Why Don't Christian's Witness About Jesus?

Thess · Mar 13, 2019

A_Thinker said:
The gospel is not in short supply here in America. It's in the local churches that dot our neighborhoods. It's on television, radio, and the internet. It's on bumper stickers on cars and trucks.

Perhaps more evangelism effort is directed toward peoples who don't have the gospel access that we do ...

You're absolutely right! That stuff is all over America. But you've missed point. And my point is, what if what we've been taught is a faulty system? All of us? Across the board? Be slow to judgment, and just be patient and hang in there with me. I'm not your enemy at all....I'm am on ALL of our sides, even those that I say are guilty. I'm about the Mysterious Plan. Doesn't anyone know? Doesn't anyone understand?

Thess · Mar 13, 2019

Ing Bee said:
I suggest some extensive study of the New Testament texts to answer the following questions:

What are we to be sharing? (i.e. What is the "good news" according to Jesus and the apostles?)

How are we to be sharing?

To whom are we to be sharing?

When are we to be sharing?

What "percentage" of the individual Christian life is proclamation vs. other things? (Is the kingdom about words or power? More transformation or more confrontation?)

What is the balance between corporate witness and individual sharing? (i.e. the church as the pillar and buttress of the truth)

Are all Christians equipped with the same spiritual gifts? Should we then expect all to be uniform in their proclamation?

Is there something unique about Paul and the other disciples mission or do we all have the same job description?

In passages discussing verbal proclamation, how many of then are directed at all believers? When that happens, what is the context and what is the emphasis?

Is 'the gospel' more frequently portrayed as something believers (as a group) are to cling to, be transformed by, and "adorned" or proclaimed on street corners to strangers?

Are "perfect strangers to the gospel" the basic kind of person Paul and Peter address, or do they more often speak in locations specifically dedicated to public proclamation of ideas or to individuals prepared for the news or indicating interest (e.g. Cornelius, Ethiopian eunuch,

After initially sharing in a town, do Paul and his associates continue to street preach or do they shift gears and focus on something different? Do they encourage everyone else to do so instead of them?

Keep in mind a few points:

'witness' in the N.T. always (when speaking of sharing the gospel) refers to those who physically saw Jesus with their eyes (a requirement for apostelship, see Acts 1). Therefore, no one today can properly be a 'witness' to the Christ in the biblical sense.

Paul (in his pastoral letters to Timothy and Titus) does not include gospel-sharing as a focus for believers, instead emphasizing godly, community-of-love behavior among unbelievers as the crucial link in drawing others to personal trust in Christ.

'testimony' (related to the word for 'witness' and where the term "martyr" derives) in the N.T. is most frequently connected to God's own testimony in the Son. The word is not used as a term of daily speaking on the part of Christians, but as a revealed truth (from God) that they cling to (see Revelation 11 and 12 for examples).

Paul considered that the gospel had gone out into the ends of the earth and had been heard by all in his lifetime ( Romans 10:14-21) and that he had accomplished all he was meant to do (2 Timothy 4)

'evangelist' appears only 3 times in the New Testament (Acts 21:8, Ephesians 4:11, 2 Timothy 4:5), all three times indicating specialized, spirit-gifted individuals, not the church in general

Happy studying!

Outstanding work. All of those points and questions have obviously had seasoned thought embedded all throughout them. I hope that people will take your post seriously. Considering the amount of arguing and defending....well, let's hope that God's Gracious Power would reveal Himself upon stubborn, fearful hearts and change them into hearts that test all things without fear.

Thess · Mar 13, 2019

ace of hearts said:
1. I don't try to knock down doors. If I detect the door is closed I move on about daily business.
2. There are to many busy bodies causing trouble when it comes to the cause of Christ.
3. The organized church very much impedes reaching others for Jesus.
4. I don't know of a church that disciples new Christians, leaving many to die after conversion. This isn't to say that some churches don't provide classes about their religion. That's much different from discipleship.
5. I do have a new neighbor of about 2 years who knows I'm a Christian and that's where the ball seems to stay. We've been very generous to each other. This week I gave 2-3 hours help in pouring concrete. Isn't the first time either.

So I'm very open to suggestions on how to go about reaching and disciplining other for Jesus.

Wow, I love EVERYTHING about your post. I love a humble heart that is eager to not only learn, but you're comfortable enough in your own skin and able to teach everyone in your group.

Here's what I would do, while you continue to gently lead others by your life and how you live....your total sense of obedience. Your actions must coincide with the Incredible book that you must know. Obedience generates confidence, and when you're confident, then you can share. But before you can share, we must ALL know what it is that we are to believe. Only until our beliefs are in proper order will we even have a change to properly submit to God, and no longer to people (fear).

So....I'd start reading all of Pauls writings, staring with Acts 7:56, I believe, where we first read of him as Saul. After reading Acts, then move on to his letters and move through them in chronological order. It's an unbelievable thing to do....and quite frankly, it changed my entire life. BTW....I'm asking you to do this because I know that you're already well familiar with basic scriptures at least. Then, I'd get another print out list of the entire bible that is also in chronological, written order and then proceeding right through the New Testabment, Pauls letters again and then on to conclusion.

If you do this, and if you make sure that you do not daydream, but diligently pay attention as if your very life depended on it, by the time you finish, you'll know exactly what you are to do in terms of witnessing. And this is the whole point....we MUST depend on the Holy Spirit....this is the key that I just wasn't taught about. No one modeled it for me....not one....and my old Brothers and Sisters are WONDERFUL, AMAZING people, but they didn't know the truth any more than I did....and our pastor certainly never expected us to learn, to really learn which is made evident in our changed lives. No, no one was ever punished....we just kept putting money in the plate while we continued to suffer, not understanding that we were suffering because we had placed a faulty faith into a faulty system.

But to witness in a specific way? I'd never lay that burden upon anyone, for that is the job of our Great and Almighty Holy Spirit. He decides what a person does and what a person does not do. Me? Regardless of the wild minds, here, that think they know me, I am utterly nothing and God has made it abundantly clear that He does not "require" me. No one here has to bash me....I'm already nothing, totally owned by God, so brash words and phrases are useless. So my clear point is, is that for each person that God enables to Witness about His Holy Son Jesus, those skills will be given. But in order to confidently give the Gospel, we've got to understand it....and as much as many refuse to accept, we cannot understand Righteousness and Holiness if we refuse to obey. For those who disobey are deceived and do not know God. And anyone that does not know God cannot enter His Kingdom. But for those who do obey, all that they will need will be provided. There is no need for fear. There is no need for concern on "men". The Power of the Spirit indwells us and His Spirit is Greater than mine....believe me, ask that God would grant you this Holy Power and He will give it to you. Take control of your life, give yourself to Him fully, wholly and completely, and when this is done, and when you ask for His Holy Spirit to cause you to do things and think things you've understood before....man, your Romans 12:2 Holy Transformation has begun!!!! And when this happens, you will realize that it is critical that we have our understandings of all thins in order....if not, to give a false or lacking Gospel, even in good intention, is eternally dangerous. Oh, but I assure you that when you really have the "love" (the Spirit) of God within you, you will instantly begin to know things without anyone on earth ever having told you. Test what I"m saying....you'll see.

I believe in you.

Thess · Mar 13, 2019

CitizenD said:
You are one person. That is a very small sample. And I wonder where it is you live because your claims almost beggar belief.

I have experienced at least three dozen, maybe more missionaries of various flavors knocking on my door in my almost 40 years. I've been approached probably 100+ times on street corners, subways, and near lecture halls or events. I've received invitations from friends to go to bible studies. I've received many direct mailers, probably 50+.

That's amazing. I've spent most of my life in the greater Seattle area. I've always loved people, love to talk, been in "service" my entire life, known hundreds of thousands though out my work and life, part of the church my entire life, etc.

But here's what's terrible....not one person in my own churches have ever made sure that I was actually saved. We are supposed to test the spirit within each person....to do otherwise is to disobey direct and clear teaching. Today's church's are pretty much all apostate....I can't see any way around it but I sure do hope that I'm desperately wrong, and if I am, a good wakeup and reminder is never a bad thing. Rest assured, something is about to happen and we need to be ready. Don't listen to me, do listen to me....I get it, but please, get ready.

Thess · Mar 13, 2019

DamianWarS said:
How long have you been a Christian and how did you become a Christian? Did you ever consider that no one told you about Christ because you already knew about Christ? What are you doing to tell others about Christ?

Baptized at 12 but it was a total joke and I finally had to admit it. My life was so filled with sin. From age 12, my life began to spiral. That's when I was first molested by my boyscout master; he enjoyed himself twice. The biological got divorced that year. At 16 I discovered cannabis and little did I know, it saved my life by showing me the truth of myself, which was that I was indeed a good person, that everyone around me wrong. I struggled with suicide from 12 to 27 and a little afterwards, about 16 years in all. I finally became a real Christian, I'd say, when I gave myself to God and He then, miraculously, has had me on a remarkable journey that no man could possibly script. God's Spirit came to me in as much Raw Power as my physical body could endure and it was something that words could never properly convey. That process started nearly three years ago.

Now that I know that I am loved by God in the most unbelievable of ways, my entire sense of thinking has changed. My entire self is no longer that which is once was. In fact, I don't remember what it was like to be so confused and scared, without even understanding it. I knew that I was off, in all things, I just didn't realize that what I was feeling was the actual embodiment of the Sin Nature itself. Living in Sin is a Spiritual Confusion that is undeniable....gosh, this place is filled with it, in fact, this forum is no different from the world. In fact, in fact, if I want to be abused, all I have to do is come here and I can be heaped upon for a simple opinion....and this is supposed to be "home" for me, a haven of sorts, but it's really a den of wolves. So you see? Everything is backwards...what is bad is good and what is good is bad.

No....no one talks about Jesus. Not REAL witnessing. No one even knows what the Gospel is. I've never had a discussion about it....ever. Oh sure, I've had the same discussions you've all had. Pft....I used to think that I knew the bible better than just about anything else in my life. That and music. I mean, I really thought I understood.....but I have been in this same terribly false system that we are in....and we are going to break out of it. It is wrong....It is desperately lacking.

I'm doing all kinds of things about this problem that I'm addressing. Because Christians do not witness on the whole, people are suffering. I've sold my house and am getting close to having nothing. When all is done, I will likely only own my set of drums, stored at anothers house, but other than that, I am almost ready to go where God sends me. I have taken a full year off and have been working diligently to make sure that what I say is accurate, firstly. I am currently in a time where I can come here, and contribute, but I do prefer to work with others who are suffering. I know what it is to hurt, to be weak, insecure and without confidence....just basic, regular confidence. I know what it's like to not have anyone in your church ask if you're alright. No one ever did that for me, and my parents paid the gay piano player to take me home and live with him....from 14.5 on. They never paid him for me....I was worthless....and this was done in front of an entire church. No one said a word....ever. So I understand what is happening in our churches, and I know that those who do not possess love are the ones whom do not reach out. I recently completed a lot of work with a Sister in Kenya, leading her to Jesus without agenda, and hopefully creating a way to get to that chruch and bring them as many blessings as I am able. I am also attempting to work on a few projects, one of which deals with Confidence, another regarding Black Sheep, another for BSOCS and I'm shooting for a movie script.

When I talk about witnessing, knocking on doors, while fantastic, is not what I'm thinking of. We need to reach as many as possible....the more the merrier! People are suffering and waiting for us. My life is not my own, thus I fully obey.

Thess · Mar 13, 2019

Monk Brendan said:
I hope you don't think that witnessing to Jesus is limited to door-knocking.

Our priest commented on the Epistle (Hebrews 11) this Sunday. "Faith is a gift. We show our faith in Jesus by how we act towards others. And this is a 24 hour job."

St. Francis said, "Preach always. Use words if necessary."

Nice, and thank you

Strong in Him · Mar 13, 2019

Thess said:
Baptized at 12 but it was a total joke and I finally had to admit it. My life was so filled with sin. From age 12, my life began to spiral. That's when I was first molested by my boyscout master; he enjoyed himself twice. The biological got divorced that year. At 16 I discovered cannabis and little did I know, it saved my life by showing me the truth of myself, which was that I was indeed a good person, that everyone around me wrong. I struggled with suicide from 12 to 27 and a little afterwards, about 16 years in all. I finally became a real Christian, I'd say, when I gave myself to God and He then, miraculously, has had me on a remarkable journey that no man could possibly script. God's Spirit came to me in as much Raw Power as my physical body could endure and it was something that words could never properly convey. That process started nearly three years ago.

Now that I know that I am loved by God in the most unbelievable of ways, my entire sense of thinking has changed. My entire self is no longer that which is once was. In fact, I don't remember what it was like to be so confused and scared, without even understanding it. I knew that I was off, in all things, I just didn't realize that what I was feeling was the actual embodiment of the Sin Nature itself. Living in Sin is a Spiritual Confusion that is undeniable....gosh, this place is filled with it, in fact, this forum is no different from the world. In fact, in fact, if I want to be abused, all I have to do is come here and I can be heaped upon for a simple opinion....and this is supposed to be "home" for me, a haven of sorts, but it's really a den of wolves. So you see? Everything is backwards...what is bad is good and what is good is bad.

No....no one talks about Jesus. Not REAL witnessing. No one even knows what the Gospel is. I've never had a discussion about it....ever. Oh sure, I've had the same discussions you've all had. Pft....I used to think that I knew the bible better than just about anything else in my life. That and music. I mean, I really thought I understood.....but I have been in this same terribly false system that we are in....and we are going to break out of it. It is wrong....It is desperately lacking.

I'm doing all kinds of things about this problem that I'm addressing. Because Christians do not witness on the whole, people are suffering. I've sold my house and am getting close to having nothing. When all is done, I will likely only own my set of drums, stored at anothers house, but other than that, I am almost ready to go where God sends me. I have taken a full year off and have been working diligently to make sure that what I say is accurate, firstly. I am currently in a time where I can come here, and contribute, but I do prefer to work with others who are suffering. I know what it is to hurt, to be weak, insecure and without confidence....just basic, regular confidence. I know what it's like to not have anyone in your church ask if you're alright. No one ever did that for me, and my parents paid the gay piano player to take me home and live with him....from 14.5 on. They never paid him for me....I was worthless....and this was done in front of an entire church. No one said a word....ever. So I understand what is happening in our churches, and I know that those who do not possess love are the ones whom do not reach out. I recently completed a lot of work with a Sister in Kenya, leading her to Jesus without agenda, and hopefully creating a way to get to that chruch and bring them as many blessings as I am able. I am also attempting to work on a few projects, one of which deals with Confidence, another regarding Black Sheep, another for BSOCS and I'm shooting for a movie script.

Thank you for sharing your story; that took courage.

Thess said:
When I talk about witnessing, knocking on doors, while fantastic, is not what I'm thinking of. We need to reach as many as possible....the more the merrier!

Yes, and how do you know we're not?
You said earlier, "no one is REALLY witnessing" - how do you know? Or are you talking about witnessing according to your definition?

OzSpen · Mar 13, 2019

Thess said:
I"m 51 and I'd say that I've had two different moments in my life when I was approached about Christ. Once was by a couple that knocked on my door from an actual Christian Church....

Two different occasions in 51.5 years? "Confidence Is From The Lord" is a false teaching folks. This evil statement along with, "Just Pray About It" are two of the most destructive false teachings rampant in the "Church" today.

Thess,

I agree that it is a major problem. My general experience is that the church is not equipping God's people for caring, communicative witnessing.

I seem to be older than you, but I ask you and me: How many times have we witnessed to other people and explained the Gospel in 51.5 years?

Oz

JacksBratt · Mar 13, 2019

Thess said:
I"m 51 and I'd say that I've had two different moments in my life when I was approached about Christ. Once was by a couple that knocked on my door from an actual Christian Church.

1. How is this even possible?
2. If this Church (the body of Christ) has abandoned "obedience" to such lengths, is there any reason to think that Jesus won't be returning soon?

[Rom 3:12 NLT] "All have turned away; all have become useless. No one does good, not a single one."

Two different occasions in 51.5 years? "Confidence Is From The Lord" is a false teaching folks. This evil statement along with, "Just Pray About It" are two of the most destructive false teachings rampant in the "Church" today.

God, forgive them all, for they know not what they do. But as for our false teachers whom have led us astray....may that Goliath millstone be tightly noosed and may you do to them as you did to the generation of Benjamites who raped honorable women to death!

As an answer to "why don't Christians witness about Jesus"?... Many don't know how. Many don't know the bible as well as any atheist.

On the other hand.. we should witness about Jesus all the time.. when necessary... use words.

It is our character, actions, life's walk, attitude, forgiving, show of love.... all these things are our witness about Jesus.

A_Thinker · Mar 13, 2019

Thess said:
I've been in the "church" my entire life. There were no rules that had to be met, there were no real expectations. We didn't have to pass any tests or classes, really, so as to move on because of what we had learned in Sunday School, etc. Everyone assumed that we all knew the same things, and sadly, maybe we did.

You have to realize ... that your christian experience ... is not, necessarily, the same as everyone else's christian experience.

Thess said:
Shorly after I was baptized, and with my long 1970's hair still wet, I proceeded to walk 1.5 blocks down the street and steal a bag of rubberbands for my newspaper business. I had no idea of what I had just done. "What, me? I just made a committment to be a.....a what? A SLAVE to Jesus?" I had no idea that I had made a public proclamation that I would abandon myself, completely and wholly, and dedicate my entire being to My lord, Master and Jesus. Of course, that day, the day of my baptism, my life just continued to spiral more and more out of control and deeper into sin. My church performed an incredible dis-service unto me, by allowing me to be baptized, which caused me to trust and believe that I really and truly was saved, a genuine "obedient" child of "God". But I was not. I no more had the Holy Spirit in me that Judas.

For instance, ... this was not my experience. So you can't project your experience onto all other American christians.

And, even, in your experience, God has reached you with His message. Your initial church experience might have been lacking, ... but God has a lifetime to reach you with His message ... and He has. Mission accomplished.

Now you need to let God complete His work with all of His other children ...

ace of hearts · Mar 13, 2019

Thess said:
I"m 51 and I'd say that I've had two different moments in my life when I was approached about Christ. Once was by a couple that knocked on my door from an actual Christian Church.

1. How is this even possible?
2. If this Church (the body of Christ) has abandoned "obedience" to such lengths, is there any reason to think that Jesus won't be returning soon?

[Rom 3:12 NLT] "All have turned away; all have become useless. No one does good, not a single one."

Two different occasions in 51.5 years? "Confidence Is From The Lord" is a false teaching folks. This evil statement along with, "Just Pray About It" are two of the most destructive false teachings rampant in the "Church" today.

God, forgive them all, for they know not what they do. But as for our false teachers whom have led us astray....may that Goliath millstone be tightly noosed and may you do to them as you did to the generation of Benjamites who raped honorable women to death!

It occurred to me I should ask theses questions of you -

how many doors have you knocked on in 51 years?
do you have a tract ministry where you distribute tracts in some way
what exactly are you doing to reach others for Jesus besides funding your church

FireDragon76 · Mar 13, 2019

SPF said:
Because many Christians are selfish. Penn Jillette, the famous magician is also an atheist. He said once on a podcast that one thing he didn't understand about Christians was why they didn't witness more. He said that if he saw someone stuck on some train tracks and there was a train coming that he would do everything he could to save the person and prevent them from being run over by the train.

He then said how Christians believe that all non-Christians are going to hell, which is a huge thing to claim. He then asked how unloving Christians have to be to not want to warn everyone around them.

He's right. If we really do believe in God... in Heaven, and in Hell... how much do we have to hate our neighbor to not warn them of what's coming their way?

I think we would all agree that the vast majority of Christians fail on this important calling. Thankfully there are Christians who witness, who minister, who are missionaries, who do love their neighbors and do witness. But certainly we could all do a lot better.

Thess - since this is so near and dear to your heart, would you mind sharing the successes you've had in sharing the Gospel? Perhaps you could be an encouragement to those reading since I would assume you wouldn't have written this if you weren't being pro-active yourself.

I personally try not to get caught up in eschatology. I do know that Christ is going to return, but I don't know when. In the meantime, I'll do my best to love my neighbors and point them towards Christ.

Penn Gilette is not exactly the best authority on spiritual things. The Gospel should be more than a sales pitch, like a vacuum salesman. Of course, Penn doesn't really care about that, because his respect is only feigned for a rhetorical point.

Most people assume, and I believe rightly, that religious instruction best happens inside a church.

Those religious groups that go around "witnessing" often do so in an intrusive fashion. I had a Baptist come to my door a year ago and it was easy to read through how he was subtlely questioning the adequacy of my religious beliefs, which as far as I am concerned is intrusive, rude, and sleazy. People should stop peddling the Gospel like they are door to door salesmen or cultists. God never commanded we do such a thing.

Just be an authentic loving person, let your light shine, as Jesus said. It is the Holy Spirit's job to draw people to God, it is not the result of rhetorical tricks or manipulative sleaze.

Foxfyre · Mar 13, 2019

topher694 said:
After this most recent rash of responses, I have a delicate recommendation to make to those of us who have been responding: I think that is to time to back off and leave it alone. By no means is anyone obligated to listen to me, but if you would like to know why I say that, feel free to message me.

I think you are probably right.

Gregory95 · Mar 13, 2019

Thess said:
I"m 51 and I'd say that I've had two different moments in my life when I was approached about Christ. Once was by a couple that knocked on my door from an actual Christian Church.

1. How is this even possible?
2. If this Church (the body of Christ) has abandoned "obedience" to such lengths, is there any reason to think that Jesus won't be returning soon?

[Rom 3:12 NLT] "All have turned away; all have become useless. No one does good, not a single one."

Two different occasions in 51.5 years? "Confidence Is From The Lord" is a false teaching folks. This evil statement along with, "Just Pray About It" are two of the most destructive false teachings rampant in the "Church" today.

God, forgive them all, for they know not what they do. But as for our false teachers whom have led us astray....may that Goliath millstone be tightly noosed and may you do to them as you did to the generation of Benjamites who raped honorable women to death!

Your experience shows the times we live in and thus shows how close we are to the day of Christ return

Also shows that what many call church is really a child of the harlot of Babylon (false church) more evidence of the age we live in.

And that Christ is not preached by those who profess the faith again shows the age we live in

Is this what you were saying?

SPF · Mar 13, 2019

FireDragon76 said:
Penn Gilette is not exactly the best authority on spiritual things. The Gospel should be more than a sales pitch, like a vacuum salesman. Of course, Penn doesn't really care about that, because his respect is only feigned for a rhetorical point.

Certainly, but his point is still well made and relevant. In my experience, I would say I unfortunately see little sense of urgency from the majority of Christians I interact with in relation to sharing the Gospel. There are certainly pockets of exceptions, but I think one area that Christianity here in America could do a lot better in, is evangelism.

I think as Church history plays out in front of us and we see the transition occurring from the majority of churches being mainline, large denominational churches, to smaller, local non-denominational, Bible based "community churches", or "Christian centers", that we might actually see more local impact and church growth.

FireDragon76 · Mar 13, 2019

SPF said:
I think as Church history plays out in front of us and we see the transition occurring from the majority of churches being mainline, large denominational churches, to smaller, local non-denominational, Bible based "community churches", or "Christian centers", that we might actually see more local impact and church growth.

I doubt it. It represents the weakness, fragmentation and privatization of religion as people respond to fear and mistrust of institutional belonging.

SPF · Mar 13, 2019

FireDragon76 said:
I doubt it. It represents the weakness, fragmentation and privatization of religion as people respond to fear and mistrust of institutional belonging.

In 1979 a non-denominational church was planted in Roswell, GA. At the time, there were no other non-denominational churches within 75 miles. The first Sunday, they had 25 people. The second Sunday, they had 100 people. These people were honestly taken aback at the Biblically based teaching they were hearing. It was encouraging, challenging, edifying. Third Sunday they had 300 as the people went back and shared with their friends. Aside from Andy Stanley's North Point Church, it's one of the largest non-denominational Churches around.

But I would even say that the non-denominational mega church is probably going to be on the decline going forward.

Denominations were inevitable once people were able to read Scripture on their own. Now, as American culture becomes more morally corrupt, and as large denominations follow suit with secular culture, I think the next step is the smaller, biblically based local non-denominational churches. Just look at the denominations.. You're Lutheran for example, but there are lots of Lutherans that would call other Lutherans apostate, based upon what Lutheran group they associate with.

I think the Methodist are clearly in line for a church split now that the UMC council actually did the right thing and upheld moral values and clear Biblical teaching. The majority of American churches were the liberal, morally compromised group that opposed it - thus I think this will lead to a denominational split.

Putting my prophetic hat on, I think smaller, local churches are going to be the future of the American Church as culture because more and more morally bankrupt. And I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing. I know for a fact that there are 6 small local church bodies with about 200-400 members each within 5 miles of my house - and they all have incredibly faithful and strong local outreach programs that have been great for my community. The members of those churches have had a greater impact on my local city than the Lutheran, Methodist, or Baptist churches ever have.

FireDragon76 · Mar 13, 2019

SPF said:
Denominations were inevitable once people were able to read Scripture on their own. Now, as American culture becomes more morally corrupt, and as large denominations follow suit with secular culture, I think the next step is the smaller, biblically based local non-denominational churches. Just look at the denominations.. You're Lutheran for example, but there are lots of Lutherans that would call other Lutherans apostate, based upon what Lutheran group they associate with.

In reality alot of LCMS and ELCA do not speak of each other in such harsh terms, especially our laity. There is actually a woman who belongs to our congregation that used to be in WELS, one of the most conservative synods in the US.

The denominationalism in Lutheranism in the US has more to do with the history of ethnic churches and is more complicated than simply people picking and choosing churches to suit their fancy based on self-selectetd criteria.

The majority of American churches were the liberal, morally compromised group that opposed it - thus I think this will lead to a denominational split.

I see it more like being broad-minded and socially responsible. Cults are infamous for believing they alone are right, but they are also notorious for engaging in social irresponsible behavior.

The members of those churches have had a greater impact on my local city than the Lutheran, Methodist, or Baptist churches ever have.

Producing more religious drones is not the same as producing faithful disciples of Jesus Christ who live out vocations responsibly in the real world.

And don't get puffed up about the Methodist's resolution. If not for Africans, Methodists would have decided a long time ago they were OK with changing the book of discipline.

A Realist · Mar 13, 2019

Thess said:
You're younger than me, therefore I am wrong. Ok....I wouldn't want to approach God with that line of reasoning, but suit yourself.

If confidence is from the Lord, then explain the problem of Moses. Explain the fear of David. Or, what happened to Peter in Galatians chapter two? And Barnabas was also led astray by Peter's fear and many others were led astray. Tell me why Paul was afraid for his life? Why was Paul afraid of Titus's disappearance, and then two chapters later, Titus appears without issue or harm? Paul actually packed up and left for Macedonia, BECAUSE OF UNECESSARY FEAR! And what happened to Timid Timothy? Come on....think about the scriptures rationally, or have you read them?

Just pray about it. The only time that I can recall this concept ever being demonstrated, what when Jesus explained that certain demons can be removed via prayer only. No where in the bible does it say to "only pray". No! Christians are the TRUE DNC, which stands for Do Nothing Christians.

BTW, calm down. I'm not your enemy. If you would drop the weak, insecure routine you have going, your mind could think clearly to see and understand my words. It's time to stop being offended and mature....and study your bible before you run around and correct everyone. You have much to learn.

Wow....

So exactly what are you doing to witness to others? You have yet to explain how we should be doing it. Please tell us, so we can better emulate you.

SPF · Mar 13, 2019

FireDragon76 said:
In reality alot of LCMS and ELCA do not speak of each other in such harsh terms, especially our laity. There is actually a woman who belongs to our congregation that used to be in WELS, one of the most conservative synods in the US.

The denominationalism in Lutheranism in the US has more to do with the history of ethnic churches and is more complicated than simply people picking and choosing churches to suit their fancy based on self-selectetd criteria.

The reality that I see is Lutheran's calling other Lutheran's apostate on this very forum.

FireDragon76 said:
I see it more like being broad-minded and socially responsible. Cults are infamous for believing they alone are right, but they are also notorious for engaging in social irresponsible behavior.

Being broad-minded and socially responsible is good... until it goes to the point of compromising the moral commands and teachings of Scripture. There is nothing good about a Church that endorses and accepts and encourages actions that Scripture consider sinful.

FireDragon76 said:
Producing more religious drones is not the same as producing faithful disciples of Jesus Christ who live out vocations responsibly in the real world.

And from what I see in the culture around me is that the religious drones tend to come from the local denominational churches as opposed to the growing, witnessing, and Bible preaching "community" churches. Which again is why I think we're seeing this trend become dominant in America.

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