Brain injuries and salvation

cloudyday2

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In many cases brain damage causes personality changes. I know a couple of people who suffered some brain injuries (apparently), and now they are both extremely self-centered and deceitful and uncaring. They were both Christians prior to the change. I don't know if they consider themselves Christians now. This is the sort of personality change that probably inspired belief in demon possession.

What this demonstrates to me is that freewill is an illusion. In light of that, it seems that many of the Christian ideas about salvation are either wrong or incredibly arbitrary.

Just wondering what others think.
 

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There is no one-size-fits-all for TBIs (even when it comes to criminal culpability on Earth).

If you don't have one, you have a clear choice between Salvation & Judgment.
 
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I'm confused as to why this proves that free will is an illusion. I have a personality disorder that makes me erratic at times. I have no real stable sense of self and yet I still am free and able to choose to follow Christ. These people you are describing still have the ability to change their behavior and choose to be "Christians" again.
 
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cloudyday2

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There is no one-size-fits-all for TBIs (even when it comes to criminal culpability on Earth).

If you don't have one, you have a clear choice between Salvation & Judgment.
Do I really have a choice? Doesn't the dramatic personality change and morality change after brain injuries in some people demonstrate that there is no sacred personality that transcends the brain? These people I know have been changed so dramatically that it is as if they have been possessed by an external personality.
 
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cloudyday2

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I'm confused as to why this proves that free will is an illusion. I have a personality disorder that makes me erratic at times. I have no real stable sense of self and yet I still am free and able to choose to follow Christ. These people you are describing still have the ability to change their behavior and choose to be "Christians" again.
If I touch you with a red-hot fireplace poker, do you "choose" to scream in pain? How many of our choices are really only reflexes?
 
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Kaon

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In many cases brain damage causes personality changes. I know a couple of people who suffered some brain injuries (apparently), and now they are both extremely self-centered and deceitful and uncaring. They were both Christians prior to the change. I don't know if they consider themselves Christians now. This is the sort of personality change that probably inspired belief in demon possession.

What this demonstrates to me is that freewill is an illusion. In light of that, it seems that many of the Christian ideas about salvation are either wrong or incredibly arbitrary.

Just wondering what others think.

It is neither. Most all of "us" are just ill-informed. That is due to the behavior of the leaders of the Church and Temple.

I do not know where the idea of free will under a Sovereign, Most High God came from. Do we have "free will" with our parents? Can any of us do anything we want (1), even without any consequences that could range from minor to catastrophic (2)? Only holy entities have real free will, and they choose to give 100% of their will over to the will of the Most High God. (That is one of the definition of being holy).

All fallen creatures have limited will - we have the latitude to react to the stimuli to which we are exposed. This is why it is such a big deal to have faith in Him, and trust Him. Like the Word of God said, worry won't add one "inch" to your stature. You are not the master of your own destiny. You are not in control of your life.

But there is some good news.

1) The fallen entities that chose to [try to] do their own will also do not have free will; they have limited will as well.

2) Because these entities were of a higher order of creation, and they sought to swindle us the first thing out of our creation (instead of teaching and guiding according to the Most High God), they will be judged for their actions.

3) A contingency plan was already in placed in anticipation of the once free will turned to selfish lusts the fallen shared. There is also already a book of Life from the foundations of the world; all of this running to and fro on all sides other than holy are for nothing. Everything has already happened... "Behold, He has told us everything."

The Word of God Himself humiliated His status as the right hand of the Most High God to a Son of Man, did everything He was supposed to according to the Most High God - even unto death. And, as a result He opened the door up for all of us sons of men (humans) to have salvation, and therefore live.


4) Because of this, whoever is written in the book of life - the people of the Most High God from the foundations of the earth - will be saved. That doesn't mean anything but what it says; you can still go through hell, but everyone who is His will come to be saved.


This war goes much deeper than the physical. Something may have impeded "normal" behavior to us, but there may be a plethora of spiritual things happening for which we are unaware. Therefore, judgement to a place (heaven or hell) is only for the Most High God.
 
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cloudyday2

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It is neither. Most all of "us" are just ill-informed. That is due to the behavior of the leaders of the Church and Temple.

I do not know where the idea of free will under a Sovereign, Most High God came from. Do we have "free will" with our parents? Can any of us do anything we want (1), even without any consequences that could range from minor to catastrophic (2)? Only holy entities have real free will, and they choose to give 100% of their will over to the will of the Most High God. (That is one of the definition of being holy).

All fallen creatures have limited will - we have the latitude to react to the stimuli to which we are exposed. This is why it is such a big deal to have faith in Him, and trust Him. Like the Word of God said, worry won't add one "inch" to your stature. You are not the master of your own destiny. You are not in control of your life.

But there is some good news.

1) The fallen entities that chose to [try to] do their own will also do not have free will; they have limited will as well.

2) Because these entities were of a higher order of creation, and they sought to swindle us the first thing out of our creation (instead of teaching and guiding according to the Most High God), they will be judged for their actions.

3) A contingency plan was already in placed in anticipation of the once free will turned to selfish lusts the fallen shared. There is also already a book of Life from the foundations of the world; all of this running to and fro on all sides other than holy are for nothing. Everything has already happened... "Behold, He has told us everything."

The Word of God Himself humiliated His status as the right hand of the Most High God to a Son of Man, did everything He was supposed to according to the Most High God - even unto death. And, as a result He opened the door up for all of us sons of men (humans) to have salvation, and therefore live.


4) Because of this, whoever is written in the book of life - the people of the Most High God from the foundations of the earth - will be saved. That doesn't mean anything but what it says; you can still go through hell, but everyone who is His will come to be saved.


This war goes much deeper than the physical. Something may have impeded "normal" behavior to us, but there may be a plethora of spiritual things happening for which we are unaware. Therefore, judgement to a place (heaven or hell) is only for the Most High God.

Thanks, that is an interesting theology to me, because it matches with what I have read about the Essene beliefs, and it matches with the modern scientific skepticism about freewill, and some features match a vision that I seemed to experience 20 years ago.

So do you have any links that give more information on this theology?
 
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Matthew 22:37 declares that we are of many parts when it tells us to love the Lord with all our heart, mind, and soul. I don't believe in standard dualism where the mind is identical with the soul, I think the mind is something that emerges from a body and a soul, and dissolves when either become separated. IMO, minds are what allow immaterial souls to appropriately interface with a material world. If you cut the brain in half you will get two minds, and two different answers to your question because each half of the brain is different, but there is only 1 soul which is animating the halves.

Paul says that our minds are in conflict in Romans 7:14-25 "For in my inner being I delight in God’s law. But I see another law at work in my body, warring against the law of my mind and holding me captive to the law of sin that dwells within me". It is the other half of this conflict that I think you see manifesting, but it does not mean the good has ceased because those things come from the soul. When we die our bodies will be destroyed in the earth, and new bodies will be given that do not contend with our souls as these do.
 
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Kaon

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Thanks, that is an interesting theology to me, because it matches with what I have read about the Essene beliefs, and it matches with the modern scientific skepticism about freewill, and some features match a vision that I seemed to experience 20 years ago.

So do you have any links that give more information on this theology?

All of this came from my Father. I haven't attended an edifice since I was eight.
 
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cloudyday2

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What does this have to do with free will? Screaming in pain is part of human nature, that you decide to touch that or not is free will.
What makes you think there is a fundamental difference? I can tell you the answer to that. You think you made a choice whenever your brain could not have predicted your own behavior based on the circumstances. That does NOT mean that a brilliant supercomputer could not have predicted your behavior based on the circumstances.
 
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Natsumi Lam

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Do I really have a choice? Doesn't the dramatic personality change and morality change after brain injuries in some people demonstrate that there is no sacred personality that transcends the brain? These people I know have been changed so dramatically that it is as if they have been possessed by an external personality.

My opinion as one who has Multiple Personality Disorder is that brain damage, whether the splitting of connections due to abuse or physical brain damage, may make it a challege to willfully choose Christ. To the best of my ability, my core person chose Christ. I think it is an option for most cases, possibly excluding such extensive damage that inhibits free will and cognition but God can reach anyone nomatter how damaged we are.
 
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Basil the Great

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I recall a poster many years ago in a different forum. One of his famous responses was, "God will judge them fairly". That is probably the best reply that we can give to this situation and many others for that matter as well.
 
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cloudyday2

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All of this came from my Father. I haven't attended an edifice since I was eight.
That is similar to my approach. For me, I can't trust what I read in books such as the Bible or hear from sermon without also having some confirmation from God. Of course ultimately we can't know anything for certain.
 
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Natsumi Lam

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That is similar to my approach. For me, I can't trust what I read in books such as the Bible or hear from sermon without also having some confirmation from God. Of course ultimately we can't know anything for certain.


I think sensitivity to the Holy Spirit and faith in the Word as a divine and infallible book is the key to uncertainty. It takes time, patience, prayer, will, wisdom and desire to develope sensitivity.
 
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What makes you think there is a fundamental difference? I can tell you the answer to that. You think you made a choice whenever your brain could not have predicted your own behavior based on the circumstances. That does NOT mean that a brilliant supercomputer could not have predicted your behavior based on the circumstances.
That's nonsense. If we would not have free will we would not be having this conversation.
 
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Kaon

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That is similar to my approach. For me, I can't trust what I read in books such as the Bible or hear from sermon without also having some confirmation from God. Of course ultimately we can't know anything for certain.

I think sensitivity to the Holy Spirit and faith in the Word as a divine and infallible book is the key to uncertainty. It takes time, patience, prayer, will, wisdom and desire to develope sensitivity.

Additionally, it takes research, experience, and judgment/discernment. These are all gifts the Most High God gives His people, even if you ask.
 
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Natsumi Lam

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Additionally, it takes research, experience, and judgment/discernment. These are all gifts the Most High God gives His people, even if you ask.

You are right. Experiences can be tricky though because we have to see it from the unseen rather than the seen.
 
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cloudyday2

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That's nonsense. If we would not have free will we would not be having this conversation.
Computers have conversations over networks all the time without having freewill. For example, Windows computers get automatic updates periodically.
 
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Ever since Jim was hit in the head by that golf ball he has never been the same. He spends all of his free time chatting with pigeons and mutters to himself about wanting to chill out with God and watch the movie "Good Burger" and how this desire makes him a superior person compared to others. Before his accident he was just a regular business manager who sometimes made a fool of himself at parties.

Susie hasn't been herself since she bonked her head while rock climbing. She now thinks scars are beautiful and cuts herself with a razor every chance she gets. A shame, she used to be a beautiful girl. She's now facing 5-10 years in prison for physically assaulting a Goofy mascot at Disney World. Before the accident she hated everything Disney with a passion, but now she takes down Disney characters she feels "wronged" Mickey Mouse in some way or fashion. Sometimes we ask God "why did you allow this?" But then we are reminded that he works in strange and mysterious ways.

Considering these two common examples, I do not think they discredit freewill. Just that their expression range of freewill now falls into different parameters.
 
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