Trump vowed to eliminate the debt in 8 years. He’s on track to leave it at least 50 percent higher.

rambot · Mar 12, 2019

whatbogsends said:
His rebuttal article talks about some potential accuracies of the implications of the statement, but admits that the statement :

"You know, there are a lot of us Americans who believe that we are going to have trouble someday paying back the interest on our debt because politicians have run up mountains of debt using other people's money," Fiorina said. "That is in fact precisely the way you ran your casinos. You ran up mountains of debt, as well as losses, using other people's money, and you were forced to file for bankruptcy not once, not twice, four times."

was Mostly True.

Quite the rebuttal.

I'd go as far as to rate the statement as "True", as what may be implied by the statement isn't part of the statement.

Wait,.....so he is, ALMOST literally, running the country the way he ran his casinos?

In time and with hindsight, I sincerely wonder if even Trump syncophants will be able to recognize his incredibly poor decisions.

Pommer · Mar 12, 2019

iluvatar5150 said:
One of his main selling points is his business acumen and several of his businesses have gone bankrupt.

If you threaten to default on debt, “maybe you can get a better deal!?”*

That doesn’t sound like someone who should be told that a good chunk of our National Debt are monies that we owe to ourselves.

*not an actual quote but Chpater 11 is an “after-loan renegotiation” that allows some return to the creditors, so at least it’s apt.

jgarden · Mar 12, 2019

Trump vowed to eliminate the debt in 8 years. He’s on track to leave it at least 50 percent higher

Given that the standard of living for the vast majority of Americans has not improved appreciably in decades, just who are the major beneficiaries of all this deficit sending - all one need do is follow the money trail starting with those "tax cuts" that were supposed to more than pay for themselves!

As for the national debt, with a President who is a "narcissist" in good-standing to his very core, it should come as no surprise that he is more than prepared to run up federal deficits to the "max" to ensure that he remains in the White House - especially if he were to be facing criminal prosecution once he leaves office!

OldWiseGuy · Mar 12, 2019

iluvatar5150 said:
First of all, Chapter 11 most certainly is "bankruptcy per se". That it allows for restructuring rather than complete liquidation doesn't mean that it's not bankruptcy.

Bankruptcy "per se" means financial ruin. Look it up.

iluvatar5150 said:
Second, while the accusation is somewhat ambiguous, it's not at all clear that it was accusing him of filing for personal bankruptcy.

Most if not all reports say that Trump has gone bankrupt so many times , or Trump has filed for bankruptcy so many times. Rarely a mention of Chapter 11 in the headline.

iluvatar5150 said:
Third, I fail to see how the distinction between personal and business bankruptcy is relevant in this context. One of his main selling points is his business acumen and several of his businesses have gone bankrupt.

Reorganization under the Bankruptcy Code is common in business, as he has rightly stated.

OldWiseGuy · Mar 12, 2019

rambot said:
Wait,.....so he is, ALMOST literally, running the country the way he ran his casinos?

In time and with hindsight, I sincerely wonder if even Trump syncophants will be able to recognize his incredibly poor decisions.

His casinos can't print their own money.

iluvatar5150 · Mar 12, 2019

OldWiseGuy said:
Bankruptcy "per se" means financial ruin. Look it up.

No, that's your made up definition. Bankruptcy is a legal status that an entity enters when it's unable to pay its bills. Individuals and businesses are both eligible for liquidation (chapter 7) or restructuring (typically, chapter 11 for business and chapter 13 for individuals).

Most if not all reports say that Trump has gone bankrupt so many times , or Trump has filed for bankruptcy so many times. Rarely a mention of Chapter 11 in the headline.

Because it doesn't matter. Bankrupt is bankrupt.

Reorganization under the Bankruptcy Code is common in business, as he has rightly stated.

Bankruptcy is common among individuals, too:
Soaring bankruptcy rates signal a 'coming storm of broke elderly,' study finds

USincognito · Mar 13, 2019

iluvatar5150 said:
I wonder how the folks who complained about Obama's "you can keep your doctor" statement will feel about this vow that wasn't based on anything but fantasies and falsehoods.

Many of his supporters and apologists don't care. Anything He says automatically becomes fact because He said it.

TLK Valentine · Mar 13, 2019

iluvatar5150 said:
I wonder how the folks who complained about Obama's "you can keep your doctor" statement will feel about this vow that wasn't based on anything but fantasies and falsehoods.

"Whatabout... Whatabout... Whatabout... Obama! Fast and Furious! Apology Tour! 'You lie!'"

TLK Valentine · Mar 13, 2019

OldWiseGuy said:
His casinos can't print their own money.

And even if they could, it would be a grotesquely stupid idea to rely on that.

KCfromNC · Mar 13, 2019

HTacianas said:
That will be the reason I will stop supporting him. We were talking in another thread about Trump, not promising, but at least entertaining the idea of a sale of Federal assets to retire the debt.

I'll take an aircraft carrier.

Hey, it isn't any more dumb than the idea of selling federal assets to pay for tax breaks for billionaires.

DaisyDay · Mar 13, 2019

OldWiseGuy said:
He should cut back a bit on defense spending as he is proposing giving the DoD more than they requested.

The military budget is his slush fund - all he has to do is declare an "emergency" and Congress will allow him to reallocate off-budget, evidently.

Aryeh Jay · Mar 13, 2019

TLK Valentine said:
And even if they could, it would be a grotesquely stupid idea to rely on that.

The casino thing has me wondering. In the 1960s and 70s the Mob controlled casinos made bank and managed to stay open even with the mob skimming 50% or more from the profits. I can’t understand how someone could have multiple casinos fail. It seems that the buyer of the former Trump Castle/Trump Marina is turning a fine profit in “Failing” Atlantic City, perhaps we should elect the CEO of Landry's INC to be the next President…

Aryeh Jay · Mar 13, 2019

OldWiseGuy said:
His casinos can't print their own money.

But if you are lucky, daddy can buy $3.5 million in chips…

TLK Valentine · Mar 13, 2019

Aryeh Jay said:
But if you are lucky, daddy can buy $3.5 million in chips…

It would appear that daddy can do a lot of things for you... if you just call him "daddy..."

OldWiseGuy · Mar 13, 2019

DaisyDay said:
The military budget is his slush fund - all he has to do is declare an "emergency" and Congress will allow him to reallocate off-budget, evidently.

That jury's still out.

OldWiseGuy · Mar 13, 2019

Aryeh Jay said:
The casino thing has me wondering. In the 1960s and 70s the Mob controlled casinos made bank and managed to stay open even with the mob skimming 50% or more from the profits. I can’t understand how someone could have multiple casinos fail. It seems that the buyer of the former Trump Castle/Trump Marina is turning a fine profit in “Failing” Atlantic City, perhaps we should elect the CEO of Landry's INC to be the next President…

Too much leverage in those loans.

Steve Petersen · Mar 13, 2019

Suddenly Democrats are deficit hawks.

TLK Valentine · Mar 13, 2019

Steve Petersen said:
Suddenly Democrats are deficit hawks.

It's all relative... some just want to bleed cash, others hemorrhage it.

FenderTL5 · Mar 13, 2019

KCfromNC said:
I'll take an aircraft carrier.

Hey, it isn't any more dumb than the idea of selling federal assets to pay for tax breaks for billionaires.

Margaret Thatcher is quoted as saying (in effect), "The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."
Well the problem with unbridled capitalism is that eventually you run out of other properties to buy. So, the GOP/Trump contemplating selling off government assets is no real surprise.
Neither was the change in the tax code that took the tax incentive of home ownership from the middle/working classes.
And as an aside to that last part, in my city Wall Street Firms are buying up thousands of homes in Nashville and the surrounding area, and turning them into rental properties. Resulting in rising real estate prices in the area and a shortage of affordable housing. (edited to add for linkage)

FenderTL5 · Mar 13, 2019

Steve Petersen said:
Suddenly Democrats are deficit hawks.

democrats = tax and spend
GOP = cut taxes and spend even more

Trump vowed to eliminate the debt in 8 years. He’s on track to leave it at least 50 percent higher.

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