Bernie will be the next President of the USA

JacobKStarkey · Mar 5, 2019

There is no free market in the pharma, health, and medical industries.

Albion · Mar 5, 2019

mark46 said:
I suppose that Booker might have a chance. He has certainly opposed the progressives. He was also quick to reject the idea of Harris that Medicare for All means an end to private insurance. Booker considers private insurance a key part of the solution to the issue of access to affordable health care.

Part of Booker's appeal is his opposition to left wing of the party.

You know, I have read you saying that several times before and it leaves me wondering.

I wont dismiss it out of hand, and that is because you are knowledgeable about these things. But to me, Booker is not at all a dignified, thoughtful, presidential politician. He certainly does not stand out from the field. That display he put on during the Kavanaugh hearings was such amateurish playacting. Embarrassing. And that is how a lot of people see him, I think.

The point there is that it should be easy, during a nationwide campaign, to characterize him as extreme, out of control, not ready for prime time. He even has that AOC "look" when he gets wound up.

So thats the take from another vantage point. Maybe he looks entirely different when it comes to what goes on inside the Democratic Party, but if he is going to face the nation, he has a lot to repair IMO.

Silverback · Mar 5, 2019

bhsmte said:
Many countries with more government involvement in healthcare, have much lower cost of care than the US and better outcomes.

I have been in healthcare for over 20 years and it is capitalist driven and prices are not high because of the government.

I have been in healthcare for 32 years (+) I don't see our current system as exploitative. What will be exploitative is decreasing Physician salaries to levels that they retire, or, leave the country. And it's not just Dr's, it's everyone because they will tax the middle class to death. And everyone who can will leave. Then what's left? The unskilled poor, Old Age pensioners, drug addicts, and Prostitutes. What does that do to your tax base?

and it will all start with healthcare. Remember Obamacare? People have to workhard, sacrifice, practice self reliance, and make good choices. That's how a person becomes successful.

The Tax these people are talking about is pure, and simple theft. And, don't forget, only half the country pays any federal tax. Everyone working will see 50% tax rates. For what? Just to have the corrupt Government tell you what your going to do.

Albion · Mar 5, 2019

Silverback said:
That's not the point. The fact that at the current time healthcare is extremely expensive, if the Government gets out of the business of healthcare healthcare will be largely unaffordable for anyone not employed.

Is it inexpensive if each year, middle class Americans are paying 50% of their income to the government in order for it to be able to pay for that medical care? And that is to say nothing of the inflation that will follow the quadrupling of our national debt, which is another certainty if we go to Socialized Medicine.

Speedwell · Mar 5, 2019

Albion said:
Is it inexpensive if each year, middle class Americans are paying 50% of their income to the government in order for it to be able to pay for that medical care? And that is to say nothing of the inflation that will follow the quadrupling of our national debt, which is another certainty if we go to Socialized Medicine.

That seems a little over the top. Most of the estimates I have seen show a cost of about the same order of magnitude or less as we are paying now.

Albion · Mar 5, 2019

bhsmte said:
Many countries with more government involvement in healthcare, have much lower cost of care than the US and better outcomes.

Perhaps you should tell us which nations you have in mind. I remember Justin Beber griping because he had to pay $2000 (I think it was) for some medical attention when he injured himself in the USA, saying that it would have been free in Canada. But in Canada, people still go to other countries when they need serious care because they cannot schedule the operation in less than six months in Canada. That does not happen here. So it is not simply a question of comparing dollar amounts.

Silverback · Mar 5, 2019

Albion said:
Is it inexpensive if each year, middle class Americans are paying 50% of their income to the government in order for it to be able to pay for that medical care? And that is to say nothing of the inflation that will follow the quadrupling of our national debt, which is another certainty if we go to Socialized Medicine.

I have never paid anywhere near 50% for healthcare, certainly never to the Federal Government.

But you are correct about the national debt. We are bankrupt now, this will kill us.

RocksInMyHead · Mar 5, 2019

Albion said:
Perhaps you should tell us which nations you have in mind. I remember Justin Beber griping because he had to pay $2000 (I think it was) for some medical attention when he injured himself in the USA, saying that it would have been free in Canada. But in Canada, people still go to other countries when they need serious care because they cannot schedule the operation in less than six months in Canada. That does not happen here. So it is not simply a question of comparing dollar amounts.

And people in the US now still go to other countries in order to have operations done at a cost that they can afford - or forgo them entirely.

Albion · Mar 5, 2019

Silverback said:
I have never paid anywhere near 50% for healthcare, certainly never to the Federal Government.

Not yet.

My point was that Average Joes will be taxed at a level something like that IF we adopt Socialized Medicine in this country. But people never think of that in advance; for the present, they are thrilled to think of how great it will be to get everything for "free."

Albion · Mar 5, 2019

RocksInMyHead said:
And people in the US now still go to other countries in order to have operations done at a cost that they can afford - or forgo them entirely.

In order to have worse care, you forgot to add. So that's not much of an argument for changing our system.

Speedwell · Mar 5, 2019

Albion said:
In order to have worse care, you forgot to add. So that's not much of an argument for changing our system.

Why would it necessarily be worse?

Silverback · Mar 5, 2019

RocksInMyHead said:
And people in the US now still go to other countries in order to have operations done at a cost that they can afford - or forgo them entirely.

Most of the time it's for plastic surgery, or to bypass a donor list. but you are correct, Americans do travel for surgery.

Silverback · Mar 5, 2019

Albion said:
Not yet.

My point was that Average Joes will be taxed at a level something like that IF we adopt Socialized Medicine in this country. But people never think of that in advance; for the present, they are thrilled to think of how great it will be to get everything for "free."[/QUOTQUOTE

Agreed

Speedwell · Mar 5, 2019

Silverback said:
Most of the time it's for plastic surgery, or to bypass a donor list. but you are correct, Americans do travel for surgery.

Dentistry as well. Cross the line at any little border town in the South West and you find yourself in a street full of dentists' offices.

JacobKStarkey · Mar 5, 2019

RocksInMyHead said:
And people in the US now still go to other countries in order to have operations done at a cost that they can afford - or forgo them entirely.

Indeed.

JacobKStarkey · Mar 5, 2019

I don't think Booker has much of a chance.

Trump will have a tougher uphill battle if he survives any primary challenges (Kasich is strongly considering it) this time around.

Clinton won't be here to kick around.

Bernie has a solid following, yes, but he is not in my top five.

rturner76 · Mar 5, 2019

Silverback said:
I have been in healthcare for 32 years (+) I don't see our current system as exploitative. What will be exploitative is decreasing Physician salaries to levels that they retire, or, leave the country. And it's not just Dr's, it's everyone because they will tax the middle class to death. And everyone who can will leave. Then what's left? The unskilled poor, Old Age pensioners, drug addicts, and Prostitutes. What does that do to your tax base?

and it will all start with healthcare. Remember Obamacare? People have to workhard, sacrifice, practice self reliance, and make good choices. That's how a person becomes successful.

The Tax these people are talking about is pure, and simple theft. And, don't forget, only half the country pays any federal tax. Everyone working will see 50% tax rates. For what? Just to have the corrupt Government tell you what your going to do.

I believe this statement is a bit of an exaggeration, kind of alarmist. It reminds meof a talk radio rant. Well here's a rant from the other side of this.

Taxing someone and providing healthcare for everyone cannot be theft because a service has been purchased. It just so happens people who believe the above would rather pay a higher dollar amount each month for the service so a CEO can take home a 12 million dollar bonus, plus the bonuses for the board of directors and executive management.

Then,while paying this higher dollar amount, nobody who can't pay is covered so the government pays the bill for the uninsured anyway. Even if you go hardcore and take away the insurance of the "unskilled poor. old age pensioners, drug addicts and prostitutes. You know because of people's lifestyle choice to selling their body to keep withdraw at bay (funny how so many people, even medicalprofesionals don't know addiction is a medical condition. We know this because medical insurance pays for treatment).

Take their insurance away and the government will still have to pay their medical bills but instead of a clinic visit it will be a E/R trip and hospital stay of $28,000 Then another trip in about 6 weeks later because they can't see a doctor for follow up or get medication.

OR You can pay less money out of your paycheck and insure everyone. Plus it does not mean there won't be private Doctor's and insurance for those who want a higher level of care. Private practice will not become illegal.

Its really a matter of taking the insurance companies out of the way. Now you get medical assistance that pays for your insurance at an insurance company who makes hundreds of millions of dollars each one of the large ones.

rturner76 · Mar 5, 2019

rturner76 said:
I believe this statement is a bit of an exaggeration, kind of alarmist. It reminds meof a talk radio rant. Well here's a rant from the other side of this.

Taxing someone and providing healthcare for everyone cannot be theft because a service has been purchased. It just so happens people who believe the above would rather pay a higher dollar amount each month for the service so a CEO can take home a 12 million dollar bonus, plus the bonuses for the board of directors and executive management.

Then,while paying this higher dollar amount, nobody who can't pay is covered so the government pays the bill for the uninsured anyway. Even if you go hardcore and take away the insurance of the "unskilled poor. old age pensioners, drug addicts and prostitutes. You know because of people's lifestyle choice to selling their body to keep withdraw at bay (funny how so many people, even medicalprofesionals don't know addiction is a medical condition. We know this because medical insurance pays for treatment).

Take their insurance away and the government will still have to pay their medical bills but instead of a clinic visit it will be a E/R trip and hospital stay of $28,000 Then another trip in about 6 weeks later because they can't see a doctor for follow up or get medication.

OR You can pay less money out of your paycheck and insure everyone. Plus it does not mean there won't be private Doctor's and insurance for those who want a higher level of care. Private practice will not become illegal.

Its really a matter of taking the insurance companies out of the way. Now you get medical assistance that pays for your insurance at an insurance company who makes hundreds of millions of dollars each one of the large ones.

Geez, I always write so much....I'm sick of me!

mark46 · Mar 5, 2019

MAJOR REASONS FOR HIGH COSTS
non-competitive prescription costs
cost of malpractice insurance
cost of insurance administration

JacobKStarkey · Mar 5, 2019

inability to compare medical costs for goods and service across the spectrum of the economy

Bernie will be the next President of the USA

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