The Mark of the Beast

shilohsfoal

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Now address the problem of the time of the Church not known to the previous generations. As one who does not discern between two mountains ridges at the horizon, because he doesn't see the valley between them. the OT prophets do not discern the first coming of Christ from the second.

Daniel said he did not undestand.It wasnt given to him to understand.

https://biblehub.com/daniel/12-8.htm
https://biblehub.com/daniel/12-9.htm
Daniel 12:10 Many will be purified, made spotless, and refined, but the wicked will continue to act wickedly. None of the wicked will understand, but the wise will understand.

No one would understand till the time of the end.I know the pharisees claimed to have had an,underdtanding of these things as seen in Macabees and the antiquities of the jews by Joaephus who also was a pharisee.
Byt remember.Daniel was told the resurection would tale place at that time.Thete have bern those who have claimed the resurection has taken place.

https://biblehub.com/2_timothy/2-16.htm
https://biblehub.com/2_timothy/2-17.htm
https://biblehub.com/2_timothy/2-18.htm
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Daniel said he did not undestand.It wasnt given to him to understand.

No one would understand till the time of the end.I know the pharisees claimed to have had an,underdtanding of these things as seen in Macabees and the antiquities of the jews by Joaephus who also was a pharisee.
Byt remember.Daniel was told the resurection would tale place at that time.Thete have bern those who have claimed the resurection has taken place.
If you want to discuss the AOD, perhaps you and/or others may be interested in this thread:

Where is the abomination of desolation of Daniel, Matt and Mark shown in Revelation
Where in Revelation is the AoD mentioned in Daniel, Matthew and Mark showing in Revelation?
Any help on this would be appreciated. Thanks[/QUOTE]
Antiochus Epiphanes sacrificing a pig on the alter in the Temple in Macabbean times was an abomination of desolation.
The Roman soldiers under Titus in 70 AD carrying their standards into the Temple and destroying it was an abomination of desolation (and I think that was the one warned about in Olivet Discourse - and parallels Luke's 'when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies') .
But I don't know if Revelation records an abomination of desolation.
The abomination of desolation is 2 things in Revelation. First it is the man of lawlessness standing in the Most Holy Place in the temple. Then, through this he does this:

And it was allowed to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast might even speak and might cause those who would not worship the image of the beast to be slain. ~Revelation 13:15

This image of the beast is the abomination of desolation and he is empowered by standing in the Most Holy Place by sorcery and workings of evil to give breath to this image. This image is a stone statue of the man of lawlessness according to this scripture:

Woe to him who says to a wooden thing, Awake; to a silent stone, Arise! Can this teach? Behold, it is overlaid with gold and silver, and there is no breath at all in it. ~Habakkuk 2:19
Some say that the Abomination that causes Desolation was the Destruction of the Temple. Some say that the Temple was destroyed because James the Just was murdered. The remnant of Judah fled from Jerusalem when that finally happened. They will flee again when the two witnesses of God are slaughtered.

Their flight will go unnoticed, because the whole rest of the world will be partying like it's the last thing they will ever have on their mind. It is at this time that the remnant flock will go into hiding and be fed manna from God, while the scorpion's tail marks for destruction the children of the beast.
I don't know how to express my views on Biblical Prophecy except to word it that I believe in Dual Fulfillment and Multiple Fulfillment.

The classic example is Isaiah's "Behold, a virgin shall conceive". In the original Hebrew, that word ALMA denoted a young woman of marriagable age, with out a clear designation of virginity or not. I believe there was a young boy born in Isaiah's time, of natural conception, that was a literal fulfillment of Isaiah's prophecy. Long after this happenned, the Hebrew Scriptures were translated into Greek -- the Septuagint; in it -- PARTHENOS was used which is a "virgin virgin" unequivocably. So the same prophecy predicts the OT boy of an ALMA, and Christ of a PARTHENOS -- Dual Fulfillment.

It is Full Preterism's assertion that "this happenned - there will be nothing else in the future" that prevents me from swallowing it AS AN ESCHATOLOGICAL SYSTEM.

Daniel speaks of an Abomination of Desolation -- and most people know it happenned in time of Antiochus Epiphanes -- circa 167 BC. But Jesus in Olivet Discourse says one is COMING; to flee when you see Abomination of Desolation. It is historical fact that Christians fled to Pella and elsewhere circa 70 AD. Dual Fulfillment -- possible Multiple Fullfillment -- yes, a third AOD still to come
 
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Messenger 3k

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I missed the point you aimed at with the 7 years. I thought that you meant to say I'm asking for things that are quite self-evident. Sorry, my fault.


It's not just that the word isn't there.

The "remnant" is a theme on the OT: from the "northern" Israel, only a remnant will survive. This came true, the only person in the NT identified as a descendant of one of the 10 tribes is Hanna in Lk 2. The prophecy that only a remnant will survive came true, and (BTW) there is no need to search for "Lost tribes" - what is lost, is lost, and the remnant is now part of the Jews. And as to Judah, there also much was lost due to the Babylonians (and Judaeans fleeing to Egypt, see Jeremiah for more details).

Paul uses the theme in Rom 9:27-28 to describe the believers from the Jews as a remnant. If he wanted to say that only they would be saved, this would imply that what are now Jews are no part of the remnant, because those believers were part of the Christian church, and their descendants (unless they left Christianity at some times) are part of the Church until now.

But Paul does not stop at this remnant theme, he says that we believers from the pagans are used as a means to evoke the eagerness of the Jews, so they would turn to the Lord. When the number of the gentiles is full, the blindness on Israel will be removed and all Israel will be saved.

And then, when I look into Revelation, it speaks of Israel being protected (Rev 12) and sealed (Rev 7), while the believers from the nation had to go through the great tribulation. Not the Jewish believers.

It is not just that there is the word remnant missing, there is counter-evidence to your way reading it into Revelation.


I didn't say there would not be a third fulfillment of this prophecy. But what you hint at is not what I would call a fulfillment, but rather a sort of analogy.


Got it, you know more than me on that, I didn't look in much of pseudepigraphical literature, more into "apocryphes" that are part of RCC canon.


Relying on that would be nonsense, of course. You mentioned Henoch - what help can we expect from visions not inspired by the Holy Spirit? Nothing.

But it is not foolish to ask himself "has that prophecy been fulfilled in the past?". To answer it, you need some historical knowledge. If there was a fulfillment, and there is no hint in Scripture to a second fulfillment, any explanation that implies a fulfillment in the future is speculative and should be backed up by firmer evidence.

And a last remark:

Are you serious? 12,000 is no symbolic number? 12 tribes with the same number of members is no hint the numbers may be symbolic? I better don't say what I think of this kind of thinking ;)

EDIT: A futher sign for the 144,000 being symbolic is the list of tribes. Taken literally, it is awkward that Joseph and Manasseh are listed there, not Ephraim and Manasseh as one might expect, and it is awkward that not Levi is omitted (as one would expect from the status of that tribe) but Dan. But there is symbolic in that: Joseph meaning "may the Lord add", and as to Dan - I hope you will know about this man and tribe to see the symbolic!

If the list itself has symbolic in it, what about the numbers?


No worries. In the end, misunderstandings occur.
I also apologize concerning my rant on pseudepigraphical literatures. Absolutely unnecessary.

Here's the thing, Israel isn't just a geographical location, it's a people. The name itself stemed from a person, Jacob. You know this. So when scriptures talked about Israel in that context it was referring to a people; God's people.

And just to be clear I'm not implying that only Jews will be saved if that's what you're saying. I'm simply saying the remnant Jews will be sealed and protected some where in the wilderness, where the antichrist and his mark cannot get to them.

Understand that the Jews have gone through their own antichrist. This was antiochus. They're to be exempted from this coming one. They have gone through their own trial. This is our own trial. The coming antichrist is for us gentiles (I mean gentiles only because we aren't ethnic born Jews). The rest of unbelieving Jews will go through the antichrist because they technically aren't Jews by God's definition. The true Jews must be believers.

Revelation 2:9,
"I know your afflictions and your poverty—yet you are rich! I know about the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. (NIV)

Still on the theme of remnants, observe Romans 11 again. In verse 5-6 Paul is explicitly talking about being chosen. He is especially saying that given that it's a selection, the choice was based on grace not works. If you say all of Israel in it's entirety will be saved then you will be basing it on the work of just observing the laws and not on the grace of believing in Christ which only a select few do.

Notice in verse 7 it explicitly talks about the elect amongst all of Israel obtaining salvation and the rest being hardened. There would be no elect in the first place if all of the actual nation of Isreal were to be saved as you put it.

Romans 11:7,
"What then? What the people of Israel sought so earnestly they did not obtain. The elect among them did, but the others were hardened." (NIV)

In verse 30, Paul is also using the saved Christians (or gentiles) who exist out of the vast majority of unbelieving gentiles as an analogy for the chosen remnants. He is saying just as a select few of us believe in Christ by the Grace of God, a select few out of the vast majority of Jews will also believe in Christ by God's grace...so that all of Israel (Israel as far as God is concerned; His sovereign choice) will be saved.

About the 144,000; truth is I can't say for a certainty why Dan was omitted I suspect there's a deeper reason to it but it's not enough to dismiss all as symbolic; symbolic to what then? It was only ideal that since Dan was omitted someone had to replace him and this naturally fell on Manasseh, the first of the only two grandchildren recorded to have been also blessed by Jacob.

However not everything is recorded in scriptures. Dan and Gad plotted evil with the Pharoah against Joseph and his wife in the Story of Arsenath. Why Dan alone was omitted and not Gad as well is what I'm yet to figure out. Perhaps Dan orginally was the one resolved into the plot and merely convinced Gad to go along. I don't know, God knows.

Therefore, it is still not enough reason to pass Revelation 7 as symbolic.

Edit: Scriptures also never referred to the tribes as lost, only exiled; we referred to them as lost. And most likely used to mean lost to society not lost to mean wandering about a place.

Apparently, it was also deliberate. The book of Esdras says they couldn't dwell any longer in the region they were exiled to among the many gentiles so they moved further away towards the east, to a remote region where no one had ever lived before so they could hopefully keep their laws without disruption.
 
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helmut

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Let me ask you this...do you view the fall of Jerusalem 70ad in Revelation?
In Rev 11:8 we see the city where Jesus was crucified. This is true of the now "Old City" of Jerusalem, which by and large is where the roman troops were stationed after 70 AD, a camp that became he town of Aelia, which only centuries later regained the name Jerusalem (the name Aelia was still used in the decrees of the council of Nicaea).

The Holy Sepulchre is inside this city, but it was outside Jerusalem in Jesus' time (cf. Heb 13:12), on the other hand, the mount Zion was within Jerusalem in Jesus' time, but outside Aelia and the Old City, south of what is now the Muslim haram on the temple mount (there is a hill called Zion now inside the Old City, which is of no relevance to our subject). So the Lamb standing on mount Zion (Rev 14) is no contradiction to calling Aelia "Sodom and Egypt".

You should note that this city was a town no Jew was allowed to enter! After the second revolt, in 135 Jew were totally banned out of Judea and the land renamed as Palestine.

I think the fall of Jerusalem happened before the Revelation was given to John, if you date the book earlier, you may see a prophecy there.

I'm somewhat puzzled at what you write, do you want to suggest that the judgement of the harlot was just a prophecy to the fall of Jerusalem 70 AD? I hope not. But what do you want to say?
 
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Natsumi Lam

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helmut

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So when scriptures talked about Israel in that context it was referring to a people; God's people.
Some of the verses in OT about the remnant speak of Ephraim - the northern kingdom is meant. Not the territory, of course, but the people.

And just to be clear I'm not implying that only Jews will be saved if that's what you're saying
No, I did not understand you in that way.

I'm simply saying the remnant Jews will be sealed and protected some where in the wilderness, where the antichrist and his mark cannot get to them.
Cut the word "remnant" out of this sentence and that is what I say.

The rest of unbelieving Jews will go through the antichrist because they technically aren't Jews by God's definition. The true Jews must be believers.
This sounds like supersessionism. Paul speaks of Olive twigs broken out (unbelieving Jews), which God can and will re-implant into their tree.

If you say all of Israel in it's entirety will be saved then you will be basing it on the work of just observing the laws and not on the grace of believing in Christ which only a select few do.
No, I don't say that. It's not about being saved by works, it is about recognizing Jesus as messiah and to be saved by His grace.

Romans 11:7,
"What then? What the people of Israel sought so earnestly they did not obtain. The elect among them did, but the others were hardened." (NIV)
You talk around the crucial passages, esp. V.17-29. The perhaps most crucial verses are:
Rom 11:28 As touching the gospel, they are enemies for your sake: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sake.
29 For the gifts and the calling of God are not repented of.
The Jewish enemies of the church that don't believe in the Gospel will be the ones that repent and will be saved at last.
In verse 30, Paul is also using the saved Christians (or gentiles) who exist out of the vast majority of unbelieving gentiles as an analogy for the chosen remnants. He is saying just as a select few of us believe in Christ by the Grace of God, a select few out of the vast majority of Jews will also believe in Christ by God's grace...so that all of Israel (Israel as far as God is concerned; His sovereign choice) will be saved.

About the 144,000; truth is I can't say for a certainty why Dan was omitted I suspect there's a deeper reason to it
Dan was the first son of Jacob born from a concubine and not his regular wife Leah. Genesis 30:5-6.
Dan is called a juge, a serpent and an adder, which let the rider fall on his back Genesis 49:16-17.
Dan was the only tribe that didn't conquer the territory given to it by Joshua, but lost the whole territory and had to look after a new territory, Judges 18, and Dan practiced idolatry (worshiping an image of God) in this new place.
This was later replaced by a somewhat different idolatry by king Jerobeam 1.Kings 12:28-29.

This is plenty of reason to omit Dan, isn't it?

It was only ideal that since Dan was omitted someone had to replace him
In the OT, when Levi was omitted in the list of the 12 tribes (due to the fact the Levites had no territory of their own), Joseph was replaced by Ephraim and Manasse. Rev 7 says Joseph and Manasse. A reference to proselytes that were added to Israel?

However not everything is recorded in scriptures. Dan and Gad plotted evil with the Pharoah against Joseph and his wife in the Story of Arsenath.
I doubt that this is reliable tradition. Lets dismiss this sort of stuff.

Therefore, it is still not enough reason to pass Revelation 7 as symbolic.
A book full of symbolisms, numbers that have symbolism in them (12,000 and 144,000), all tribes having the same size (it was never so, neither in OT nor in NT times), this alone is enough to make symbolism probable. The issue of omitting Dan (not Levi) and inserting Manasse (instead of replacing Joseph by his two sons who were later counted as tribes) is only additional evidence.
 
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safswan

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What appears to be the same incident is recorded in Luke 9.

Luke 9:1 Then he called his twelve disciples together, and
gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases.
Luke 9:2 And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick.
Luke 9:3 And he said unto them, Take nothing for your journey, neither staves, nor scrip, neither bread, neither money; neither have two coats apiece.
Luke 9:4 And whatsoever house ye enter into, there abide, and thence depart.
Luke 9:5 And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them.
Luke 9:6 And they departed, and went through the towns, preaching the gospel, and healing every where.

Notice,it appears Jesus did not go with them:

Luke 9:10 And the apostles, when they were returned, told him all that they had done. And he took them, and went aside privately into a desert place belonging to the city called Bethsaida.

Compare:

Matthew 10:1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.
Matthew 10:2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;
Matthew 10:3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;
Matthew 10:4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.
Matthew 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Matthew 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Matthew 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Matthew 10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
Matthew 10:9 Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,
Matthew 10:10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.
Matthew 10:11 And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, enquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence.
Matthew 10:12 And when ye come into an house, salute it.
Matthew 10:13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.
Matthew 10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

Luke's account offers a solution which explains the phrase:

"..before the Son of Man comes."

Luke 10:1 After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come.
 
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helmut

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Luke's account offers a solution which explains the phrase:
"..before the Son of Man comes."
Luke 10:1 After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come.
This is no good solution. When Jesus speaks of the "Son of Man", he refers to Daniel 7, where the Son of Man ascends from the earth to the throne of God and is given dominance over the world.

This is Jesus, of course, but the coming of the Son of Man is His return from heaven to earth, when He will judge everybody.
 
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safswan

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So you don't believe what Paul say in Rom 11:25, that all Israel will be saved?

The harlot Isaiah condemned has been punished long ago by the Babylonians.


Whom do you consider "all Israel" to be and why?

Does all Israel include even to those Israelites who died without accepting Christ?
Does all Israel include the branches which were broken off?(Romans 11:17)
Would it include those who were blinded?(Romans 11:25)
Would it include the remnant who scripture says shall be saved?(Romans 9:27)
Does it mean that all Israel at a certain point in time will be saved?Why at that time if one should say yes?What is so special about them at that time?Why not the others before this time?
 
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helmut

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Whom do you consider "all Israel" to be and why?

Does all Israel include even to those Israelites who died without accepting Christ?
Does all Israel include the branches which were broken off?(Romans 11:17)
Would it include those who were blinded?(Romans 11:25)
Would it include the remnant who scripture says shall be saved?(Romans 9:27)
Died without accepting Christ: No.
Other questions: Yes.

Does it mean that all Israel at a certain point in time will be saved?
Paul links the turning of Israel to Christ with the resurrection of the dead, Rom 11:15.
 
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safswan

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This is no good solution. When Jesus speaks of the "Son of Man", he refers to Daniel 7, where the Son of Man ascends from the earth to the throne of God and is given dominance over the world.

This is Jesus, of course, but the coming of the Son of Man is His return from heaven to earth, when He will judge everybody.

Your statement in bold does not stand up to the scrutiny of scripture,as there is nothing that connects this passage to Daniel 7.Are you saying the following scriptures also refer to Daniel 7?

Matthew 8:20;9:6;11:19;22:8;12:32,40;13:37;16:13; 17:9,12,22;18:11;20:18,28;26:2,24,45.

The best way of interpreting the phrase, "..before the Son of Man comes.",is to understand the events at the time the statement was made.Luke's account helps in the chronology and helps us to see that Jesus first sent out the disciples and had the intention to go to those places they previously went to and hence it was also said:

Luke 10:1 After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come.

Hence he had said:

Matthew 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

Matthew's account would have the statement being somewhat isolated and strange but Luke's account,which explains the sequence of events more clearly,gives the context around the statement and insight as to what was meant.
 
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shilohsfoal

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Your statement in bold does not stand up to the scrutiny of scripture,as there is nothing that connects this passage to Daniel 7.Are you saying the following scriptures also refer to Daniel 7?

Matthew 8:20;9:6;11:19;22:8;12:32,40;13:37;16:13; 17:9,12,22;18:11;20:18,28;26:2,24,45.

The best way of interpreting the phrase, "..before the Son of Man comes.",is to understand the events at the time the statement was made.Luke's account helps in the chronology and helps us to see that Jesus first sent out the disciples and had the intention to go to those places they previously went to and hence it was also said:

Luke 10:1 After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come.

Hence he had said:

Matthew 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

Matthew's account would have the statement being somewhat isolated and strange but Luke's account,which explains the sequence of events more clearly,gives the context around the statement and insight as to what was meant.

Not to take anything from Luke but Matthew was present and is a first hand account.
 
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shilohsfoal

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What appears to be the same incident is recorded in Luke 9.

Luke 9:1 Then he called his twelve disciples together, and
gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases.
Luke 9:2 And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick.
Luke 9:3 And he said unto them, Take nothing for your journey, neither staves, nor scrip, neither bread, neither money; neither have two coats apiece.
Luke 9:4 And whatsoever house ye enter into, there abide, and thence depart.
Luke 9:5 And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them.
Luke 9:6 And they departed, and went through the towns, preaching the gospel, and healing every where.

Notice,it appears Jesus did not go with them:

Luke 9:10 And the apostles, when they were returned, told him all that they had done. And he took them, and went aside privately into a desert place belonging to the city called Bethsaida.

Compare:

Matthew 10:1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.
Matthew 10:2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;
Matthew 10:3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;
Matthew 10:4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.
Matthew 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Matthew 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Matthew 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Matthew 10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
Matthew 10:9 Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,
Matthew 10:10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.
Matthew 10:11 And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, enquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence.
Matthew 10:12 And when ye come into an house, salute it.
Matthew 10:13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.
Matthew 10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

Luke's account offers a solution which explains the phrase:

"..before the Son of Man comes."

Luke 10:1 After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come.

So how many of the twelve died while jesus was taking his little vacation?

Matthew 10:21 Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rise against their parents and have them put to death.
Matthew 10:22 You will be hated by everyone on account of My name, but the one who perseveres to the end will be saved.

Or what was Lukes account of how many of the disciples were betrayed by thier families and put to death while Jesus was away?
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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The second beast in Rev 13, in the later chapters called the False Prophet.

But as to "arrival in Jerusalem", I don't know what that should mean.
We can probably gleam some knowledge from the Hebrew OT on that concerning the "head and tail"

[Some here may want to check out my Revelation and allusions to the OT thread. or not........]

Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament

Let's look at the blessings and cursing upon Israel in Deut 28:

Deuteronomy 28:
13 ‘And Yahweh hath given thee for head, and not for tail;
and thou hast been only above, and art not beneath, for thou dost hearken unto the commands of Yahweh thy Elohim, which I am commanding thee to-day, to keep and to do,

44 “He shall lend to you, but you shall not lend to him; he shall be the head, and you shall be the tail.

Isaiah further identifies the head and tail of Israel:

Isaiah 9:
14 Therefore the LORD will cut off head and tail from Israel, Palm branch and bulrush in one day.
15 The elder and honorable, he is the head;
The prophet who teaches lies, he is the tail.

I can view the beast from the sea as perhaps symbolizing the 10 tribes of the house of Israel.
The Beast from the land I can view as the the 2 major tribes of Judah, Judah and Levi. [tho Pauls' tribe of Benjamin was part of the House].
Far fetched? Perhaps.
But no more far fetched than a lot of views I have seen on here regarding Revelation............

Revelation 13:
1 And I was standing on the sand of the sea, and I saw out of the sea a beast ascending having 10 horns and 7 heads
and upon the horns of it, ten diadems and upon the heads of it names of blasphemy.

11 And I saw another beast ascending out of the land,
and it had 2 horns like-as a lambkin and it spoke as a Dragon

Revelation 12:4
His tail drew a third of the stars of the heaven
and threw them to the land.
And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child as soon as it was born.

Practically the whole Bible concerns covenants and Israel and Judah.
And while translating Revelation, something about the 10 kings without a kingdom stood out.
The word kingdom was also mentioned by the Disciples in Acts 1 regarding restoring the Kingdom to Israel.
[I have a thread on it for those interested]

Acts 1:6 Restore Kingdom to Israel/10 KINGS One Mind Reve 17

Acts 1:6
The-ones indeed then coming together, asked Him saying, `Lord!, if in to-the time, this,
you are restoring the Kingdom to the Israel?'

Revelation 17:12
And the ten horns which you saw, ten kings are, who any a-Kingdom not-yet received<2983>,
but authority<1849> as kings, one hour they are receiving<2983> with the beast,
 
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helmut

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Your statement in bold does not stand up to the scrutiny of scripture,as there is nothing that connects this passage to Daniel 7.Are you saying the following scriptures also refer to Daniel 7?
There is no direct connection. But the term "Son of man" refers to the Son of Man in Dan 7. Jesus using this title claims that he will be the one who will rule and judge the universe.

The best way of interpreting the phrase, "..before the Son of Man comes.",is to understand the events at the time the statement was made.Luke's account helps in the chronology and helps us to see that Jesus first sent out the disciples and had the intention to go to those places they previously went to and hence it was also said:
Jesus coming to a village and the coming of the Son of man to earth are quite distinct.

Hence he had said:
Matthew 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.
How could the 12 disciples not finish to go to every town Jesus would go on His way? He did not say "until I come there", he said "till the Son of man be come".
 
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helmut

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We can probably gleam some knowledge from the Hebrew OT on that concerning the "head and tail"
Somewhat far-fetched.

Acts 1:6
The-ones indeed then coming together, asked Him saying, `Lord!, if in to-the time, this,
you are restoring the Kingdom to the Israel?'
This restauration will come when Jesus reigns in the millennium and the 12 apostles judge the 12 tribes of Israel. From an OT viewpoint, you would expect that there will be no much time between Jesus' ascension and His return. Jesus corrected their expectation: they do not know when He will come back, and that they have a task to fulfill.

The kingdom(s) of the beast is a quite different matter.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
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Somewhat far-fetched.
This restauration will come when Jesus reigns in the millennium and the 12 apostles judge the 12 tribes of Israel. From an OT viewpoint, you would expect that there will be no much time between Jesus' ascension and His return. Jesus corrected their expectation: they do not know when He will come back, and that they have a task to fulfill.
The kingdom(s) of the beast is a quite different matter.
My view is 1st Jerusalem/Temple showing in Revelation and hasn't changed since I first viewed it like that in 2003.

Admittedly, that 1000 yr period has been troublesome for Preterists and Amills.
It could be symbolizing 3 different events, perhaps a type of time, times, half a time. Don't know.
Do you view Luke 19:41-44 fulfilled in the 1st century or not?

Luke 19:
41 And as He nears, beholding the City, and He laments on Her,
43 That shall be arriving days upon Thee,
and Thy enemies shall be casting up a rampart/siege-work to Thee
and shall be encompassing Thee,
and pressing Thee from-every-side.
44 And shall be leveling Thee and Thy offspring in Thee, [Luke 21:20 Revelation 18:19]
and not shall be leaving stone upon stone in Thee,
stead which not Thou knew the season of the visitation<1984> of Thee".

Luke 21:
20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that Her desolation has come near.
24 “And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. [Revelation 13:10]
And Jerusalem will be trampled<3961> by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.” [Revelation 11:2]

The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19

Revelation 17
16 And the ten Horns which thou saw and the Beast, These shall be hating the harlot,
and They shall be making Her desolate<2049> and naked,
and the fleshes of Her they shall be eating<5315>
and shall be burning<2618> Her in fire.
17 For the GOD gives<1325> into Their hearts to do<4160> the mind<1106> of Him, and to do One mindand to give Their kingdom to the Beast
until shall be being finished<5055> the words of the GOD.

Revelation 18:
8 Thru this in one day shall be arriving<2240> Her blows,
death and sorrow and famine.
And in fire She shall be utterly burned<2618>,
that strong Lord the GOD, the One judging Her.
19 and they cast dust upon their heads, and cried<2896>, lamenting<2799>, weeping and mourning<3996>, saying,
"Woe! woe! the great City! in which are rich all those having ships<4143> in the sea, out of Her preciousness<5094>,
for to one hour was She was desolated<2049>.
 
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helmut

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Do you view Luke 19:41-44 fulfilled in the 1st century or not?
It was fulfilled in 68-70 AD. The Christians took the warning of Jesus and fled from Judea to Pella in what is now Jordan.

As to the other stuff:
Many cities were destroyed in history, two cities being desolated does not mean that the two are the same.

Too give a hint: The first country that got re-united as a consequence to the fall of communism was ... Yemen. Most people will say it was my country, because they lack some information. And Yemen is not Germany, of course!

Now apply this to Luke and Revelation ...
 
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