Where is the Beast right Now

parousia70

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow
Site Supporter
Feb 24, 2002
15,534
4,827
57
Oregon
✟797,954.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
It was the next verse that says they will see Jesus coming that was important because the second coming happens immediately after the trib and Jesus' second coming was not in Ad70.
.

Which Coming was this?:
Matthew 21:40-45
40 “Therefore, when the Lord of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vinedressers?”
41 They said to Him, “He will destroy those wicked men miserably, and lease his vineyard to other vinedressers who will render to him the fruits in their seasons.”
42 Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:

‘The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone.
This was the Lord’s doing,
And it is marvelous in our eyes’?

43 “Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it. 44 And whoever falls on this stone will be broken; but on whomever it falls, it will grind him to powder.”
45 Now when the chief priests and Pharisees heard His parables, they understood that He was speaking of them.

Was he Speaking of them?
Is Jesus not the Chief Cornerstone and Lord of the Vineyard who came and accomplished this?

Or, are we still waiting for this to come to pass?
 
  • Agree
Reactions: David Kent
Upvote 0

ewq1938

I love you three.
Christian Forums Staff
Administrator
Site Supporter
Nov 5, 2011
44,418
6,800
✟916,399.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
Which Coming was this?


There's only one coming left, which would be the second coming when people see Jesus returning just as the verse shows. The 7th trump signals the end of the trib and the return of Christ and the verse in question does say the coming of Christ comes immediately after the tribulation.

So, this alone proves Preterism and the whole AD70 as the tribulation as false.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: David Kent
Upvote 0

parousia70

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow
Site Supporter
Feb 24, 2002
15,534
4,827
57
Oregon
✟797,954.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
There's only one coming left, which would be the second coming when people see Jesus returning just as the verse shows. The 7th trump signals the end of the trib and the return of Christ and the verse in question does say the coming of Christ comes immediately after the tribulation.

So, this alone proves Preterism and the whole AD70 as the tribulation as false.

Ok, so you are saying that the Coming of the Lord of the Vineyard & Chief Cornerstone to Grind those wicked men to powder, take the Kingdom from the 1st century Jews and give the kingdom to others, already happened?

Great.
When?
 
Upvote 0

ebedmelech

My dog Micah in the pic
Site Supporter
Jul 3, 2012
8,998
678
✟187,689.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
I am not surprised by the many responses made here. Many come with the interpretations that the beast was fulfilled in 70AD while others are looking for some certain man who someday shall rule the whole world forcing everyone to take a physical mark. Yet no ONE did the researching on what is God's definition of the beast in Scripture.

The Beast is a symbol representing Satan's kingdom where he is ruling over carnal of fleshly man, who is "AS" the beasts of the field rather than those conformed the image or likeness of God to not act as NATURAL man does. "Beastly!" The times when the beast is spoken of as rising up out of the sea (representing unsaved people of the world), it signifies God permitting Satan to prosper, and consequently the rise of this nefarious carnal nature in man. Actually, the symbolism of the beast itself has been around since the beginning, as "natural man" who is carnal, has corrupted the image in which he was created, and is thus made himself "as" the beasts of the field. For example, people without reason, without knowledge, and without virtue. In other words, natural man doing his own will or doing things instinctively as whatever feels good or what sounds good, as a beast does. These people are the body of Satan, as a beast!

Acts 10:28

  • "And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath showed me that I should not call any man common or unclean."
Ecclesiastes 3:18
  • "I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts."
1 Corinthians 15:32
  • "If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die."
Titus 1:12
  • "One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies."
2 Peter 2:12
  • "But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
In Revelation 13 the first beast (the one with seven heads) is when Christ went to the cross, thus wounding it's head (authority or rule). However, the second beast (two horns like a lamb) is imagery specifically dealing with the time of the end when the Church will be made apostate by the body of false prophets and christs - men who professed to have the power of Christ but spoke like a dragon.

Therefore, many people are fooled to believe that we need to look for some nation(s), empire or one man to be qualified as the beast in their doctrines, not knowing that they are being deceived by false prophets and christs like Joel Osteen, Joyce Meyers, Todd Bentley, Jack Van Impe, Joseph Prince, etc. - people make up the body of the beast today.

So where is the beast, he is right among you.
No...I think not the beast is commonly identified in Daniel 7, where in his vision Daniel sees and describes 4 beast.

Beginning at Daniel 7:17, Daniel is told what these beasts represent, which is 4 Kings. I grant you these kings can be influenced by Satan or by God. It is God who in Isaiah 13:17 says He will "stir up the Medes" to conquer Babylon. This is a prophecy that the answer is given to Daniel. To take that description and make it something other than what Daniel tells us, is to depart from scripture.

One has to be careful and allow scripture to interpret itself. The fouth beast we know to be Rome because of what is told Daniel in Daniel 7:23-27.

That is scripture interpreting itself.
 
Upvote 0

TribulationSigns

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Dec 19, 2017
3,485
1,045
Colorado
✟415,058.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
No...I think not the beast is commonly identified in Daniel 7, where in his vision Daniel sees and describes 4 beast.

Beginning at Daniel 7:17, Daniel is told what these beasts represent, which is 4 Kings. I grant you these kings can be influenced by Satan or by God. It is God who in Isaiah 13:17 says He will "stir up the Medes" to conquer Babylon. This is a prophecy that the answer is given to Daniel. To take that description and make it something other than what Daniel tells us, is to depart from scripture.

One has to be careful and allow scripture to interpret itself. The fouth beast we know to be Rome because of what is told Daniel in Daniel 7:23-27.

That is scripture interpreting itself.

No. God wasn’t talking about literal nations or kings. He is using these empires as a type of enemy against Israel in the Old Testament. It doesn’t mean that we will deal with nations out of that empires but people against God,s people. In New Testament example the professed Christians against elect within God’s congregation.
 
Upvote 0

ebedmelech

My dog Micah in the pic
Site Supporter
Jul 3, 2012
8,998
678
✟187,689.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
No. God wasn’t talking about literal nations or kings. He is using these empires as a type of enemy against Israel in the Old Testament. It doesn’t mean that we will deal with nations out of that empires but people against God,s people. In New Testament example the professed Christians against elect within God’s congregation.
Scripture will not allow your interpretation on this.

Daniel 7:23-24:
23 “Thus he said: ‘The fourth beast will be a fourth kingdom on the earth, which will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth and tread it down and crush it.
24 As for the ten horns, out of this kingdom ten kings will arise; and another will arise after them, and he will be different from the previous ones and will subdue three kings.

Kings have kingdoms, and God has just plainly said the fourth beast is a fourth kingdom...and you're saying it's not???
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: David Kent
Upvote 0

TribulationSigns

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Dec 19, 2017
3,485
1,045
Colorado
✟415,058.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
Scripture will not allow your interpretation on this.

Daniel 7:23-24:
23 “Thus he said: ‘The fourth beast will be a fourth kingdom on the earth, which will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth and tread it down and crush it.
24 As for the ten horns, out of this kingdom ten kings will arise; and another will arise after them, and he will be different from the previous ones and will subdue three kings.

Kings have kingdoms, and God has just plainly said the fourth beast is a fourth kingdom...and you're saying it's not???

Daniel 7:23-24 KJV

[23] Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
[24] And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

I do not think you understand the vision. You are seeing it through carnal lens, thinking God was talking about some physical empire/nations with a political boundary to rise on earth based on ten nations or men. That is NOT the case.

It is a SPIRITUAL kingdom and the beast represents a BODY of unregenerate people who do the will of the devil.

Moreover, the number ten in Scripture signifies fullness of whatever is in view. And the horn in Scripture signifies power. And number three in Scripture signifies the will and purpose of God. Therefore, the biblical interpretation is that it is God's Will that Satan's kingdom will receive the fullness of power to deceive many at that time. This is confirmed in Revelation:

Revelation 17:16-17 KJV
[16] And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the harlot, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
[17] For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

The question is, what "their kingdom" did God talk about here? What kingdom did the ten horns/kings did not receive the kingdom as yet, but for one hour receive power to rule with the beast? What kingdom is this that God allowed them to give THAT kingdom to the beast?

And no, it has NOTHING to do with European, United States, United Nations, or Russia. Remember it is a spiritual kingdom.
 
Upvote 0

Original Happy Camper

One of GODS Children I am a historicist
Site Supporter
Mar 19, 2016
4,195
1,970
Alabama
✟486,806.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
I do not think you understand the vision.
or the interpretation given by the Angel

Remember that prophecy is history in advance and history is prophecy fulfilled.

The four beast in chapter seven are the same as the four metals in the image that is in chapter two of Daniel.

Where it tells us that the Babylon King is the head of Gold

Daniel 2:32
This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass,

Daniel 2:38
And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold. (LION)

Lion of Babylon - Wikipedia
(The Lion of Babylon is an ancient Babylonian symbol. The Lion of Babylon symbolically represented the King of Babylon.

The silver in the image with two arms is

Daniel 5:27-29
27 Tekel; Thou art weighed in the balances, and art found wanting.
28 Peres; Thy kingdom is divided, and given to the Medes and Persians. (BEAR)

www.itiswritten.com/unsealing-daniels-mysteries-lesson-7-kingdoms-in-collision/
The fierceness of the Medo-Persian soldiers is depicted in the bear of verse 5. When the Medes and Persians overthrew Babylon, they also conquered Lydia and Egypt. The three ribs in the bear’s mouth represent these three nations—Babylon, Lydia, and Egypt. Medo-Persia ruled the Middle East from 539 to 331 B.C.
Daniel 2:32
This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass, is the Kingdom that conquered Persia which was Greece, Alexander the Great (LEOPARD)

7. The Kingdom Of Greece | Bible.org
The description of the leopard, one of the swiftest of beasts, characterizes the lightning-like attack of Alexander’s armies which with unprecedented speed swept the world of his day into its power. The four wings on the back of the leopard not only represent the idea of speed, but also symbolize the historic fact that Alexander’s empire was controlled after his death by four principal generals, also, anticipated in the four heads of the beast.

Daniel 2:40
40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise. (terrible beast)

Like all civilizations, however, Ancient Greece eventually fell into decline and was conquered by the Romans, a new and rising world power.

Daniel 7 King James Version (KJV)
7 In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon Daniel had a dream and visions of his head upon his bed: then he wrote the dream, and told the sum of the matters.

2 Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea.

3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.

Water (sea) represents
Revelation 17:15
And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the harlot sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

4 The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.

5 And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.

6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.

7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns. (ROME)
Horns are the ten aryan nations that came out of the Roman Empire

8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

Daniel Bible Prophecy - The Ten Divisions of Rome
Exterminated = "plucked up by the roots"
"The ten divisions of Rome
1. Alemanni - Germany.
2. Franks - France.
3. Burgundians - Switzerland.
4. Suevi - Portugal.
5. Vandals - Exterminated.
6. Visigoths - Spain.
7. Anglo-Saxons - England.
8. Ostrogoths - Exterminated.
9. Lombards - Italy.
10. Heruli - Exterminated.
History
shows that the Western Roman Empire divided into ten separate kingdoms, Alemanni, Franks, Burgundians, Suevi, Vandals, Visigoths, Anglo-Saxons, Ostrogoths, Lombards, and the Heruli; this is the order that they came into prominence in the western empire. History is also unmistakable as to who uprooted the three exterminated kingdoms. It can be attributed to one power only and this power is the little horn of Daniel 7, which is synonymous with the beast from the sea in Revelation 13 and the power that enforces the mark of the beast, the Papal Church of Rome."
 
Last edited:
  • Winner
Reactions: David Kent
Upvote 0

ebedmelech

My dog Micah in the pic
Site Supporter
Jul 3, 2012
8,998
678
✟187,689.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution

Daniel 7:23-24 KJV

[23] Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
[24] And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

I do not think you understand the vision. You are seeing it through carnal lens, thinking God was talking about some physical empire/nations with a political boundary to rise on earth based on ten nations or men. That is NOT the case.

It is a SPIRITUAL kingdom and the beast represents a BODY of unregenerate people who do the will of the devil.

Moreover, the number ten in Scripture signifies fullness of whatever is in view. And the horn in Scripture signifies power. And number three in Scripture signifies the will and purpose of God. Therefore, the biblical interpretation is that it is God's Will that Satan's kingdom will receive the fullness of power to deceive many at that time. This is confirmed in Revelation:

Revelation 17:16-17 KJV
[16] And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the harlot, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
[17] For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

The question is, what "their kingdom" did God talk about here? What kingdom did the ten horns/kings did not receive the kingdom as yet, but for one hour receive power to rule with the beast? What kingdom is this that God allowed them to give THAT kingdom to the beast?

And no, it has NOTHING to do with European, United States, United Nations, or Russia. Remember it is a spiritual kingdom.
You're not understanding the vision. You say it's spiritual, but you go to a passage to back your thinking that's confirming exactly what I said. You do not understand the fourth beast to be Rome but it is. At the time Daniel is given this prophecy he clearly states Belshazzar is King of Babylon.

This idea of yours that their doing the will of Satan is totally discounting that God has the power over Satan and anything he does or attempts to do, Going on some tangent the passage doesn't support equally shows you don't understand that this prophecy was fulfilled. History even shows that.

Ask yourself who is revealing to Daniel what this vision is about... it's Gods angels, which should tell you God has the foreknowledge of all of this...therefore despite what Satan does it's going to come to pass...and it did!!!

The beast of Revelation is the very same beast Daniel is speaking of. That beast is Rome. You have not proven from scripture one bit that your interpretation is proper. You simply say it's spiritual when this is in fact history...it came to pass!!!

All you're doing is forcing your view onto scripture...but you can look at history and tell this is fulfilled...if you dare.
 
Upvote 0

TribulationSigns

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Dec 19, 2017
3,485
1,045
Colorado
✟415,058.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
or the interpretation given by the Angel

Try me.

Remember that prophecy is history in advance and history is
prophecy fulfilled.

Ahem...

The four beast in chapter seven are the same as the four metals in the image that is in chapter two of Daniel.

Yeah? Do you know why God specifically applied the metals to these kingdoms? Do you even know what these metals AND clay signify in Scripture?

Where it tells us that the Babylon King is the head of Gold

Daniel 2:32
This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass,

Daniel 2:38
And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold. (LION)

Lion of Babylon - Wikipedia
(The Lion of Babylon is an ancient Babylonian symbol. The Lion of Babylon symbolically represented the King of Babylon.

Ouchies! You are using Wikipedia as an interpreter of the prophecy?!

Did you really think prophet Daniel was prophesied about King Nebuchadnezzar or was he actually prophesied about the RULE of Satan's kingdom at that time? Read the context carefully:

Daniel 2:36-38 KJV
[36] This is the dream; and we will tell the interpretation thereof before the king.
[37] Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory.
[38] And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold.

Haven't you learned from Sunday school that there is only one Supreme Lord over all the world, and that is God. We are told in the Old Testament that this whole concept of dominion was shared with Adam and Eve before the fall. Adam was given dominion over everything on earth to be vice-regents for God, that is, vice kings to represent God's reign on this plant. Guess what happened when Adam and Eve disobeyed Him? The head of gold represents that dominion when was given (or transferred) to Satan where he was unchallenged ruler until Christ came in his incarnation. That was what happened when more inferior metals came afterward.

And you know what? Did not God the Father gave Jesus all authority in heaven and on earth when Christ ascended into heaven where He is now seated at the right hand of God where is crowned as the King of kings and Lord of Lords? That was a tremendous blow to Satanic powers, principalities, and spiritual wickedness in high places AT THAT TIME. That is where inferior metals come in! The silver, the brass, and iron.

Daniel Bible Prophecy - The Ten Divisions of Rome
Exterminated = "plucked up by the roots"
"The ten divisions of Rome
1. Alemanni - Germany.
2. Franks - France.
3. Burgundians - Switzerland.
4. Suevi - Portugal.
5. Vandals - Exterminated.
6. Visigoths - Spain.
7. Anglo-Saxons - England.
8. Ostrogoths - Exterminated.
9. Lombards - Italy.
10. Heruli - Exterminated.
History
shows that the Western Roman Empire divided into ten separate kingdoms, Alemanni, Franks, Burgundians, Suevi, Vandals, Visigoths, Anglo-Saxons, Ostrogoths, Lombards, and the Heruli; this is the order that they came into prominence in the western empire. History is also unmistakable as to who uprooted the three exterminated kingdoms. It can be attributed to one power only and this power is the little horn of Daniel 7, which is synonymous with the beast from the sea in Revelation 13 and the power that enforces the mark of the beast, the Papal Church of Rome."

Preterism speculation nonsense that deserves no response from me.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

ebedmelech

My dog Micah in the pic
Site Supporter
Jul 3, 2012
8,998
678
✟187,689.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
or the interpretation given by the Angel

Remember that prophecy is history in advance and history is prophecy fulfilled.

The four beast in chapter seven are the same as the four metals in the image that is in chapter two of Daniel.

Where it tells us that the Babylon King is the head of Gold

Daniel 2:32
This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass,

Daniel 2:38
And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold. (LION)

Lion of Babylon - Wikipedia
(The Lion of Babylon is an ancient Babylonian symbol. The Lion of Babylon symbolically represented the King of Babylon.

The silver in the image with two arms is

Daniel 5:27-29
27 Tekel; Thou art weighed in the balances, and art found wanting.
28 Peres; Thy kingdom is divided, and given to the Medes and Persians. (BEAR)

www.itiswritten.com/unsealing-daniels-mysteries-lesson-7-kingdoms-in-collision/
The fierceness of the Medo-Persian soldiers is depicted in the bear of verse 5. When the Medes and Persians overthrew Babylon, they also conquered Lydia and Egypt. The three ribs in the bear’s mouth represent these three nations—Babylon, Lydia, and Egypt. Medo-Persia ruled the Middle East from 539 to 331 B.C.
Daniel 2:32
This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass, is the Kingdom that conquered Persia which was Greece, Alexander the Great (LEOPARD)

7. The Kingdom Of Greece | Bible.org
The description of the leopard, one of the swiftest of beasts, characterizes the lightning-like attack of Alexander’s armies which with unprecedented speed swept the world of his day into its power. The four wings on the back of the leopard not only represent the idea of speed, but also symbolize the historic fact that Alexander’s empire was controlled after his death by four principal generals, also, anticipated in the four heads of the beast.

Daniel 2:40
40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise. (terrible beast)

Like all civilizations, however, Ancient Greece eventually fell into decline and was conquered by the Romans, a new and rising world power.

Daniel 7 King James Version (KJV)
7 In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon Daniel had a dream and visions of his head upon his bed: then he wrote the dream, and told the sum of the matters.

2 Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea.

3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.

Water (sea) represents
Revelation 17:15
And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the harlot sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

4 The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.

5 And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.

6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.

7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns. (ROME)
Horns are the ten aryan nations that came out of the Roman Empire

8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

Daniel Bible Prophecy - The Ten Divisions of Rome
Exterminated = "plucked up by the roots"
"The ten divisions of Rome
1. Alemanni - Germany.
2. Franks - France.
3. Burgundians - Switzerland.
4. Suevi - Portugal.
5. Vandals - Exterminated.
6. Visigoths - Spain.
7. Anglo-Saxons - England.
8. Ostrogoths - Exterminated.
9. Lombards - Italy.
10. Heruli - Exterminated.
History
shows that the Western Roman Empire divided into ten separate kingdoms, Alemanni, Franks, Burgundians, Suevi, Vandals, Visigoths, Anglo-Saxons, Ostrogoths, Lombards, and the Heruli; this is the order that they came into prominence in the western empire. History is also unmistakable as to who uprooted the three exterminated kingdoms. It can be attributed to one power only and this power is the little horn of Daniel 7, which is synonymous with the beast from the sea in Revelation 13 and the power that enforces the mark of the beast, the Papal Church of Rome."
No offense...but I will simply refer this to the "nonsense category". All I need to do to show this nonsense is to refer you to Daniel's interpretation of Nebuchadnezzar's dream in Daniel 2 and it totally annihilates your understanding. Daniel 7 is the same as Daniel 2 given in a different vision.

Your interpretation is way out there Camper, and quite unscriptural.
 
Upvote 0

TribulationSigns

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Dec 19, 2017
3,485
1,045
Colorado
✟415,058.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
You're not understanding the vision. You say it's spiritual, but you go to a passage to back your thinking that's confirming exactly what I said. You do not understand the fourth beast to be Rome but it is. At the time Daniel is given this prophecy he clearly states Belshazzar is King of Babylon.

Sorry to disappoint you, it is YOU who do not understand Scripture. God was not talking about Rome as the fourth beast at all.

Let see, The "happy" camper suggested that the four beasts in chapter seven are the same as the four metals in the image? Okay, let test that theory. Tell me what does the legs, feet, and toes of iron and clay represented in Scripture that applies to the fourth beast that YOU believe is... Rome or some "Revived Roman Empire"?

1.) What does the iron represent in Scripture?
2.) What does the clay represent in Scripture?
3.) And what does it means that "they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men"
4.) Why can't they cleave together?
 
Upvote 0

Original Happy Camper

One of GODS Children I am a historicist
Site Supporter
Mar 19, 2016
4,195
1,970
Alabama
✟486,806.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Haven't you learned from Sunday school that there is only one Supreme Lord over all the world, and that is God.

No I did not but I did learn it on GODS HOLY DAY in Sabbath School

1.) What does the iron represent in Scripture?
2.) What does the clay represent in Scripture?
3.) And what does it means that "they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men"
4.) Why can't they cleave together?

The Divided Kingdoms | Unity through Marriage

After the collapse of Rome in 476 AD, its empire was divided into ten kingdoms, just as Nebuchadnezzar's dream foretold.

The mixture of iron and clay mentioned in Daniel 2 tell us that the divided kingdoms would be partly strong and partly weak. This is indeed what history teaches us about the countries in Europe. There have been numerous attempts to unite a divided Europe.

The attempts by Louis XIV, Charlemagne, Otto von Bismarck, Kaiser Wilhelm I the Great, Adolf Hitler, and even the modern European Union are prime examples.

Unity through War
In 1799, Napoleon set out to unify and rule Europe. Someone protested to Napoleon that Providence would not permit him to rule the world. He is reported to have said, “Providence is on the side of the heaviest artillery.”i

Heavy June rains came and Napoleon's heaviest artillery could not move. His fine cavalry fell in a sunken road and Wellington defeated him at Waterloo in 1815.

Unity through Marriage
2450-queenvictoriax120.jpg

The nations of Europe have also endeavored to unite through alliances and marriages. Ferdinand II of Aragon married Isabella of Castile, uniting their two territories into Spain. Napoleon divorced Josephine to marry Marie Louise of Austria. Queen Victoria, often called the grandmother of Europe, arranged the international marriages of her 51 children and grandchildren. None of these marriages have succeeded in producing unity.
 
Upvote 0

TribulationSigns

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Dec 19, 2017
3,485
1,045
Colorado
✟415,058.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
No I did not but I did learn it on GODS HOLY DAY in Sabbath School

Your point is?


Wait, what?! You did not actually answer my question. I specifically asked you:

1.) What does the iron represent in Scripture?
2.) What does the clay represent in Scripture?

Can't you find in Scripture where God has defined iron and clay as? I did not ask you to look through world history and look for "marriage" nonsense!

Try again!
 
Upvote 0

ewq1938

I love you three.
Christian Forums Staff
Administrator
Site Supporter
Nov 5, 2011
44,418
6,800
✟916,399.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
The beast of Revelation is the very same beast Daniel is speaking of. That beast is Rome.

Except the beast in Rev is destroyed at the second coming's war of Armageddon so that eliminates the beast being Rome. Rome was a beast but of course it fell long ago and thus cannot be the last end times beast.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Original Happy Camper

One of GODS Children I am a historicist
Site Supporter
Mar 19, 2016
4,195
1,970
Alabama
✟486,806.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
No offense...but I will simply refer this to the "nonsense category". All I need to do to show this nonsense is to refer you to Daniel's interpretation of Nebuchadnezzar's dream in Daniel 2 and it totally annihilates your understanding. Daniel 7 is the same as Daniel 2 given in a different vision.

Your interpretation is way out there Camper, and quite unscriptural.

Do you disagree with this statement?

Remember that prophecy is history in advance and history is prophecy fulfilled.
 
Upvote 0

TribulationSigns

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Dec 19, 2017
3,485
1,045
Colorado
✟415,058.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
Except the beast in Rev is destroyed at the second coming's war of Armageddon so that eliminates the beast being Rome.

You are right. This has nothing to do with Rome, or even Revived Roman Empire, United Nation or America, etc. Yet the question is what does this beast actually represents? What is the battle of Armageddon like...really?
 
Upvote 0

TribulationSigns

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Dec 19, 2017
3,485
1,045
Colorado
✟415,058.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
Do you disagree with this statement?

Remember that prophecy is history in advance and history is prophecy fulfilled.

According to Scripture:

Revelation 1:19 KJV
[19] Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

All prophecies, both fulfilled and unfulfilled, are not strictly about "history in advance and history is a prophecy fulfilled." Because some prophecies were ongoing and it is not according to "world history" with empire rising and falling.
 
Upvote 0

Original Happy Camper

One of GODS Children I am a historicist
Site Supporter
Mar 19, 2016
4,195
1,970
Alabama
✟486,806.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
1.) What does the iron represent in Scripture?
2.) What does the clay represent in Scripture?

Iron = strength
Clay= weakness
Daniel 2:42
And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Original Happy Camper

One of GODS Children I am a historicist
Site Supporter
Mar 19, 2016
4,195
1,970
Alabama
✟486,806.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
According to Scripture:

Revelation 1:19 KJV
[19] Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

All prophecies, both fulfilled and unfulfilled, are not strictly about "history in advance and history is a prophecy fulfilled." Because some prophecies were ongoing and it is not according to "world history" with empire rising and falling.

Prophecy foretelling future messiah

How many prophecies are there in the Old Testament that were fulfilled by Jesus? Scholars differ in their answers, generally ranging from about 200 to 400.

J. Barton Payne in his Encyclopedia of Bible Prophecy, gives a list of 191 prophecies that he deems as having a "personal reference to Christ."

Another scholar, Alfred Edersheim, concluded that there at least 456 passages in the Old Testament that Jewish Rabbis historically have interpreted as being about the Messiah.

List of Old Testament prophecies fulfilled by Jesus

The above site lists 100 prophetic statements fulfilled by Jesus Christ

Thus prophecy is history in advance and history is prophecy fulfilled
 
Upvote 0