Christianity's failure at exorcisms

timewerx

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How Jesus handled evil spirits in the Bible is not how Christians do it. Jesus sometimes engaged them in an intelligent, calm, and respectful dialogue and it didn't take a lot of words.

If anyone thinks only Jesus is capable of handling evil spirits in such manner is mistaken. In fact, our current methods has been described / prophesied in the Book of Jude which is clearly a warning, a sign that we no longer in the right path of following Christ. :( :(

Jude 1:8-10
In the very same way, on the strength of their dreams these ungodly people pollute their own bodies, reject authority and heap abuse on celestial beings. 9 But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not himself dare to condemn him for slander but said, “The Lord rebuke you!”[d] 10 Yet these people slander whatever they do not understand, and the very things they do understand by instinct—as irrational animals do—will destroy them.

Something I experienced personally with evil spirits, they can fake defeat or vulnerability in an exorcism, or simply by casting them out.....This assuming you already believe in false teachings (corrupted / watered-down Gospel). Their fake defeat, and thus, your fake victory will help reinforce your belief in false teachings.

The devil is much more cunning than we imagine them to be. A lot more cunning than even the best Christian and they work a lot harder in their craft....Perhaps why Jesus and Angels treat them with respect.
 

Carl Emerson

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How Jesus handled evil spirits in the Bible is not how Christians do it.

What Christians are you referring to?

Jesus sometimes engaged them in an intelligent, calm, and respectful dialogue and it didn't take a lot of words.

Agree with that...

If anyone thinks only Jesus is capable of handling evil spirits in such manner is mistaken.

Agree again

In fact, our current methods has been described / prophesied in the Book of Jude which is clearly a warning, a sign that we no longer in the right path of following Christ. :( :(

When you say our current methods - who are you referring to and what are the methods??

Jude 1:8-10
In the very same way, on the strength of their dreams these ungodly people pollute their own bodies, reject authority and heap abuse on celestial beings. 9 But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not himself dare to condemn him for slander but said, “The Lord rebuke you!”[d] 10 Yet these people slander whatever they do not understand, and the very things they do understand by instinct—as irrational animals do—will destroy them.

I would have to agree that genuine deliverance ministry is pretty rare and there is a lot of what I call "shadow boxing" going on...

Something I experienced personally with evil spirits, they can fake defeat or vulnerability in an exorcism, or simply by casting them out.....This assuming you already believe in false teachings (corrupted / watered-down Gospel). Their fake defeat, and thus, your fake victory will help reinforce your belief in false teachings.

What are the false teachings you refer to??

The devil is much more cunning than we imagine them to be. A lot more cunning than even the best Christian and they work a lot harder in their craft....Perhaps why Jesus and Angels treat them with respect.[/QUOTE]

There is no contest between the Eternal Holy Spirit and fallen angels that believers will judge.

Any believer hearing from Him and moving in obedience can resist Satan and he will flee.

Dealing with the enemies activity beyond ones personal domain is another issue and few are called to this ministry.

And yes there are many who assume to operate in this domain, and lack the necessary gifts, these folks are unaware how ineffective they are and unwittingly invite spiritual repercussions.

Blessings,

Carl Emerson.
 
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timewerx

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What Christians are you referring to?
This can get controversial so I'm not saying

When you say our current methods - who are you referring to and what are the methods??
Lips are sealed. I think you know. I don't have to say it.

I would have to agree that genuine deliverance ministry is pretty rare and there is a lot of what I call "shadow boxing" going on...

The big danger is re-posession. The Bible warned against this. If the first demon(s) is defeated, it will go away for a while and come back with more of them that is worse than the first.

In extra-biblical sources of info regarding demons. "worse" is regarded as more powerful and more cunning demon. The huge problem dealing with a very cunning demon is they may not always display outward signs. A person can be possessed by such without them or the people around them realizing it. So everyone thinks they have been delivered, yay?!

Little learning is a very dangerous thing!

What are the false teachings you refer to??

The closer the false teaching is to the truth, the greater danger it poses. Mostly Truth mixed with lies is still poison.

I cannot discuss this subject here.

Dealing with the enemies activity beyond ones personal domain is another issue and few are called to this ministry.

And yes there are many who assume to operate in this domain, and lack the necessary gifts, these folks are unaware how ineffective they are and unwittingly invite spiritual repercussions.

Unfortunately, the devil can choose to attack anyone....It might be prudent even if one is not in this ministry (I'm not) they must be knowledgeable enough of their enemy.

For some reason, I've had a fair share of experience being approached by evil spirits. Ranging from nightmares to trying to bloat my ego and some even resulting to supernatural manifestation witnessed by a few others. In most cases, they appeared as an angel.

I've got a few supernatural gifts is probably the reason they're trying to get me to their side.
 
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topher694

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How Jesus handled evil spirits in the Bible is not how Christians do it. Jesus sometimes engaged them in an intelligent, calm, and respectful dialogue and it didn't take a lot of words.
Jesus only spoke to them once, a single phrase (beyond casting them out) and I believe that was for teaching purposes. Point is I would never recommend dialoging with demons. The bible says they are liars, so why would we listen to them? As you pointed out, all they will do is fake being cast out or try to hide and deceive or make a big show and deceive.
 
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Uber Genius

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It would seem to be a mixed bag here in that some are very capable and others less so, and still other deny their influence. I have been doing deliverance ministry as needed since 1989. I have trained a dozen or so how to do it. It happens almost exactly as the data in the NT suggests. It is occasional. It is often in the context of other prayer and then it comes up. It is also best associated with counseling and forgiveness of those who have hurt the individual as well as confession of those the oppressed person has hurt and requests for forgiveness.

I spend no time justifying the practice as once you start praying the demonic spirits leave with enough evidence of same as to provide warrant.
 
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Carl Emerson

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Unfortunately, the devil can choose to attack anyone....It might be prudent even if one is not in this ministry (I'm not) they must be knowledgeable enough of their enemy.

OK two things you say here I can't agree with.

1. Scripture clearly shows us in Job 1:6 that Satan presents himself to God along with other angels and has to get the Lord's permission before he can act... Job 1:12. He definitely does not have the authority to do what he chooses.
Further to this his activities are subject to the anointing of Jesus Luke 10:18
I suggest you study the scripture long and hard to get a clear understanding of how the spiritual battle is being played out.

2. While Paul says in 1 Cor 2:10-11 that they are not unaware or his schemes, this related to the sin of unforgiveness and the spiritual vulnerability it can bring... This was not a directive to make a study of the black arts or something. Eph 5:11-13 makes this quite clear.

Anyone being led into this area of ministry must have the ability as Jesus did to see what the Father is doing in each circumstance. Effective action then becomes a matter of obedience rather than 'knowledge'.

Blessings,

Carl Emerson.




 
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