The Mark of the Beast
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helmut
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This is a weak point in dispensationalism. Israel is the bride of God, the Church is the bride of the lamb, but even a dispensationalist will not dare to say that God has two brides.
This does not means that dispensationalism has no merits, there is some truth in it.
It seems you missed the point that Paul predicts a redemption to those who are now enemies of the church because of the Gospel, Rom 11:28-29.
So not only those who believe now, but more will be saved - when the "fullness of gentiles" as been brought in (as a harvest) and the blindness of Israel will come to an end (see Roman 11 in general).
Also, keep in mind that the covenant are Israel's covenants, as Paul stresses to his (Christian!) readers in Rom 9:4. The whole section Rom 9-11 deals with the problem of Israel not believing the Gospel, it is this Israel Paul predicts to be saved.
EDIT: Roman 11, not 1. Sorry.
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helmut
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Luke doesn't tell his name, the identification with the medical in Lk 4.14 is an educated guess (even if the name, an abbreviation of Lukanos, is correct, it could be another Luke).
But Luke give hints in Acts: As expected for someone who writes such a book, he was part of what happened, and this he shows in the so-called "we" sections.
It does not appear that Luke was a Jew from Judea, the most plausible explanation of his appearance on the scene was that he joint Paul when he traveled to Troas (probably after Paul had passed Adramitton), or in Troas.
Which means that Luke being one of the 70 is rather speculative with nothing corroborating it. And with counter-evidence: Luke does not write "we" when he speaks of the 70.
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Again.Mathew is not talking about 70.He is discussing what took place between Christ and the 12.He wrote what Christ said to the 12.Not 70.
Matthew 10:1 KJV: And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.
Matthew 10:2 KJV: Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;
Matthew 10:3 KJV: Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;
Matthew 10:4 KJV: Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.
Matthew 10:5 KJV: These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
So according to Mathew ,Jesus said these things to 12 disciples.Not 70.
Now you may not believe Mathew but Mathew is an eye witness.
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helmut
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OK. Got it. Thank you.
If you want to know how an eye-witness writes, look into John.
Matthew does not say that he is an eye-witness, he does not write like an eye-witness, he takes texts from Mark.
So why should I think he is an eye-witness? I never said that he is a liar ...
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So youbelieve Mathew is a false testiment of the gospel.
Why didnt you justcome out and say it?
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helmut
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Why do you tell a lie about me? I said Mathew is no liar. He did not claim to be an eye-witness, and there is nothing that compels me to see him as an eye-witness.
I did not say he is a false testiment - do you mean false witness? I gave no hint to Matthew being "false" in any respect.
Matthew is trustworthy, and I believe his Gospel is inspired by the Holy Spirit.
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Youve continually stated reasons why Mathew is suspect.
Do you believe Mathew chaptet 10 is the truth or not?
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Isaiah 8:20
To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
Exodus 26:34
And thou shalt put the mercy seat upon the ark of the testimony in the most holy place.
What is in the ark of the testimony but the ten commandments which is the testimony of Jesus Christ
The law is what Moses wrote and the testimony is what Jesus wrote with his own finger.
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helmut
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In my German Bible I read something like "To the law and the revelation; ..."
I'm going to sleep now, I'm too tired to further look into that matter now, but I'm sure that such a verse-picking as you do is not good. Instead of taking just a handful of verses, you should consider the whole Bible (this is an ideal, of course, you should try and then ask others whether you overlooked something).
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Do the Jews know about Jeremiah 3 and Revelation 11
Jer 3:16
“Then it shall come to pass, when you are multiplied and increased in the land in those days,” says the LORD,
“that they will say no more, ‘The Ark of the Covenant of the LORD.'
It shall not come to mind,
nor shall they remember it,
nor shall they visit it,
nor shall it be made anymore.
Heb 9:4
which had the golden censer and the Ark of the Covenant overlaid on all sides with gold, in which were the golden pot that had the manna, Aaron's rod that budded, and the Tablets of the Covenant
Rev 11:19
And was opened the Sanctuary of the GOD
the in the heaven and was seen the Ark of the Covenant of the GOD in His Sanctuary and became lightnings, sounds/voices and thunders and quaking and great hail.
Rev 8:
3 and another Messenger did come and He stood at the Altar, having a Golden Censer, and there was given to Him much perfume, that He may give it to the prayers of all the Saints upon the Golden Altar that is before the throne,
5 and the Messenger took the Censer, and did fill it out of the fire of the Altar, and did cast it to the land, and there came voices, and thunders, and lightnings, and a quaking.
New House New Stones
John in Tabernacle on Patmos
.................................
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Do the Jews know about Jeremiah 3 and Revelation 11
Jer 3:16
“Then it shall come to pass, when you are multiplied and increased in the land in those days,” says the LORD,
“that they will say no more, ‘The Ark of the Covenant of the LORD.'
It shall not come to mind,
nor shall they remember it,
nor shall they visit it,
nor shall it be made anymore.
Heb 9:4
which had the golden censer and the Ark of the Covenant overlaid on all sides with gold, in which were the golden pot that had the manna, Aaron's rod that budded, and the Tablets of the Covenant
Rev 11:19
And was opened the Sanctuary of the GOD
the in the heaven and was seen the Ark of the Covenant of the GOD in His Sanctuary and became lightnings, sounds/voices and thunders and quaking and great hail.
Rev 8:
3 and another Messenger did come and He stood at the Altar, having a Golden Censer, and there was given to Him much perfume, that He may give it to the prayers of all the Saints upon the Golden Altar that is before the throne,
5 and the Messenger took the Censer, and did fill it out of the fire of the Altar, and did cast it to the land, and there came voices, and thunders, and lightnings, and a quaking.
New House New Stones
John in Tabernacle on Patmos
.................................
Revelation 1:2
Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
Revelation 1:9
I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Revelation 6:9
And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Revelation 12:17
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Revelation 15:5
And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened:
Revelation 19:10
And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
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Ttalkkugjil
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Where flight during persecution is possible without a truth-denial, it should be chosen. It'll be in the cause's interest, if the work's stopped by persecution in one city, to flee to another, where the reception will be different and Christ's cause thus furthered.
The "coming of Man's Son" is a term referring to the founding of Jesus' kingdom after his glorification, starting with the Pentecostal miracle. "You won't have finished the cities, there'll be room for your labors till the time of my entering into glory and the beginning of my work as the Church's Head."
The time's short and the work's great. Energy's needed.
In a proverb's form, Jesus adds another admonition. They shouldn't expect to be better off than Jesus, the Christian household's Head. To suffer the same injuries is their lot.
The enemies had gone so far as to apply the epithet Beelzebub to Christ. It'd be presumption for his followers to expect less.
When a person accepts God's Word, let them think nothing else than that they in that hour come into peril with reference to their goods, spouse, children, parents, also their own life.
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I understand the dilemma this presents and the answer is found in scripture but denies the normal belief of whom "all Israel",is.God is fair and righteous and has not left any man without a witness of Himself.
"Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"(Romans 1:19,20)
So men who act positively to the light shown to them are likely to get more light and hence attain to the revelation necessary for salvation.
The way I see "all Israel":
Romans 9:
27Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:
28For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.
29And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha.
With all this in mind what does the,"And so all Israel shall be saved:",really mean?
Does it mean that all Israel at a certain point in time will be saved?Why at that time if one should say yes?What is so special about them at that time?
In case you should point to the rest of the above verse which says:
"...as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:"(Romans 11:26)
It must be realised that it is only when the deliverer comes that ungodliness is removed according to this translation.How is this all Israel?What about those who existed before or after the deliverer came?
The passage in the Law and Prophets from which this is quoted actually help us to better understand what is intended:
Isaiah 59:
20And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.
21As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.
This actually shows that persons are not compelled to stop sinning as the passage in Romans may seem to imply but that the deliverer comes to those who have repented.If this is so and if we can assume all will not repent,then how is this "all Israel" ?
There must be another solution than to believe,all of national Israel which exists now,which still would not be all Israel,will be saved.
Many persons contradict themselves as they try to ignore the spiritual roots of the Church. They will admit that Acts 15:14 refers to an event which has already occurred. Acts 15:15-17 further elaborates to show that the scriptures i.e. Amos 9:11-12 agree with the event which has occurred. The Tabernacle of David was being built and Gentiles were becoming a part of this as Simeon said, (Acts 15:14; 10:44-48) i.e. they were becoming a part of the Church. Hence, the Church is the rebuilding of the Tabernacle of David and Gentiles were seeking the Lord through it (Acts 15:17). However,further on they will attempt to place the rebuilding in the future, as they quote Acts 15:14-16 and conveniently omit verse 17 which is linked to verse 14 and which, by their own admission has already occurred.
Paul also speaks of this rebuilding as he shows that not all who were physical descendants of Jacob were truly Israelites.
"...For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:" (Romans 9:1-6).
He (Paul) clearly states that God will call both Jews and Gentiles together to be His (God's) people i.e.His true Israel.
"Even us whom He hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? As He saith also in Hosea, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God." (Romans 9:24-26; Hosea 2:23;Isaiah 65:1; Romans 10:12-13, 20, 21).
The physical descendants of Israel who have not accepted Christ as Saviour have been cast off (Romans 11:15-20; Matthew 23:37-39).If they receive Christ, they shall then become a part of God's people i.e. true Israel (Romans 11:23-24). This does not apply to those who died out of Christ. They have perished as they died in their sins (John 8:20-24; Matthew 1:21).
All Israel to be saved will include all Gentiles and physical descendants of Jacob who have accepted Christ, i.e. the Israel of God (Romans 11:25-26; Galatians 6:16).
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That is not the point being made.That(in bold) was mentioned to support the authenticity of Luke.Luke also talked about the 12.And unlike Matthew,he identified when they left and their return.
Luke 9:1 Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases.
Luke 9:2 And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick.
Luke 9:3 And he said unto them, Take nothing for your journey, neither staves, nor scrip, neither bread, neither money; neither have two coats apiece.
Luke 9:4 And whatsoever house ye enter into, there abide, and thence depart.
Luke 9:5 And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them.
Luke 9:6 And they departed, and went through the towns, preaching the gospel, and healing every where......
Luke 9:10 And the apostles, when they were returned, told him all that they had done. And he took them, and went aside privately into a desert place belonging to the city called Bethsaida.
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Sounds like Mathew recorded much ,much more of what the Lord said to the 12.
Was Luke not paying attention or did Mathew add much more to what Jesus spoke?
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