Treat Far-Right Terror as the Threat It Is

FireDragon76 · Mar 16, 2019

Archaeopteryx said:
I'm sorry, but I do not see how that is helpful at all. There are people who believe in God—Christians even—who do some very horrible things. There are people who do not believe who also do horrible things. Pointing to an "invisible enemy" who is not evident and cannot be in any way held accountable seems to distract from the real issue, which is that some people do horrible things and we need to find ways of dealing with that in the real world.

On PBS News Hour yesterday a Muslim academic who tracks hate groups, pointed out we need more than political solutions and it needs to involve civil society, including churches. And of course, some Christians articulate moral struggles in terms of the imagery of spiritual warfare. So I don't think it is inherently wrong, just perhaps not a complete picture.

Now, if believing in Satan's invisible hand comes at the expense of actual solutions, then yes, I would think that is problematic. But I don't think that is an inevitable consequence.

FireDragon76 · Mar 16, 2019

devin553344 said:
I think more importantly for a Christian is that killing peaceful Muslims is evil because they haven't accepted the Savior yet, and perhaps would have one day. What does that mean? Unsure as I'm not God, but it appears evil.

This says too little. Killing an innocent Muslim is wrong because a Muslim is a human being with all the dignity of anyone else created in the image of God, whether or not they will eventually accept Jesus. Their life is their own, a murder is the ultimate form of theft, and therefore, very wrong.

devin553344 · Mar 16, 2019

FireDragon76 said:
This says too little. Killing an innocent Muslim is wrong because a Muslim is a human being with all the dignity of anyone else created in the image of God, whether or not they will eventually accept Jesus. Their life is their own, a murder is the ultimate form of theft, and therefore, very wrong.

Yes killing innocent people is wrong. I was merely exploring how evil it actually was.

Handmaid for Jesus · Mar 16, 2019

Archaeopteryx said:
I'm sorry, but I do not see how that is helpful at all. There are people who believe in God—Christians even—who do some very horrible things. There are people who do not believe who also do horrible things. Pointing to an "invisible enemy" who is not evident and cannot be in any way held accountable seems to distract from the real issue, which is that some people do horrible things and we need to find ways of dealing with that in the real world.

Well,that is a problem.I am not sure what humanist believe. Correct me if my assumption is wrong. Humanist believe there is no higher power than the human consciousness, right?
I agree that there are people who do horrible things, even those who claim to be Christians. But the Bible tells us that we can know them by their fruit. The fact is, there are spirit beings that are invisible to the natural sight. They do not want us to believe they exist. But God has to open your eyes to the truth. I cannot convince you

durangodawood · Mar 16, 2019

devin553344 said:
Yes killing innocent people is wrong. I was merely exploring how evil it actually was.

So killing a person who's soul is secure is..... less evil?

Handmaid for Jesus · Mar 16, 2019

durangodawood said:
So killing a person who's soul is secure is..... less evil?

That is not what he said! :doh:

He did not even imply that!

durangodawood · Mar 16, 2019

Handmaid for Jesus said:
That is not what he said! He did not even imply that!

He says "for a Christian is that killing peaceful Muslims is evil because they haven't accepted the Savior yet, and perhaps would have one day."

Well thats a layer of evil that doesnt apply to killing people who have accepted Jesus. He's drawing a distinction here to, in his words, explore "how evil it was".

I appreciate that he hasnt reached a conclusion.

devin553344 · Mar 16, 2019

durangodawood said:
So killing a person who's soul is secure is..... less evil?

Well let me ask you this: When a killer goes to court and is sentenced, are all killings handled the same way by the wisdom of the judges? No they are not. There is more evil that is considered and sentenced against. Would God judge similarly against killers? Perhaps. What do you think, is there degrees of evil that killers commit when killing? How would you sentence if you were a judge?

durangodawood · Mar 16, 2019

devin553344 said:
Well let me ask you this: When a killer goes to court and is sentenced, are all killings handled the same way by the wisdom of the judges? No they are not. There is more evil that is considered and sentenced against. Would God judge similarly against killers? Perhaps. What do you think, is there degrees of evil that killers commit when killing? Maybe they all go to the lake of fire and sentenced the same?

Well if God exists, surely his judgement isnt hamstrung by bluntly legislated sentencing guidelines. We should think He'd apply discretion according to whats in our hearts.

I do wonder that the victims relation to God should be a factor. Seems immaterial to judging the killers heart. But, fortunately, thats not my job.

devin553344 · Mar 16, 2019

durangodawood said:
Well if God exists, surely his judgement isnt hamstrung by bluntly legislated sentencing guidelines. We should think He'd apply discretion according to whats in our hearts.

I do wonder that the victims relation to God should be a factor. Seems immaterial to judging the killers heart. But, fortunately, thats not my job.

Yeah I'm not God either. But I can examine: If someone kills a Christian and there may be people they could have converted and helped the Savior with. And if someone kills someone who has not accepted Jesus it is clearly evil? Maybe it's damning either way?

Handmaid for Jesus · Mar 16, 2019

durangodawood said:
He says "for a Christian is that killing peaceful Muslims is evil because they haven't accepted the Savior yet, and perhaps would have one day."

Well thats a layer of evil that doesnt apply to killing people who have accepted Jesus. He's drawing a distinction here to, in his words, explore "how evil it was".

I appreciate that he hasnt reached a conclusion.

No. It is you drawing the distinction; it smacks of your starting a circular argument that goes nowhere and does not edify anyone.

devin553344 · Mar 16, 2019

durangodawood said:
Well if God exists, surely his judgement isnt hamstrung by bluntly legislated sentencing guidelines.

Have you read the books of Moses? And I'm trying to make friendly conversation by that

It's full of sentencing guidelines. And that should give you an answer to your question as to which is more evil. Although Jesus came to earth and blurred the lines.

Tenebrae · Mar 16, 2019

The ironic thing is the primary shooter and none of the other people arrested were on anyones watch list.

We are so caught up in the 'muslim terror threat' its made us blind to the danger of racism and white supremacy

Donald Trump rang our PM to offer support and she told him the best thing he could do was to protect and support all muslim communities.

Hank77 · Mar 16, 2019

OldWiseGuy said:
An expedited death penalty would help. And, teaching kids right from wrong would be helpful as well.

There have been many studies that do not support the idea the murders decrease when the death penalty is in effect.
http://www.dartmouth.edu/~chance/teaching_aids/books_articles/JLpaper.pdf

durangodawood · Mar 16, 2019

Handmaid for Jesus said:
No. It is you drawing the distinction; it smacks of your starting a circular argument that goes nowhere and does not edify anyone.

Um no. The person I responded to even confirmed I understood what he was getting at.

durangodawood · Mar 16, 2019

devin553344 said:
Have you read the books of Moses? And I'm trying to make friendly conversation by that It's full of sentencing guidelines. And that should give you an answer to your question as to which is more evil. Although Jesus came to earth and blurred the lines.

Those are all about worldly justice, right?.... which is presumably a very different matter than who's admitted to heaven.

btw, you do seem perfectly friendly.

JackRT · Mar 16, 2019

SarahsKnight said:
what you say also about turning neither to the right nor the left, being a proverb in the Bible, should also be a fair argument concerning political leaning, in that God would have us be neither Republican nor Democrat.

That is one of the reasons that I am a liberal. I can see certain policies that I admire and think to be practical both on the right and on the left and feel free to make them my own.

devin553344 · Mar 16, 2019

durangodawood said:
Those are all about worldly justice, right?.... which is presumably a very different matter than who's admitted to heaven.

btw, you do seem perfectly friendly.

Yes you could say worldly justice is in the Old Testament. Right it doesn't get into heaven as I remember. The new testament does however, but I feel this is the wrong topic to bring those scriptures to light. As it might sound condemning to some viewers. And in the light of the tragedy, I will just say killing Muslims is evil.

SummerMadness · Mar 16, 2019

Tenebrae said:
The ironic thing is the primary shooter and none of the other people arrested were on anyones watch list.

We are so caught up in the 'muslim terror threat' its made us blind to the danger of racism and white supremacy

Donald Trump rang our PM to offer support and she told him the best thing he could do was to protect and support all muslim communities.

The thing to note is the right-wing was all up in arms because Obama did not use the word terrorism, even if he used the word "terror." Notice that they are now silent as the current president refuses to call far-right wing terrorism, terrorism. Instead he tries to minimize it, say it's a small group, disturbed individual, and refers to it as a "horrible act." They're okay with this because the scourge of white supremacy does not affect them.

SummerMadness · Mar 16, 2019

Trump Still Won't Name ‘White Supremacist Terrorism' and His Base Loves It
Trump's response to the horrific New Zealand terror attack, and his refusal to name white supremacist terror, is a dog-whistle directly to his far-right base.

Donald Trump understands his base better than anyone. He gets what makes them cheer and what turns them off. And Trump's response to Friday's horrific white supremacist terrorist attack in New Zealand that saw 49 Muslims murdered was coldly calculated to play to them, especially his refusal to use the term "white supremacist terrorism."

But first there was to Trump's reaction to the terrorist attack on Twitter where he spoke of standing, "in solidarity with New Zealand" and declaring, "We love you New Zealand!" Great sentiment but where was the mention of Muslims, as in, "I stand with the Muslim community today"?! After all, the 49 victims were all Muslims killed in their place of worship because they were Muslim.

There's no doubt Trump's failure to say any kind words about Muslims was by design. Trump understands that would likely upset his base whom he has fed a diet of anti-Muslim hate, from declaring that "Islam hates us" to calling for a total ban on Muslims coming to this country, and his 2016 comment that takes on a different meaning after Friday's terror attack: "We're having problems with the Muslims coming into this country…You have to deal with the mosques, whether we like it or not.

Treat Far-Right Terror as the Threat It Is

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