United Methodists Tighten Ban on Same-Sex Marriage and Gay Clergy

Archivist said:

I did not say that homosexuality is a sin of which someone cannot repent. I was referencing what others have said such as post #44.

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That post in particular is talking about people in the pulpit continuing to live in a homosexuality lifestyle and affirming it as non-sinful and performing homosexual marriages. Anyone who promotes a sin is not fit for ministry. The examples you give of someone who is divorced or someone who is overweight are not in sin in all cases. There are exceptions allowed for divorce, and I'm not sure what sin you were referring to with the example of an overweight person. If you were referring to gluttony, being fat doesn't necessarily mean one is a glutton. There are no scriptural exceptions for living a gay lifestyle. A person who has struggled with homosexual attraction can be in ministry of they are not living in it.

redleghunter said:

This is what I said:

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Yes, I know what you said. I referenced your post, so yes I did read it before referencing it.

Sparagmos said:

Thanks for acknowledging it. I understand that people on this thread believe that the Bible condemns homosexuality and it is a sin. But I’m not sure how repeating that over and over is changing anyone’s mind or addressed the fact that most Americans simply don’t have a problem with it.

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I'm sorry but what the masses think doesn't matter before a mighty eternal God who defines sin and condemns sin. So you say people don't care about that. Would you say that you don't care about that as well, that you will side with sin and not God ?

MournfulWatcher said:

That post in particular is talking about people in the pulpit continuing to live in a homosexuality lifestyle and affirming it as non-sinful and performing homosexual marriages. Anyone who promotes a sin is not fit for ministry.

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Yes, I'm aware of what it said.

The examples you give of someone who is divorced or someone who is overweight are not in sin in all cases. There are exceptions allowed for divorce, and I'm not sure what sin you were referring to with the example of an overweight person. If you were referring to gluttony, being fat doesn't necessarily mean one is a glutton. There are no scriptural exceptions for living a gay lifestyle. A person who has struggled with homosexual attraction can be in ministry of they are not living in it.

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It sin't "sin in all cases." Does the UMC differentiate? Do they require that an overweight person be tested to show that his/her weight gain isn't due to gluttony. Do they examine the reasons for divorce before ordaining the divorcee?Otherwise it seems that you are saying that it is alright for some sinners to be a pastor but not others depending on the sin.

I don't know what the UMC does so I'm asking.

Dave G. said:

I'm sorry but what the masses think doesn't matter before a mighty eternal God who defines sin and condemns sin. So you say people don't care about that. Would you say that you don't care about that as well, that you will side with sin and not God ?

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I don’t believe for a second that god considers homosexuality a sin. And if you don’t care what the masses think, why are you commenting repeatedly about how they are wrong? Why not just leave it alone?

redleghunter said:

What is defined as "full LGBT rights in the church?"

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Probably the right to be openly advocating LGBT practices and relationships as one equal to the heteronormative counterparts within the church.

Sparagmos said:

I don’t believe for a second that god considers homosexuality a sin. And if you don’t care what the masses think, why are you commenting repeatedly about how they are wrong? Why not just leave it alone?

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How do you rectify then, that in scripture God says it is sin, not to do it and those who do will not be found in heaven ? You just wing it with your own imagination ?

I said what masses think in sin doesn't matter before God, it doesn't change His ways in other words. Don't confuse that with no impact on earth!

I heard a lot of United Methodist pastors and elders speaking out against homosexuality. This to me is not new, since the UMC is a very broad, varied denomination. Though it's a mainline Protestant Church, I am surprised that the church has not totally succumbed to accepting liberal ideology, like homosexuality and abortion, like the United Church of Christ and the Episcopalian Church (and the rest of the Anglican church) does. Nevertheless, there are teachers like Matt Slick who recommends that Bible believing Christians avoid the United Methodist denomination because they are open to abortion and accept woman pastors.

SaintCody777 said:

I heard a lot of United Methodist pastors and elders speaking out against homosexuality. This to me is not new, since the UMC is a very broad, varied denomination. Though it's a mainline Protestant Church, I am surprised that the church has not totally succumbed to accepting liberal ideology, like homosexuality and abortion, like the United Church of Christ and the Episcopalian Church (and the rest of the Anglican church) does. Nevertheless, there are teachers like Matt Slick who recommends that Bible believing Christians avoid the United Methodist denomination because they are open to abortion and accept woman pastors.

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Slightly off topic, but in fairness to the Anglicans on CF: The majority of the churches in the Anglican Communion and in the Continuing Anglican movement do not accept partnered gay clergy or same-sex marriage. The Episcopal Church is almost alone among Anglican churches in the position we have taken on LGBT issues.

Sparagmos said:

So, again, where do you predict those 74% of millennials are going to go to church?

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The thing that draws people to church, truth (in all kinds of subjects,) and God are not in a church that embraces sodomy. Therefore, for the most part. Millennials will end up going to churches that do not embrace sodomy. Or they will not go to church at all. There is simply no passed or present reality that liberal or leftist churches draw lots of people. When you hear in stats that churches are losing members. You will find it’s refering to mainline denominations that are forsaking Biblical teaching. But just the opposite is happening to churches that embrace Biblical teachings. Which would include the rejection of sodomy as compatible with Biblically based Christianity.

redleghunter said:

Orthodoxjay1 said: ↑
That maybe true, yet the fact is that as western Churches decline, it is the African Churches that are booming in numbers, and also holding the line on Traditional marriage, opposition to Ordination of Gay Marriage, and so fourth.

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As in they are following the morals set forth by God in His Word and practiced by the Church since Pentecost. I imagine Western Protestant denominations did not see that coming...those they evangelized rebuking them generations later.

Orthodoxjay1 said: ↑
It will be hard for the white liberal Christians to preach to the African Christians to tell them they are "bigots, hateful" , it would be neo-colonalism in disguise to impose there will on Traditionalist Africans

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The white liberals will just demographic them to death by grouping the African Christians into militia groups which need to be put on the worldwide terrorist watch list. It's already happening if you read some posts over the years on the "other side" of CF.

Orthodoxjay1 said: ↑
if that fails the Progressive movement will use the State Department, and foreign aid (after President Trump finishes his term) to push LGBT imperialism on the African faithful.

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Already happening...It's called the UN.

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I never thought of the possibility of government suppression of being anti-homosexual. One thing that Wesley probably believed in, was to love the sinner, but to hate the sin. It’s hard for the modern generation to even think of homosexuality as a sin, let alone possible “possession” in some cases. What if the churches in thinking that they’re being humanitarian, are really allowing widespread infiltration of sexual occultism?

“And substantial majorities of Millennials who don’t go to church say they see Christians as judgmental (87%), hypocritical (85%), anti-homosexual (91%) and insensitive to others (70%).”
https://www.barna.com/research/what-millennials-want-when-they-visit-church/

My church teaches that homosexuality is not a sin and I believe that. I understand it is not a popular view on CF and, unfortunately, CF rules prevent me from defending my position.

Be that as it may, as you can see above, most un-churched millennials see Christians as judgmental, hypocritical, anti-homosexual, and insensitive. Having been the target of attacks like this in my personal life by members of conservative churches, I can see where they are coming from.