Do you follow the New Testament?

fschmidt said:

Please define Donatist.

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you're judging Orthodoxy based on the external seeming worldliness and weakness of its people (and by default, her clergy).

fschmidt said:

Absolutely yes. Just as God judged Sodom and Gomorrah.

So what is the Orthodox view? Are Orthodox Christians fine with adopting the morals of Sodom and Gomorrah? Do they think it is wrong to judge the morals of Sodom and Gomorrah?

Modern Western culture is today's Sodom and Gomorrah. Are there any Orthodox Christians who have any interest in resisting this evil?

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for one, you are not God. for two, nothing specific you mentioned actually points to us following the morality of Sodom and Gomorrah.

fschmidt said:

But I do not expose myself to any entertainment produced by modern culture since 2000.

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This is what I've always wanted to ask the Anabaptists about their period-specific clothes and lifestyle. What happened in 2000? I agree that The Flintstones in Viva Rock Vegas did not live up to our high expectations, but still...

fschmidt said:

I read about the Donatists. Their main point seems to have been refusing to forgive priests for previous sins. I am not like that. I forgive those who repent. Repent of your association with evil modern culture and I will forgive you. Get rid of your television and electronic entertainment. Never send your children to public school. Uphold the traditions of your religion, whatever they are, as a means of setting yourself apart from evil modern culture.

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You can do all that and still be lost for eternity. All that leads to self-righteousness which is as filthy rags before God.

fschmidt said:

Thank you for asking. 2000 is just a nice round number, not a magic number. The Anabaptists would pick an earlier number. Modern culture is a decaying culture. It is degenerate, depraved, evil. This has happened to many cultures in history as they decayed. Such cultures should be avoided to avoid exposure to evil. The Old Testament asked the Israelites to avoid exposure to the Canaanites for this reason.

I would really encourage serious Christians to visit a conservative Mennonite church and discuss this issue with them. I wrote instructions on how to do this here:

Undepraved - The Mennonite Example

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Humans have been the same through all history. Its not a modern thing. In OT times they were terrible too. Look at all the prophets that were murdered!

The OT was and is, all about the NT. About Jesus etc. This is very very true.

To live in the OT ways and laws is to live without Jesus. It is denying Jesus.

Do you stone adulterers?

fschmidt said:

To begin with, why don't most women cover their head in church as required in 1 Corinthians 11:5-6? In the Greek Orthodox church that I went to, a very few did but the great majority didn't. Why not?

Why is divorce so common among Orthodox Christians when Matthew 5:32 only allows it for sexual immorality?

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St. Paul the Apostle required head coverings, but they are not something worth denying communion over.

I can't say why the divorce rate is what it is, but most priests in each jurisdiction will not marry a divorced person to someone else, at the very least not if that person was divorced for a reason other than adultery.

fschmidt said:

A sound religion would discourage television and modern electronic entertainment. It would discourage sending children to public school.

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I think you would enjoy reading the homilies of St. John Chrysostom. He railed against blasphemies in the (non-electronic!) theatres of his time and admonished the Christians who attended them. And you do make a good point on that. We could use another Chrysostom. That said, your date of 2000 is quite arbitrary. The very act of sitting and watching television or internet videos, unless they're of homilies, a Saint's life, or something similar, distracts from praying without ceasing and thinking on holy things. It doesn't matter if it's Charlie Chaplin or Black Mirror. These days, there's so much out there, no one has time to go through them all and say "this is okay to watch, this is not okay to watch..." If a person spends more time praying, they'll spend less time watching harmful things anyway. And in any case, many in our culture define their lives by their entertainment. If we approach it the right way, we can leverage it to spread our faith to others.

As for discouraging sending children to public school, I really don't see why. Yes, sometimes children are exposed to harmful ideas in public schools, but the best way to handle it isn't to hide them from it, but to a) get out in front of it with the truth when possible and b) talk with your kids every day about what they did that day and address anything troubling.

I think maybe you should look at Orthodoxy as an ideal of which we are all falling short, but many are trying their best and trying to pull others up with them.

P. S. you mentioned pews. As far as I'm aware, pews have never been forbidden. It's a "little t" tradition.

fschmidt said:

Thank you for asking. 2000 is just a nice round number, not a magic number. The Anabaptists would pick an earlier number. Modern culture is a decaying culture. It is degenerate, depraved, evil. This has happened to many cultures in history as they decayed. Such cultures should be avoided to avoid exposure to evil. The Old Testament asked the Israelites to avoid exposure to the Canaanites for this reason.

I would really encourage serious Christians to visit a conservative Mennonite church and discuss this issue with them. I wrote instructions on how to do this here:

Undepraved - The Mennonite Example

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For what it's worth, my husband and I attended a plain, Mennonite church for a year or two. They are, generally, wonderful people, and strong Christians. But dressing simply or conservatively does not necessarily guarantee Christian faith, purity of heart, salvation, or virtue. Those must come from within.

I would suggest, fschmidt, that you start with the text of the New Testament. Start with yourself. No one is perfect, and no community, Church, fellowship, or denomination will have perfect people in it. Everyone falls short, and hopefully, everyone is struggling upwards, too.

fschmidt said:

I got a warning for this thread. So let me make myself clear. I want nothing to do with modern Christians. I hate them. I will not respond to them. I am only interested in talking to Orthodox Christians and traditional Anabaptists. Other Christians, please just leave me alone.

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Please define the term 'modern Christian'

Since I'm alive now I would recognise myself as modern

fschmidt said:

I mean culturally modern. If it looks like modern culture or sounds like modern culture, then it is modern. Modern culture is pure evil.

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saying you hate an entire group of people is pretty modernist of you.

fschmidt said:

I got a warning for this thread. So let me make myself clear. I want nothing to do with modern Christians. I hate them. I will not respond to them. I am only interested in talking to Orthodox Christians and traditional Anabaptists. Other Christians, please just leave me alone.

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by the way, you, guest, don't dictate who does and doesn't respond on here.

fschmidt said:

I got a warning for this thread. So let me make myself clear. I want nothing to do with modern Christians. I hate them. I will not respond to them. I am only interested in talking to Orthodox Christians and traditional Anabaptists. Other Christians, please just leave me alone.

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1) Compared to Orthodoxy, those Anabaptist newcomers ARE a modern church (only go as far back as the 1500's? Youngsters!!)
2) You DO know that there is a great deal of difference, between Orthodoxy, and all those groups that were spawned by the Protestant Reformation (like.. Anabaptists)
3) You don't get to say who can post in a thread in the orthodox forum
4) Saying "I hate them" is not playing nicely with others, and richly DESERVES warnings

fschmidt said:

Not at all. The Old Testament condemns various groups.


Of course. They can respond to me and I can not respond to them.

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the Incarnation kinda happened since the OT. plus, admitting you aren't a Christian doesn't exactly put you in a place to comment on how to read the OT.

and yes, you can not respond to them. however, you don't need to broadcast that as if you are setting the rules of this forum.

I don't think you know what evil means or is. if you did, you would not list Islam as an ally against evil.

It is necessary to know the Lord’s commandments (10 commandments, Matthew 19:16-19, Romans 13:8-10, John 14:15-18 etc.), it is necessary to discern from them ( Matthew 10:16), it is risky for us to be judgmental in them ( Matthew 7:1-12).

We have to pause on externals some are superficial in today’s world ( laxity in dress may not reflect the heart of the person, for ex.). A well dressed person may spout sin while a person in a tank top may be the Christian.