Jesus has no DNA from Mary

TuxAme

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The sinlessness of Mary (her immaculate conception) is a heresy plain and simple. The scriptures make it clear from the start that Jesus was to be the Savior of Mary as well as the rest of mankind.
It's the furthest thing from heresy. You only call it a heresy because you don't understand the teaching. Mary was conceived in the same state that the Old Eve was- sinless. The only difference between the two is that, like Jesus (the New Adam), Mary (the New Eve) never disobeyed God. The two of them never ate the fruit from the tree that God told them to avoid. In no way does God choosing to exercise His saving power in a unique way for the mother of Christ eliminate the fact that she needed a savior.
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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Where does it say that Jesus needed to overcome temptation?
In the desert with Satan... we also see it in the garden of Gethsemane when He is in anguish pleading for Grace as His humanity did not want to drink the cup. He was tempted in all ways as we are but knew not sin... it doesn't say "was immune from sin".
We all understand that temptation is not sin but the contemplation on the temptation. When ever we feel a victory over a temptation through pleading with the Father, it's not us that accomplishes it but that same Spirit that Christ drew on, the Spirit of His Father.
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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It's the furthest thing from heresy. You only call it a heresy because you don't understand the teaching. Mary was conceived in the same state that the Old Eve was- sinless. The only difference between the two is that, like Jesus (the New Adam), Mary (the New Eve) never disobeyed God. The two of them never ate the fruit from the tree that God told them to avoid. In no way does God choosing to exercise His saving power in a unique way for the mother of Christ eliminate the fact that she needed a savior.
There is no scriptural evidence for that belief, only man's opinion.
 
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TuxAme

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There is no scriptural evidence for that belief, only man's opinion.
Which one? The Immaculate Conception, or Mary's place as the New Eve and Jesus' as the New Adam? You won't find either (in their totality) explicitly stated in Scripture, but this is why we don't stop at the explicit.

Regardless, something doesn't have to be found in Scripture to be true. That opinion didn't exist in the early Church. That idea is an extremely late invention.
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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Which one? The Immaculate Conception, or Mary's place as the New Eve and Jesus' as the New Adam? You won't find either (in their totality) explicitly stated in Scripture, but this is why we don't stop at the explicit.

Regardless, something doesn't have to be found in Scripture to be true. That opinion didn't exist in the early Church. That idea is an extremely late invention.
I agree that there is obviously truth outside of scripture but not of things found in scripture... not reliable, "I'll stake my life on it" truth anyways.

Your mileage may vary....
 
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Jesus has no DNA from Mary, because Mary is a surrogated mother only.

Then there will be no need of Immaculate Conception: the conception of the Virgin Mary free from original sin by virtue of the merits of her son Jesus.

Gestational surrogacy was first achieved in April 1986. It takes place when an embryo created by in vitro fertilization (IVF) technology is implanted in a surrogate, sometimes called a gestational carrier.

Gestational surrogacy may take a number of forms, but in each form the resulting child is genetically unrelated to the surrogate.

Holy Spirit created the embryo of Jesus inside Mary.

It doesn't make any sense. Surely God can make a miracle to happen without the use of Mary if He wanted to. But He didn't. The Messiah is said to be of the seed of the woman in Genesis 3:15. Besides, there would be no need for her to be some sort of carrier for Jesus if God has the power to speak the universe into existence. He could just be formed without being in any womb if He wanted to do that. But that's not what happened.
 
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klutedavid

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In the desert with Satan...
I did not see Jesus struggling with sin in the desert with Satan, in the way that we struggle with sin. Jesus just quotes the scripture to the devil and that's the end of those temptations.
we also see it in the garden of Gethsemane when He is in anguish pleading for Grace as His humanity did not want to drink the cup. He was tempted in all ways as we are but knew not sin... it doesn't say "was immune from sin".
The garden of Gethsemane was about giving up His life for us, not so much a struggle with coveting His neighbor's oxen.

Jesus knew no sin.
 
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Jesus has no DNA from Mary, because Mary is a surrogated mother only.

Then there will be no need of Immaculate Conception: the conception of the Virgin Mary free from original sin by virtue of the merits of her son Jesus.

Gestational surrogacy was first achieved in April 1986. It takes place when an embryo created by in vitro fertilization (IVF) technology is implanted in a surrogate, sometimes called a gestational carrier.

Gestational surrogacy may take a number of forms, but in each form the resulting child is genetically unrelated to the surrogate.

Holy Spirit created the embryo of Jesus inside Mary.

Actually, the lineage of Jesus is important according to prophecy. You see, Jesus had to be born in the line of David according to 2 Samuel 7:12-13. Referring to David, these verses say, "When your days are over and you rest with your fathers, I will raise up your offspring to succeed you, who will come from your own body, and I will establish his kingdom. He is the one who will build a house for my Name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever."

Source used:
Lineage of Jesus
 
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klutedavid

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It doesn't make any sense. Surely God can make a miracle to happen without the use of Mary if He wanted to. But He didn't. The Messiah is said to be of the seed of the woman in Genesis 3:15. Besides, there would be no need for her to be some sort of carrier for Jesus if God has the power to speak the universe into existence. He could just be formed without being in any womb if He wanted to do that.
Yes that is true, but Jesus had to become like us in all ways. That way He could set the perfect example for us, kindness, compassion and love.

Jesus was from above, Jesus was sent by His Father to us. Jesus was the perfect spiritual man, Adam was mere flesh and blood.

Adam gave us death and Christ gave us life.

The incarnation was a miracle, a virgin bearing this Royal Child was a profound miracle. There was nothing ordinary or natural about Jesus.

Jesus had only one Father and He was in heaven.
 
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Yes that is true, but Jesus had to become like us in all ways. That way He could set the perfect example for us, kindness, compassion and love.

Jesus was from above, Jesus was sent by His Father to us. Jesus was the perfect spiritual man, Adam was mere flesh and blood.

Adam gave us death and Christ gave us life.

The incarnation was a miracle, a virgin bearing this Royal Child was a profound miracle. There was nothing ordinary or natural about Jesus.

Jesus had only one Father and He was in heaven.

I see the Hypostatic Union or that Jesus had a human soul / human mind as one possibility that can be true (based on Colossians 1:19, and Colossians 2:9); While I accept it as a true possibility, it is not as clearly spelled out thing within Scripture. I believe there is another possibility to explain His divine behavior and His human behavior but I am forbidden to explain that here in this section of the forums.
 
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klutedavid

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Actually, the lineage of Jesus is important according to prophecy. You see, Jesus had to be born in the line of David according to 2 Samuel 7:12-13. Referring to David, these verses say, "When your days are over and you rest with your fathers, I will raise up your offspring to succeed you, who will come from your own body, and I will establish his kingdom. He is the one who will build a house for my Name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever."

Source used:
Lineage of Jesus
Still Jesus was from above, Jesus told us this many times.

John 3:13
No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.

John 3:31
He who comes from above is above all, he who is of the earth is from the earth and speaks of the earth.

John 3
He who comes from heaven is above all.

John 6
33 For the bread of God is that which comes down out of heaven, and gives life to the world.

John 6
38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.

John 6
58 This is the bread which came down out of heaven; not as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live forever.

John 6
62 What then if you see the Son of Man ascending to where He was before?

John 7
29 I know Him, because I am from Him, and He sent Me.

John 8
14 Jesus answered and said to them, “Even if I testify about Myself, My testimony is true, for I know where I came from and where I am going.

John 8
23 And He was saying to them, “You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world."

John 8
42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God.

John 8
58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.”

John 13
3 Jesus, knowing that the Father had given all things into His hands, and that He had come forth from God and was going back to God.

John 16
28 I came forth from the Father and have come into the world; I am leaving the world again and going to the Father.

John 16
30 Now we know that You know all things, and have no need for anyone to question You; by this we believe that You came from God.

John 17
8 for the words which You gave Me I have given to them; and they received them and truly understood that I came forth from You, and they believed that You sent Me.
 
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Still Jesus was from above, Jesus told us this many times.

John 3:13
No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.

John 3:31
He who comes from above is above all, he who is of the earth is from the earth and speaks of the earth.

John 3
He who comes from heaven is above all.

John 6
33 For the bread of God is that which comes down out of heaven, and gives life to the world.

John 6
38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.

John 6
58 This is the bread which came down out of heaven; not as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live forever.

John 6
62 What then if you see the Son of Man ascending to where He was before?

John 7
29 I know Him, because I am from Him, and He sent Me.

John 8
14 Jesus answered and said to them, “Even if I testify about Myself, My testimony is true, for I know where I came from and where I am going.

John 8
23 And He was saying to them, “You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world."

John 8
42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God.

John 8
58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.”

John 13
3 Jesus, knowing that the Father had given all things into His hands, and that He had come forth from God and was going back to God.

John 16
28 I came forth from the Father and have come into the world; I am leaving the world again and going to the Father.

John 16
30 Now we know that You know all things, and have no need for anyone to question You; by this we believe that You came from God.

John 17
8 for the words which You gave Me I have given to them; and they received them and truly understood that I came forth from You, and they believed that You sent Me.

Yes, I believe Jesus is 100% God. I believe Jesus is the second person of the Trinity or the Godhead. Jesus took on the flesh and blood that came from Mary's genetics and He was conceived by the Holy Ghost.
 
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klutedavid

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I see the Hypostatic Union or that Jesus had a human soul / human mind as one possibility that can be true (based on Colossians 1:19, and Colossians 2:9); While I accept it as a true possibility, it is not as clearly spelled out thing within Scripture. I believe there is another possibility to explain His divine behavior and His human behavior but I am forbidden to explain that here in this section of the forums.
I disagree, Jesus was always God in human form. Jesus humbled Himself and took on human form (Philippians 2); the Alpha and the Omega took on human form.
 
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No , What I mean is Jesus has perfect complete DNA created by Holy Spirit not from any sinners (including Mary )

Do you want to know how Jesus's body was created? I'll give you a little biology lesson; mixed with a little Scripture lesson.

An egg has the full 46 chromosomes until it is fertilized. It also has all the cell organelles to support cellular generation. All the origin of your cellular structure comes from your mother. The only thing sperm contribute is enzymes and 23 chromosomes of DNA. Sperm aren't very complicated. They consist of DNA, a cell membrane, a protein head that contains enzymes, a flagellum and mitochondria to propel the flagellum. There's not a lot to a sperm cell.

Once the egg is fertilized, all the DNA lines up and what is not used is discarded as a "polar body". So theoretically speaking (at least as far as genetics go); you can "create" a child without a father. Now it's actually the enzymes in the sperm that trigger a chemical reaction to tell the woman's body she's pregnant. There are also hormones that come from the prostate and the secretion glands in the vagina that trigger a chemical reaction that tells the brain "This person is my spouse". Multiple sex partners wreak havoc on this system; but that's a subject beyond this topic. I think it takes about 3 days for the egg to implant itself. So that is conception as it normally happens.

Genesis 3:15 says "I will put enmity between her seed and your seed." God is talking to Satan about Eve. Note God says "her seed"; not Adam's seed. Because of the fall, sin nature is passed from father to child, not mother to child. Note Adam and Eve were not expelled from the garden until Adam ate the fruit. And so this is how Jesus could be conceived using Mary's DNA and not inherit a sin nature because He didn't have a human father; even though Mary was a sinner.

Luke 1:35 - though it's not seen in the English; the angel explained to Mary how she will bear this child. One of the elements in this verse is the angel actually asks her permission before this happens. This is why she says "...be it unto me according to your word..." (vs 38).

Now the language "... Holy thing which shall be born of you..." is actually part of the explanation of how this will happen. "be born" or "be of the stock of you". The word "born" usually is a reference to "family paternity" in that it's the "delivered progeny" (or "stock") unto the conception process from the father. But the angel specifically tells her the "stock" is "of you".

Now obviously back in the 1st century, they did not know the nuts and bolts of the biology of conception. We understand DNA is what drives the system and tells it what proteins to put together to make what ever is being constructed. DNA is the "blueprint". Without it, there's no instructions on how to make a life form.

So consequently, between Genesis and this verse here; that the DNA blueprint to make Jesus's body did literally come from Mary. This is how Jesus is "fully human" and "The last Adam". This is very important because Adam was created in the image of God (Christ) and Jesus is incarnated in the likeness of Adam. That is absolutely essential for Him to be an appropriate sacrifice.

So basically what the Holy Spirit did with Mary's DNA was to make a male clone of her. Now if you know anything about genetics. Women only produce X chromosomes. Female = XX; Male = XY. So by act of creation by God, Jesus got a Y. This too was essential because He had to be a reproductively viable male to be an appropriate sacrifice. So thus out of Mary's XX genome; the Holy Ghost created an XY.

So yeah, Jesus looked a lot like His mom.

Now we have a soul, spirit and body that we inherit from our parents. The only thing we get from God is "the breath of life" which makes us "living souls". The "breath of life" resides in all carbon based life.

The "soul" and "spirit" of the individual are part of the natural conception process.

Our "spirit" is not the same as the "Holy Spirit". They are of similar "structure" and our "spirit" is by with the vehicle the Holy Spirit communicates to us through. Our spirits give us conscious awareness of God (as well as accountability for humans; of which I believe conscience and moral accountability is communicated). Now I believe that in all life, each organism has their own "spirit" and again, this is whereby God communicates to His creation.

Our "souls" are comprised primarily of our emotions. Emotions though are also connected to "spiritual awareness" for as when we transgress moral or ethical standards we "feel" guilt. So these systems are connected, but they are not one in the same. We can deduce this from the atonement; but that's another subject.

So Jesus of His humanity would have gotten His soul and spirit from Mary.

Now Jesus also had a Divine nature that was inseparably joined to the human nature. That Divine nature is fully God in its essence. (immortal, eternal, omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent) Although "veiled in flesh" in which the limitations of Jesus's physical body; actually concealed a certain amount of His awareness of that Divine nature from His own consciousness.

Jesus was not omniscient, omnipresent, or omnipotent in the flesh. And neither in that certain sense was He immortal or eternal. His humanity made Him "killable" on some level. He had access to those Divine attributes of His personhood; but in agreeing to be the last Adam to "take on sin"; he could not have any advantage over the first Adam; so He agreed to have to be dependent upon and obtain information in the same way as the 1st Adam did. This is why Jesus prayed and also why He "asked permission" of the Father to "access" His Divine nature.

So there is my "best crack" at explaining Jesus the God/man.
 
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I disagree, Jesus was always God in human form. Jesus humbled Himself and took on human form (Philippians 2); the Alpha and the Omega took on human form.

So Jesus did not have any divine powers as God during His earthly ministry?

Well...

Here is a list showing that Jesus had power as GOD:

#1. Jesus said He has power to raise the dead to life just as the Father had power to raise the dead (John 5:21).
#2. Hebrews 1:3 talks about how Christ held all things together by the word of His power when He purged us of our sins.
#3. Jesus said, He would raise up this Temple (His body) three days later (John 2:19).
#4. Jesus had the power to forgive sins and give eternal life (Mark 2:7) (Luke 7:44-50) (John 14:6).
#5 Jesus had power to take away the sins of the entire world (John 1:29).
#6. Jesus Christ said wherever two or three are gathered in my name, there I am among them (Matthew 18:20). This was said to the people he was around and not to just us today.
#7. Jesus knew men's thoughts (Matthew 9:4) (Matthew 12:25) (Mark 2:8) (Luke 5:22) (Luke 6:8) (Luke 9:47) (Luke 24:38).
#8. Jesus knew about the lives of others (John 2:24) (John 4:17-18) (John 4:29) (John 6:64).
 
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klutedavid

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So Jesus did not have any divine powers as God during His earthly ministry?

Here is a list showing that Jesus had power as GOD:

#1. Jesus said He has power to raise the dead to life just as the Father had power to raise the dead (John 5:21).
#2. Hebrews 1:3 talks about how Christ held all things together by the word of His power when He purged us of our sins.
#3. Jesus said, He would raise up this Temple (His body) three days later (John 2:19).
#4. Jesus had the power to forgive sins and give eternal life (Mark 2:7) (Luke 7:44-50) (John 14:6).
#5 Jesus had power to take away the sins of the entire world (John 1:29).
#6. Jesus Christ said wherever two or three are gathered in my name, there I am among them (Matthew 18:20). This was said to the people he was around and not to just us today.
#7. Jesus knew men's thoughts (Matthew 9:4) (Matthew 12:25) (Mark 2:8) (Luke 5:22) (Luke 6:8) (Luke 9:47) (Luke 24:38).
#8. Jesus knew about the lives of others (John 2:24) (John 4:17-18) (John 4:29) (John 6:64).
I never said that Jesus was not God.

I said that Jesus was from heaven, sent by the Father and born into the house of David.

The alpha and the omega was the creator and the alpha and the omega was Jesus.

Jesus humbled Himself when He came down from above, but He failed to adequately hide His identity. I'm not sure that His intention was to conceal His true identity entirely.
 
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It's the furthest thing from heresy. You only call it a heresy because you don't understand the teaching. Mary was conceived in the same state that the Old Eve was- sinless. The only difference between the two is that, like Jesus (the New Adam), Mary (the New Eve) never disobeyed God. The two of them never ate the fruit from the tree that God told them to avoid. In no way does God choosing to exercise His saving power in a unique way for the mother of Christ eliminate the fact that she needed a savior.
Thanks sister.

Jesus was the new Adam.
His mother was the new Eve. :scratch:

Jesus never sinned.
His mother never sinned.

Jesus didn't need a savior.
His mother did need a savior.

Next you'll be telling us that ordained Roman Catholic priests have the power to say the secret words and change bread and wine into flesh and blood and carry them to and fro to dispense or withhold salvation to the masses.

Silly extra Biblical Catholic hocus-pocus - better saved for another thread.
 
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I never said that Jesus was not God.

I said that Jesus was from heaven, sent by the Father and born into the house of David.

The alpha and the omega was the creator and the alpha and the omega was Jesus.

Jesus humbled Himself when He came down from above, but He failed to adequately hide His identity. I'm not sure that His intention was to conceal His true identity entirely.

I am not implying that you said Jesus is not God. I got the impression that you are saying that Jesus is God in name only and that He no longer has His divine attributes as the Eternal Logos anymore because He was God turned into only being a man (during His earthly ministry).

In other words, some believe in a version of the Kenosis that says that Jesus completely emptied Himself of His divine attributes or privileges in Philippians 2:6-9. I don't believe that to be the case because there are other verses that suggest that Jesus did have power of His own as the Eternal Logos.
 
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klutedavid

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Do you want to know how Jesus's body was created? I'll give you a little biology lesson; mixed with a little Scripture lesson.

An egg has the full 46 chromosomes until it is fertilized. It also has all the cell organelles to support cellular generation. All the origin of your cellular structure comes from your mother. The only thing sperm contribute is enzymes and 23 chromosomes of DNA. Sperm aren't very complicated. They consist of DNA, a cell membrane, a protein head that contains enzymes, a flagellum and mitochondria to propel the flagellum. There's not a lot to a sperm cell.

Once the egg is fertilized, all the DNA lines up and what is not used is discarded as a "polar body". So theoretically speaking (at least as far as genetics go); you can "create" a child without a father. Now it's actually the enzymes in the sperm that trigger a chemical reaction to tell the woman's body she's pregnant. There are also hormones that come from the prostate and the secretion glands in the vagina that trigger a chemical reaction that tells the brain "This person is my spouse". Multiple sex partners wreak havoc on this system; but that's a subject beyond this topic. I think it takes about 3 days for the egg to implant itself. So that is conception as it normally happens.

Genesis 3:15 says "I will put enmity between her seed and your seed." God is talking to Satan about Eve. Note God says "her seed"; not Adam's seed. Because of the fall, sin nature is passed from father to child, not mother to child. Note Adam and Eve were not expelled from the garden until Adam ate the fruit. And so this is how Jesus could be conceived using Mary's DNA and not inherit a sin nature because He didn't have a human father; even though Mary was a sinner.

Luke 1:35 - though it's not seen in the English; the angel explained to Mary how she will bear this child. One of the elements in this verse is the angel actually asks her permission before this happens. This is why she says "...be it unto me according to your word..." (vs 38).

Now the language "... Holy thing which shall be born of you..." is actually part of the explanation of how this will happen. "be born" or "be of the stock of you". The word "born" usually is a reference to "family paternity" in that it's the "delivered progeny" (or "stock") unto the conception process from the father. But the angel specifically tells her the "stock" is "of you".

Now obviously back in the 1st century, they did not know the nuts and bolts of the biology of conception. We understand DNA is what drives the system and tells it what proteins to put together to make what ever is being constructed. DNA is the "blueprint". Without it, there's no instructions on how to make a life form.

So consequently, between Genesis and this verse here; that the DNA blueprint to make Jesus's body did literally come from Mary. This is how Jesus is "fully human" and "The last Adam". This is very important because Adam was created in the image of God (Christ) and Jesus is incarnated in the likeness of Adam. That is absolutely essential for Him to be an appropriate sacrifice.

So basically what the Holy Spirit did with Mary's DNA was to make a male clone of her. Now if you know anything about genetics. Women only produce X chromosomes. Female = XX; Male = XY. So by act of creation by God, Jesus got a Y. This too was essential because He had to be a reproductively viable male to be an appropriate sacrifice. So thus out of Mary's XX genome; the Holy Ghost created an XY.

So yeah, Jesus looked a lot like His mom.

Now we have a soul, spirit and body that we inherit from our parents. The only thing we get from God is "the breath of life" which makes us "living souls". The "breath of life" resides in all carbon based life.

The "soul" and "spirit" of the individual are part of the natural conception process.

Our "spirit" is not the same as the "Holy Spirit". They are of similar "structure" and our "spirit" is by with the vehicle the Holy Spirit communicates to us through. Our spirits give us conscious awareness of God (as well as accountability for humans; of which I believe conscience and moral accountability is communicated). Now I believe that in all life, each organism has their own "spirit" and again, this is whereby God communicates to His creation.

Our "souls" are comprised primarily of our emotions. Emotions though are also connected to "spiritual awareness" for as when we transgress moral or ethical standards we "feel" guilt. So these systems are connected, but they are not one in the same. We can deduce this from the atonement; but that's another subject.

So Jesus of His humanity would have gotten His soul and spirit from Mary.

Now Jesus also had a Divine nature that was inseparably joined to the human nature. That Divine nature is fully God in its essence. (immortal, eternal, omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent) Although "veiled in flesh" in which the limitations of Jesus's physical body; actually concealed a certain amount of His awareness of that Divine nature from His own consciousness.

Jesus was not omniscient, omnipresent, or omnipotent in the flesh. And neither in that certain sense was He immortal or eternal. His humanity made Him "killable" on some level. He had access to those Divine attributes of His personhood; but in agreeing to be the last Adam to "take on sin"; he could not have any advantage over the first Adam; so He agreed to have to be dependent upon and obtain information in the same way as the 1st Adam did. This is why Jesus prayed and also why He "asked permission" of the Father to "access" His Divine nature.

So there is my "best crack" at explaining Jesus the God/man.
The only problem you have with your explanation is that Jesus was born a King.

Jesus was worshiped at birth.

Jesus never claimed to be the offspring of Adam, Jesus always said that He came from above. Jesus assumed our human form, Jesus was never a created entity like us.

Jesus always knew exactly who He was and was the Word in human form.

Whether Jesus looked like His mum is irrelevant.

A humble God in human form.
 
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