21:38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
Mat 21:39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.
Mat 21:40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
Mat 21:41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
Mat 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
Mat 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

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Jerryhuerta · Mar 16, 2019

BABerean2 said:
Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Mat 1:1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

Mat 21:33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:
Mat 21:34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.
Mat 21:35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.
Mat 21:36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.
Mat 21:37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.
Mat 21:38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
Mat 21:39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.
Mat 21:40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
Mat 21:41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
Mat 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
Mat 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

.

Again, asked and answered: many are called, few are chosen. God called those born of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, but few were chosen. It's called election base upon faith, faith in the Redeemer to come. And again, 1 Peter 2:9-10 substantiates that the nation that bears the fruit is Ephraim.

BABerean2 · Mar 16, 2019

Jerryhuerta said:
And again, 1 Peter 2:9-10 substantiates that the nation that bears the fruit is Ephraim.

Jas 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
Jas 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
Jas 1:3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

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Jerryhuerta · Mar 16, 2019

BABerean2 said:
Jas 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
Jas 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
Jas 1:3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

.

And how does this help your obstreperous contentions? There were refugees from the Babylonian captivity along with the elect exiles of the dispersion (1 Peter 1:1) scattered abroad.

keras · Mar 16, 2019

Jerryhuerta said:
Again, asked and answered: many are called, few are chosen. God called those born of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, but few were chosen. It's called election base upon faith, faith in the Redeemer to come. And again, 1 Peter 2:9-10 substantiates that the nation that bears the fruit is Ephraim.

It is clear from the context of 1 Peter 3, that he is referring to Christians. Who were not a people, but now are the people of God, His holy nation.

Actually I do think that Ephraim types may play a role as leaders of the new nation of Beulah. Isaiah 62:1-5 But their skins could be black, yellow or whatever Eskimos have, etc. Possibly a woman; Jeremiah 31:22
As Jeremiah 30:21 and Hosea 1:11 tell us, we Christians will elect our own leaders, but the Lord will direct our paths.

Jerryhuerta · Mar 16, 2019

keras said:
It is clear from the context of 1 Peter 3, that he is referring to Christians. Who were not a people, but now are the people of God, His holy nation.

Actually I do think that Ephraim types may play a role as leaders of the new nation of Beulah. Isaiah 62:1-5 But their skins could be black, yellow or whatever Eskimos have, etc. Possibly a woman; Jeremiah 31:22
As Jeremiah 30:21 and Hosea 1:11 tell us, we Christians will elect our own leaders, but the Lord will direct our paths.

There is no doubt that the grammatical-historical hermeneutic substantiates that 1 Peter 2:10 cites from Hosea 2:23 and is addressing the elect exiles of the dispersion, 1 Peter 1:1. Replacement theology suppresses the grammatical-historical sense and spiritualizes the interpretation to make it fit gentiles.

BABerean2 · Mar 16, 2019

Jerryhuerta said:
Replacement theology suppresses the grammatical-historical sense and spiritualizes the interpretation to make it fit gentiles.

Act 28:25 And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,
Act 28:26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:
Act 28:27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Act 28:28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.
Act 28:29 And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves.

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Jerryhuerta · Mar 16, 2019

BABerean2 said:
Act 28:25 And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,
Act 28:26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:
Act 28:27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Act 28:28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.
Act 28:29 And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves.

.

And being sent to the gentiles they aren't to boast seeing that they can be cast off too.

For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Romans 11:21

But God is able to graft the natural branches again, for the gift and calling are without repentance.

And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again... For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. Romans 11:23, 29

jgr · Mar 17, 2019

Jerryhuerta said:
I do believe I addressed this; many are called, few are chosen.

Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved. Romans 9:27

Again, Paul cited from Isaiah about those born of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

How did those who were chosen, get chosen? Was it via random acts of God?

Or was it because they first responded in faithful and obedient compliance with God's covenant conditions?

That is how the remnant was, and is, chosen.

Not by DNA and being "born into it".

jgr · Mar 17, 2019

Jerryhuerta said:
But God is able to graft the natural branches again, for the gift and calling are without repentance.

But God is able to graft the natural branches again, for the gift and calling are without repentance "if they abide not still in unbelief".

Sadly, it is only the remnant who "abide not still in unbelief".

keras · Mar 17, 2019

Jerryhuerta said:
There is no doubt that the grammatical-historical hermeneutic substantiates that 1 Peter 2:10 cites from Hosea 2:23 and is addressing the elect exiles of the dispersion, 1 Peter 1:1. Replacement theology suppresses the grammatical-historical sense and spiritualizes the interpretation to make it fit gentiles.

As I say then: the majority of the exiles must have become Christian.
Jesus was sent only to save the lost sheep of Israel, His well schooled Apostles did the job. 1 Peter 1:1, James 1:1, Acts 13:47
As is proved by the fact of Britain becoming Christian in the first century, the great Irish evangelists and the general Christianization of Europe, where the House of Israel settled after migrating from the Caucasus region, circa 700- 600 BC.

Jerryhuerta · Mar 17, 2019

jgr said:
How did those who were chosen, get chosen? Was it via random acts of God?

Or was it because they first responded in faithful and obedient compliance with God's covenant conditions?

That is how the remnant was, and is, chosen.

Not by DNA and being "born into it".

This is an indication of indoctrination; the refusal to see. I've answered this repeatedly but some will not listen. When I stated that many are called but few are chosen under the Old Covenant it means God elects some to save by faith, not by works.

Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved. Romans 9:27

Again, God saves some of those born of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, which means that for some it is by faith and by the coincidence of birth; it is both. That is what Romans 9:6, 8 means. "They are not all Israel, which are of Israel." That means some ARE. Only indoctrination would prevent someone from grasping that some who are born as Israelites are also children of the promise. For "some" Israelites salvation is by faith and the coincidence of birth, it is both. But for gentiles it is merely by faith. Furthermore, the phrase children of the flesh in Romans 9:8 is idiomatic of walking after the flesh, and not the coincidence of birth, as Replacement theology attempts to assert.

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Romans 8:1

The phrase children of the flesh in Romans 9:8 does not mean the coincidence of birth, it means those who walk after the flesh. Those who are born Israelites and are saved is because they walk after the Spirit, which is FAITH.

Jerryhuerta · Mar 17, 2019

jgr said:
But God is able to graft the natural branches again, for the gift and calling are without repentance "if they abide not still in unbelief".

Sadly, it is only the remnant who "abide not still in unbelief".

Well, yea, that's what the scriptures say; it is a remnant of Israel that is saved and they were born into the Old Covenant, while the gentiles had to be converted at that time.

Jerryhuerta · Mar 17, 2019

keras said:
As I say then: the majority of the exiles must have become Christian.
Jesus was sent only to save the lost sheep of Israel, His well schooled Apostles did the job. 1 Peter 1:1, James 1:1, Acts 13:47
As is proved by the fact of Britain becoming Christian in the first century, the great Irish evangelists and the general Christianization of Europe, where the House of Israel settled after migrating from the Caucasus region, circa 700- 600 BC.

I agree.

parousia70 · Mar 17, 2019

Jerryhuerta said:
Sorry, but I’m not avoiding anything but I am limited in giving these forums my complete attention. The prophecies that the 10 tribes are to inherit the gentiles, Isaiah 54:3, is based upon Christ’s body releasing both houses from the Old Covenant, Romans 7:1-4, and the great commission, Matthew 28:19-20, which takes a modicum of time to proceed. By the end of the first-century it is well under way.

Matthew 21:40-45 is clear.
The event that removes the kingdom and leases it to the new nation is:
“The coming of the lord of the vineyard to miserably destroy those evil servants and lease His vineyard to another nation”

This happens after the son is killed.

So my question still stands:
WHEN did the “Lord of the Vineyard Come” and destroy them, THEREBY removing the kingdom from those He destroyed and THEN leasing it to others?

Jerryhuerta · Mar 17, 2019

parousia70 said:
Matthew 21:40-45 is clear.
The event that removes the kingdom and leases it to the new nation is:
“The coming of the lord of the vineyard to miserably destroy those evil servants and lease His vineyard to another nation”

This happens after the son is killed.

So my question still stands:
WHEN did the “Lord of the Vineyard Come” and destroy them, THEREBY removing the kingdom from those He destroyed and THEN leasing it to others?

Already, asked and answered! You fallaciously take the parable as literal and the response of the wicked husbandmen, verse 41, as the ordained circumstance of their removal. That is untenable to whom it was given to understand parables.

And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. Matthew 13:10-11

jgr · Mar 17, 2019

Jerryhuerta said:
Well, yea, that's what the scriptures say; it is a remnant of Israel that is saved and they were born into the Old Covenant, while the gentiles had to be converted at that time.

Based on the following, how did God's covenant conditions and requirements differ between those who were "born into the Old Covenant" and those who "had to be converted"?

Exodus 12:48
And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the Lord, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof.

Exodus 12:49
One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

Leviticus 19:34
But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.

Leviticus 24:22
Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country: for I am the Lord your God.

Numbers 15:16
One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you.

Jerryhuerta · Mar 17, 2019

jgr said:
Based on the following, how did God's covenant conditions and requirements differ between those who were "born into the Old Covenant" and those who "had to be converted"?

Exodus 12:48
And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the Lord, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof.

Exodus 12:49
One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

Leviticus 19:34
But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.

Leviticus 24:22
Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country: for I am the Lord your God.

Numbers 15:16
One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you.

Your question is merely an evasion of the Abrahamic Covenant reality that Isaac and Jacob were born into it and did not have to be converted as gentiles. The texts you cite were the requirements when gentiles joined the house of Israel. Strangers were not born Israelites, only the sons of Jacob were. It's so simple a child can understand it; only an indoctrinated individual has difficulty.

Battle of Dual Covenant Theology and the Charge of "Replacement Theology"

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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