Which day to worship God.

Cribstyl said:

The fact is, the scriptures is not silent about day(s) to honor God.

Rom 14:4 - Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

Rom 14:5 - One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Rom 14:6 - He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

Rom 14:7 - For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.

Rom 14:8 - For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.

Rom 14:9 - For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

Rom 14:10 - But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

Rom 14:11 - For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

Rom 14:12 - So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

Rom 14:13 - Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

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The Most High God designated a specific day - the 7th day - to hold as a holy convocation to Him.

The way to time-keep has been given in the canon - as well as other Holy Days ("holidays") His people should observe: Exodus 12:1-51.

Also Deuteronomy 16.

klutedavid said:

Hold on mmksparbud.

From one new moon to another and from one Sabbath to another...(Isaiah 66:23)

Do you celebrate the new moon?

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It marked the start of the month--usually after Sabbath. In the new earth the moon itself may not be that discernable as Jesus is the light of the world and there will be no night there--but there will still be a sun and moon---not there will be no time. The Sabbath and the new moon mark time. We are all aware of new moons, they're right on the calendar. This was associated with animal sacrifice which we no longer do, the sabbath was not -however, it does not point to the cross as the other festivals do. We are not an agricultural society anymore and it has gone by the wayside, but there is nothing wrong with keeping it today. It was set up as a way to keep time. I doubt anyone thinks about it--it is not one of the 10 commandments.

ace of hearts said:

Where? Genesis? No.No. future tense wouldn't make any sense in Genesis 2.Your reliance on words divorced from context don't support your position. SorryYour position makes no sense here.I think I can buy that. Mat 11:28-30.I'm a little unclear what you mean here. It appears double speak to me. You need to be more solidly clear for me.I'm not understanding something here. What piece of information are you talking about?

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Please paraphrase to me what you think I'm saying.

Geneses 2 being "future tense". If God ceased to work on the 7th day; why does Jesus say "My Father works hitherto and I work."

If God "rested" than why did Jesus say that? This is in context of the sabbath. So you can not say I am taking that out of context.

John 5:
8 Jesus saith unto him, Rise, take up thy bed, and walk.

9 And immediately the man was made whole, and took up his bed, and walked: and on the same day was the sabbath.

10 The Jews therefore said unto him that was cured, It is the sabbath day: it is not lawful for thee to carry thy bed.

11 He answered them, He that made me whole, the same said unto me, Take up thy bed, and walk.

12 Then asked they him, What man is that which said unto thee, Take up thy bed, and walk?

13 And he that was healed wist not who it was: for Jesus had conveyed himself away, a multitude being in that place.

14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

15 The man departed, and told the Jews that it was Jesus, which had made him whole.

16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.

17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.

18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.

I.E. so Jesus is "working" because he sees the Father "working". So if God "rested on the 7th day" in Genesis; than - what's going on here? What's Jesus talking about?

Next verse: Why does Jesus say He's lord of the sabbath?

Mark 2
24 And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful?

25 And he said unto them, Have ye never read what David did, when he had need, and was an hungred, he, and they that were with him?

26 How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and did eat the shewbread, which is not lawful to eat but for the priests, and gave also to them which were with him?

27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

The sabbath is made for man. They are commanded not to work, yet they are working. Why is that lawful; and how is Jesus "Lord of the sabbath if it wasn't created for Him?

"For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:" Colossians 1:16

Next verse: Please explain to me how what I said was "out of context"?

Matthew 12:
2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.

3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him;

4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?

5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?

6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.

7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.

8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

9 And when he was departed thence, he went into their synagogue:

10 And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.

11 And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?

12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

13 Then saith he to the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it forth; and it was restored whole, like as the other.

14 Then the Pharisees went out, and held a council against him, how they might destroy him.

So again, if I'm taking this out of context; why the contradiction here? Moses gave them a command not to work. Jesus says it's OK to do well on the sabbath. Why? Because He's "Lord of the sabbath". Well what does that mean? What is Jesus's relation to the "day of rest" ultimately?

Why is this (following) statement unclear to you?

"Which if we get into the whole notion of Jesus having delivered the believer from the law (the entirety of it - which yes, also includes the moral law). The law has killed them on account of their being condemned for their sin (which Christ atoned for) so now they can be enjoined to Him. The agent thereof that does this is the Holy Ghost; who cleaves Himself to the spirit of the believer; thus making them "new creatures in Christ". So, the believer, although freed from even the moral law, still obeys God because the Holy Ghost can not deny Himself - obviously God obeys His own law."

Cribstyl said:

Ex 12:15-17 show that the first day of this Passover ceremony is a holy convocation as well as the seventh. Holy convocations are not moral commandments

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Morality is a creation of man; a holy convocation should be observed.

The first day of the Passover is the 14th day of the year - it is a Sabbath in and of itself because it is specifically the 14th (7×2) day of the year. It is a Holy convocation as the Passover. The next day is unleavened bread observance for 7 days (technically 8 including Passover). The last day of Unleavened bread is the 21st day of the year - a Sabbath, and end to that section of Holy days.

The next Holy day is Pentecost.

Then Trumpets, Atonement, and Sukkot in the fall (the end of days).

This is why the Sabbath is a specific day, and serves several purposes in its existence.

Cribstyl said:

Yes, Sabbath was given to the Children of Israel as a sign of the covenant made with Moses. (The Law)

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Whose law was it that commanded the Children of Israel to follow the Sabbath? (Hint: It wasn't Moses's Law.)

What did the Word of God Himself say are His brother/mother/family - the people of the Most High God? (Matthew 12:46-50)

What is the will of the Most High God? (Micah 6:8, Deuteronomy 11:1)

Who/What is Israel? (Deuteronomy 7:6, Deuteronomy 14:2)

What does it mean to be Holy? (1 Peter 1:16, Romans 7:12)

There is not one place where the Most High God made a distinction between the laws for which the group of redeemed people should adhere to. His Laws are commandments - given to humans to be received as spiritual basics for a holy people. His Laws don't stop unless the Word of God Himself says so.

mmksparbud said:

It marked the start of the month--usually after Sabbath. In the new earth the moon itself may not be that discernable as Jesus is the light of the world and there will be no night there--but there will still be a sun and moon---not there will be no time. The Sabbath and the new moon mark time. We are all aware of new moons, they're right on the calendar. This was associated with animal sacrifice which we no longer do, the sabbath was not -however, it does not point to the cross as the other festivals do. We are not an agricultural society anymore and it has gone by the wayside, but there is nothing wrong with keeping it today. It was set up as a way to keep time. I doubt anyone thinks about it--it is not one of the 10 commandments.

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Afflicting widows and orphans is not one of the ten commandments. Care to explain why you ignore such an important law?

James 1:27
Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world.

For some reason you highlight the ten commandments and miss the elephant in the room. Christian behavior according to James is loving widows and orphans, yet you do not mention it and probably never will.

Do you think someone who abused widows and orphans and called themselves a Christian, would be loved by Jesus?

There is something deeply wrong with your interpretation of the scripture. Your missing the important matters that the scripture declares.

The quotation in Isaiah concerning new moons cannot be erased, you said it marked time. The new moon marked the start of the month and the count of days to determine the Sabbath day. Both the new moon and Sabbaths are mentioned, you can't ignore one and hold onto the other. You either celebrate both or ignore both.

I have no idea why you employ such a faulty interpretation of the scripture.

The Righterzpen said:

Please paraphrase to me what you think I'm saying.

Geneses 2 being "future tense". If God ceased to work on the 7th day; why does Jesus say "My Father works hitherto and I work."

If God "rested" than why did Jesus say that? This is in context of the sabbath. So you can not say I am taking that out of context.

John 5:
8 Jesus saith unto him, Rise, take up thy bed, and walk.

9 And immediately the man was made whole, and took up his bed, and walked: and on the same day was the sabbath.

10 The Jews therefore said unto him that was cured, It is the sabbath day: it is not lawful for thee to carry thy bed.

11 He answered them, He that made me whole, the same said unto me, Take up thy bed, and walk.

12 Then asked they him, What man is that which said unto thee, Take up thy bed, and walk?

13 And he that was healed wist not who it was: for Jesus had conveyed himself away, a multitude being in that place.

14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

15 The man departed, and told the Jews that it was Jesus, which had made him whole.

16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.

17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.

18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.

I.E. so Jesus is "working" because he sees the Father "working". So if God "rested on the 7th day" in Genesis; than - what's going on here? What's Jesus talking about?

Next verse: Why does Jesus say He's lord of the sabbath?

Mark 2
24 And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful?

25 And he said unto them, Have ye never read what David did, when he had need, and was an hungred, he, and they that were with him?

26 How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and did eat the shewbread, which is not lawful to eat but for the priests, and gave also to them which were with him?

27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

The sabbath is made for man. They are commanded not to work, yet they are working. Why is that lawful; and how is Jesus "Lord of the sabbath if it wasn't created for Him?

"For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:" Colossians 1:16

Next verse: Please explain to me how what I said was "out of context"?

Matthew 12:
2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.

3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him;

4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?

5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?

6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.

7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.

8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

9 And when he was departed thence, he went into their synagogue:

10 And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.

11 And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?

12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

13 Then saith he to the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it forth; and it was restored whole, like as the other.

14 Then the Pharisees went out, and held a council against him, how they might destroy him.

So again, if I'm taking this out of context; why the contradiction here? Moses gave them a command not to work. Jesus says it's OK to do well on the sabbath. Why? Because He's "Lord of the sabbath". Well what does that mean? What is Jesus's relation to the "day of rest" ultimately?

Why is this (following) statement unclear to you?

"Which if we get into the whole notion of Jesus having delivered the believer from the law (the entirety of it - which yes, also includes the moral law). The law has killed them on account of their being condemned for their sin (which Christ atoned for) so now they can be enjoined to Him. The agent thereof that does this is the Holy Ghost; who cleaves Himself to the spirit of the believer; thus making them "new creatures in Christ". So, the believer, although freed from even the moral law, still obeys God because the Holy Ghost can not deny Himself - obviously God obeys His own law."

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Your obedience to Jesus is far deeper than what the mere letter of the law demands.

Not stealing something from someone is honoring the law, but that is not a Christian trait or a fruit of the Holy Spirit.

Generosity towards others is beyond what the law requires and is a fruit of the Spirit. Being kind and generous exceeds the demand of the law against theft, being kind and generous is a Christian fruit. Connect the dots please.

Obeying the law is legalism and an insult to the grace given to us in Christ Jesus.

klutedavid said:

Afflicting widows and orphans is not one of the ten commandments. Care to explain why you ignore such an important law?

James 1:27
Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world.

For some reason you highlight the ten commandments and miss the elephant in the room. Christian behavior according to James is loving widows and orphans, yet you do not mention it and probably never will.

Do you think someone who abused widows and orphans and called themselves a Christian, would be loved by Jesus?

There is something deeply wrong with your interpretation of the scripture. Your missing the important matters that the scripture declares.

The quotation in Isaiah concerning new moons cannot be erased, you said it marked time. The new moon marked the start of the month and the count of days to determine the Sabbath day. Both the new moon and Sabbaths are mentioned, you can't ignore one and hold onto the other. You either celebrate both or ignore both.

I have no idea why you employ such a faulty interpretation of the scripture.

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Already did. You are welcome to keep it. I am not sacrificing any animal. You can if you want.

mmksparbud said:

Already did. You are welcome to keep it. I am not sacrificing any animal. You can if you want.

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The point of animal sacrifice was to point toward the Redeemer. It was also meant to convict us of our sin - the fact than an innocent animal had to die for our foolishness/sin. Of course, people got used to bar-b-q's and such (they ate the sacrifices), and eventually the Most High grew tired of our vain oblations. (Isaiah 1:13; technically, I would recommend the entire chapter.)

The Redeemer is the Lamb worthy to open the book of life. The Sacrifice has already been had.

klutedavid said:

Your obedience to Jesus is far deeper than what the mere letter of the law demands.

Not stealing something from someone is honoring the law, but that is not a Christian trait or a fruit of the Holy Spirit.

Generosity towards others is beyond what the law requires and is a fruit of the Spirit. Being kind and generous exceeds the demand of the law against theft, being kind and generous is a Christian fruit. Connect the dots please.

Obeying the law is legalism and an insult to the grace given to us in Christ Jesus.

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Yet something as "being kind and generous" is also to be exercised in wisdom. You're not going to "be kind and generous" by giving a drug addict money. That's not "Christian fruit".

Kaon said:

The point of animal sacrifice was to point toward the Redeemer. It was also meant to convict us of our sin - the fact than an innocent animal had to die for our foolishness/sin. Of course, people got used to bar-b-q's and such (they ate the sacrifices), and eventually the Most High grew tired of our vain oblations. (Isaiah 1:13; technically, I would recommend the entire chapter.)

The Redeemer is the Lamb worthy to open the book of life. The Sacrifice has already been had.

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I know that!! I was being a bit sarcastic---I have a problem with that!

The Righterzpen said:

Yet something as "being kind and generous" is also to be exercised in wisdom. You're not going to "be kind and generous" by giving a drug addict money. That's not "Christian fruit".

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Who said anything about financing a drug addict?

The law is satisfied in the extreme by any Christian walking in the Holy Spirit.

klutedavid said:

Your obedience to Jesus is far deeper than what the mere letter of the law demands.

Not stealing something from someone is honoring the law, but that is not a Christian trait or a fruit of the Holy Spirit.

Generosity towards others is beyond what the law requires and is a fruit of the Spirit. Being kind and generous exceeds the demand of the law against theft, being kind and generous is a Christian fruit. Connect the dots please.

Obeying the law is legalism and an insult to the grace given to us in Christ Jesus.

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Not sure what your response here had to do with what I'd written?

mmksparbud said:

I know that!! I was being a bit sarcastic---I have a problem with that!

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Gotcha. Just saying it for the audience.

Cribstyl said:

The Passover is primarily about the last plague, when the angel of death passed over the first born sons of the children Israel. ( not the first born sons of Egypt.) This event caused Pharaoh to let the Children of Israel go.
Moses commanded that those who are circumcised can also keep the Passover.
Jesus mentioned that Moses gave you circumcision because it was passed down from the fathers. (implying that Sabbath was not passed down from the fathers.) So, circumcision is done when it fall on the Sabbath because it preceded the giving of the Sabbath.

Jhn 7:22 - Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers, and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man.

Jhn 7:23 - If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?

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The Passover is a foreshadowing of the sacrifice of Christ.

Neither Moses, nor any other human save the Word of God Himself have the authority to command anything - least of all LAW.

The "Law of Moses" is not from Moses, it was directly from the Most High God. So, when the argument is used that the "Law of Moses" is done away with, what is being said is that the Law of God is done away with - because He gave the Law to Moses to communicate to the Hebrews.

It is very spiritually dangerous to use this dogma as an argument for dismissing or nullifying ANY law of the Most High God. Where does the Most High God, or the Word of God Himself ever say any part of the Law given by Him is null, void or no longer in effect.

Only the Most High God, or the Word of God Himself are QUALIFIED/WORTHY to give and take Law - not Moses, or an angel, etc.

Kaon said:

The Passover is a foreshadowing of the sacrifice of Christ.

Neither Moses, nor any other human save the Word of God Himself have the authority to command anything - least of all LAW.

The "Law of Moses" is not from Moses, it was directly from the Most High God. So, when the argument is used that the "Law of Moses" is done away with, what is being said is that the Law of God is done away with - because He gave the Law to Moses to communicate to the Hebrews.

It is very spiritually dangerous to use this dogma as an argument for dismissing or nullifying ANY law of the Most High God. Where does the Most High God, or the Word of God Himself ever say any part of the Law given by Him is null, void or no longer in effect.

Only the Most High God, or the Word of God Himself are QUALIFIED/WORTHY to give and take Law - not Moses, or an angel, etc.

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God made the distinction in the 2 laws. He wrote the 10 Himself on stone and placed them inside the Ark. He dictated the ceremonial laws to Moses who wrote them on parchment (or animal skins) and those were placed outside the ark. Those ceremonial laws that pointed to Jesus as the sacrificial lamb would no longer be needed after His death on the cross for He fulfilled all those and is now also our High Priest. The whole book of Hebrew deals with this.

mmksparbud said:

God made the distinction in the 2 laws. He wrote the 10 Himself on stone and placed them inside the Ark.

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Ok.

He dictated the ceremonial laws to Moses who wrote them on parchment (or animal skins) and those were placed outside the ark. Those ceremonial laws that pointed to Jesus as the sacrificial lamb would no longer be needed after His death on the cross for He fulfilled all those and is now also our High Priest. The whole book of Hebrew deals with this.

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But where did the Most High God actually say this? Where does He actually intimate at there being two distinct laws for two distinct peoples? Where does He say that any of those Laws are inapplicable to people who He would call His people.

The Most High God is the authority on the Law.