The circumcision of Christ is water baptism: by his Spirit and in his name

psalm911 said:

And so, Peter learned that God has destined these Gentiles to be washed and he gave his Spirit to show his word would be fulfilled.

As it is written:


What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

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But still, there are those regenerated outside of water baptism. And I can see where that would happen today. Got someone in Iran or Saudi Arabia who becomes a Christian in prison and the authorities are not going to allow them to be water baptized; yet their lack of being water baptized does not prevent their entrance into the Kingdom. So although yes, we are to be water baptized as part of the walk of obedience; but it does not save us.

psalm911 said:

I have received the Holy Spirit without being water baptized into the body of Christ which is the reason I can understand these scriptures. But I also know that God will baptize me into the body of his Son and I know this by him giving me the Spirit of his Son. If I hated you I would not tell you the truth.

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So what you are saying is you have not been water baptized yet?

psalm911 said:

I have not yet been baptized into the body of Christ by the Spirit of God: but it will happen. But the Spirit that is in me is in the spirit in heaven.

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You understand that the "body of Christ" are those made up of the eternal Kingdom; don't you? Those who are not regenerated are not part of the Body, regardless of whether they've been water baptized or not.

If you've been baptized by the Spirit in Heaven and suddenly keel over and die from a brain anyerism while you're typing a response to me; you'll be "in the Body of Christ" in heaven. You understand that, don't you?

The Righterzpen said:

I understand the symbolism, yet there is recorded in Acts people who had received the Holy Spirit but were not water baptized until after the fact. So thus if you believe water baptism is required for salvation; how'd that happen?

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Because they received the Holy Spirit, Peter told them, they should be baptized with water. And when Paul met those who were baptized with water, the Holy Spirit was given to them through the laying of the hands. Water and spirit always go together.

psalm911 said:

The water in water baptism represents the word of God: the gospel: the resurrection of Christ.

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Baptism means to be born again. Christ said that one should be born again of water and spirit. Water is the washing away of sins and the spirit sanctifies so that one becomes a new creation.....to be born again.

Water and spirit have always been used to create something new. When God created the world, there was water and spirit. Genesis says that the Spirit hovered over the waters. In the Great Flood, there was water and spirit. The dove Noah sent out over the waters represent the spirit. After the Great Flood a new people was created from Noah. In the crossing of the Red Sea, there was water and spirit. And the slaves taken out of Egypt became the chosen people of God who became the nation of Israel. At Jesus baptism, water and spirit was present. Water and spirit brings in a new creation.

psalm911 said:

What more can I say, the spirit in you is not willing to learn but to teach: and I will not be taught by a man.

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Will you be taught by the Scripture?

I find it perplexing you cling to a doctrine that you claim to have the opposite experience of? You have no argument against what I say. You see the opposite of what you espouse to believe in the book of Acts; yet you choose to cling to your belief in "water baptismal regeneration"?

That is not the freedom of Grace.

Selene03 said:

Because they received the Holy Spirit, Peter told them, they should be baptized with water. And when Paul met those who were baptized with water, the Holy Spirit was given to them through the laying of the hands. Water and spirit always go together.

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Do you too believe in "water baptismal regeneration"?

I do not deny that people aught to be water baptized; yet people often put the cart before the horse. Obedience to what the word says is a result of regeneration; not a prerequisite to.

psalm911 said:

Although being born again is to water baptized into the body of Christ but the water you mentioned in John 3 is referring to water from a woman: the womb.

Galatians 3:26-27 King James Version (KJV)
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

27 BECAUSE as many of you as have been baptized into THE SON OF GOD have put on THE SON OF GOD.

This baptism baptizes a believer into the ressurected body of Christ and so it is written of the ressurection of Christ, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.


Acts 13:33 King James Version (KJV)
33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

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Remember in Matthew 20 when James and John's mother asked Jesus to allow her sons to sit one on His right and the other on His left?

Jesus first says - you have no idea what you are asking; and then says "....are you able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with"?

Now do you know what "cup" Jesus drank and what "baptism" he was baptized with?

Your answer actually comes out of the verse in Galatians here that you quoted. "As many as are baptized into Christ are baptized into His death."

So what was the "baptism" Jesus had to be baptized into.
He had to die. That was His "baptism".

Now what was the "cup" that He drank? That one is a little more directly answered in Revelation. Chapter 14 talks about the "wine of the wrath of God"
19:15 talks about Jesus "trending the winepress of the wrath of God" Psalm 78:8 speaks of a cup of God's wrath.
Jeremiah 25 also talks about the "wrath of God" as a "cup".

Matthew 26:39 talks about Jesus having this "cup" to "drink". He prays that the cup pass from him. Yet, not my will but Yours be done.

Back in Matthew 20:

James and John answer "Yes we can." And then Jesus says to them "You will drink of my cup and be baptized with the baptism I'm baptized with..."

James and John are not capable of enduring the wrath of God and being put to death to atone for sin; yet "in Christ" they suffer what He has suffered. This is how they (and all believers) are "baptized into His death".

Now the proof that Jesus overcame the wrath of God and conquered death is that He rose from the dead. This is why it says "Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life." Romans 6:4

That has nothing to do with water. The water is just a symbol.

"And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God." 1 Corinthians 6:11

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, (like water baptism) but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;" Titus 3:5

Now here comes a question "at ya" that's going to sound really stupid. It's a "Yeah duh." question: Who is all powerful in the universe? (Obviously the answer is God. Yeah duh!)

Now of the power of God; what is being dunked in a pool of water going to affect of His Divine decree? If you are sealed unto redemption by the Holy Ghost. If you are washed and regenerated unto redemption by the Spirit of God; than you ARE part of the body of Christ. There is no question about that. Nothing can take you out of the hand of God almighty; even if you are not baptized before you die! God is sovereign over all of it; and there are people in this world who are not afforded to be water baptized. That does not mean they are not legitimately saved.

I presume you have not been a Christian very long? And I'm just curious - why have you not been baptized yet? What are you waiting for, or what is "the church" waiting for?

I'll tell you a little story here:

My son is now 17 years old. When he was 9; he came to me and said he believed in Jesus and he wanted to be baptized. So I told the pastor of our church and his response was "The elders want to make sure he has a credible profession of faith."

Now nowhere in the Bible does it ever say that they waited to baptize someone. Usually upon profession of faith; they were baptized that day. There was no waiting to see if the "profession of faith" was "credible". You say you believe the gospel; we baptize you. If you turn out not to be a believer in the end - that's between you and God.

So we waited..... and waited....... and .......waited... (seven years passed)!

Now my son has autism and epilepsy. He also has a certain degree of "behavioral problems". He gets frustrated easily and "runs". He can't sit through an hour church service without being a distraction. Yet I know this kid's faith is real, because he's not afraid to die!

Having epilepsy and having a malformed blood vessel in his brain; he has been confronted with his mortality on several occasions. He has faced this in faith that he is secure in God's hands, even if this kills him.

Yet this church we were attending neglected to baptize him for the sake of preserving their own traditions. (Now there's a particular individual who rose from the dead who has a BIG problem with that!) "For by your traditions you make the command of God of none effect". Matthew 15:6

So last year my son was baptized at a Christian music festival we've been attending now for the past 3 years.

At any time in that 7 years, he could have had a major health crisis and died. Yet nothing - even the lack of obedience to the command of God that this church exhibited could separate him from the redemption Christ secured from the foundations of the world. (Revelation 13:8)

So yes, being water baptized is part of obedience; but in no way does it affect our salvation, or our being welcomed into His eternal body!

The Righterzpen said:

Do you too believe in "water baptismal regeneration"?

I do not deny that people aught to be water baptized; yet people often put the cart before the horse. Obedience to what the word says is a result of regeneration; not a prerequisite to.

Click to expand...

We simply call it baptism.

The Righterzpen said:

Remember in Matthew 20 when James and John's mother asked Jesus to allow her sons to sit one on His right and the other on His left?

Jesus first says - you have no idea what you are asking; and then says "....are you able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with"?

Now do you know what "cup" Jesus drank and what "baptism" he was baptized with?

Your answer actually comes out of the verse in Galatians here that you quoted. "As many as are baptized into Christ are baptized into His death."

So what was the "baptism" Jesus had to be baptized into.
He had to die. That was His "baptism".

Now what was the "cup" that He drank? That one is a little more directly answered in Revelation. Chapter 14 talks about the "wine of the wrath of God"
19:15 talks about Jesus "trending the winepress of the wrath of God" Psalm 78:8 speaks of a cup of God's wrath.
Jeremiah 25 also talks about the "wrath of God" as a "cup".

Matthew 26:39 talks about Jesus having this "cup" to "drink". He prays that the cup pass from him. Yet, not my will but Yours be done.

Back in Matthew 20:

James and John answer "Yes we can." And then Jesus says to them "You will drink of my cup and be baptized with the baptism I'm baptized with..."

James and John are not capable of enduring the wrath of God and being put to death to atone for sin; yet "in Christ" they suffer what He has suffered. This is how they (and all believers) are "baptized into His death".

Now the proof that Jesus overcame the wrath of God and conquered death is that He rose from the dead. This is why it says "Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life." Romans 6:4

That has nothing to do with water. The water is just a symbol.

"And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God." 1 Corinthians 6:11

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, (like water baptism) but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;" Titus 3:5

Now here comes a question "at ya" that's going to sound really stupid. It's a "Yeah duh." question: Who is all powerful in the universe? (Obviously the answer is God. Yeah duh!)

Now of the power of God; what is being dunked in a pool of water going to affect of His Divine decree? If you are sealed unto redemption by the Holy Ghost. If you are washed and regenerated unto redemption by the Spirit of God; than you ARE part of the body of Christ. There is no question about that. Nothing can take you out of the hand of God almighty; even if you are not baptized before you die! God is sovereign over all of it; and there are people in this world who are not afforded to be water baptized. That does not mean they are not legitimately saved.

I presume you have not been a Christian very long? And I'm just curious - why have you not been baptized yet? What are you waiting for, or what is "the church" waiting for?

I'll tell you a little story here:

My son is now 17 years old. When he was 9; he came to me and said he believed in Jesus and he wanted to be baptized. So I told the pastor of our church and his response was "The elders want to make sure he has a credible profession of faith."

Now nowhere in the Bible does it ever say that they waited to baptize someone. Usually upon profession of faith; they were baptized that day. There was no waiting to see if the "profession of faith" was "credible". You say you believe the gospel; we baptize you. If you turn out not to be a believer in the end - that's between you and God.

So we waited..... and waited....... and .......waited... (seven years passed)!

Now my son has autism and epilepsy. He also has a certain degree of "behavioral problems". He gets frustrated easily and "runs". He can't sit through an hour church service without being a distraction. Yet I know this kid's faith is real, because he's not afraid to die!

Having epilepsy and having a malformed blood vessel in his brain; he has been confronted with his mortality on several occasions. He has faced this in faith that he is secure in God's hands, even if this kills him.

Yet this church we were attending neglected to baptize him for the sake of preserving their own traditions. (Now there's a particular individual who rose from the dead who has a BIG problem with that!) "For by your traditions you make the command of God of none effect". Matthew 15:6

So last year my son was baptized at a Christian music festival we've been attending now for the past 3 years.

At any time in that 7 years, he could have had a major health crisis and died. Yet nothing - even the lack of obedience to the command of God that this church exhibited could separate him from the redemption Christ secured from the foundations of the world. (Revelation 13:8)

So yes, being water baptized is part of obedience; but in no way does it affect our salvation, or our being welcomed into His eternal body!

Click to expand...

On the contrary, a baptism of water and spirit can bring salvation, and this is why we baptize our infants. The parents speaks for them for they are responsible for bringing up their child into the Christian faith. The entire household of Cornelius was baptized with water when Peter saw that the Holy Spirit descended on the entire household. A family household consist of both children and adults.

Mark 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

1 Peter 3:21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.[fn] It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

The reasoning of the RCC being that when an infant is sprinkled they are also "Born Again" (spiritual rebirth).

Early on the RCC adopted "sprinkling" from Ezekiel 36:25-27 thinking it applied to their NC supersessionism as the Church having replaced Israel. However, those verses in Ezekiel refer to a future event in the Nation State of Israel that has yet to occur.
There is no NC scripture that supports the teaching of your Church. Their is no scripture in the NT/NC that supports your Churches teaching that infant baptism results in being born again.

Remember that the Bible is penned by Hebrew/Jewish men that knew nothing of the coming RCC.

AbbaLove said:

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The reasoning of the RCC being that when an infant is sprinkled they are also "Born Again" (spiritual rebirth).

Early on the RCC adopted "sprinkling" from Ezekiel 36:25-27 thinking it applied to their NC supersessionism as the Church having replaced Israel. However, those verses in Ezekiel refer to a future event in the Nation State of Israel that has yet to occur.

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The Catholic Church practices both full immersion in water and sprinkling on the head. Baptism is done to remove the Original Sin passed by Adam and Eve and to incorporate the person (infant and adults) as members of the People of God.

There is no NC scripture that supports the teaching of your Church. Their is no scripture in the NT/NC that supports your Churches teaching that infant baptism results in being born again.

Remember that the Bible is penned by Hebrew/Jewish men that knew nothing of the coming RCC.

Click to expand...

The New Testament itself, while it does not explicitly say when (or whether) believers should have their children baptized, is not silent on the subject. Luke 18:15–16 tells us that “they were bringing even infants” to Jesus; and he himself related this to the kingdom of God: “Let the children come to me. . . for to such belongs the kingdom of God.”

When speaking of “bringing someone to Jesus,” they mean leading him to faith. But Jesus says “even infants” can be “brought” to him. The fact is, the Bible gives us no way of bringing anyone to Jesus apart from baptism. Thus Peter declared, “Repent, and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you and to your children” (Acts 2:38–39).

The Church baptized whole “households” (Acts 16:33; 1 Cor. 1:16), a term encompassing children and infants as well as servants. While these texts do not specifically mention—nor exclude—infants, the very use of the term “households” indicates an understanding of the family as a unit. Even one believing parent in a household makes the children and even the unbelieving spouse “holy” (1 Cor. 7:14). Does this mean unbelieving spouses should be baptized? Of course not. The kingdom of God is not theirs; they cannot be “brought to Christ” in their unbelief. But infants have no such impediment. The kingdom is theirs, Jesus says, and they should be brought to him; and this means baptism.

Proponents of infant baptism assume that there were children in Cornelius’ house, Lydia’s family, the Philippian jailer’s house, and Stephanas’ house, and that the infants were baptized. Since there is no mention of infants in any of these passages, those who use these passages to justify infant baptism base their claims upon two assumptions: (1) infants were present in the households; and (2) the contexts of Acts 10 and 16 allow for the baptism of infants as part of “household baptisms.”

The context of these following verses suggest that the jailer's household were baptized by the Holy Spirit before the jailer brought Paul and Silas into his house.


There are other examples of household conversions, whose contexts attest to the fact that, when “households” of people were baptized, infants were not baptized. When the inspired writers mentioned the so-called “household baptisms,” they said that all believers in the households were baptized. To assert otherwise is to put an unnecessary strain on the text, and to teach that which contradicts unambiguous, definitive Bible teaching (see Mark 16:16; Acts 8:37-38; Romans 10:10-11).

Children are NOT babes or infants. Children can walk (“Let the children come to me. . .").

Also, remember that Yeshua/Jesus often spoke in parables and metaphors so only those with ears to hear and eyes to see would understand. Read Matthew 18:2-4 where we are to become as children (not infants) if we hope to enter His Kingdom. He set a child (not an infant) in the midst of them. Also read 1 John where the Apostle John refers to followers of Messiah Yeshua (Christ Jesus) as "little children."

You are welcome to believe your churches teaching. As some say, "I'm a Catholic and a Christian" in that order believing that because of their infant baptism they are born again. Who wouldn't want to become of such a belief if that was really true, but in fact the RCC is losing members. Apparently even some of the priests aren't really born again, so sprinkling an infant with water does not a Godly man or woman make (born again guarantee).