Noahide Buddhism and Hinduism

juvenissun · Mar 3, 2019

Yusuphhai said:
Question: I would be interested in your view regarding Buddhism. For example, do you believe that all Buddhists are nothing more than idol worshippers and that they must be converted to follow the Seven Noahide Laws, and/or do you feel that that there is something of value in Buddhist methods for spiritual cultivation?

I don't write so much as you do. I only give simple idea:
Buddhism is good, but is not good enough.
It is not good enough because it does not, and can not, answer some key questions. So, only Buddhism is not able to have a complete theology.

juvenissun · Mar 3, 2019

Yusuphhai said:
Noahide Law can not save, but it is a principle for all mankind. If one believe in Yeshua, he should not sin against God’s law. Talmud has wrong part, but it is still a kind of senior spirit.

To a Buddhist, need tell him where is wrong, but not simply say “you are an idol worshiper” At least Noahidism offers a friendly way for the relationship with Buddhist. What is the way of Christianity? I have talked to Buddhist. If he doesn’t want to talk about Christianity, Noahide Buddhism could be a topic. I agree without Yeshua’s blood no salvation. But some national spirits are good and unique. If Christianity is more fair and humble to other religions and other nations, distrust and Resistance assimilation will be less. If Yeshua is not quite Jewish and does not know the cultures of the whole world, I would not trust him.

Buddhism has thousands of scriptures. It is a trap to one who wants to appreciate all contents of Buddhism. Buddhism represents human wisdom which is very high and very deep, but it does not know God's wisdom which is beyond human wisdom. A few simple questions is able to test it out.

juvenissun · Mar 3, 2019

Yusuphhai said:
I am favorite to Hindu Mantra through Buddhist music. This is a main way to build the bridge between Noahidism and Buddhism &Hinduism presently. Maybe it has some heritage from Abrahamic Monotheism. Abraham gave his sons from Keturah spiritual gifts, then sent them toward East. Maybe one tribe moved to India. “Brahman” sounds a little like “Abraham”. Buddhism the new branch effects Eastern Asia much. The Hindu spirit is so quite unique and national that other nations could not learn much. Much Sanskrit could not be translated into other languages well. Mantra means spirit can be away from unnecessary thoughts and annoyance. Just listen to Mantra, need not translate, it is still effective, as medical Mantra does. Because no translation, the tendency toward idol worship of Hindu Mantra can be filtered. Learning Hindu and Buddhist空性（the unique Hindu spirit, a little like “rest” ）is a pleasant travel back to look for hidden treasures from Abrahamic Oriental heritage. This can explain why so many American Jewish are learning from it.

Human wisdom, expressed by all religions except the Christianity, is much easier and more reasonable to be accepted by human.
God's wisdom is odd to human. But it is the true wisdom and has no match by human.
When you study human wisdom shown in all other religions, be very careful, and do not get lost. A bridge or bridges extended from them to the top level of Christianity is impossible and does not exists.

juvenissun · Mar 3, 2019

Yusuphhai said:
Down to Earth
Tzvi Freeman
When it all began, Heaven was here on Earth.
The physical plane, more than any of the higher spiritual worlds, was the place where the Divine Presence yearned to be.
But Man, step by step, banished the Divine Presence from its home, with a tree of knowledge, with a man who murdered his brother, with all those things that human beings do . . .
Since Man chased it away, only Man can bring it back. And this began with Abraham, who proclaimed Oneness for all the world.
And it ends with us. Our generation will bring Heaven back down to Earth.

You need to know that the current earth is NOT the original earth. It is a degraded earth which goes nowhere. God is not going to change it back. We have to MOVE back to the original earth.

Yusuphhai · Mar 3, 2019

juvenissun said:
Yusuphhai said: ↑
Question: I would be interested in your view regarding Buddhism. For example, do you believe that all Buddhists are nothing more than idol worshippers and that they must be converted to follow the Seven Noahide Laws, and/or do you feel that that there is something of value in Buddhist methods for spiritual cultivation?

This part was not what I said.

I don’t think all Buddhists are nothing more than idol worshippers. It depends on how to define “idol”. Buddhism is worth respecting because it offers some ways to resist idol worship. In Ancient Eastern Asia, Buddhism offered a higher level thinking to seek God, though it was not strict Monotheism and still had the tendency to worship idols(at least to the common Buddhists ). Thank Catholic and Protestant preachers, they brought Monotheism and Christ to Eastern Asia and effect many now.

From the perspective of Noahidism, the seven Laws are for all mankind. But Jewish Sanhedrin
have no right to ask all mankind to observe. To American Christian, U.S. is ruled by Secular laws but not religious laws and Jewish Sanhedrin can not produce Messiah. Similarly when Buddhists seek the truth, Noahide Buddhism can be an option. Buddhist is still Buddhist. Judaism need not Gentile to convert. Practicable group meeting of Noahide is not mature now.

juvenissun said:
So, only Buddhism is not able to have a complete theology.

So another opinion thinks Buddhism is not a religion, because in Buddhism all worship will cease.

juvenissun said:
Buddhism has thousands of scriptures. It is a trap to one who wants to appreciate all contents of Buddhism. Buddhism represents human wisdom which is very high and very deep, but it does not know God's wisdom which is beyond human wisdom. A few simple questions is able to test it out.

Zen can need not any Buddhist scriptures, to me I can rely on Biblical scriptures. This is freedom of zen.

juvenissun said:
A bridge or bridges extended from them to the top level of Christianity is impossible and does not exists.

Who can go to the top level of Christianity? Maybe John Calvin. Certainly Ｉcan’t.

juvenissun · Mar 3, 2019

Yusuphhai said:
Who can go to the top level of Christianity? Maybe John Calvin. Certainly Ｉcan’t.

The top level of Christianity is the theology which deals with sin. All other religions do not have a complete theology on that issue.

juvenissun · Mar 3, 2019

Yusuphhai said:
So another opinion thinks Buddhism is not a religion, because in Buddhism all worship will cease.

Buddhism IS a religion even without idols. It MUST have a concept of life after life. With that, it is a religion.

juvenissun · Mar 3, 2019

Yusuphhai said:
Zen can need not any Buddhist scriptures, to me I can rely on Biblical scriptures. This is freedom of zen.

Zen does not need a scripture to work. But Zen MUST have scriptures to lay the foundation. Otherwise, it would be equal to Imagination. Zen echos a correspondent idea in Christianity, but with a much inferior quality.

danny ski · Mar 3, 2019

CodyFaith said:
"Noahide laws" cannot save Gentiles. Gentiles can only be saved by trusting in the blood of Jesus to atone for their sin, just as Jews can only be saved the same way.

This Talmudic concept is false.

There is no concept of salvation in Judaism nor Noahide Laws which are derived from Judaism. The Salvation is a Christian concept.

CodyFaith · Mar 3, 2019

danny ski said:
There is no concept of salvation in Judaism nor Noahide Laws which are derived from Judaism. The Salvation is a Christian concept.

Mhm I know. Which is why a Christian believing there is value to the Talmudic concept of Noahide laws is unfounded. In the same way a Jew who practices Judaism sees no value in living by the Quaran and concepts/laws found in the Quaran, Christians should not accept things in the Talmud because it is not logical as the Talmud clearly contradicts Christian scripture in numerous places, the Noahidic laws being one of them. The Noahide laws can't be accepted by themselves rationally, but someone would also need to accept the concept that a Gentile who lives by those is deemed righteous and can earn a place in the "World To Come". It's a package deal, so to speak.

One of the reasons it's a package deal and only a concept of Judaism is because there is no mention of it in the New Testament. If it were good for a gentile Christian to live by this set of Gentile specific laws, it would have been mentioned by Christ or by the writers of the Letters.

danny ski · Mar 3, 2019

CodyFaith said:
Mhm I know. Which is why a Christian believing there is value to the Talmudic concept of Noahide laws is unfounded. In the same way a Jew who practices Judaism sees no value in living by the Quaran and concepts/laws found in the Quaran, Christians should not accept things in the Talmud because it is not logical as the Talmud clearly contradicts Christian scripture in numerous places, the Noahidic laws being one of them. The Noahide laws can't be accepted by themselves rationally, but someone would also need to accept the concept that a Gentile who lives by those is deemed righteous and can earn a place in the "World To Come". It's a package deal, so to speak.

One of the reasons it's a package deal and only a concept of Judaism is because there is no mention of it in the New Testament. If it were good for a gentile Christian to live by this set of Gentile specific laws, it would have been mentioned by Christ or by the writers of the Letters.

Acts 15 19-21- those are Noahide Laws. Christianity is not that different from Judaism when it comes to the application of the Noahide Laws. Early Christians used them to circumvent the Mosaic Law. Judaism uses them as an alternative to conversation. Also.

CodyFaith · Mar 3, 2019

danny ski said:
Acts 15 19-21- those are Noahide Laws. Christianity is not that different from Judaism when it comes to the application of the Noahide Laws. Early Christians used them to circumvent the Mosaic Law. Judaism uses them as an alternative to conversation. Also.

No, they aren't. The prohibition against blood traces back to Noah yes, but the prohibition of fornication dates back to the very beginning of creation prior to Noah with the creation of marriage. Likewise, God would not have wanted those who believed in him prior to Noah to eat food dedicated to idols. In Genesis when God commanded Noah/humanity to abstain from blood, while yes this did bring about a more direct command to be humane, there was not a distinct set of 7 commands given which man was to follow or not to. There is no evidence for such besides Jewish tradition and philosophy.

Do you have a source that states early gentile Christians followed the Noahide laws?

Regardless if you do or don't, this would not prove it to be a good thing. Many early "Christians" were gnostic, and clearly gnosticism is not good. The Church was never free from the possibility of falling into error.

Noahide laws are not Christian. They are only found within Judaism. Naturally as a Jew whose religion is Judaism you will believe the Noahide laws to be good and true, but Christians should avoid being brought under these laws.

Christians are not to be "brought under" anything. We are free.
"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath" - God, Mark 2:27

danny ski · Mar 4, 2019

CodyFaith said:
No, they aren't. The prohibition against blood traces back to Noah yes, but the prohibition of fornication dates back to the very beginning of creation prior to Noah with the creation of marriage. Likewise, God would not have wanted those who believed in him prior to Noah to eat food dedicated to idols. In Genesis when God commanded Noah/humanity to abstain from blood, while yes this did bring about a more direct command to be humane, there was not a distinct set of 7 commands given which man was to follow or not to. There is no evidence for such besides Jewish tradition and philosophy.

Do you have a source that states early gentile Christians followed the Noahide laws?

Regardless if you do or don't, this would not prove it to be a good thing. Many early "Christians" were gnostic, and clearly gnosticism is not good. The Church was never free from the possibility of falling into error.

Noahide laws are not Christian. They are only found within Judaism. Naturally as a Jew whose religion is Judaism you will believe the Noahide laws to be good and true, but Christians should avoid being brought under these laws.

Christians are not to be "brought under" anything. We are free.
"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath" - God, Mark 2:27

Personally, I don't care about the Noahide Laws or Christianity, one way or another. But, the judgement in the Acts came from somewhere and people who made that judgement, if they were proper Jews, would have consulted the Torah- the only Scripture available at the time. That's why their opinion is so strikingly similar to the Noahide commandments because they obtained it in the same place as today's Jewish proponents of the Noahide Laws.

Yusuphhai · Mar 4, 2019

Gen 25:6 but to the sons of Abraham’s concubines, Abraham gave gifts. He sent them away from Isaac his son, while he yet lived, eastward, to the east country.

gifts:
H4979
מתּנה
mattânâh
mat-taw-naw'
Feminine of H4976; a present; specifically (in a good sense) a sacrificial offering, (in a bad sense) a bribe: - gift.

Yusuphhai · Mar 4, 2019

Jewish Zen Wisdom

1. Let your mind be as a floating cloud. Let your stillness be as the wooded glen. And sit up straight. You’ll never meet the Buddha with such round shoulders.

2. There is no escaping karma. In a previous life, you never called, you never wrote, you never visited. And whose fault was that?

3. Wherever you go, there you are. Your luggage is another story.

4. To practice Zen and the art of Jewish motorcycle maintenance, do the following: get rid of the motorcycle. What were you thinking?

5. Be aware of your body. Be aware of your perceptions. Keep in mind that not every physical sensation is a symptom of a terminal illness.

6. If there is no self, whose arthritis is this?

7. Breathe in. Breathe out. Breathe in. Breathe out. Forget this and attaining Enlightenment will be the least of your problems.

8. The Tao has no expectations. The Tao demands nothing of others. The Tao does not speak. The Tao does not blame. The Tao does not take sides. The Tao is not Jewish.

9. Drink tea and nourish life. With the first sip, joy. With the second, satisfaction. With the third, Danish.

10. The Buddha taught that one should practice loving kindness to all sentient beings. Still, would it kill you to find a nice sentient being who happens to be Jewish?

11. Be patient and achieve all things. Be impatient and achieve all things faster.

12. To Find the Buddha, look within. Deep inside you are ten thousand flowers. Each flower blossoms ten thousand times. Each blossom has ten thousand petals. You might want to see a specialist.

13. Be here now. Be someplace else later. Is that so complicated?

14. Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkes.

Yusuphhai · Mar 4, 2019

juvenissun said:
The top level of Christianity is the theology which deals with sin. All other religions do not have a complete theology on that issue.

juvenissun said:
Zen echos a correspondent idea in Christianity, but with a much inferior quality.

Yeshua and All Apostles were quite Jewish. Some Iraq Christians are reading Aramaic Bible, Aramaic was used by Yeshua and his disciples mainly. Even when the Apostle Scriptures were written, their mind was working with Aramaic. Can I say Western Christianity is in a lower level than Jewish& Eastern Christianity?

juvenissun · Mar 4, 2019

Yusuphhai said:
Yeshua and All Apostles were quite Jewish. Some Iraq Christians are reading Aramaic Bible, Aramaic was used by Yeshua and his disciples mainly. Even when the Apostle Scriptures were written, their mind was working with Aramaic. Can I say Western Christianity is in a lower level than Jewish& Eastern Christianity?

Level of theology is content dependent, not origin dependent.
For example, in Christianity, The Salvation is the top level content, love, honest, kindness, and your Jewish Zen are lower level contents.

Yusuphhai · Mar 4, 2019

juvenissun said:
Level of theology is content dependent, not origin dependent.
For example, in Christianity, The Salvation is the top level content, love, honest, kindness, and your Jewish Zen are lower level contents.

zen does not want to be proud and go to a very high level, which is a dangerous way. it is only an angel. The theology supported by Greek Philosophy is in lower level than Apostle (Rabbi) Saul's teaching. Without his theology, Western theology of Christianity has no Hebrew root. Salvation is from Zion.

juvenissun · Mar 4, 2019

Yusuphhai said:
zen does not want to be proud and go to a very high level, which is a dangerous way. it is only an angel. The theology supported by Greek Philosophy is in lower level than Apostle (Rabbi) Saul's teaching. Without his theology, Western theology of Christianity has no Hebrew root. Salvation is from Zion.

I don't care where did the Salvation idea come from. The message and the fact are from God. Human is not able to figure out that part of theology.

TheOldWays · Mar 4, 2019

juvenissun said:
Zen does not need a scripture to work. But Zen MUST have scriptures to lay the foundation. Otherwise, it would be equal to Imagination. Zen echos a correspondent idea in Christianity, but with a much inferior quality.

the foundation of zen is practice. i have practiced zen quite a while and couldn't even tell you the name of any zen scriptures.

Noahide Buddhism and Hinduism

... and God saw that it was good.

... and God saw that it was good.

... and God saw that it was good.

... and God saw that it was good.

Messianic Arabic-Semitic Chinese

... and God saw that it was good.

... and God saw that it was good.

... and God saw that it was good.

Newbie

Well-Known Member

Newbie

Well-Known Member

Newbie

Messianic Arabic-Semitic Chinese

Messianic Arabic-Semitic Chinese

Messianic Arabic-Semitic Chinese

... and God saw that it was good.

Messianic Arabic-Semitic Chinese

... and God saw that it was good.

Candidate

Similar threads