Which causes me to ponder that those who are pre-trib might just be on the right track since so many in the world have such a problem with the idea.
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Which causes me to ponder that those who are pre-trib might just be on the right track since so many in the world have such a problem with the idea.
Oh.... the video you posted, they used Ray Comfort's name and He actually disassociated himself from that video.
Can you show Ray Comfort saying that, or are we supposed to believe these two?
To be fair, many pre-trib also take some liberties with the NT passages, but that doesn't negate that there is support in the OT for it.
The article below exposes how pretrib author Grant Jeffrey chopped up the writings of the early Church Fathers, in an effort to make your doctrine work.
In other words Jeffrey lied about what the ECF actually wrote.
Pretribulationist Revisionism
(Grant Jeffrey’s revision of early Church Posttrib viewpoints)
Pastor Tim Warner
http://www.4windsfellowships.net/articles/rapture_22.pdf
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Can’t really speak about Grant Jeffery, but Dr. Ken Johnson has done several books on the ECF writings and it seems from his work he never felt the need to do a hatchet job of editing what they said.
Do you have any of these books by Dr. Ken Johnson on your bookshelf that you can use to share some quotes from the Early Church Fathers for us?
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I do have some of Johnson’s books. I am out of state on business. There are quite a few videos of his lectures and such on YouTube. Not sure of what he says in a lot of them but if you want to check them out instead of waiting on me, go for it.
What the Early Church Fathers said on the subject is found below.
We do not have to buy one of Dr. Ken Johnson's books, or wait on you to find out.
Pretribulationist Revisionism
(Grant Jeffrey’s revision of early Church Posttrib viewpoints)
Pastor Tim Warner
http://www.4windsfellowships.net/articles/rapture_22.pdf
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This argument will continue in some form or another until Jesus comes and whisks all the believers back to heaven to see their mansions! i think then, the argument will cease.
I find it hard to credit, that a group of intelligent people are discussing scenarios of impossible things, as though they will actually take place.This argument will continue in some form or another until Jesus comes and whisks all the believers back to heaven to see their mansions! i think then, the argument will cease.
But what is most concerning, is the fact that the Prophetic Word does plainly tell us what God actually has planned for His people and the world in these last few years of the Church age
That people are unable to comprehend those prophesies, is told us by Jesus in Matthew 11:25 and 1 Corinthians 3:18-20, where those learned, so called wise theologians and Bible experts, cannot understand these truths. Also in Isaiah 29:9-12, we are told that people who choose to believe false theories will be blinded to the truth and 2 Thessalonians 2:11 says that God will place those with closed minds under a compelling delusion, which makes them believe what is false.
Then: 2 Thess 2:12 So that all who have not believed the truth, but made falsehood their choice, may be brought to Judgment.
Please explain that difference.That’s because you haven’t figured out the difference between justification and sanctification.
Keras, I'm sure you realize, and it should go without saying, that there are those of us who say the same exact thing about people who hold to your particular interpretation of Scripture.
What should lay the argument to rest, however, is the sweet spot in eschatological Scripture that is Paul's letters to the Thessalonians. Paul was a pre-tribber. He taught the Thessalonians about the rapture and the Day of the Lord. They believed him to the degree that when someone gave them a false message about them already being in the Great Tribulation and missing the rapture they thought Paul had lied to them.
There simply is no getting around that absolutely clear, unambiguous message that God gave to Paul to give to us.
'Course, as always, others may disagree.
Please explain that difference.
While you are at it, prove your beliefs with scripture. Of what earthly use are we, if we go to heaven?
Paul was a pre-tribber. He taught the Thessalonians about the rapture and the Day of the Lord.
Your reply bears no relation to my question.What of all the years between Shavuot 32AD and the GT period? You seem to be implying that out of the last 2000 years, only the 7 of the GT means anything. I am sure that is not what you meant, but it comes across that way.