The Mark of the Beast

helmut said:

I can't see this in Rev 6:5-6. These verses predict high prices for goods, especially for the goods everybody needs (bread etc.). There is no indication whatever of any affection to "electronic grid system", or even infrastructure in general.

Moreover, how the time of the 3rd seal relates to the time of the beast, is by no means clear.

It seems that you postulate things that have no Scriptural basis known to me.

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Go to You Tube and look up Zimbabwe wrecked economy. They are an example of hyperinflation, and devaluation of the currency. I am sure you have heard about Germany prior to Hitler coming to power, and it taking a wheelbarrow of cash to buy something.

The rider on the black horse indicates goods will be sparse and even then they will be hyper inflated in price. Venezuela is another example.

The great tribulation is called the great tribulation for a reason.

In any war type environment, infrastructure like power, electonic grids for communications are affected.

Prior to the black horse, the rider on the red horse brings war breaking out everywhere.

4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

The path of Adolph Hitler mimics the path of the riders in Revelation 6.

A charismatic leader comes to power.
Then war breaks out
Then war results in the damaged countries incapacitates infrastructure, and economies are damaged.
Then famine takes place, as food chains are disrupted.
The masses dying because of lack of diseases, starvation, and killings.

shilohsfoal said:

If cash is used you dont need to go to a store to use it.I could bye wiskey at the age of 14 when i was young because i knew who tobye it from.If cash is used i can bye almost anything you can without evet setting foot in a store.
You shouldread the article israrls cashlrss society to understamd why they wil have no cash

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Some of those types of cash exchanges without the mark will take place - but there will likely be a law of imprisonment or death penalty to do so.

Even today, in concept, if such a person were in charge of the world like the beast, a law could be implemented saying that the mark is necessary for buying and selling, and to violate that law would be imprisonment or death penalty.

Not a single other thing has to change regarding currency for it to be put into effect.

Some recommend things to trade during the Tribulation... Gold, silver, and such.

Sell it for a little less than they can buy it for, and greed will take over from there, so we may be able to at least get some, maybe even enough, essentials.

And there is so much more we can do with the warning God has give us.

shilohsfoal said:

I learned Israelis recieve the mark of the beast long before i ever read of Israels cashless society

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I pointed to Bible passages that seem to indicate the contrary. Where is the biblical basis for your claim?

shilohsfoal said:

by learning who the "great city of Babylon"is.
Have you learned who Babylon the prostitute is yet?

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Well, I know what the Great Babylon will be:

1. A town built on seven hills
2. A center of world trade ...
3. ... dominated by the economical power ("mighty merchants") that rule the world ...
   
4. ... that will be destroyed within one hour
5. Babylon is paired with the virgin Jerusalem in Rev 12 (both are symbolized by women), and the heavenly Jerusalem (which is introduced with almost the same words as Babylon). These are pairs of opposites, of course, but opposites that share some similarities, so it is an easy guess that Babylon will be a "sort of" church.

Numbers 2 to 4 fit to the center of world trade that was destroyed in 2001, I think this is a hint (or "foreshadowing") what the ultimate, "proper" Babylon will be.

But I see nothing that fits all points mentioned. I believe it will emerge in the future, and I don't want to speculate too much how this could be.

Douggg said:

Go to You Tube and look up Zimbabwe wrecked economy. They are an example of hyperinflation, and devaluation of the currency. I am sure you have heard about Germany prior to Hitler coming to power, and it taking a wheelbarrow of cash to buy something.

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I know that there was hyperinflation in 1923 and the contrary, deflation and depression, in 1933 (as part of the world economic crisis that started with black Friday in 1929), and it was 1933 when Hitler came to power. I don't understand how this loose allusion relates to what you want to teach me.

Douggg said:

The rider on the black horse indicates goods will be sparse and even then they will be hyper inflated in price.

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In a time when money was made of gold and silver, such inflation meant shortage of food, by bad weather, war or other reasons. Hyperinflation of the kind you think about were unimaginable for John, so it is an open question whether the vision aims on such or whether it describes the consequences of, say, climatic change.

Douggg said:

The great tribulation is called the great tribulation for a reason.

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Because the believers are persecuted in that time.

Douggg said:

In any war type environment, infrastructure like power, electonic grids for communications are affected.

Prior to the black horse, the rider on the red horse brings war breaking out everywhere.

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Yes, first a victory of the white, then no piece by the red, then hunger of the black - looks almost as a description of much of 20th century history ...

Douggg said:

The path of Adolph Hitler mimics the path of the riders in Revelation 6.

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It even more closely mimics the path of a Roman general in John's times. The question is: how should we translate it into our time?

And the crucial question: at what point in this scenario comes the mark of the beast? is not addressed by you. It may be the time of the white rider, when infrastructure is quite ok.

The German soldiers were sworn into allegiance to the Führer not in WW2, but much earlier (1934). Got what I mean?

shilohsfoal said:

There are more than 144,000 people in Israel.

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Right, but Rev 7 speaks of 144,000. This is probably a symbolic figure, but we have no other figure in Scripture for that.

See also next posting ...

shilohsfoal said:

Also according to scripture,that cup full of the wrath of God is given to one place and one place only.Babylon.

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This does not anwer the question which city.

shilohsfoal said:

Revelation 16:19 The great city was split into three parts, and the cities of the nations collapsed. And God remembered Babylon the great and gave her the cup of the wine of the fury of His wrath.

Also according to scripture,guess what city Christ and the holy angels are said to come to at that time.The name of the city is Jerusalem

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Non sequitur. God will punish this city, it is not said that he comes there.

In Rev 12 there is a woman, as a symbol for Jerusalem, which stands for the people that brought forth the Messiah. I see no reason why the harlot should be considered the same as the virgin.

shilohsfoal said:

Zechariah 14:4 On that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half the mountain moving to the north and half to the south.
Zechariah 14:5 You will flee by My mountain valley, for it will extend to Azal. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come, and all the holy ones with Him.

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Babylon will be split into three parts, as (part of) judgement upon that city. The Mount of Olives will be split into two parts, as a means to rescue Jerusalem, a new valley to flee into. To say this is the same is speculation at best.

shilohsfoal said:

According tto scripture,Anyome who worships the beast or the image of the beast or takes the mark,of the beast,he shall,drink of the cup of the wrath of God in the presence of Christ and the angels.

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The description that follows points rather to the sea of fire, not the place of Babylon.

Artra said:

I believe the Mark of the Beast closely correlates to 1 Timothy 6:10 and Mark 3:28-30..

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It may be otherwise, the mark belonging to a counter-reaction to what you pointed to. We don't know ...

But it is clear that those people you have in mind commit the sin of Sodom:

Ez 16:49 Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.

There are hints that this may relate to the ideology of the Beast, but I don't dare to say I'm sure about that.

parousia70 said:

Had to have been fulfilled before the Disciples (who are unquestionably the "YOU" in the passage Jesus was Directly addressing) had themselves finished going through Israel's Cities, otherwise, It is a false prophesy and Jesus is a false prophet.

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You had better be mindful of the words you utter.

shilohsfoal said:

There are far more people in Israrl than 144,000.

The 144,000 are marked by Christ ,thier king.
The others recieve the mark of the beast.Thier king.

Its as if your trying not to understand why Jerusalem is considered a harlot.She was once faithful but she has chosen another.

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So you don't believe what Paul say in Rom 11:25, that all Israel will be saved?

The harlot Isaiah condemned has been punished long ago by the Babylonians.

shilohsfoal said:

Every Israli marked by Christ will be saved.Not so for the rest.

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So you don't believe what Paul said? Read Romans 9-11 and you will see a different picture than yours, with a small minority of saved Jews.

shilohsfoal said:

Ezekiel 9:5 And as I listened, He said to the others, "Follow him through the city and start killing; do not show pity or spare anyone!
Ezekiel 9:6 Slaughter the old men, the young men and maidens, the women and children, but do not go near anyone who has the mark. Now begin at My sanctuary." So they began with the elders who were before the temple.

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The fulfillment of this prophecy can be read in the last chapters of 2.Kings, 2.Chronicles, Jeremiah, and in the book of Lamentations. I believe the word of God.

shilohsfoal said:

Or you just cant understand it?

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Maybe you don't understand?

shilohsfoal said:

So you believe someone othet than Christ saves by marking.

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This is not correct. What makes you think so?

shilohsfoal said:

Ps,2 percent of Israls population is christian.80 percent of thosr 2 percent are arab.But if your right and every israrli are saved without Christ

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I referred to what Paul says in Rom. 9-11, if you read this you will understand that it is not about being saved without Christ, but about Israel as a whole turning to Christ.

shilohsfoal said:

There are more antichrist in Israel today than there are christian.

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This will change, as foretold by Paul.

Please stop using your presupposition in reading into my words what I never said nor meant. If you see an inconsistency, ask, and I will explain it, or correct myself, depending on the biblical arguments you bring to me.