Has God abandoned his own people?

Neostarwcc

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You know I'm finding the doctrine that God abandoned and condemned 2/3rds of his own people to hell just because 2,000 years ago and to this day they rejected the messiah.

Where did I get 2/3rds from Apparently 1/3rd of the Jews believe that Jesus is the messiah and are saved.

So that leaves 2/3rds of the current Jews non believing. So that means that 2/3rds of the Jews won't be saved until Christ returns and every Jew will acknowledge him as the messiah? Did God abandon those who have abandonded Christ or does God have a plan for them? The closest thing we get to an answer from the Bible is Romans 10:26 in which Paul says all Israel will be saved. But people have said that Paul was excluding the unbelieving Jews. So what will happen to the unbelieving Jews? Surely God has a plan for his own people! This is the hardest thing to accept about Christianity in that somehow God has abandoned his own people because they rejected the Messiah. But yet Christians are now Gods people and God abandoned his chosen people when they rejected him. Nope I find that EXTREMELY difficult to swallow.

There's also psalm 94:13 in which it says God will not abandon his own people so maybe there is a plan for the Israelites?
 
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Neostarwcc

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Where is it implied that a majority of people, Jew or Gentile, are saved? I've always been under the impression that true believers are a minority and always have been.

I didn't say a majority I said 1/3rd of the Jews believe and 2/3rds don't. I got that number from people who have talked to me on CF.

But to answer your question didn't John see a multitude of people in heaven too large to count that many people interpret that as saved people?
 
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RaymondG

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What about the rest of the world? Do you not have a problem with the fact that the Christians are the chosen people now.....most of whom are so because of their origins of birth and family ties.....and the rest of the religions are doomed to hell? Why limit it to the Israelite?
 
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Neostarwcc

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What about the rest of the world? Do you not have a problem with the fact that the Christians are the chosen people now.....most of whom are so because of their origins of birth and family ties.....and the rest of the religions are doomed to hell? Why limit it to the Israelite?

Because Israel is God's chosen people and God made a covenant with Abraham that he wouldn't abandon his descendants. But then again Jesus called a part of Abraham's descendants (The Pharisees) unsaved. So who knows. But it is a tough egg to crack.
 
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Sanoy

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The new Jerusalem has 12 gates named after the 12 tribes. They are never forgotten or displaced. In the past Israel was divided into two nations, the same is true today. There is Israel and there is babylon, two distinct nationalities. Don't think of it as a whole but a divided kingdom. Neither draw the line upon the Jews that profess and deny Christ because many have been taught lies. Divide them as Christ divided the Pharisees from the rest of Israel, upon those that seek Him and those that don't.

The borders of Israel go beyond sea to river today because every believer is now a son of the promise. In that sense, the ratio who reject Jesus is very small.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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We are in the "church era" or dispensation, the "early harvest" period. The bigger "fall" harvest will occur during Christ's millennial rule when all Israel will be resurrected, given the Holy Spirit, and saved.

"God isn't willing that any should perish, but that all come to repentance."
 
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Dave-W

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Paul writes in Romans 11 that all Israel shall be saved, and he is defining Israel as “enemies of the gospel,” so he does NOT mean the Church.
 
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RaymondG

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Because Israel is God's chosen people and God made a covenant with Abraham that he wouldn't abandon his descendants. But then again Jesus called a part of Abraham's descendants (The Pharisees) unsaved. So who knows. But it is a tough egg to crack.
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but God's words will stand forever. It is better to believe that we just do not understand, than to believe that God has/can go back on His word.
Children do not demand that they know the whole matter before continuing forward.........the kingdom of heaven is for such......
 
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OldWiseGuy

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Where is it implied that a majority of people, Jew or Gentile, are saved? I've always been under the impression that true believers are a minority and always have been.

The term "saved" just means one is in a "state of grace". No one is actually saved until the resurrections and judgment. Paul cautions to make our calling and election sure , meaning that it's not a done deal yet. We can still fall from grace.
 
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Neostarwcc

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The new Jerusalem has 12 gates named after the 12 tribes. They are never forgotten or displaced. In the past Israel was divided into two nations, the same is true today. There is Israel and there is babylon. Don't think of it as a whole but a divided kingdom. Neither draw the line upon the Jews that profess and deny Christ. Divide them as Christ divided the Pharisees from the rest of Israel, upon those that seek Him and those that don't.

I didn't really think of that. But what happens to the rest of Abraham's descendants? The ones that currently reject Christ? Are they unsaved and not remembered? Do you see what I'm getting at? I mean Jesus did talk about the Pharisees a lot when he was on earth and basically called them unsaved. So that just proves that just because you're descended from Abraham doesn't automatically mean you're saved. So God just abandoned the Pharisees and accepted the rest? Because the Pharisees weren't pleasing to God because they were as Jesus put it "a bunch of hypocrites?"
 
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Neostarwcc

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Paul writes in Romans 11 that all Israel shall be saved, and he is defining Israel as “enemies of the gospel,” so he does NOT mean the Church.


Which Jews are the enemies of the gospel though? The 1/3rd of the Jews that believe in Jesus?
 
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Sanoy

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I didn't really think of that. But what happens to the rest of Abraham's descendants? The ones that currently reject Christ? Are they unsaved and not remembered? Do you see what I'm getting at? I mean Jesus did talk about the Pharisees a lot when he was on earth and basically called them unsaved. So that just proves that just because you're descended from Abraham doesn't automatically mean you're saved. So God just abandoned the Pharisees and accepted the rest? Because the Pharisees weren't pleasing to God because they were as Jesus put it "a bunch of hypocrites?"
Not all the Pharisees, just those with uncircumcised hearts. Circumcision was like a cattle brand to a God, many nations branded differently. Without a circumcision on their hearts they bore no loyalty to God, they were circumcised to Israel, but not to God. In that sense they are no different than a Gentile who rebels against God. Jesus calls them lawless ones because they did not obey the command they were given. (Jeremiah 7:21-25), he uses demonic language to describe them (Matthew 23:33). These people, within the Pharisees, were not just failing to live up, they were enemies.
 
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Neostarwcc

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Not all the Pharisees, just those with uncircumcised hearts. Circumcision was like a cattle brand to a God, many nations branded differently. Without a circumcision on their hearts they bore no loyalty to God, they were circumcised to Israel, but not to God. In that sense they are no different than a Gentile who rebells against God. Jesus calls them lawless ones because they did not obey the command they were given. (Jeremiah 7:21-25)

That makes sense. So it's kind of like the Golden Calf incident in Exodus 32? I mean they made God so angry that he wanted to wipe them out and start over. It wasn't until he was reminded of his promise to Abraham, Issac, and Jacob that he changed his mind. But surely those Israelites aren't saved because they worshiped a false God and called it "their god".
 
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Jonaitis

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The Old Covenant (Abraham, Moses, and David) is the basis of Israel's relationship to God. Hebrews 8 and Jeremiah 31 says that God has established the New Covenant with the offspring of Abraham, Israel and Judah. Jews are no longer in that obsolete agreement, but under the one Christ enacted. This means the true Israel are those in the New Covenant.

Romans 11 says that Israel shall be saved when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.
 
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Dave-W

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Which Jews are the enemies of the gospel though? The 1/3rd of the Jews that believe in Jesus?
IMO the 1/3 number is high. (Depending of course on how you count someone as a Jew) But in Paul’s day it was no where near that number. The enemies were the Jews staying true to what they believed about ONE God; which to them meant that a human (Our Lord) could not possibly be God.
 
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nonaeroterraqueous

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...just because 2,000 years ago and to this day they rejected the messiah.

The messiah was a physical manifestation of God. Whoever saw him saw God. It's easy to say that you believe in God, when you follow something of your own creation in your head, but when the Son of God appears, and he doesn't look like your god, then it becomes apparent that God isn't what you follow.

The closest thing we get to an answer from the Bible is Romans 10:26 in which Paul says all Israel will be saved.

The Jews are not "all Israel." They are the descendants of Judea, which was named after the tribe of Judah. Judea only contained the tribe of Judah and the tiny tribe of Benjamin, plus a few lucky Levites. "All Israel," includes a much larger number of gentiles who were exiled from Israel and lost their heritage. It includes the other members of the twelve tribes.

There's also psalm 94:13 in which it says God will not abandon his own people so maybe there is a plan for the Israelites?

If they had been God's people, then he would not have abandoned them. If he abandoned them, then they were not his. Yes, God has a plan for the Israelites, but that does not necessarily mean that he has the same plan for the Israelis, which sounds similar, but isn't.
 
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eleos1954

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Because Israel is God's chosen people and God made a covenant with Abraham that he wouldn't abandon his descendants. But then again Jesus called a part of Abraham's descendants (The Pharisees) unsaved. So who knows. But it is a tough egg to crack.

Romans 9

But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel;


Galatians 3

17What I mean is this: The law that came 430 years later does not revoke the covenant previously established by God, so as to cancel the promise. 18For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on a promise; but God freely granted it to Abraham through a promise.

Galatians 3

26 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise (covenant).

Romans 2
GOD'S WORD® Translation

29 Rather, a person is a Jew inwardly, and circumcision is something that happens in a person's heart. Circumcision is spiritual, not just a written rule. That person's praise will come from God, not from people

The chosen ones are those in Christ and anyone including the jews can come to Him and sincerely accept Him as their Lord and Savior.
 
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Kaon

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You know I'm finding the doctrine that God abandoned and condemned 2/3rds of his own people to hell just because 2,000 years ago and to this day they rejected the messiah.

Where did I get 2/3rds from Apparently 1/3rd of the Jews believe that Jesus is the messiah and are saved.

So that leaves 2/3rds of the current Jews non believing. So that means that 2/3rds of the Jews won't be saved until Christ returns and every Jew will acknowledge him as the messiah? Did God abandon those who have abandonded Christ or does God have a plan for them? The closest thing we get to an answer from the Bible is Romans 10:26 in which Paul says all Israel will be saved. But people have said that Paul was excluding the unbelieving Jews. So what will happen to the unbelieving Jews? Surely God has a plan for his own people! This is the hardest thing to accept about Christianity in that somehow God has abandoned his own people because they rejected the Messiah. But yet Christians are now Gods people and God abandoned his chosen people when they rejected him. Nope I find that EXTREMELY difficult to swallow.

There's also psalm 94:13 in which it says God will not abandon his own people so maybe there is a plan for the Israelites?

We are abandoning him. We do so many abominable things, and we have the audacity to call ourselves children of the Most High God. We scoff at reality and accept illusions and lies.

We also justify any way we can the legal burden on those called His people - who should be us (but we don't realize it). Is it any surprise why people will truly believe they followed the Word of God only to find out they were swindled, and they chose the lie?

Also, how can people be members of Israel if they don't know what it is?

It is good, though, that at least people are realizing things now... near the end of the previous age/beginning of the age of apostasy and antichrist.
 
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Neostarwcc

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IMO the 1/3 number is high. (Depending of course on how you count someone as a Jew) But in Paul’s day it was no where near that number. The enemies were the Jews staying true to what they believed about ONE God; which to them meant that a human (Our Lord) could not possibly be God.

Is it? I honestly have no idea. I was just going by what people told me in another thread I had made about a month ago similar to this one. They said that 1/3rd of Jews believe in Jesus. But, I honestly don't know how many Jews accept Jesus as the messiah. But, apparently every Jew is going to accept him when he returns. But someone brought up a good point. The 12 tribes of Israel are going to be inscribed in the New Jerusalem. So God hasn't at the very least, hasn't forgotten about his people.
 
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