Jesus has no DNA from Mary

klutedavid · Mar 8, 2019

Jason0047 said:
It is definitely better to say that He suppressed His divine powers than to say He was stripped of His divine privileges (powers).

However, here are three powers that Jesus clearly expressed openly upon the Earth as being His own power.

#1. Jesus had the power to forgive sins and give eternal life (Mark 2:7) (Luke 7:44-50) (John 14:6).
#2 Jesus had power to take away the sins of the entire world (John 1:29).
#3. Jesus Christ said wherever two or three are gathered in my name, there I am among them (Matthew 18:20). This was said to the people he was around and not to just us today.

Agreed on this point.

Well, Jesus did give up sitting upon His throne in Heaven next to the Father.
But this was no doubt under God the Father's authority (of which He obviously agreed with). But it was still a giving up of authority of sorts. Jesus has the right to sit next to God the Father, but He gave up that right or authority to save us.

The problem you have is Jesus never gave up that divine authority. Whether Jesus is sitting on the throne while on Earth, which He could do anyway.

Jesus never declined divine worship. This one of the tricky points, Jesus was always God because no one can receive worship except God.

Jesus always claimed that He was not from here, Jesus said He came from above. Jesus did not originate at Bethlehem, Jesus passed through Bethlehem. Jesus called His mother, 'woman'. Jesus did not address His mother like we do.

Beneath that superficial appearance Jesus was the eternal Lord of Heaven and Earth, and everyone knew it both above and below.

Even the apostles began to realize that Jesus was not one of them. When Jesus stopped the storm on the lake, the apostles were terrified of Him. For good reason too, there was never anything remotely earthly about Jesus.

Sometimes Jesus relied on His Father and at other times Jesus exerted His own Royal power.

Above all, Jesus was an entirely Spiritual man in every way. I cannot detect anything in Jesus that is remotely similar to myself.

klutedavid · Mar 8, 2019

Jason0047 said:
The seed of a woman is her genetic code.

The LORD told the serpent that the woman’s seed (Eve’s DNA) would “bruise” his head.

Born of a woman!

Mary was not in union with anyone.

klutedavid · Mar 8, 2019

Jason0047 said:
So you don't believe Jesus was in the genetic lineage of Mary?
If so, then why be born inside a woman if that is the case?
Why not just come down directly from Heaven in a flesh like form?
It would suggest deception on God's part if Mary was in no way the actual mother genetically to Jesus. God does not need a womb to create a new life if Mary was not really the mother genetically for Jesus. God can raise the dead to life or create new life from out of the ground. No woman was needed.... UNLESS.... God promised that the Messiah would come from the line of David.

You got that right.

Jesus did descend from heaven to Bethlehem, that's exactly what happened.

No wonder there was constant wrangling over genealogy in the first century. No one could understand how it all worked.

klutedavid · Mar 8, 2019

Jason0047 said:
So you don't believe Jesus was in the genetic lineage of Mary?
If so, then why be born inside a woman if that is the case?
Why not just come down directly from Heaven in a flesh like form?
It would suggest deception on God's part if Mary was in no way the actual mother genetically to Jesus. God does not need a womb to create a new life if Mary was not really the mother genetically for Jesus. God can raise the dead to life or create new life from out of the ground. No woman was needed.... UNLESS.... God promised that the Messiah would come from the line of David.

God does not deceive.

Jesus is eternal and Jesus is not anyone's offspring. Your seriously pushing to be summoned to an inquisition.

klutedavid · Mar 8, 2019

Jason0047 said:
The seed of a woman is her genetic code.

The LORD told the serpent that the woman’s seed (Eve’s DNA) would “bruise” his head.

Born of the chosen woman, not the direct offspring of any woman.

Jesus came in human form, flesh and blood.

Your trying to CREATE a human Jesus and that is simply incorrect.

Ignatius the Kiwi · Mar 8, 2019

klutedavid said:
That is impossible, Mary and Joseph need to be joined, one flesh to produce an offspring.

Jesus took on our human form, Jesus was not created in human form like us.

Jesus does not have the genetic lineage of Adam. Born of a woman and that's all.

Mary was chosen to bear the child, Mary was not chosen to be the mother of God. Jesus always existed, Jesus was always the Word, Jesus was God on earth through and by eternal decree.

Jesus, our Creator, His Majesty, became one of us. Mary really has nothing to do with this at all. Mary was a temporal, earthly creature, merely chosen for a task.

One has to wonder why if he did not partake of Mary's humanity and gain his humanity from her, why he went through the process of birth to begin with. If Jesus is God as we believe what was the point of incarnating as a person? Why spend that much time in the womb of a woman unrelated to you, who is just an unimportant woman, why spend your childhood subject to her when she is not your Mother and thus don't owe anything to.Why not incarnate in the temple and announce to Israel your intentions? What was the point of Christ's human life?

Your viewpoint fails to take Christ's humanity seriously by saying it is not our humanity. Christ in this view is an alien, seemingly human but of a fundamentally different nature than ours. What am I left to conclude? God has not demonstrated that our sinful natures can be redeemed since he did not resurrect our nature in Christ's but Christ's own unique and perfect nature unrelated to ours.

My honest question to you is have you read Athanasius on the incarnation? Have you read the fathers on the nature of Christ's humanity and how great a theological point this is? If you haven't I don't think you've really engaged with the subject.

Bible Highlighter · Mar 8, 2019

klutedavid said:
The problem you have is Jesus never gave up that divine authority.

But Scripture shows us in numerous places that He still had divine power and He used it.

Jesus had power as GOD:

#1. Jesus said He has power to raise the dead to life just as the Father had power to raise the dead (John 5:21).
#2. Hebrews 1:3 talks about how Christ held all things together by the word of His power when He purged us of our sins.
#3. Jesus said, He would raise up this Temple (His body) three days later (John 2:19).
#4. Jesus had the power to forgive sins and give eternal life (Mark 2:7) (Luke 7:44-50) (John 14:6).
#5 Jesus had power to take away the sins of the entire world (John 1:29).
#6. Jesus Christ said wherever two or three are gathered in my name, there I am among them (Matthew 18:20). This was said to the people he was around and not to just us today.
#7. Jesus knew men's thoughts (Matthew 9:4) (Matthew 12:25) (Mark 2:8) (Luke 5:22) (Luke 6:8) (Luke 9:47) (Luke 24:38).
#8. Jesus knew about the lives of others (John 2:24) (John 4:17-18) (John 4:29) (John 6:64).

Sure, He did not showboat His own powers. That is part of what Philippians 2:6-9 is saying.

You said:
Whether Jesus is sitting on the throne while on Earth, which He could do anyway.

But Jesus was not on His own throne though. He gave it up to save us.

You said:
Jesus never declined divine worship. This one of the tricky points, Jesus was always God because no one can receive worship except God.

It's not tricky if He was 100% GOD.

You said:
Jesus always claimed that He was not from here, Jesus said He came from above. Jesus did not originate at Bethlehem, Jesus passed through Bethlehem. Jesus called His mother, 'woman'. Jesus did not address His mother like we do.

That is not proof that He was not his biological mother. I believe Jesus was making a spiritual point by saying this and it had nothing to do with what you are referring to here.

You said:
Beneath that superficial appearance Jesus was the eternal Lord of Heaven and Earth, and everyone knew it both above and below.

Yet, I do believe the Eternal Logos had suppressed His divine attribute of Omniscience, because Luke 2:52 says that Jesus as a child grew in wisdom, and in Luke 24:36, Jesus says to His disciples that He does not know the day or the hour of His own return.

You said:
Even the apostles began to realize that Jesus was not one of them. When Jesus stopped the storm on the lake, the apostles were terrified of Him. For good reason too, there was never anything remotely earthly about Jesus.

Jesus had to have the same kind of flesh we had otherwise salvation would not work.
For if Jesus took on horse flesh, then He could not redeem mankind.
Jesus had to take on the flesh of Adam to reverse the curse of what Adam had done to humanity. Jesus bore our sins within His body to pay the price for our sins. This had to be within the body of Adam's lineage. For in Adam all die, but in Christ all shall be made alive.

You said:
Sometimes Jesus relied on His Father and at other times Jesus exerted His own Royal power.

I believe that Jesus operated by the power of the Father, and the Holy Ghost at different times; But Jesus also operated by His own power, too (during his earthly ministry).

You said:
Above all, Jesus was an entirely Spiritual man in every way. I cannot detect anything in Jesus that is remotely similar to myself.

Right, which is why I believe in two possibilities in explaining the nature of Christ's divinity and humanity. I believe the Hypostatic Union is one possibility. However, the second possibility seems more likely to me (Although I cannot claim to know for sure based on the vagueness of the text). Anyways, if you are interested here is the thread.

CF Thread - Two Possibilities in Explaining Christ's Divine Behavior & His Limited Human Behavior.

klutedavid · Mar 8, 2019

Ignatius the Kiwi said:
One has to wonder why if he did not partake of Mary's humanity and gain his humanity from her, why he went through the process of birth to begin with. If Jesus is God as we believe what was the point of incarnating as a person? Why spend that much time in the womb of a woman unrelated to you, who is just an unimportant woman, why spend your childhood subject to her when she is not your Mother and thus don't owe anything to.Why not incarnate in the temple and announce to Israel your intentions? What was the point of Christ's human life?

Your viewpoint fails to take Christ's humanity seriously by saying it is not our humanity. Christ in this view is an alien, seemingly human but of a fundamentally different nature than ours. What am I left to conclude? God has not demonstrated that our sinful natures can be redeemed since he did not resurrect our nature in Christ's but Christ's own unique and perfect nature unrelated to ours.

My honest question to you is have you read Athanasius on the incarnation? Have you read the fathers on the nature of Christ's humanity and how great a theological point this is? If you haven't I don't think you've really engaged with the subject.

I know who Jesus is and who He has always been. Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever. Jesus never ever became someone else at any time.

Jesus could never be described as that Jewish boy with a questionable descent. Never did Jesus allow anyone to see Him other than who He claimed to be.

Jesus spoke in the first person to His Father and that was heresy to the Jews. Jesus only ever spoke in the very words of God Himself. Jesus only ever acted as the Holy One would act.

Your Jesus is far to human for my liking, just Mary's son. I feel like I'm in the first century, sitting among people that do not know who Jesus is.

Not the Glorious and Righteous One that gave up His life so that we would inherit life.

Cis.jd · Mar 8, 2019

johnnywong said:
Jesus has no DNA from Mary, because Mary is a surrogated mother only.

Then there will be no need of Immaculate Conception: the conception of the Virgin Mary free from original sin by virtue of the merits of her son Jesus.

Gestational surrogacy was first achieved in April 1986. It takes place when an embryo created by in vitro fertilization (IVF) technology is implanted in a surrogate, sometimes called a gestational carrier.

Gestational surrogacy may take a number of forms, but in each form the resulting child is genetically unrelated to the surrogate.

Holy Spirit created the embryo of Jesus inside Mary.

Then he isn't the messiah then because he's not a descendent of david.

klutedavid · Mar 8, 2019

Jason0047 said:
But Scripture shows us in numerous places that He still had divine power and He used it.

Jesus had power as GOD:

#1. Jesus said He has power to raise the dead to life just as the Father had power to raise the dead (John 5:21).
#2. Hebrews 1:3 talks about how Christ held all things together by the word of His power when He purged us of our sins.
#3. Jesus said, He would raise up this Temple (His body) three days later (John 2:19).
#4. Jesus had the power to forgive sins and give eternal life (Mark 2:7) (Luke 7:44-50) (John 14:6).
#5 Jesus had power to take away the sins of the entire world (John 1:29).
#6. Jesus Christ said wherever two or three are gathered in my name, there I am among them (Matthew 18:20). This was said to the people he was around and not to just us today.
#7. Jesus knew men's thoughts (Matthew 9:4) (Matthew 12:25) (Mark 2:8) (Luke 5:22) (Luke 6:8) (Luke 9:47) (Luke 24:38).
#8. Jesus knew about the lives of others (John 2:24) (John 4:17-18) (John 4:29) (John 6:64).

Sure, He did not showboat His own powers. That is part of what Philippians 2:6-9 is saying.

But Jesus was not on His own throne though. He gave it up to save us.

It's not tricky if He was 100% GOD.

That is not proof that He was not his biological mother. I believe Jesus was making a spiritual point by saying this and it had nothing to do with what you are referring to here.

Yet, I do believe the Eternal Logos had suppressed His divine attribute of Omniscience, because Luke 2:52 says that Jesus as a child grew in wisdom, and in Luke 24:36, Jesus says to His disciples that He does not know the day or the hour of His own return.

Jesus had to have the same kind of flesh we had otherwise salvation would not work.
For if Jesus took on horse flesh, then He could not redeem mankind.
Jesus had to take on the flesh of Adam to reverse the curse of what Adam had done to humanity. Jesus bore our sins within His body to pay the price for our sins. This had to be within the body of Adam's lineage. For in Adam all die, but in Christ all shall be made alive.

I believe that Jesus operated by the power of the Father, and the Holy Ghost at different times; But Jesus also operated by His own power, too (during his earthly ministry).

Right, which is why I believe in two possibilities in explaining the nature of Christ's divinity and humanity. I believe the Hypostatic Union is one possibility. However, the second possibility seems more likely to me (Although I cannot claim to know for sure based on the vagueness of the text). Anyways, if you are interested here is the thread.

CF Thread - Another alternative or possibility to explaining Christ's behavior being divine and human.

Spare me your human understanding.

Jesus was God, is God, and always will be Lord.

Regardless of how you think you see Him, He never changes. Sure He had people fooled but they did not know who He was.

Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."

Not the words of some Jewish lad. You don't need to look for very long at Jesus to realize the real deal.

klutedavid · Mar 8, 2019

Cis.jd said:
Then he isn't the messiah then because he's not a descendent of david.

No father, this disqualifies the lineage. I stick with how Paul appraised it, born into the house of David.

In one way Jesus is a descendant of David, yet we have God in human form. So the human lineage is debatable at best. How could anyone claim Jesus was a descendant of David, because Jesus did not originate at Bethlehem.

I believe the best way to look at this issue is to look at Jesus in the heavenly realms. That's because that is who He is, our Lord.

Bible Highlighter · Mar 8, 2019

klutedavid said:
I know who Jesus is and who He has always been. Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever. Jesus never ever became someone else at any time.

Jesus could never be described as that Jewish boy with a questionable descent. Never did Jesus allow anyone to see Him other than who He claimed to be.

Jesus spoke in the first person to His Father and that was heresy to the Jews. Jesus only ever spoke in the very words of God Himself. Jesus only ever acted as the Holy One would act.

Your Jesus is far to human for my liking, just Mary's son. I feel like I'm in the first century, sitting among people that do not know who Jesus is.

Not the Glorious and Righteous One that gave up His life so that we would inherit life.

Scripture says that He was wounded for our transgressions and He was crushed for our iniquities. How can He be crushed and wounded for our transgressions if his body was not in the same lineage of Adam?

Jesus also said salvation was of the Jews.

Jesus is called the King of the Jews. I think it would be kind of weird if he was some alien looking person who did not even look like a Jew. He had to be a Jew so as to be a king for His people.

Bible Highlighter · Mar 8, 2019

klutedavid said:
Spare me your human understanding.

Jesus was God, is God, and always will be Lord.

Regardless of how you think you see Him, He never changes. Sure He had people fooled but they did not know who He was.

Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."

Not the words of some Jewish lad. You don't need to look for very long at Jesus to realize the real deal.

So you don't think Jesus was Jewish?

klutedavid · Mar 8, 2019

Jason0047 said:
So you don't think Jesus was Jewish?

Jesus was God.

Bible Highlighter · Mar 8, 2019

klutedavid said:
Spare me your human understanding.

Well, I provided Scripture to back up what I said. Perhaps if you explained those verses?

You said:
Jesus was God, is God, and always will be Lord.

Regardless of how you think you see Him, He never changes. Sure He had people fooled but they did not know who He was.

Right, and I believe Jesus came down from Heaven as the Eternal Logos. So we are not in disagreement that Jesus is God. We are in disagreement over whether his flesh was divine or if it was of the lineage of Adam. I choose to believe the many verses in Scripture that say that Jesus was genetically of the line of Adam.

Again, how do you interpret "seed of a woman" as not referring to her physical body in some way? Common sense tells us that the seed of a woman would be the part of her body that makes it possible to have children. This is a part of her genetics or DNA.

Jesus is said to be the king of the Jews.
Nobody ever suggested that He was a Gentile or some foreign alien.

Jesus refused to go to Gentile areas during his Earthly ministry (Which suggests that He was a Jew).

You said:
Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."

Again, I am not in disagreement that Jesus is God and that He knew Abraham. If you were to check out my other thread, you would see my other explanation on the Incarnation.

Bible Highlighter · Mar 8, 2019

klutedavid said:
Jesus was God.

Right. I believe that, too. But I am speaking of his physical body that was a man.
Was it a divine body or was it a Jewish body that was of Jewish descent?
Why all the deception of having a genealogy in Luke 3 if He was not really genetically in line of those descendants?

Bible Highlighter · Mar 8, 2019

Why all the deception to be like a Jew if He really was not a Jew?

Kenny'sID · Mar 8, 2019

EastCoastRemnant said:
If Christ had no human DNA, then He would not be called the son of man and could not relate to us in our temptations and sufferings to become our High Priest. Because the first Adam caused the sin problem, there needed to be a second Adam to solve it.

Exactly so, I'd have to ask johnnywong how he knows there is none of Mary's DNA present?

Natsumi Lam · Mar 8, 2019

klutedavid said:
Born of a woman!

Mary was not in union with anyone.

You believe that seed means being born but not including her DNA?

Natsumi Lam · Mar 8, 2019

Why was the lineage of Christ so important if, some believe, Mary had no DNA to contribute?

Jesus has no DNA from Mary

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Dissident

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Well-Known Member

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Well-Known Member

Preparer of the Bride

Preparer of the Bride

Similar threads