I have a question about the Trinity.

Here is a challenge.

Yes God is 3 in 1. Triune being.

But show me where scripture says "3 persons".

Neostarwcc said:

Okay so, God is three distinct persons in one God correct? But how can that be? Isn't the worship of one God in three distinct persons worshipping three different Gods? Where in scripture has it been said that the Holy Spirit is God?

I mean in Genesis 1:26 God says "Let us create mankind in our image" now if God were not at least two in one why would he have said something like this? But yet how can God possibly be three distinct fully God persons and yet still be one God? It's just not possible and I might have to wait until I meet God to know the truth. But it does make me wonder... Can somebody please satisfactorily answer my question? Thanks.

Click to expand...

Spiritually, Man is described as having a Heart, Soul, and Mind--Matthew 22:37. Is Man 3 in one?

The "Trinity" is seen from start to finish in the scripture. We see God Holy Spirit working from the very start and Even more so, it's testified in the fact that we are made in Gods image and that Bible says that we are made in His image. Who is Him? It is the "us" or "Let us make man in our image. The brain, heart Organ, and physical body are the tangible matter that is the physical representation of the Nature of Gods Triune being. The Brain, Heart Organ, and Physical Body all are distinct in themselves, but are all ONE being. They all three work in tandem to make the living being function within it's physical world. All 3 are separate in functionality and have specific purpose, yet they are in one being, NOT SEPARATE, just as our very own human bodies testify. The Brain is where the cause of functionality for everything in the body works mechanically. It is where the entire body gathers it's information on how and when to function and what to do. This is a physical fingerprints of the Father. The Father is the complete source of the functionality of the Godhead. The Heart Organ is where the Life flow of Blood comes from. Jesus is the Lifeflow and the Blood, right? The Physical Body is the representation of the Holy Spirit. It holds all the components within the vessel to perform it's functions of which a God had set it forth to do. The physically Body is how we actually engage in performing our life task in order to accomplish the will of our lives. Gods Holy Spirit works in the very same way. The HS is the functionality of Gods will being put into action and coming to pass. Now, we look at the intangible representation of The Trinity being the truth of Gods nature in which we are made in the image of, The mind, the Heart, and The Soul(Spirit). The Mind is the source of our knowledge and wisdom, just as The Father, All True Knowledge and wisdom of Life is found in him. The Heart, is where Love, peace, joy, and all other emotional states of being is within us, just as Jesus is the center and exposition of Gods Love, peace, joy, rest, and all other states of being of the Triune Godhead is found. The Soul(Spirit) is the essence of the being of a person, just as the Holy Spirit is the essence of Gods Supernatural being. We are made in his image and this is only 2 count Em, Two of the fingerprints of Gods nature on his Creation. The triune nature of God is not some thing that was conspiratorially placed within a brick and mortar system to deceive people, it's people's lack of thinking and seeking to know the truth of God with all humility that leads to a rejection of The Trinity.

Neostarwcc said:

Okay so, God is three distinct persons in one God correct? But how can that be? Isn't the worship of one God in three distinct persons worshipping three different Gods? Where in scripture has it been said that the Holy Spirit is God?



I mean in Genesis 1:26 God says "Let us create mankind in our image" now if God were not at least two in one why would he have said something like this? But yet how can God possibly be three distinct fully God persons and yet still be one God? It's just not possible and I might have to wait until I meet God to know the truth. But it does make me wonder... Can somebody please satisfactorily answer my question? Thanks.

Click to expand...

This is my favorite of the trinitarian creeds.

THE SECOND HELVETIC CONFESSION

CHAPTER III

Of God, His Unity and Trinity

GOD IS ONE. We believe and teach that God is one in essence or nature, subsisting in himself, all sufficient in himself, invisible, incorporeal, immense, eternal, Creator of all things both visible and invisible, the greatest good, living, quickening and preserving all things, omnipotent and supremely wise, kind and merciful, just and true. Truly we detest many gods because it is expressly written: “The Lord your God is one Lord” (Deut.6:4). “I am the Lord your God. You shall have no other gods before me” (Ex. 20:2-3). “I am the Lord, and there is no other god besides me. Am I not the Lord, and there is no other God beside me? A righteous God and a Savior; there is none besides me” (Isa. 45:5, 21). “The Lord, the Lord, a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness” (Ex. 34:6).

GOD IS THREE. Notwithstanding we believe and teach that the same immense, one and indivisible God is in person inseparably and without confusion distinguished as Father, Son and Holy Spirit so, as the Father has begotten the Son from eternity, the Son is begotten by an ineffable generation, and the holy Spirit truly proceeds from them both, and the same from eternity and is to be worshipped with both.

Thus there are not three gods, but three persons, cosubstantial, coeternal, and coequal; distinct with respect to hypostases, and with respect to order, the one preceding the other yet without any inequality. For according to the nature or essence they are so joined together that they are one God, and the divine nature is common to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

For Scripture has delivered to us a manifest distinction of persons, the angel saying, among other things, to the Blessed Virgin, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy, the Son of God” (Luke 1:35).

And also in the baptism of Christ a voice is heard from heaven concerning Christ, saying, “This is my beloved Son” (Mat. 3:17). The Holy Spirit also appeared in the form of a dove (John 1:32).

And when the Lord himself commanded the apostles to baptize, he commanded them to baptize “in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit” (Matt. 28:19).

Elsewhere in the Gospel he said: “The Father will send the Holy Spirit in my name” (John 14:26), and again he said: “When the Counselor comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness to me,” etc. (John 15:26).

In short, we receive the Apostles’ Creed because it delivers to us the true faith.

HERESIES. Therefore we condemn the Jews and Mohammedans, and all those who blaspheme that sacred and adorable Trinity. We also condemn all heresies and heretics who teach that the Son and Holy Spirit are God in name only, and also that there is something created and subservient, or subordinate to another in the Trinity, and that there is something unequal in it, a greater or a less, something corporeal or corporeally conceived, something different with respect to character or will, something mixed or solitary, as if the Son and Holy Spirit were the affections and properties of one God the Father, as the Monarchians, Novatians, Praxeas, Patripassians, Sabellius, Paul of Samosata, Aetius, Macedonius, Anthropomorphites, Arius, and such like, have thought.



Various authors. THE SECOND HELVETIC CONFESSION Trinity.

Neostarwcc said:

Okay so, God is three distinct persons in one God correct? But how can that be? Isn't the worship of one God in three distinct persons worshipping three different Gods? Where in scripture has it been said that the Holy Spirit is God?

I mean in Genesis 1:26 God says "Let us create mankind in our image" now if God were not at least two in one why would he have said something like this? But yet how can God possibly be three distinct fully God persons and yet still be one God? It's just not possible and I might have to wait until I meet God to know the truth. But it does make me wonder... Can somebody please satisfactorily answer my question? Thanks.

Click to expand...

It is by no means comprehended how God can be a Trinity yet we see it defined in Scripture and we also see God referring to Himself as One. We take God's Word as true and fully trustworthy, an act of faith. Here is a passage spelling out the teaching of the Trinity quite clearly, but this truth can be found by putting together a number of passages as well...
Isaiah 9:6-7:
For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
7 Of the greatness of his government and peace
there will be no end.
He will reign on David’s throne
and over his kingdom,
establishing and upholding it
with justice and righteousness
from that time on and forever.
The zeal of the Lord Almighty
will accomplish this.

The Son is of course Jesus (this is a prophesy), Wonderful Counselor (Holy Spirit...He is referred to as Counselor by Jesus in the gospel of John), Mighty God (self explanatory), Everlasting Father (again self explanatory)...goes on to call Jesus the Prince of Peace...this is because He established peace between God and man by conquering sin and the grave and rose again as a sacrifice for our sins.

Yet One God...
Deuteronomy 6:4-5:
Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. 5 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.

Remember that when you do what vs 5 instructs you take Him by faith, you take Him fully at His Word...your act of faith.

Neostarwcc said:

Okay so, God is three distinct persons in one God correct? But how can that be? Isn't the worship of one God in three distinct persons worshipping three different Gods? Where in scripture has it been said that the Holy Spirit is God?

I mean in Genesis 1:26 God says "Let us create mankind in our image" now if God were not at least two in one why would he have said something like this? But yet how can God possibly be three distinct fully God persons and yet still be one God? It's just not possible and I might have to wait until I meet God to know the truth. But it does make me wonder... Can somebody please satisfactorily answer my question? Thanks.

Click to expand...

The problem I believe you are having is that by default you put "God" for one person without knowing it, then try to figure out how he can be three. As if two subsist from one, even though you aren't aware of it.

"God" refers to the essence of being when discussing theology proper, we refer to the Godhead. When "God" is discussed in the context with Jesus, then it immediately refers to the first person to distinguish him from the Son "of God."

So, when we speak of God in three distinct, yet co-eternal persons, we are essentially saying that there are three that have the same divine nature, undivided, in unity with each other, though they are distinct in their personal relations and properties with each other. The Father beget the Son, none of the other members did this. The Spirit proceeds from one or both, none of the other members did this. These are examples. The Son became incarnate, rather than the other members of the Godhead.

The Father is everything God is; the Son is everything God is; the Spirit is everything God is. They have the same essence, glory, and power. Yet, they are distinct persons who truly do commune with each other. If the Father wills this, the Son (being truly God) wills the same, as well as the Spirit. They are in unity by essence. If the Father creates from his divine essence, then the Son participates through that unity, despite personally distinguishing from him in person. When the Father raised Christ, the Son and Spirit participated in the unity of the divine essence so that they too are credited with the resurrection.

Does this help? I recommend some of the early creeds that defended the nature of God's plurality.

JohnB445 said:

Here is a challenge.

Yes God is 3 in 1. Triune being.

But show me where scripture says "3 persons".

Click to expand...

So what? The Bible never called the whole New Testament Scriptures either.

tampasteve said:

Probably not. The reality is that scripture points to the Trinity, and there are many passages that imply it...but it is not explicit and any attempt to really understand it falls short into one heresy or another. Truly comprehending it is beyond our abilities and beyond our language.

This is not a great answer, and it does not really help your search, but I think that most Christians that try to understand the theology have the same question - in the end it is a mystery.

Click to expand...

As we examine the evolution of the Hebrew/Jewish perception of God in the Old Testament, what becomes obvious was that in the earliest layers El was merely just another tribal god. It was however the ONLY god that was permitted to the Hebrew people. This is known as henotheism. As time went by this exclusive tribal deity evolved into the ONLY deity. This of course is monotheism. Viewed in this manner Elohim as plural refers to the pantheon of middle-eastern gods of whom El was regarded as the chief god.

For many years I have struggled to understand the doctrine of the trinity. To say it is a mystery that we are not expected to comprehend simply doesn't cut it for me. Some time ago I discovered that in the original formulation of the trinity, the word in Greek which we traditionally have interpreted to mean "persons", as in "three persons in one God" is actually the same word used to designate the mask worn by actors in Greco-Roman theater. We cannot call this a "person" but we can certainly call it a "persona". This insight has put a totally new spin on the entire concept for me. We finite creatures cannot possibly hope to describe our transcendent God, but we can speak of the modes or roles or personae that assist our understanding. God as creator/father, God as spirit/sustainer, and the glimpse of God we obtain in the life and teaching of Jesus. In other words, trinity is not a description of God but is, rather, a description of the human experience of God in the language of fourth century Greek speaking Christianity.

Neostarwcc said:

Okay so, God is three distinct persons in one God correct? But how can that be? Isn't the worship of one God in three distinct persons worshipping three different Gods? Where in scripture has it been said that the Holy Spirit is God?

I mean in Genesis 1:26 God says "Let us create mankind in our image" now if God were not at least two in one why would he have said something like this? But yet how can God possibly be three distinct fully God persons and yet still be one God? It's just not possible and I might have to wait until I meet God to know the truth. But it does make me wonder... Can somebody please satisfactorily answer my question? Thanks.

Click to expand...

This is probably not the best answer, but, when the Lord was baptised is probably the best example.

The second, or, third ecumenical council defined the Holy Spirits relationship to the Father.

The creed of Saint Athanasious is a good read on this topic as well.

In the end, I think it's something we take on faith.

JackRT said:

As we examine the evolution of the Hebrew/Jewish perception of God in the Old Testament, what becomes obvious was that in the earliest layers El was merely just another tribal god. It was however the ONLY god that was permitted to the Hebrew people. This is known as henotheism. As time went by this exclusive tribal deity evolved into the ONLY deity. This of course is monotheism. Viewed in this manner Elohim as plural refers to the pantheon of middle-eastern gods of whom El was regarded as the chief god.

For many years I have struggled to understand the doctrine of the trinity. To say it is a mystery that we are not expected to comprehend simply doesn't cut it for me. Some time ago I discovered that in the original formulation of the trinity, the word in Greek which we traditionally have interpreted to mean "persons", as in "three persons in one God" is actually the same word used to designate the mask worn by actors in Greco-Roman theater. We cannot call this a "person" but we can certainly call it a "persona". This insight has put a totally new spin on the entire concept for me. We finite creatures cannot possibly hope to describe our transcendent God, but we can speak of the modes or roles or personae that assist our understanding. God as creator/father, God as spirit/sustainer, and the glimpse of God we obtain in the life and teaching of Jesus. In other words, trinity is not a description of God but is, rather, a description of the human experience of God in the language of fourth century Greek speaking Christianity.

Click to expand...

And you thinn your post-modern understanding is the correct one?

David Cabrera said:

And you thinn your post-modern understanding is the correct one?

Click to expand...

It is the only understanding that has made the least bit of sense to me. But it is not "post-modern" and is actually quite ancient --- it is known as the modalism heresy.

Little man when thinking regarding the trinity think not so much of yourself and what you think is right or could be right or wrong.

Believe God have faith finish the good race.

There's so much here that we do not understand or know.

M-Bob

The way i look at is we are a three part man. Body, soul and spirit; similarly, the body is Christ, the soul or active process is the Holy Spirit and the spirit is the eternal God.

It certainly is not possible for us, but that certainly doesn't mean it is impossible for God. From our perspective it is impossible to create something from nothing, let alone an entire universe. Yet God had no difficulty doing so.

throughfireytrial said:

It is by no means comprehended how God can be a Trinity yet we see it defined in Scripture and we also see God referring to Himself as One. We take God's Word as true and fully trustworthy, an act of faith. Here is a passage spelling out the teaching of the Trinity quite clearly, but this truth can be found by putting together a number of passages as well...
Isaiah 9:6-7:
For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
7 Of the greatness of his government and peace
there will be no end.
He will reign on David’s throne
and over his kingdom,
establishing and upholding it
with justice and righteousness
from that time on and forever.
The zeal of the Lord Almighty
will accomplish this.

The Son is of course Jesus (this is a prophesy), Wonderful Counselor (Holy Spirit...He is referred to as Counselor by Jesus in the gospel of John), Mighty God (self explanatory), Everlasting Father (again self explanatory)...goes on to call Jesus the Prince of Peace...this is because He established peace between God and man by conquering sin and the grave and rose again as a sacrifice for our sins.

Yet One God...
Deuteronomy 6:4-5:
Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. 5 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.

Remember that when you do what vs 5 instructs you take Him by faith, you take Him fully at His Word...your act of faith.

Click to expand...

You are quite wrong to assume that the Holy Trinity is anywhere taught in the passage from Isaiah 9. The whole Prophecy is about The Child, Who is the Lord Jesus Christ. Note, Isaiah says, "He will be called", which is Jesus Christ. Wonderful Counselor, here refers to Jesus, Who, like the Holy Spirit is also called Counselor in 1 John 2:1, where the same Greek word is translated Advocate. Neither Mighty God, or Everlasting Father (or better, as the Hebrew has it, "Father of Eternity"), here are used for God the Father, because all of the Titles/Names, are ONLY used for Jesus Christ.

JohnB445 said:

Here is a challenge.

Yes God is 3 in 1. Triune being.

But show me where scripture says "3 persons".

Click to expand...

Neither is the term Trinity, or Triune Being found in Scripture!

You are wrongly applying our understanding of "person", as a "separate human being", to the Godhead. The term "Person" for the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, is the best to describe the Being of God, and the "distinctions", though not "separation", of Them. Webster's 1913 English dictionary defines "person", as ,
“A living, self-conscious being, as distinct from an animal or a thing; a moral agent”, which is exactly what we mean by "Person" for the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

The first verse of the Holy Bible says, "in the beginning ʼĕlôhîym...". Here we have the Hebrew word "ʼĕlôhîym", which is masculine in gender, and plural in number, GOD. Some have argued that the plural does not refer to "plurality of Persons", but to "majesty", as a king or queen would say, "we". This, however is not the case with "ʼĕlôhîym", when used for the One True God of the Holy Bible. In this same chapter in Genesis, we read, "And ʼĕlôhîym said, Let US make man in our image, after OUR likeness" (verse 26). Again, those opposed to the Holy Trinity, argue that here ʼĕlôhîym is speaking to the angels in heaven, or some other heavenly beings. This is nothing but speculation, because no where in the entire Bible, are we told that human beings are created in the "image" of angels, but we are told, that we are created in the Image of God!

In Ecclesiastes 12:1, we read, "Remember now thy Creator in the days of thy youth". Here the Hebrew word for "Creator", is "bârâʼ", which is plural in number, literally, "Creators"! Likewise, in Job 35:10; and Isaiah 54:5, we have "Your Maker", which again in the Hebrew, "ʻâsâh", is in the plural, "Makers". In Passages like Hebrews 2:10, we read of God the Father as Creator of the universe. Then, in places like Hebrews 1:10:13, we read of God the Father addressing Jesus Christ, and ascribing direct Creation to Him, not as merely the "mediator", as some wrongly assume, but as the actual Creator. In fact, in this passage in Hebrews, the Father is applying Psalm 102:25-27, which is addressed to Yahweh as The Creator, directly to the Lord Jesus Christ, thereby declaring that He is Almighty God. The same Hebrew word, "ʻâsâh", in its singular form, is used for the Holy Spirit in Job 33:4, "The Spirit of God has made [âsâh] me". Here we have Creation ascribed to God the Holy Spirit.

In Isaiah 48:16, we have the clearest reference in the Old Testament, to the Holy Trinity. Here the Speaker is none other than the Lord Jesus Christ, Who Speaks as Yahweh. Here also, those who oppose the Doctrine of the Holy Trinity, have sought to remove the Holy Trinity from this passage, by arguing that the speaker here is the Prophet Isaiah, or someone else. However, this is shown to be quite wrong from the passage itself. In verse 12, the Speaker says, "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last"; and the following verse, "Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.". Which is impossible for any human being! So, here in 48:16, we have Yahweh as the Speaker, Jesus Christ, Who says, "and now the Lord (Yahweh) has sent Me and His Spirit". Here both Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are the two "objects" in the sentence. Bible versions like the King James, render the Hebrew incorrectly, "and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.", making the Lord God and Holy Spirit as two subjects! The order of words in the Hebrew, Greek and Latin, all read: "and now the Lord (Yahweh) has sent Me and His Spirit". As do the following Jewish publications:

“And now the Lord God has sent me, and his Spirit” (The Holy Scriptures According to the Masoretic Text, A New Translation. The Jewish Publication Society of America. 5677-1917)

“And now, the Lord Eternal hath sent me, and his Spirit” (Isaac Leeser, The Twenty-Four Books of the Holy Scriptures: Carefully Translated According to the Massoretic Text)

“ and now, the Lord God has sent me, and His spirit.” (The Complete Jewish Bible, with Rashi Commentary, chabad.org)

“I have not spoken in secret from beginning from the time that it was, there am I : and now the Lord Eternal hath sent me, and his spirit.” (Dr A Benisch; Jewish School and Family Bible, Vol. III)

Also in the Dead Sea Scrolls:

“Draw near to me, and hear this: from the beginning I have not spoken in secret; at the time it came to be, I was there. And now the Lord God has sent me and his spirit.” (Martin Abegg Jr., Peter Flint and Eugene Ulrich. The Dead Sea Scrolls Bible)

In the New Testament we read of the Father sending Jesus Christ; “and the Father Himself, Who has sent Me” (John 5:37, and elsewhere); and the Holy Spirit, "“But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, Whom the Father will send in My Name” (John 14:26, and elsewhere). However, no where do we read of the Holy Spirit "sending" Jesus Christ!

In Matthew 28:19, we have a very clear reference to the Holy Trinity;

"And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptise them into the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit".

The Greek here is of great importance. The sentence, "ὸ ὄνομα τοῦ πατρὸς καὶ τοῦ υἱοῦ καὶ τοῦ ἁγίου πνεύματος" (literally, "The Name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit), shows, by the use of the definite artice in the Greek, "τοῦ", which is prefixed to each noun (Father, Son, Spirit), shows that They are "distinct" from each other, though not "separate". Here we have Three "Persons", but One Name, where the Greek "ὸ ὄνομα", in in the singular number. The reference to "ὸ ὄνομα" here is no doubt to that which Yahweh gave Moses at the Burning Bush, "And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD [Yahweh] God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is My Name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations." (Exodus 3:14-15). The Name "Yahweh", is the same root meaning of "I am", meaning "the eternal, self-existing". It is this Name, "Yahweh", which the Father, Son and Holy Spirit have as One.

Let no one suppose, that because here we have the "order" of Persons, as Father, Son and Holy Spirit, that somehow this shows their "importance", or "priority". This is not so. In 2 Corinthians 13:14, the "order" is , "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen"; and Ephesians 4:4-6, it is, "There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."

Soli Deo Gloria!

Matthew 28:19- "Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

They have the same name, because they are God Almighty... Also says in the name of the Lord sometimes... But they are Jehovah/Yahweh/Elohim... But only them... The whole number "three" is sometimes a profound statement in itself sometimes, relationally most especially... also mathematically, geometrically, ect...

God Bless!

JohnB445 said:

Here is a challenge.

Yes God is 3 in 1. Triune being.

But show me where scripture says "3 persons".

Click to expand...

We play multiple roles sometimes, but God not only plays them, but actually "is them all"... anyone of the three are... all others are more limited... so how would they relate to each other, each being all roles equally, or each equally capable of all roles equally..?

God Bless!