What's Our Relationship With God Like?

What's our relationship with God like?


  • Total voters
    12

Halbhh

Everything You say is Life to me
Supporter
Mar 17, 2015
17,172
9,191
catholic -- embracing all Christians
✟1,152,592.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I'm not sure I could totally agree with either option, as many pride themselves in the service of the Lord, not humbly. I've been around the block in some churches, and pride of service is always there with some members.

I kinda look at it like if God loves me then He may save me.

Christ tells us how to have assurance, but it's an if-then, both times:

For protection from the powers, the enemy:

22Then came the Festival of Dedication at Jerusalem. It was winter, 23and Jesus was in the temple courts walking in Solomon’s Colonnade. 24The Jews who were there gathered around him, saying, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.”

25Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all ; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.”
John 10 NIV

The enemy cannot ever take us from God's hand -- cannot trick us (like the cheap-grace-no-fruit fake version of the gospel for instance) -- if we listen to Christ, keeping His words in us (as also said in John chapter 15), so that His words are part of how we experience and think, so that He remains in us, and we in Him (John chapter 15).

And if we then do His words, even the worst storms will not destory our faith:

21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’ 24“Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. 26And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. 27And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell, and great was the fall of it.”
Matthew 7 ESV
(Notice the connecting work 'therefore' or 'then' in various translations in verse 24, to help people realize He is continuing to speak here, connecting the sentences together.)

Those who refuse to listen to Him, or refuse to keep His words, will of course have the outcome He says will happen.

Those who do listen to Him and keep His words will have the outcome He says will happen.

He is the way, the truth, and the life, and there isn't another way to the Father that is different than His way that we are to "love one another" (John chapters 14 and 15), forgiving, and loving more than only those who already love us, but to love all our brothers and sisters. Those who don't, as John points out in 1rst John are not His (but could convert still). John chapter 15 is invaluable to us, because nothing we do on our own could be real fruit, but instead our fruit is if we remain in Him, so that He/His words remains in us. John 15 NIV
 
Last edited:
  • Informative
Reactions: devin553344
Upvote 0

Tree of Life

Hide The Pain
Feb 15, 2013
8,824
6,243
✟48,077.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
Jesus demonstrated his humility. He did not need to work to achieve any more humility than He already had.

Paul says that Jesus humbled himself.

Philippians 2:8 - And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

I can't believe you've never heard this in church.
 
Upvote 0

devin553344

I believe in the Resurrection
Nov 10, 2015
3,607
2,249
Unkown
✟93,810.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
Paul says that Jesus humbled himself.

Philippians 2:8 - And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

I can't believe you've never heard this in church.

It also says later in that portion of the Scripture that Christ was exalted, so then if He's exalted now why would you think He should humble himself again? Philippians 2:9
 
Upvote 0

fhansen

Oldbie
Sep 3, 2011
13,884
3,525
✟320,712.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Which is it?
  1. "If I humble myself to serve God, then I will be saved and rewarded."

    OR

  2. "Only if God humbles himself to serve me will I be saved and rewarded."
Please explain your answer.
It's not either/or, but both/and, with He initiating. We humble ourselves in response to His humility. We love Him because He first loved us. He wants us to respond in kind.
 
Upvote 0

Jonaitis

Soli Deo Gloria
Jan 4, 2019
5,191
4,204
Wyoming
✟122,609.00
Country
United States
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Which is it?
  1. "If I humble myself to serve God, then I will be saved and rewarded."

    OR

  2. "Only if God humbles himself to serve me will I be saved and rewarded."
Please explain your answer.

God must condescend to us in a way that we can come to him...

So, how about both?
 
Upvote 0

Tree of Life

Hide The Pain
Feb 15, 2013
8,824
6,243
✟48,077.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
It also says later in that portion of the Scripture that Christ was exalted, so then if He's exalted now why would you think He should humble himself again? Philippians 2:9

I'm suggesting that God has humbled himself in the person and work of Christ in order to save us.
 
Upvote 0

Tree of Life

Hide The Pain
Feb 15, 2013
8,824
6,243
✟48,077.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
God must condescend to us in a way that we can come to him...

So, how about both?

I agree that both are very important. But I would suggest that God's humbling of himself is primary and most important.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: FireDragon76
Upvote 0

FireDragon76

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Apr 30, 2013
30,473
18,454
Orlando, Florida
✟1,249,087.00
Country
United States
Faith
United Ch. of Christ
Marital Status
Legal Union (Other)
Politics
US-Democrat
Which is it?
  1. "If I humble myself to serve God, then I will be saved and rewarded."

    OR

  2. "Only if God humbles himself to serve me will I be saved and rewarded."
Please explain your answer.


The second one is how we understand salvation. As Pastor states it around Christmas time, it's about God in diapers.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Dale

Senior Veteran
Supporter
Apr 14, 2003
7,161
1,223
71
Sebring, FL
✟657,505.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
Paul says that Jesus humbled himself.

Philippians 2:8 - And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

I can't believe you've never heard this in church.


I don't understand what you're trying to prove.

It's a good thing we haven't got any real problems so that we have time to talk about this.
 
Upvote 0

Tree of Life

Hide The Pain
Feb 15, 2013
8,824
6,243
✟48,077.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
I don't understand what you're trying to prove.

It's a good thing we haven't got any real problems so that we have time to talk about this.

I was inspired by a study of John 13 and Jesus washing the disciples feet. Peter would not allow Jesus to wash his feet at first. Peter thought that he would serve Jesus. He said he would lay down his life for Jesus. Peter was getting it backwards. Peter was actually in need of Jesus to serve him if he would be saved.

We too get it backwards. We think we will be saved if we humble ourselves for Jesus. But really we need him to humble himself for us in order for us to be saved.

I would argue that these are two radically different approaches to God. One is based on works and self righteousness. The other is based on the gospel.
 
Upvote 0

FireDragon76

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Apr 30, 2013
30,473
18,454
Orlando, Florida
✟1,249,087.00
Country
United States
Faith
United Ch. of Christ
Marital Status
Legal Union (Other)
Politics
US-Democrat
I agree. I'm honestly surprised that so few have voted for the second option.

Sadly, many churches in the US do not preach the Gospel. The focus on clean, "Christian" living, secular politics, magical thinking, but they do not focus on the Gospel.

I am happy to see somebody in the Reformed tradition passionate about it.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Tree of Life
Upvote 0

mark kennedy

Natura non facit saltum
Supporter
Mar 16, 2004
22,024
7,364
60
Indianapolis, IN
✟549,630.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
Look at John 13.

Peter's identity was: "I'm the guy who serves Jesus! I'm the guy who loves Jesus!" How did that end for Peter? Peter ended up denying Jesus and weeping bitterly in despair.

But what's John's identity? How does he identify himself in his gospel? "The one Jesus loved."

How do you identify yourself? Are you the one who loves Jesus? Or are you the one that Jesus loves? Which identity is most fundamental?
We love because he first loved us obviously.
 
Upvote 0

mark kennedy

Natura non facit saltum
Supporter
Mar 16, 2004
22,024
7,364
60
Indianapolis, IN
✟549,630.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
I agree. I'm honestly surprised that so few have voted for the second option.
Given my preference I would vote both brother, with one condition, he first loved us and gave himself for us.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

FireDragon76

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Apr 30, 2013
30,473
18,454
Orlando, Florida
✟1,249,087.00
Country
United States
Faith
United Ch. of Christ
Marital Status
Legal Union (Other)
Politics
US-Democrat
Pelagius said something similar.

Indeed. Definitely not Lutheran.

All you can bring to God is your sins, Jonathan Edwards was right about that. That is only something the proud could despise, because it is good news indeed. Somebody wants to take away the trash in your life... for free.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Halbhh
Upvote 0

mark kennedy

Natura non facit saltum
Supporter
Mar 16, 2004
22,024
7,364
60
Indianapolis, IN
✟549,630.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
I was inspired by a study of John 13 and Jesus washing the disciples feet. Peter would not allow Jesus to wash his feet at first. Peter thought that he would serve Jesus. He said he would lay down his life for Jesus. Peter was getting it backwards. Peter was actually in need of Jesus to serve him if he would be saved.

We too get it backwards. We think we will be saved if we humble ourselves for Jesus. But really we need him to humble himself for us in order for us to be saved.

I would argue that these are two radically different approaches to God. One is based on works and self righteousness. The other is based on the gospel.
You do know that Peter initially refused to have the Lord wash his feet right? Jesus told him if that's the case you have no part of me, basically telling him if you don't like it, there's the door. Then Peter says, wash all of me, Jesus says Peter, only your feet are dirty. Jesus did the work of the lowest of servants while the others worried about who would be the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. Jesus showed them greatness with a towel and a bowl of water, and frankly, he seems to have had a sense of humor about the whole thing.
 
Upvote 0

FireDragon76

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Apr 30, 2013
30,473
18,454
Orlando, Florida
✟1,249,087.00
Country
United States
Faith
United Ch. of Christ
Marital Status
Legal Union (Other)
Politics
US-Democrat
I wish more churches would have Pedilaviums (foot washings). I did that one year in the Episcopal cathedral at Maundy Thursday and it was very moving. Everybody got in a line and washed a stranger's feet, while the choir and congregation sang Ubi caritas. It is hard to internalize the scene of Jesus washing Peter's feet unless you re-enact it.

At my local Lutheran church, people just won't do that sort of thing. They are too worried about propriety and don't think its worth the fuss. The pastor had to fight just to get a passing of the peace, years ago when the synod starting encouraging it. Peter was worried about propriety too, and that could be a good teaching moment, I think.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

A_Thinker

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Apr 23, 2004
11,911
9,064
Midwest
✟931,284.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I was inspired by a study of John 13 and Jesus washing the disciples feet. Peter would not allow Jesus to wash his feet at first. Peter thought that he would serve Jesus. He said he would lay down his life for Jesus. Peter was getting it backwards. Peter was actually in need of Jesus to serve him if he would be saved.
We too get it backwards. We think we will be saved if we humble ourselves for Jesus. But really we need him to humble himself for us in order for us to be saved.
One must humble oneself to meet this humble God, ... as He resists the proud. The one who takes God's hand is the one who has given up on saving themselves.

Also, He, Himself, is too humble for many. To have a leader who would so humble Himself is anathema to many. We are called to follow the path of a humble Christ ...
 
  • Agree
Reactions: fhansen
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums