AOC says state of America is "garbage"

Speedwell · Mar 12, 2019

Ana the Ist said:
Lol evangelicals???

Why millennials are really leaving religion (it’s not just politics, folks) - Religion News Service

Are Young People Really Leaving Christianity? | Cold Case Christianity

"The number of people who identify as “Evangelical” has remained somewhat steady during this time frame, at approximately 29%. The number of people who identify as having a “Non-Evangelical” affiliation is down from approximately 66% to 51%. The number of people who say they have no religious affiliation is up from approximately 8% to 23% during this same time frame."

Soooo....Christians leaving the church in droves. Evangelicals arguably haven't seen the decrease, but they certainly haven't increased. The only denomination I've seen increasing are the Catholics....and that's because about 95% of illegal immigrants are Catholics.

So if you think there's some "increasing right wing religious radicalism" you're just wrong.

Perhaps you should reevaluate where the left is failing.

I didn't say their numbers are increasing. In fact, I agree with the analysis you presented in your post.

Ana the Ist · Mar 12, 2019

Speedwell said:
I didn't say their numbers are increasing. In fact, I agree with the analysis you presented in your post.

Oh?

Speedwell said:
Did you read the article? She says "America has moved away from what it should be." I agree with her. America has moved away from our core values as it falls increasingly under the influence of right-wing religious radicalism.

So you've already changed your mind about your first post? Right wing religious radicalism is really the only group I can think of that gets less influential by the year.

Shiloh Raven · Mar 12, 2019

Speedwell said:
Moving away? Trump's Evangelical base seems pretty firm.

Speedwell said:
I didn't say their numbers are increasing. In fact, I agree with the analysis you presented in your post.

I addressed Trump's loyal support from Evangelicals yesterday in another thread. I don't know if you read that post or not, so I thought I would re-post it because it fits into what you are saying.

Trump has insisted that he has a great relationship with the Evangelicals. He said: “They say I have the most loyal people, where I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose any voters, okay? It's like incredible" (Donald Trump: They say I could ‘shoot somebody’ and still have support). Let's not forget some of the more prominent evangelicals leaders who clearly compromised their own moral convictions to support and defend Trump too. I think as a result of this unwavering support for Trump by so many Evangelical Christians, there have been articles with harsh content and titles: "evangelical's very public sin," "evangelicals sell their souls for Trump," "evangelical convictions for sell," "the great evangelical compromise," and "evangelicals abandon their principles" and other articles like the ones I posted earlier. It's certainly a terrible witness for Christians to have.

Speedwell · Mar 12, 2019

Ana the Ist said:
Oh?

So you've already changed your mind about your first post?

No, I never claimed that they were becoming more numerous.

Right wing religious radicalism is really the only group I can think of that gets less influential by the year.

In the long run, yes. That's why they know that Trump is their last hope, why they back him so aggressively, why they put up with his immoralities. They are still enough of a bloc that they imagine that if they can get the First Amendment neutralized through Trump's conservative court appointments there is still some hope for their political agenda.

Belk · Mar 12, 2019

So has anyone pointed out this is just saying "MAGA" in other terms?

Ana the Ist · Mar 12, 2019

Speedwell said:
No, I never claimed that they were becoming more numerous.

What's this magical method for increasing their influence then?

In the long run, yes. That's why they know that Trump is their last hope, why they back him so aggressively, why they put up with his immoralities.

I can't recall a candidate they backed any differently...but if you can, I'm curious who that would be?

They are still enough of a bloc that they imagine that if they can get the First Amendment neutralized through Trump's conservative court appointments there is still some hope for their political agenda.

I haven't seen anyone attacking the first amendment outside of the left. If you have any evidence of this though, I'd love to see it.

As for promoting their agenda...so does everyone else. There's nothing unique about that.

Finally, why would they see Trump as a "last hope" if their influence is increasing?

Speedwell · Mar 12, 2019

Ana the Ist said:
What's this magical method for increasing their influence then?

The threat of primary challenges to more moderate incumbents from Red states.

I can't recall a candidate they backed any differently...but if you can, I'm curious who that would be?

No, but this time they have given their support to an amoral, ignorant buffoon because he panders to their agenda.

I haven't seen anyone attacking the first amendment outside of the left. If you have any evidence of this though, I'd love to see it.

Come along. The "free exercise" clause is under constant attack by the Christian Right. Think of the recent Christian adoption agency case, for instance.

As for promoting their agenda...so does everyone else. There's nothing unique about that.

It is a uniquely un-American agenda.

Finally, why would they see Trump as a "last hope" if their influence is increasing?

For the very reasons you mentioned--that demographics are not on their side. Their influence will continue to increase only so long as Trump stays in office.

Ana the Ist · Mar 12, 2019

Speedwell said:
The threat of primary challenges to more moderate incumbents from Red states.

Yeah....I don't see that happening. They get the districts they can, but as I've already stated, their numbers aren't increasing.

No, but this time they have given their support to an amoral, ignorant buffoon because he panders to their agenda.
Come along. The "free exercise" clause is under constant attack by the Christian Right. Think of the recent Christian adoption agency case, for instance.

I can't say I'm familiar with that case. What part of it violates the first amendment?

It is a uniquely un-American agenda.

How so?

For the very reasons you mentioned--that demographics are not on their side. Their influence will continue to increase only so long as Trump stays in office.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. If demographics aren't on their side...how does that translate to "increased influence"?

Just because a politician may pander or pretend to be sympathetic to a certain group doesn't equate to "increased influence". I remember Obama with his whole "that could have been my kid" speech after the Trayvon Martin shooting...did that mean that the black community suddenly had an increase in influence?

Speedwell · Mar 12, 2019

Ana the Ist said:
View attachment 252766

Yeah....I don't see that happening. They get the districts they can, but as I've already stated, their numbers aren't increasing.

I can't say I'm familiar with that case. What part of it violates the first amendment?

How so?

I'm not sure what you mean by this. If demographics aren't on their side...how does that translate to "increased influence"?

Just because a politician may pander or pretend to be sympathetic to a certain group doesn't equate to "increased influence". I remember Obama with his whole "that could have been my kid" speech after the Trayvon Martin shooting...did that mean that the black community suddenly had an increase in influence?

Nice map. It reminds me of one in my old US history text.

USincognito · Mar 13, 2019

EastCoastRemnant said:
Actually the first 4 are about honouring and worshiping our Creator, who the Constitution recognizes. .

Could you cite where it does so?

USincognito · Mar 13, 2019

SinoBen said:
What is your definition or concept of "Christian Right"? Give some examples. I certainly do not see anything like that although I am observing from a distant land.

It's a well known and understood phenomenon here in America.
Christian right - Wikipedia

USincognito · Mar 13, 2019

Speedwell said:
The right-wing, mostly Evangelical Protestant supporters of the current administration. I gather that you have your on version of it down there in Oz, called Rise Up Australia.
Christian right - Wikipedia

Should've known someone would beat me to it.

SinoBen · Mar 13, 2019

USincognito said:
It's a well known and understood phenomenon here in America.
Christian right - Wikipedia

On cursory reading (though I detect a pejorative slant in the way the Wiki was written - not that I'm surprised) - and if I understood that the Christian right upholds Biblically based values and morals then I am one of those.

USincognito · Mar 13, 2019

SinoBen said:
On cursory reading (though I detect a pejorative slant in the way the Wiki was written - not that I'm surprised) - and if I understood that the Christian right upholds Biblically based values and morals then I am one of those.

You might want to read a little more in depth.

Speedwell · Mar 13, 2019

SinoBen said:
On cursory reading (though I detect a pejorative slant in the way the Wiki was written - not that I'm surprised) -

I don't. The article seems accurately descriptive to me. Perhaps you could point out examples of slant?

and if I understood that the Christian right upholds Biblically based values and morals then I am one of those.

That, in itself, is not enough. The Christian right is a political movement to impose those values on everybody in the country by law.

EastCoastRemnant · Mar 13, 2019

USincognito said:
Could you cite where it does so?

My apologies, I meant the Declaration of Independence...

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,

Speedwell · Mar 13, 2019

EastCoastRemnant said:
My apologies, I meant the Declaration of Independence...

So what turns the all but Deist "Creator" of the Declaration of Independence into the right-wing Evangelical Protestant "God of the Bible?"

EastCoastRemnant · Mar 13, 2019

Speedwell said:
So what turns the all but Deist "Creator" of the Declaration of Independence into the right-wing Evangelical Protestant "God of the Bible?"

Creator is Creator... there is only one. Deism only differs from Christianity in the relationship of God with us.

Speedwell · Mar 13, 2019

EastCoastRemnant said:
Creator is Creator... there is only one. Deism only differs from Christianity in the relationship of God with us.

Deism also differs from Christianity with respect to the political agenda of their respective adherents.

OldWiseGuy · Mar 13, 2019

Speedwell said:
It also provides for the "free exercise of religion" for the rest of us, however much that gets up your nose.

The "rest of us"????

AOC says state of America is "garbage"

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