When to look for the rapture of the church

keras · Mar 16, 2019

safswan said:
The promise of the Lord therefore is to keep us in the world but away from evil and to strengthen us to bear temptations,(tribulations) not for us to escape from the world in order to escape these things.

Absolutely correct.
As 1 Peter 4:12 says: Do not be surprised by the fiery ordeal that comes to test you, as though something strange has happened to you.

A rapture to heaven of the Church is the prevalent belief of the Western Christians today. This is very unfortunate as when it doesn’t happen, many may lose their faith.
The ‘rapture’ is a belief based on assumptions, inferences and pure guesswork:

The theory of a 'rapture to heaven' of the Church, is not Biblical.
1/ Such an idea is not found in the Bible.
2/ Jesus refutes it five times; John 3:13, John 7:34, John 8:21-23, John 17:15, Revelation 5:10
3/ Unprecedented; why should God remove His people today, when all up until today have been persecuted and martyred.
4/ The prophets have told us what will happen in the end times and how we must endure until the end.
5/ The ongoing dispute of pre, mid, post or anytime rapture, is evidence enough of there being no proper scripture about a 'rapture'.
6/ Jesus said that we Christians could be deceived. He was right!
7/ Peter said that Satan is prowling around looking who he can devour with his lies and Paul says that people will listen to 'nice' stories, turning away from sound teaching.

God has given us the information so we know His Plans for the end times, great Promises of protection and Blessings to His people as they stand firm in their faith thru all that must happen.

Copperhead said:
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a departing first, and that that man of sin be disclosed, even the son of perdition.

2 Thessalonians 3:4.....that Day cannot come, [the Return of Jesus] before the final rebellion against God.....
Nothing to do with a 'rapture' at all, as the rest of your quotes are, as well.

Wouldn't it be so much better for you and all who have been deceived by false teachings, to know and believe the truth about what God has planned for our future?

_Dave_ · Mar 16, 2019

Copperhead said:
It isn't so much about exact similarities as it is about pattern. But there is much more substantive evidence of an early removal of the righteous. It is actually what triggers the GT period if one takes this passage at face value.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our assembling unto him,
2 That ye be not suddenly moved from your mind, nor troubled neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter, as it were from us, as though the day of Christ were at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a departing first, and that that man of sin be disclosed, even the son of perdition.

But it still remains, there are many passages in the OT that imply a physical gathering and removal from the calamities coming upon the earth.

Try Psalms 27:5. At the time of trouble, which is a reference to Jeremiah 30:7. And being hidden in the tabernacle of the Lord.

And of course there is the most quoted prophet by Yeshua, Isaiah. And Isaiah 26 from start to end is about the Day of the Lord and that the resurrected righteous dead and living enter their chambers until all the calamities are past. Yeshua refers to this in John 14:1-3.

And these things begin at the birth / labor pains. Dozens of passages in the OT and even Paul in the NT refers to the labor pains in 1 Thessalonians 5:3. Jeremiah says that the labor pains are what starts the time of Jacob's Trouble. Isaiah 26 also ties in the labor pains with the beginning of the Day of the Lord / GT period and the righteous dead being resurrected and together the with the righteous being hidden.

You bring up some good points.

The "removals" that are commonly associated as being metaphors of the rapture are not entirely analogous, but they do show a pattern, like you say, of God's Mercy. The difference is that the rapture (harpazo) is a forceful snatching, with no participation from the person at all. On the other hand, the removals all depended on the persons contributing to and participating in being removed in some way.

That Noah is not a perfect, seamless analogy of the rapture in no way refutes the many completely unambiguous verses in God's word where He declares the saved will be snatched up instantly in the twinkling of an eye. Rather, the flood and other events like that, are a beautiful reminder of God's mercy on the faithful when He had some gritty housekeeping to take care of.

Copperhead · Mar 16, 2019

The "come" of Isaiah 26:20 can have the connotation of being carried away, take away, vanish.

The "hide" of Psalms 27:5 can have the connotation of being absent.

There are many passages to hash out that many have overlooked for hundreds of years. The church in general has pretty much put the OT on the back burner and yet there is a wealth of information regarding the end times. Lots of theological baggage that many bring to the table.

I think where the Noah account fits in is that YHVH sealed Noah, his family, and the animals in the ark. I am not convinced they could have gotten out if they wanted do. And it was 7 days before the flood came. That 7 days could have an illusion to Daniel's 70th week. Or not. but it is curious nonetheless.

safswan · Mar 16, 2019

_Dave_ said:
My mission on these forms is to teach and offer mild correction.

It is good that you think you have such a mission but did you ever think it could be the other way around?

_Dave_ said:
If a person responds to my offering in a respectful way, or asks further questions I will reply. But once I've made my case and someone continues to repeat the same misinterpretation, especially if it is in a goading or argumentative way, then I figure that my job is done and no more can be gained by repeating what I have already stated.

I agree that there will come a time when persons in these discussions may have to agree to disagree.You should realise however that you will be responded to in the manner you respond to others.

Your first post in response to my correction of your labeling of Paul as a pretribber never addressed the point of the post but rather attempted to falsely accuse me of cherry picking verses.Saw you making statements as if they were facts without any supporting scriptures and also claiming to have superior interpreting principles which I did not employ.My second response was to correct all those misrepresentations and misunderstandings you exhibited.I am sorry,but then,like Paul,not really sorry my response upset your lesson plan but then you should have seen that you would not have gotten away with these falsehoods parading as truth.

_Dave_ · Mar 16, 2019

safswan said:
It is good that you think you have such a mission but did you ever think it could be the other way around?
... and also claiming to have superior interpreting principles which I did not employ.

The thing is that every single word and verse in Scripture has one, and only one, true meaning. There is no subjective interpretation. And correct interpretation is guided by a recognized set of objective principles embodied in something called hermeneutics.

Where someone is on the hermeneutic line between purely allegorical and strictly literal will determine how he or she rightly divides God's word. So, when someone says their interpretation is the correct one there is actually a quantifiable test to determine if that someone is employing good hermeneutic principles. There is the right place to be on the line between allegorical and literal.

Any offset from this right point on the hermeneutic scale results in one misinterpretation after another until they become a cascading series of bad interpretations that leads to some serious false doctrines; among which are preterism, no rapture, no millennial reign of Christ, universalism, the church replacing Israel, no eternal security and allegorizing all of, or just plain denying, what John was a witness to in Revelation.

The plain fact is that anyone who argues against one of the most important doctrines in all of Scripture, the rapture, simply is not using good interpreting principles. So, yes, I know for a fact it can't be the other way around.

JacksBratt · Mar 16, 2019

safswan said:
It is amazing that you see and cite the scriptures which illuminate your erroneous association but choose to ignore them.Neither Noah nor Lot were removed from the earth.Both were in close proximity to the disaster around them.So much so that Lot's wife was also consumed due to her disobedience.This is just like the incidences of God protecting His people from the plagues in Egypt.The experiences of Israel in Egypt and Daniel and his colleagues in Babylon are legendary and shows how great God is at protecting His people.[See,Exodus 8:22,23; 9:4,25,26; 10:21-23;12:12,13;Daniel 3:19-28;6:16-24; Ezekiel 9:1-6;I Peter 4:17;Revelation 7:1-3]

"And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth. And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters."(Genesis 7:17,18)

"Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground.But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt."(Genesis 19:24-26)

In both cases it was also the physical actions of the persons concerned,which propelled them out of the danger.Noah building and entering the ark and Lot fleeing from Sodom.This is nothing like how the Lord receives His saints at His coming.

This type of reasoning puts into question God's ability to protect, if Christians have to be taken from the world in order to be protected from tribulations (temptations), perplexities and distress. This is not supported by the scriptures

Jesus asked:

"I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world,but that Thou shouldest keep them from the evil."[John 17;15]

The apostle Paul added:

"There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man....,but will with the temptation also make a way to escape,that ye may bear it."[I Corinthians 10:13;See also,II Thessalonians 3:3;Matthew 6:13;26:41;II Peter 2:9]

The promise of the Lord therefore is to keep us in the world but away from evil and to strengthen us to bear temptations,(tribulations) not for us to escape from the world in order to escape these things.

The Psalms which many use to call upon God for protection are looking forward to the times of trouble which will come upon the earth.The people of God can be protected in these times while the wicked are punished.

"A thousand shall fall at thy side,and ten thousand at thy right hand;but it shall not come nigh thee....there shall no evil befall thee,neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.For He shall give His angels charge over thee,to keep thee in all thy ways."[Psalm 91:7,10,11; See,Psalm 91:7-16;46:1-11;Luke 21:25,26;Revelation 6:12-17]

I know both stories quite well. What Christian doesn't?

However, Noah was removed and well above the destruction. He prepared for the coming destruction of those on earth, as his God told him to.

The only way he would have been in danger, would have been to ignore God and not been lifted up and away from the destruction below the water.

He didn't walk among those on earth as they drown to somehow be protected while those standing beside him were not.

Christians will be lifted up and out of harms way because they have listened to what their God has told them.

Lot, again, was moved away from the area that was being destroyed... The great tribulation will be world wide. Where are millions of Christians going to go to be safe from the coming One World Government?

Lot was strongly encouraged by the angels. He and his family listened and followed these angels to safety.

I don't see how you can think that Noah and his family, and Lot and his family, were not removed from the area of wrath..

We must also be removed from the area affected.. the whole entire earth.....by the rapture..

But, if you want to stick around.. good luck with that.. If it was Noah.. he'd be saying "How long can you tread water?... a year?"

If it was Lot, he'd be asking "How long can you dodge hail of fire and brimstone?"

The beast will be asking you to bow down or.....off with your head.

What is your strategy for the seven years? I haven't heard one person tell me, yet, what they plan to do for seven years.. three and a half of which you will not be able to buy, sell, work, travel, eat, feed your family, or anything.. all the while every other non believing human is hunting you down.

I'm all ears... what are you going to do?

_Dave_ · Mar 16, 2019

JacksBratt said:
I know both stories quite well. What Christian doesn't?

However, Noah was removed and well above the destruction. He prepared for the coming destruction of those on earth, as his God told him to.

The only way he would have been in danger, would have been to ignore God and not been lifted up and away from the destruction below the water.

He didn't walk among those on earth as they drown to somehow be protected while those standing beside him were not.

Christians will be lifted up and out of harms way because they have listened to what their God has told them.

Lot, again, was moved away from the area that was being destroyed... The great tribulation will be world wide. Where are millions of Christians going to go to be safe from the coming One World Government?

Lot was strongly encouraged by the angels. He and his family listened and followed these angels to safety.

I don't see how you can think that Noah and his family, and Lot and his family, were not removed from the area of wrath..

We must also be removed from the area affected.. the whole entire earth.....by the rapture..

But, if you want to stick around.. good luck with that.. If it was Noah.. he'd be saying "How long can you tread water?... a year?"

If it was Lot, he'd be asking "How long can you dodge hail of fire and brimstone?"

The beast will be asking you to bow down or.....off with your head.

What is your strategy for the seven years? I haven't heard one person tell me, yet, what they plan to do for seven years.. three and a half of which you will not be able to buy, sell, work, travel, eat, feed your family, or anything.. all the while every other non believing human is hunting you down.

I'm all ears... what are you going to do?

JacksBratt, that is a very vivid description of what fate is in store for those who are left behind after the rapture.

What comes to mind upon reading your post brought a chuckle to my mind. I was reminded of Paul's words in his first epistle to the Thessalonians.

1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

IOW, Paul's purpose for writing to the members of the body of Christ in Thessalonica was to comfort them with his words that they were going to suffer intolerable persecution, beheadings, starvation, etc.? That's comforting?

No, Paul's words of comfort were to tell them that they will be snatched away from all that. How much more plain can it get?

keras · Mar 17, 2019

JacksBratt said:
What is your strategy for the seven years? I haven't heard one person tell me, yet, what they plan to do for seven years.. three and a half of which you will not be able to buy, sell, work, travel, eat, feed your family, or anything.. all the while every other non believing human is hunting you down.

Here's one for you:
There is coming soon the terrible Day of the Lord's wrath by fire, earthquakes, storms and tsunamis. Everyone will be here to experience it and it will change the world as we know it.
Then we Christians will gather and go to live in all of the holy Land, being the people God always wanted there. Isaiah 62:1-5, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Romans 9:24-26.
Psalms 107 and Isaiah 35 describe this migration.
The rest of the worlds people will form a One World Govt, soon to be led by one powerful man. He will sign a 7 year peace treaty with the Christian nation of Beulah, living in peace and prosperity, protected by the Lord, as He destroys an attacking army from the North . Ezekiel 38-39, Joel 2:20

But the OWG leader will break the treaty and conquer Beulah. As we see in Daniel 11:32, Zechariah 14:1-2 and Revelation 12:6-17, the people of Beulah will be divided into 2 groups; those who kept their faith in the Lord and those who relied on that treaty. Isaiah 28:14-15
The first group will be taken to a place of safety on earth and the rest must remain in the Land.

So I do not expect to ever have to 'take the mark of the beast' or live under his rule.
At the Return of Jesus, He will send out His angels to gather all of His people; mainly those waiting in safety, to where He is and they, we, will be with Him forever, on earth. Matthew 24:30-31, 1 Thessalonians 4:17
Ref: logostelos.info

JacksBratt · Mar 17, 2019

keras said:
Here's one for you:
There is coming soon the terrible Day of the Lord's wrath by fire, earthquakes, storms and tsunamis. Everyone will be here to experience it and it will change the world as we know it.
Then we Christians will gather and go to live in all of the holy Land, being the people God always wanted there. Isaiah 62:1-5, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Romans 9:24-26.
Psalms 107 and Isaiah 35 describe this migration.
The rest of the worlds people will form a One World Govt, soon to be led by one powerful man. He will sign a 7 year peace treaty with the Christian nation of Beulah, living in peace and prosperity, protected by the Lord, as He destroys an attacking army from the North . Ezekiel 38-39, Joel 2:20

But the OWG leader will break the treaty and conquer Beulah. As we see in Daniel 11:32, Zechariah 14:1-2 and Revelation 12:6-17, the people of Beulah will be divided into 2 groups; those who kept their faith in the Lord and those who relied on that treaty. Isaiah 28:14-15
The first group will be taken to a place of safety on earth and the rest must remain in the Land.

So I do not expect to ever have to 'take the mark of the beast' or live under his rule.
At the Return of Jesus, He will send out His angels to gather all of His people; mainly those waiting in safety, to where He is and they, we, will be with Him forever, on earth. Matthew 24:30-31, 1 Thessalonians 4:17
Ref: logostelos.info

Oh yeah, I've heard this before.. 2 billion people are going to travel to Israel... Oh, OK..... I can't wait.

Not only does the logistics of the number of planes and ships boggle ones mind.. but the immigration policy of Israel and the housing problems and other issues with food and waste management make this an intelligence nightmare and dream for those who don't actually think things through.

JacksBratt · Mar 17, 2019

_Dave_ said:
JacksBratt, that is a very vivid description of what fate is in store for those who are left behind after the rapture.

What comes to mind upon reading your post brought a chuckle to my mind. I was reminded of Paul's words in his first epistle to the Thessalonians.

IOW, Paul's purpose for writing to the members of the body of Christ in Thessalonica was to comfort them with his words that they were going to suffer intolerable persecution, beheadings, starvation, etc.? That's comforting?

No, Paul's words of comfort were to tell them that they will be snatched away from all that. How much more plain can it get?

I agree...

Don't know how rapture deniers and post trib believers are doing any comforting of one another with their predictions of sticking around.

LittleLambofJesus · Mar 17, 2019

JacksBratt said:
Oh yeah, I've heard this before.. 2 billion people are going to travel to Israel... Oh, OK..... I can't wait.

Not only does the logistics of the number of planes and ships boggle ones mind.. but the immigration policy of Israel and the housing problems and other issues with food and waste management make this an intelligence nightmare and dream for those who don't actually think things through.

They better buy horses and camels while they still can..........

Isa 66:
19 “I will set a sign among them; and those among them who escape I will send to the nations: to Tarshish and Pul and Lud, who draw the bow, and Tubal and Javan, to the coastlands afar off who have not heard My fame nor seen My glory. And they shall declare My glory among the Gentiles.
20 “Then they shall bring all your brethren for an offering to the LORD out of all nations, on horses and in chariots and in litters, on mules and on camels, to My holy mountain Jerusalem,” says the LORD,
“as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD.

The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19

Revelation 18:
11 And the Merchants<1713> of the earth are lamenting<2799> and mourning<3996> over Her,
that their cargo<1117> no one is buying anymore.
12 Cargo of gold and silver, and precious stone and pearl
and fine linen and purple, [Luke 16:19/Revelation 18:16] and silk, and scarlet,
and all thyne wood, and every vessel of ivory, and every vessel of most precious wood and brass and iron and marble 13 and cinnamon, and odours, and ointment, and frankincense,
and wine and oil and fine flour and wheat and cattle and sheep
and of horses and of chariots and of bodies and souls of men.

_Dave_ · Mar 17, 2019

JacksBratt said:
I agree...

Don't know how rapture deniers and post trib believers are doing any comforting of one another with their predictions of sticking around.

I think the key is that they also deny pretty much all of Revelation, or make it so allegorical it becomes meaningless ... which is a huge affront to God.

If you add up all of the fatalities of people and animal life from all of the seals, trumpets and bowls, and keep track of all of the catastrophic events happening to the earth, sky and space, there isn't going to be much left of humanity or the earth by the time Christ comes back.

Having your Costco buckets of survival food and escaping to your safe place aint gonna cut it.

The blessed hope for rapture deniers, however, applies to them as well as to us, and I'll be pleased to meet them on the way up.

Copperhead · Mar 17, 2019

Ahhhh, cut 'em some slack, Dave. They are just trying to cover all the bases. If they are wrong, no big deal, they get gathered up right along with those who do hold to a removal of the righteous. If they are right, they can be proud that they were right while they are getting their head severed from their body.

The best analogy I have heard of is those who feel that we all go thru that period is that it is essentially a protestant version of purgatory.

But I find it most curious, that among New Age / UFO type literature out there, they also expend a lot of effort down playing the pre-trib position. They waste little time on the other positions. Now, that isn't a basis to substantiate a doctrinal position, but it sure lends to the discussion.

Dr. Mark Eastman, a dedicated Christian, talks about this in this video and documents their writings....

JacksBratt · Mar 17, 2019

Copperhead said:
Ahhhh, cut 'em some slack, Dave. They are just trying to cover all the bases. If they are wrong, no big deal, they get gathered up right along with those who do hold to a removal of the righteous. If they are right, they can be proud that they were right while they are getting their head severed from their body.

The best analogy I have heard of is those who feel that we all go thru that period is that it is essentially a protestant version of purgatory.

But I find it most curious, that among New Age / UFO type literature out there, they also expend a lot of effort down playing the pre-trib position. They waste little time on the other positions. Now, that isn't a basis to substantiate a doctrinal position, but it sure lends to the discussion.

Dr. Mark Eastman, a dedicated Christian, talks about this in this video and documents their writings....

I totally believe that all this "alien" propaganda is just a precursor and set up story for when the rapture happens. These demon entities (aliens) are becoming more prominent and visual.

Satan knows the story. He knows that the rapture will cause billions of people to disappear, all over the world, in a millisecond.

Through his methods he has formed a story of life from other planets that abducts humans.

The rapture will be written off as a mass abduction.

Just go to Netflix and look at the titles and subject matter of the movies.. monsters, all sorts of encounters with other life forms, supernatural humanoids, witch craft, vampires, mediums, evil possession and ghost stories....

Just take a look. We are being brainwashed, indoctrinated, numbed and prepared for the time coming.. where Satan brings all of his cronies... people will be asleep and unprepared....

keras · Mar 17, 2019

JacksBratt said:
Oh yeah, I've heard this before.. 2 billion people are going to travel to Israel... Oh, OK..... I can't wait.

Not only does the logistics of the number of planes and ships boggle ones mind.. but the immigration policy of Israel and the housing problems and other issues with food and waste management make this an intelligence nightmare and dream for those who don't actually think things through.

There is ample Bible information to prove the scenario I posted. It is the 'rapture to heaven' theory that has no solid backing.
Two billion Christians? Do you belong to a Church? How many people there are truly born again Christians? How many in South America, a catholic, close to idol worship religion, are real faithful Christians? The estimate is about 1% and of most Western Church's; average about 10%.
So the reality is that just a few million people will emigrate into all of the area from the Nile to the Euphrates, by then made into a garden Land by the Lord. Isaiah 35:1-10
The Jewish State of Israel and the evil neighbors will be gone. Jeremiah 12:14, Zephaniah 1:14-18

JacksBratt · Mar 18, 2019

keras said:
There is ample Bible information to prove the scenario I posted. It is the 'rapture to heaven' theory that has no solid backing.
Two billion Christians? Do you belong to a Church? How many people there are truly born again Christians? How many in South America, a catholic, close to idol worship religion, are real faithful Christians? The estimate is about 1% and of most Western Church's; average about 10%.
So the reality is that just a few million people will emigrate into all of the area from the Nile to the Euphrates, by then made into a garden Land by the Lord. Isaiah 35:1-10
The Jewish State of Israel and the evil neighbors will be gone. Jeremiah 12:14, Zephaniah 1:14-18

Even if it was 10 million, this is impossible.

ewq1938 · Mar 18, 2019

JacksBratt said:
However, Noah was removed and well above the destruction. He prepared for the coming destruction of those on earth, as his God told him to.

The only way he would have been in danger, would have been to ignore God and not been lifted up and away from the destruction below the water.

He didn't walk among those on earth as they drown to somehow be protected while those standing beside him were not.

Christians will be lifted up and out of harms way because they have listened to what their God has told them.

Lot, again, was moved away from the area that was being destroyed... The great tribulation will be world wide. Where are millions of Christians going to go to be safe from the coming One World Government?

The problem here is that neither Lot of Noah was removed from worldly tribulation. They were only removed to safety when it was time for God to pour wrath upon the wicked. It's the same with the rapture. No one is removed during the tribulation, they will all live around the wicked like Noah and Lot did for years. Only when it's time for God's wrath will people be removed to safety and that wrath comes after the trib has ended. The wrath is for those who did evil during the tribulation. They did evil to Christians, killing and persecuting them.

JacksBratt · Mar 18, 2019

ewq1938 said:
The problem here is that neither Lot of Noah was removed from worldly tribulation.

I disagree.

Lot was in no danger of the fire and brimstone. He was outside of the perimeter of the danger.

Noah was not in any danger of drowning or fear of escaping the flooding water. He, and his family were raised above and separate from the area of danger. Only to return, a year later to the changed earth... sound familiar?

Both were physically removed from the area of danger and tribulation.

ewq1938 said:
They were only removed to safety when it was time for God to pour wrath upon the wicked.

As we will. Not only will we be removed but we "must" be removed. The Church and those in the body of Christ are the only things on this earth that are doing the work of Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit, which dwells in them.

The Holy Spirit will be removed from the earth prior to the tribulation.

Since Christ told us that the Holy Spirit is a "comforter" sent in His stead, so that He can hold to His promise to never "leave or forsake us". We will be removed as well.

Then, and only then, will Satan have an unrestrained access to the blind humans on the earth.

ewq1938 said:
It's the same with the rapture. No one is removed during the tribulation, they will all live around the wicked like Noah and Lot did for years.

You mean like we are now? Noah did not live in the time of the flood.. He lived in the sin and corruption that preceded it. As did Lot. He and his family witnessed the evil of that world..... Just like we do now.

ewq1938 said:
Only when it's time for God's wrath will people be removed to safety and that wrath comes after the trib has ended.

After the Trib? That's when the wrath comes? I disagree.

The tribulation is the Wrath. It will be cut short as if it is not.. no flesh would survive.. and we know that some must survive in order to populate the earth for the millennial reign of Christ.

ewq1938 said:
The wrath is for those who did evil during the tribulation. They did evil to Christians, killing and persecuting them.

Actually, the people who do these evil things, during the tribulation, will be judged just after the battle of Armageddon.

As one poster here already stated. We are to comfort each other with the knowledge of the Rapture... How are you going to comfort someone by telling them that they are going to live through the hell of the tribulation, probably be beheaded.. along with their wives, son's and daughters...who will probably have to watch before they are beheaded?

Copperhead · Mar 18, 2019

JacksBratt said:
I disagree.

Lot was in no danger of the fire and brimstone. He was outside of the perimeter of the danger.

Noah was not in any danger of drowning or fear of escaping the flooding water. He, and his family were raised above and separate from the area of danger. Only to return, a year later to the changed earth... sound familiar?

Both were physically removed from the area of danger and tribulation.

As we will. Not only will we be removed but we "must" be removed. The Church and those in the body of Christ are the only things on this earth that are doing the work of Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit, which dwells in them.

The Holy Spirit will be removed from the earth prior to the tribulation.

Since Christ told us that the Holy Spirit is a "comforter" sent in His stead, so that He can hold to His promise to never "leave or forsake us". We will be removed as well.

Then, and only then, will Satan have an unrestrained access to the blind humans on the earth.

You mean like we are now? Noah did not live in the time of the flood.. He lived in the sin and corruption that preceded it. As did Lot. He and his family witnessed the evil of that world..... Just like we do now.

After the Trib? That's when the wrath comes? I disagree.

The tribulation is the Wrath. It will be cut short as if it is not.. no flesh would survive.. and we know that some must survive in order to populate the earth for the millennial reign of Christ.

Actually, the people who do these evil things, during the tribulation, will be judged just after the battle of Armageddon.

As one poster here already stated. We are to comfort each other with the knowledge of the Rapture... How are you going to comfort someone by telling them that they are going to live through the hell of the tribulation, probably be beheaded.. along with their wives, son's and daughters...who will probably have to watch before they are beheaded?

I pretty much agree with your post. The only part I might differ is the HS being removed. I think it is more like we are delivered and handed off to Yeshua an then the HS steps aside and allows all the chaos to begin.

The servant getting the bride for Isaac seems analogous. Genesis 24.

But no one can come to Yeshua without the testimony of the HS. The removal will be a major wake up call and many will turn to the Lord. Even the 144,000 are sealed by the HS.

ewq1938 · Mar 18, 2019

JacksBratt said:
The tribulation is the Wrath.

No it is not. Tribulation comes from Satan, wrath of God comes after satan's tribulation. Christians will suffer Satan's tribulation, but not any of God's wrath.

As one poster here already stated. We are to comfort each other with the knowledge of the Rapture... How are you going to comfort someone by telling them that they are going to live through the hell of the tribulation, probably be beheaded.. along with their wives, son's and daughters...who will probably have to watch before they are beheaded?

The comforting is comfort concerning something else according to the text. You are misapplying it to tribulation.

When to look for the rapture of the church

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Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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