More Anti-Semitism from Omar

dzheremi said:

Yes, I'm aware of this. My point is about the conception of the nation and its identification with the faith (Judaism, Christianity, Islam, whatever). I just find it strange that a self-identified atheist would go out on a limb for a "Jewish nation" that a lot of Jews themselves have problems identifying with precisely because of the conflation that is made between it and the Jewish people (plenty of whom do not live in Israel, do not make use of the right of return, etc.) by people who want to blur the lines so as to make criticism of the state of Israel seem racist by default.

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What does my being an atheist have to do with it?

Again, if there was a specific action or policy she was criticizing....then I agree, valid or not she's not being anti-Semitic. To elaborate, even if there was a policy or law created entirely because of Jewish belief.....that's completely open to criticism. Judaism is open to criticism.

She didn't criticize beliefs...or policy...or a nation. She criticized the people who support that nation by questioning their loyalty. If you genuinely believe that it's got nothing to do with the fact that Israel is a Jewish nation and a great manyof those people are Jewish....well....ok.

At what point do you draw the line though?

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tulc said:

If the airline really has done everything possible, I'm going with "get over"...as long as there's no decaff involved, there's simply no excuse for "decaff".
tulc(liberal, but does have some standards)

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Fair enough. Personally, I'm inclined to believe the person being paid to do something is making some effort to do it correctly....and the religious person is more likely to feel attacked for their religion even if they are not....particularly when one is a member of a minority religion.

That's not to say violations of religious freedoms don't happen....but they don't really have anything to do with how one feels about someone's behavior.

rambot said:

That's racist? pfffffffft. I have no idea how that can be considered racist.

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No? Not even a little?

rambot said:

Not really. I mean, I see something like that as lobbying. Unless I'm misunderstanding it of course..... (which I am certainly open to being possible).
As I see it, industry lobbyists provide money to elected officials to represent their interests. I would think there are Jewish groups that are doing this very same thing.

I have a problem with it in so much as I have a problem with lobbying.

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You don't think there's anything particularly anti-Semitic about suggesting those attached to that particular aren't loyal Americans?

iluvatar5150 said:

Just in case everybody’s forgotten, this isn’t merely a conspiratorial rant about those scary, rich Jews. There are actual laws on the books (and others being proposed) that target boycotts against Israel, mostly by prohibiting businesses that contract with state governments from participating in those boycotts. So far, these laws have been failing in court because they violate the first amendment.

She’s right that the Israeli lobby wields too much influence and that these laws suggest misplaced loyalties.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/1/9/18172826/bds-law-israel-boycott-states-explained

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...lizing-state-contractors-that-boycott-israel/

Congress Is Trying to Use the Spending Bill to Criminalize Boycotts of Israel and Other Countries


Senators Working to Slip Israel Anti-Boycott Law Through in Lame Duck


Feinstein, Sanders urge Senate not to include anti-BDS law in spending bill

Senate Democrats block Rubio Mideast policy bill that sparked heated BDS debate

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Why would you post 6 articles about the same 2 laws....and then mischaracterize them as being a result of this "Jewish money" conspiracy?

The articles make it clear these were reactions to the left-wing terrorist sympathisers who advocate for the terrorist state of Palestine. They may be misguided....perhaps unconstitutional....but there's zero evidence they're tied to lobbyists.

rambot said:

Why would it be anti-Semitic and not anti-Zionist?

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Absolutely....you're making claims about the loyalties of many Jewish American donors.

I mean if I were to suggest that Omar's loyalty is questionable because she took money from Palestinian lobbyists....would it be islamophobic?

And that's hypothetical...I know there's a US Campaign for Palestinian something but I don't know if there's an actual lobby tied to them.

usexpat97 said:

Maybe the reason she suggested it is because they do. Call me old-fashioned, but....

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Any proof of this Jewish conspiracy?

rambot said:

I was a bit confused by this repsonse because I asked a why question but got "absolutely" as a response. Those claims are towards a STATE not a religion.

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Actually...it's a claim about corruption. It's a claim about money corrupting the loyalties of those who receive it.

All accusations of corruption involve at least two parties. The one corrupted, and the one corrupting. You don't ever need to mention the ones corrupting to accuse them.

Again this comes back to the lobbyist question. We can't pretend that lobbyists money does not come with certain expectations.

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Do you think no one would have a position on Israel without the benefit of cash?

Does it seem outlandish to you that money sent by Jewish lobby groups would come with expectations?

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Outlandish? No. Unfounded and anti-Semitic? Yup.

I don't buy into the whole Jewish NWO whatever stuff but really; I don't know any other country that got 3.7billion in aid in 2017. The Jewish lobby in the states is clearly managing to create some pretty significant sway if it can get that every year...for DECADES.

So they are prioritizing that aid ABOVE say, clean drinking water for flint. That doesn't reflect well about how your government prioritizes their spending...at least to me.

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Sure...you could frame it that way...if you want. Let's consider a scenario where there is no Israeli or Jewish lobby...

Foreign Affairs are no more than pursuing American interests abroad. In short, a good foreign policy puts our interests first.

On the Israeli issue, you've got the basic options to support Israel or Palestine...or neither...I won't really go into why supporting both sides is a farce. If we support Israel...there's a ton of benefits. We get intelligence, military allies, and really far more than I can explain. These are huge benefits for a region filled with people who hate us.

If we support Palestine....we get...nothing. We would simply be improving the conditions of our enemies. We would be enabling them to kill innocent Israeli civilians (because Hamas is still in charge and they are ok with that)....and who knows, perhaps one day completely destroy Israel. Then we would have a more powerful enemy in the region.

So you're sitting there...trying to figure out what the best foreign policy regarding this issue is for the US. What would you choose?

I honestly think we could remove the lobby entirely and our position will change somewhere between very little and not at all.

iluvatar5150 said:

I can’t tell if these claims of Anti-Semitism are genuine or merely a long-running attempt to undermine charges of other forms of racism.

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With Farrakhan, the Women's March, and other incidents the left excuses....it looks like they're getting pretty comfy with anti-Semitism.

camille70 said:

Even though she may have been speaking of Israel's policies, after the lack of outrage over folks marching in Charlottesville with tiki torches chanting "Jews will not replace us" and the defending of Trump for calling them really good people, I really can't take the selective outrage from the right over anti semitism seriously. If it's upsetting it should be upsetting at all times, not only when someone not well liked says something.

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What exactly was the outrage you were expecting? They're idiots with zero real influence. I don't like them...but as long as they aren't hurting anyone...they aren't breaking the law.

We're talking about a Democratic congresswoman now. That's a real problem.