Did Jesus really say do not preach to the gentiles?

Uber Genius

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"My ears had heard of you
but now my eyes have seen you." Job 42:5

The horror of Job's experiences of massive suffering pale in comparison to standing in God's presence.

Your inference that Job knows God through some ancient knowledge of nature or perhaps stories from ancient history of God's acts both seem reasonable. The fact that he mentions hearing suggest that his culture talked about the God of the Bible rather than some pagan conception.
 
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RDKirk

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"My ears had heard of you
but now my eyes have seen you." Job 42:5

The horror of Job's experiences of massive suffering pale in comparison to standing in God's presence.

Your inference that Job knows God through some ancient knowledge of nature or perhaps stories from ancient history of God's acts both seem reasonable. The fact that he mentions hearing suggest that his culture talked about the God of the Bible rather than some pagan conception.

God does not refer Job to "stories from ancient history of God's acts." God refers to wonders of nature that Job could directly experience.
 
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Zetetica

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In Matthew 10:5 Jesus tells the 12 "Do not go among the Gentiles but to the lost sheep of Israel" this also is later confirmed in the book of Acts when the 12 mostly visited and preached the Gospel to the Jews. It wasn't until Paul came into the picture that salvation was offered to the Gentiles. So was salvation meant for the Gentiles? Or for Jews only?
I'm quickly reminded of the parable of the wedding. Are you familiar? Essentially, none of the invited guests would come to the king's wedding, so he had anyone who would come, invited instead, providing they would wear the proper robes and observe respectful conduct.
 
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Neostarwcc

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Thanks for the responses guys. I figured that Jesus did not mean that salvation was unavailable to the gentiles. Especially when it is mostly gentiles that believe in him and rely on him for salvation.

Also notice later on in Matthew after his resurrection Jesus says to the 12 go to ALL nations and preach the gospel. So salvation is available to all.
 
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Uber Genius

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God does not refer Job to "stories from ancient history of God's acts." God refers to wonders of nature that Job could directly experience.
whoops.
Read the passage again, and

Tell us how "My ears had heard of you."

Is in any way synonymous with "God does not refer Job to "stories from ancient history of God's acts."

What was Job hearing when he is giving a historical perspective about his knowledge of God?

He contrasts seeing with "hearing of you."

We must be talking about two different things as I can make no sense of your denial above.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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In Matthew 10:5 Jesus tells the 12 "Do not go among the Gentiles but to the lost sheep of Israel" this also is later confirmed in the book of Acts when the 12 mostly visited and preached the Gospel to the Jews. It wasn't until Paul came into the picture that salvation was offered to the Gentiles. So was salvation meant for the Gentiles? Or for Jews only?
To the Jew first and then to the Gentile. It has always been for both however, the prophecies are fulfilled through the Torah,Neviʾim and Ketuvim which was only given to the Jews and where the lineage of the Messiah is prophesied.
 
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mindlight

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In Matthew 10:5 Jesus tells the 12 "Do not go among the Gentiles but to the lost sheep of Israel" this also is later confirmed in the book of Acts when the 12 mostly visited and preached the Gospel to the Jews. It wasn't until Paul came into the picture that salvation was offered to the Gentiles. So was salvation meant for the Gentiles? Or for Jews only?

People forget that the Hebrew OT itself shows that God was interested in the whole world and always intended Israel to be a "Light to the Gentiles". There is the story of Jonah for instance who was a bit of a Jewish nationalist and fine with prophesying doom and gloom on Israel's enemies but terrified that they might repent and enjoy Gods favour. Yet that is exactly what God did when the city of Nineveh repented. He had mercy on them. Also the story of the Hebrews is not the first one in the bible. We had the covenant with Adam and with Noah before the Hebrews were a twinkle in Abrahams eye and a blush on Sarahs cheek. Jethro the Midianite helped out Moses who had married his daughter. Melchizedek received the tithes of Abraham.

2 weeks ago while preaching on the sermon on the plain from Luke I was also struck at how Jesus's audience came also from the cities of Tyre and Sidon. These were gentile cities yet here is Jesus sharing his best preaching with them and also healing their sick. He healed the Centurions servant and numerous other Gentiles also.

People seem anxious to separate the message of Paul and Jesus too much in my view. Paul was called as an apostle to the gentiles but so also was Thomas who started the church in India, Phillip who started it in Ethiopia, John who spent most of his life in Greece, Peter who died in Rome!!!!!
 
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notreligus

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To the Jew first and then to the Nations. The New Covenant was for Israel...read Jeremiah.
This is error which you have claimed. Christ is the offspring of Abraham and He has fufilled the majority of prophecy which is still claimed to be about a nation called Israel. Salvation has come through a Person, Jesus Christ, and it is not going to come through a nation. The New Covenant is now. Before the foundation of the world God envisioned the Church, the Body of Christ. Paul said that one new man was created in Christ. The Old Covenant is obsolete and no longer applicable. The New Covenant is a Blood Covenant.

Look for the Scriptures that support what I've said above. They exist and you should read them.

Rom 11:5 So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace.

A remnant of Jews believed. God has not cast away the Jews. They must come under the authority of Christ like everyone has to do and they will be saved when they put their faith in His finished work on the cross. His blood was presented in the heavenly Holy of Holies. Christ is now the Great High Priest, Mediator and Intecessor. Without His intercession and the imputation of righteous to the believer no one could be saved.

Matt 26:26 Now as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and after blessing it broke it and gave it to the disciples, and said, "Take, eat; this is my body."
Matt 26:27 And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, saying, "Drink of it, all of you,
Matt 26:28 for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

Heb 8:1 Now the point in what we are saying is this: we have such a high priest, one who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven,
Heb 8:2 a minister in the holy places, in the true tent that the Lord set up, not man.
Heb 8:3 For every high priest is appointed to offer gifts and sacrifices; thus it is necessary for this priest also to have something to offer.
Heb 8:4 Now if he were on earth, he would not be a priest at all, since there are priests who offer gifts according to the law.
Heb 8:5 They serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly things. For when Moses was about to erect the tent, he was instructed by God, saying, "See that you make everything according to the pattern that was shown you on the mountain."
Heb 8:6 But as it is, Christ has obtained a ministry that is as much more excellent than the old as the covenant he mediates is better, since it is enacted on better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion to look for a second.
Heb 8:8 For he finds fault with them when he says: "Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah,
Heb 8:9 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt. For they did not continue in my covenant, and so I showed no concern for them, declares the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach, each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest.
Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful toward their iniquities, and I will remember their sins no more."
Heb 8:13 In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,
Eph 1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love
Eph 1:5 he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,
Eph 1:6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.
Eph 1:7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace,
Eph 1:8 which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight
Eph 1:9 making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ
Eph 1:10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.
Eph 1:11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,
Eph 1:12 so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory.
Eph 1:13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
Eph 1:14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.
Thanksgiving and Prayer
Eph 1:15 For this reason, because I have heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love toward all the saints,
Eph 1:16 I do not cease to give thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers,
Eph 1:17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of him,
Eph 1:18 having the eyes of your hearts enlightened, that you may know what is the hope to which he has called you, what are the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints,
Eph 1:19 and what is the immeasurable greatness of his power toward us who believe, according to the working of his great might
Eph 1:20 that he worked in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places,
Eph 1:21 far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come.
Eph 1:22 And he put all things under his feet and gave him as head over all things to the church,
Eph 1:23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills all in all.

Rom 5:1 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Rom 5:2 Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Rom 5:3 Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance,
Rom 5:4 and endurance produces character, and character produces hope,
Rom 5:5 and hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.
Rom 5:6 For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.
Rom 5:7 For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die—
Rom 5:8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Rom 5:9 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.
Rom 5:10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.
Rom 5:11 More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.
Death in Adam, Life in Christ
Rom 5:12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned—
Rom 5:13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.
Rom 5:14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.
Rom 5:15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.
Rom 5:16 And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification.
Rom 5:17 For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.
Rom 5:18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.
Rom 5:19 For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.
Rom 5:20 Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,
Rom 5:21 so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Eph 2:11 Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called "the uncircumcision" by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands—
Eph 2:12 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility
Eph 2:15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace,
Eph 2:16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility.
Eph 2:17 And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near.
Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father.
Eph 2:19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,
Eph 2:20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone,
Eph 2:21 in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord.
Eph 2:22 In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit.
 
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devin553344

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In Matthew 10:5 Jesus tells the 12 "Do not go among the Gentiles but to the lost sheep of Israel" this also is later confirmed in the book of Acts when the 12 mostly visited and preached the Gospel to the Jews. It wasn't until Paul came into the picture that salvation was offered to the Gentiles. So was salvation meant for the Gentiles? Or for Jews only?

There are people that I won't preach to. Only if they are willing to hear about God and open to Him.
 
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zoidar

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That's true. So maybe the gentiles at the time couldn't be saved? Because otherwise why would Jesus say "Don't go to the Gentiles but the Jews?"

Through out the Bible non-Jews and Gentiles are saved. Jesus came for his people first, of course he himself being a Jew. From the Jews came salvation to the Gentiles, the whole world. This is how God planned salvation. But Jesus also helped a Canaanite woman, even he was sent to the Jews. It has always been God's character to help anyone who seeks His help.
 
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notreligus

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Do you have trouble reading? Jeremiah 31 and Romans 11
No. The Book of Romans is an admonishment to BOTH Jews and Gentiles that NEITHER has an advantage over the other when it comes to reconciliation. You have ignored all of the Scripture I posted. The Bible is not to be read like it's a smorgasbord.

God chose how we would be saved. Judaism does not determine that. Judaism is mostly based on the Talmud, or the oral rabbinic teachings put into writing.

I have to say that this dual covenant, dual salvation teaching really bothers me because it is just not Scriptural. God created one people; they sinned and brought a curse upon all of mankind; but, because of what God did through His son, Jesus Christ, the one true Messiah, all of mankind who put their faith in what He has done, can be reconciled back to the Father. The Blood is both the payment demanded and the proof that Christ was victorious.
 
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notreligus

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Through out the Bible non-Jews and Gentiles are saved. Jesus came for his people first, of course he himself being a Jew. From the Jews came salvation to the Gentiles, the whole world. This is how God planned salvation. But Jesus also helped a Canaanite woman, even he was sent to the Jews. It has always been God's character to help anyone who seeks His help.
I believe that He came as a Jew to fulfill the Law.
 
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RDKirk

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Through out the Bible non-Jews and Gentiles are saved. Jesus came for his people first, of course he himself being a Jew. From the Jews came salvation to the Gentiles, the whole world. This is how God planned salvation. But Jesus also helped a Canaanite woman, even he was sent to the Jews. It has always been God's character to help anyone who seeks His help.

Jesus proclaiming to the gentile woman "Your faith has saved you" is, I believe, the seminal incident (although there were others, and maybe some Paul was told that aren't even in scripture) that Paul had to reconcile through the OT to conclude that it was always faith all along that linked people into the promise given to Abraham.
 
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RDKirk

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No. The Book of Romans is an admonishment to BOTH Jews and Gentiles that NEITHER has an advantage over the other when it comes to reconciliation.

I think the setting of Paul's Roman audience was a congregation of mixed Judaic and gentile Christians. Back around 49 AD, the Emperor Claudius had expelled Jews (including Jewish Christians) from Rome.* We see in Acts that Aquilla and Priscilla were among those expelled.

We also know from Acts that Aquilla and Priscilla had already been fully versed in the gospel, thoroughly enough for them to be teachers to the evangelist Apollos. So I believe they had been hosting a congregation in Rome before the expulsion edict.

When Caligula became emperor, he permitted the Jews back into Rome. We see from the letter to the Romans that Aquilla and Priscilla are again hosting a congregation there.

That means for several years the Roman congregation had been led by gentile Christians alone. Then the Jews return--likely asserting a "we started this" expression of superiority. Maybe the gentiles acceded to that before, but not so willingly after they had continued the congregation on their own for a few years.

But clearly, Paul's letter to them has distinct portions directed to the Jewish Christians and then to the gentile Christians, and both are admonished.

*The expulsion of Jews from Rome was also effective upon all Roman coloniae cities, which included Philippi. Unlike most of the cities of Asia minor, Philippi was not occupied by Greeks, but by Romans. This was an effect of the failed rebellion of Mark Anthony against Octavius. Mark Anthony's legions were not slaughtered, but were allowed to remain outside Italy in the abandoned Greek city of Phlippi. But they were considered directly under the rule of Caesar, like Rome, and edicts affecting Rome also affected them.

That's why there was no Jewish synagog in Philippi when Paul visited. Also, notice that when Paul was arrested, Luke writes it was because he was allegedly breaking Roman law, not because he'd aroused the local Jews (there weren't any local Jews). And that's also why the officials were so quick to release him when they discovered he was a Roman citizen.
 
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Residential Bob

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To the Jew first and then to the Nations. The New Covenant was for Israel...read Jeremiah.
If the new covenant was for Israel, then was it for the nations?

Unless the nations were the tribes, which in the big picture, seems to be largely the case. And the Gentiles, arguably, are the diaspora.
 
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RDKirk

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If the new covenant was for Israel, then was it for the nations?

Unless the nations were the tribes, which in the big picture, seems to be largely the case. And the Gentiles, arguably, are the diaspora.

Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham’s offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who have the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all. As it is written: “I have made you a father of many nations.”

The concept of "children of Abraham" is expanded to mean all people of faith--which Paul takes pain to make explicit--then there is no continued concept of "tribes" in the New Covenant because Abraham predates the tribes of Israel.
 
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Residential Bob

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Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham’s offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who have the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all. As it is written: “I have made you a father of many nations.”

The concept of "children of Abraham" is expanded to mean all people of faith--which Paul takes pain to make explicit--then there is no continued concept of "tribes" in the New Covenant because Abraham predates the tribes of Israel.
The concept of the tribes continues at least through 70 AD; John the Revelator lists 12 of them.

Abraham is the father of us all. Who is "all"? Paul is addressing his own people. He doesn't start addressing Gentiles until chapter 11 (11:13).

Just throwing that out there. After all, Jesus came only for the lost sheep of the house of Israel, not for the dogs like the Syrophoenecian woman of Matthew 15.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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No. The Book of Romans is an admonishment to BOTH Jews and Gentiles that NEITHER has an advantage over the other when it comes to reconciliation. You have ignored all of the Scripture I posted. The Bible is not to be read like it's a smorgasbord.

God chose how we would be saved. Judaism does not determine that. Judaism is mostly based on the Talmud, or the oral rabbinic teachings put into writing.

I have to say that this dual covenant, dual salvation teaching really bothers me because it is just not Scriptural. God created one people; they sinned and brought a curse upon all of mankind; but, because of what God did through His son, Jesus Christ, the one true Messiah, all of mankind who put their faith in what He has done, can be reconciled back to the Father. The Blood is both the payment demanded and the proof that Christ was victorious.

I never said one has an "advantage". Nothing you wrote has anything to do with what I wrote...
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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If the new covenant was for Israel, then was it for the nations?

Unless the nations were the tribes, which in the big picture, seems to be largely the case. And the Gentiles, arguably, are the diaspora.

LOL, where do you get that from?!?!?! Why can't you just read and understand what is written?
 
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RDKirk

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The concept of the tribes continues at least through 70 AD; John the Revelator lists 12 of them.

Abraham is the father of us all. Who is "all"? Paul is addressing his own people. He doesn't start addressing Gentiles until chapter 11 (11:13).

Just throwing that out there. After all, Jesus came only for the lost sheep of the house of Israel, not for the dogs like the Syrophoenecian woman of Matthew 15.

It appears that you don't understand the argument Paul was making at all.
 
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