Should we listen or learn from Christians who are millionaires?

Should we take advice from Christians who are millionaires?


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RaymondG

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I do; he not only believes as he does, he's out denouncing others...on false grounds and standards.
If we do not wish to be persecuted for righteousness sake, we are on the wrong path. Once we are able to take these things without being spiritually moved..........get ready for higher heights in the Lord.

Im not saying that we shouldnt speak what is right....just that we cannot be affected by those who say we are against God and the Word......for the Master was accused of the same..

I say, lets throw the seeds, and let God determine the ground it lands on.
 
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mmksparbud

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You cannot judge how you are to live your faith for Jesus based solely on your experience but you have to take it by faith in trusting in what God's Word says. The Bible comes first and not your life experiences. I am not saying for believers to give up their house (if a Christian owns one). The disciple Jason owned his own home. Even Zacchaeus (who was a rich tax collector) gave only half of his goods to the poor and not all of his goods (and Jesus accepted that). Jesus actually said salvation had come to his house that day. So Zacchaeus's giving is related to salvation or eternal life. If it was not then Jesus would not say salvation came to His house by his giving of half of his goods to the poor, but he would have said that salvation was His when He merely believed in Him as His Savior. So forsaking one's material possessions is a part of the Kingdom. Acquiring material possessions and amassing wealth is actually contrary to the Kingdom. God wants us to give more of our resources and time to others in love towards others. If we are holding on to millions while others in our area are suffering and need that money, we are showing we do not love those around us. If our resources could go to help our neighbor and yet we are holding on waaay more than what we need we simply do not care about them. This is what the New Covenant way is all about. Sure, God may have allowed for men of God to be rich in the Old Covenant, but we are not in that covenant anymore.

Forsaking the things of this world is a part of the Kingdom:
Everyone who has forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life (‭‭Matthew‬ ‭19:29‬) (Mark 10:29-30 says, “There is no man that has left house, or brothers, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's, But he shall receive a hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brothers, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.”) (Luke 14:33 says, “Whosoever he be of you that forsakes not all that he has, he cannot be my disciple.”) (Similar: Matthew 16:24, Mark 8:34, and Luke 9:23) (Luke 18:29-30 says, “No man who has left home or wife or brothers or sisters or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God will fail to receive many times as much in this age, and in the age to come eternal life.” - NIV).

He that takes not his cross, and follows after me, is not worthy of me (Matthew 10:38)

(Matthew 16:24 says, “If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.”) (Also see: Mark 8:34, and Luke 9:23) (Luke 14:27 says, “And whosoever does not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.”) (Similar: Matthew‬ ‭19:29‬, Mark 10:29-30, and Luke 14:33) (John 12:26 says, “If any man serve me, let him follow me;”).

He that finds his life shall lose it (Matthew 10:39) (“Whosoever will save his life shall lose it” - Matthew 16:25) (John 12:25 says “He that loveth his life shall lose it;”).

He that loses his life for my sake shall find it (Matthew 10:39) (“whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's,” - Mark 8:35) (Luke 9:24 says the same thing as Matthew 16:25) (John 12:25 says, “He that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.”)

Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth forever." (1 John 2:15-17).

Being rich is condemned in the New Testament:
New Testament Verses Condemning A Person in Being Rich:

“And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.” (Mark 4:19).

“Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself. But godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out. And having food and raiment let us be therewith content. But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition. For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness. Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.” (1 Timothy 6:5-12).

“Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;” (1 Timothy 3:3).

“No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.” (Matthew 6:24).

“And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.” (Luke 8:14).

“Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions. Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.” (Matthew 19:21-24).

“And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry. But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided? So is he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.” (Luke 12:19-21).

“Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.” (Luke 12:33-34).

“And he said unto them, Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth” (Luke 12:15).

“If then God so clothe the grass, which is to day in the field, and to morrow is cast into the oven; how much more will he clothe you, O ye of little faith? And seek not ye what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink, neither be ye of doubtful mind. For all these things do the nations of the world seek after: and your Father knoweth that ye have need of these things. But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you.” (Luke 12:28-31).

“And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God (Luke 6:20).

“But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation” (Luke 6:24).

“So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.” (Luke 14:33).

“And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations.” (Luke 16:9).

“Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.” (Hebrews 13:5).

“Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you. Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are moth eaten. Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days. Behold, the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of sabaoth. Ye have lived in pleasure on the earth, and been wanton; ye have nourished your hearts, as in a day of slaughter. Ye have condemned and killed the just; and he doth not resist you.” (James 5:1-6).

“Now ye are full, now ye are rich, ye have reigned as kings without us: and I would to God ye did reign, that we also might reign with you” (1 Corinthians 4:8).

“Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal” (Matthew 6:19).

“In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works” (1 Timothy 2:9-10).

“And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all. Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.” (Acts of the Apostles 4:32-35).

“And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much. And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing. And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury: For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.” (Mark 12:41-44).

Well--Glory be!! Christ doesn't have to judge anyone--you can do it all for Him--just line up all the rich people and there you go--most of the job is done! Tell us now---are you proud of your poverty?? Must be wonderful to be like the Pharisee that was so glad he was not like the publican! Stand aside folks and give him room! He is obviously saved beyond a doubt for he is poor! It is not the condition of your heart it is the condition of your bank account!
Don't bother trying to be a good steward! Just sit back and do nothing and rejoice in your laziness for you can slide right into heaven! Forget what Jesus said about the talents--the bible was mistranslated---it was the lazy servant who did nothing with all the money given him that was praised and rewarded!!
 
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Aldebaran

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If we do not wish to be persecuted for righteousness sake, we are on the wrong path. Once we are able to take these things without being spiritually moved..........get ready for higher heights in the Lord.

Im not saying that we shouldnt speak what is right....just that we cannot be affected by those who say we are against God and the Word......for the Master was accused of the same..

I say, lets throw the seeds, and let God determine the ground it lands on.

Between Christians, we need to keep each other in check when we see brothers teaching falsehood. Misquoting Jesus as saying something he clearly didn't say and telling others that they can't be saved unless they give away all their money isn't much different that saying they can't be saved unless they're circumsized. Paul had a problem with people doing things like that.
 
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throughfiierytrial

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You cannot judge how you are to live your faith for Jesus based solely on your experience but you have to take it by faith in trusting in what God's Word says. The Bible comes first and not your life experiences. I am not saying for believers to give up their house (if a Christian owns one). The disciple Jason owned his own home. Even Zacchaeus (who was a rich tax collector) gave only half of his goods to the poor and not all of his goods (and Jesus accepted that). Jesus actually said salvation had come to his house that day. So Zacchaeus's giving is related to salvation or eternal life. If it was not then Jesus would not say salvation came to His house by his giving of half of his goods to the poor, but he would have said that salvation was His when He merely believed in Him as His Savior. So forsaking one's material possessions is a part of the Kingdom. Acquiring material possessions and amassing wealth is actually contrary to the Kingdom. God wants us to give more of our resources and time to others in love towards others. If we are holding on to millions while others in our area are suffering and need that money, we are showing we do not love those around us. If our resources could go to help our neighbor and yet we are holding on waaay more than what we need we simply do not care about them. This is what the New Covenant way is all about. Sure, God may have allowed for men of God to be rich in the Old Covenant, but we are not in that covenant anymore.

Forsaking the things of this world is a part of the Kingdom:
Everyone who has forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life (‭‭Matthew‬ ‭19:29‬) (Mark 10:29-30 says, “There is no man that has left house, or brothers, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's, But he shall receive a hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brothers, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.”) (Luke 14:33 says, “Whosoever he be of you that forsakes not all that he has, he cannot be my disciple.”) (Similar: Matthew 16:24, Mark 8:34, and Luke 9:23) (Luke 18:29-30 says, “No man who has left home or wife or brothers or sisters or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God will fail to receive many times as much in this age, and in the age to come eternal life.” - NIV).

He that takes not his cross, and follows after me, is not worthy of me (Matthew 10:38)

(Matthew 16:24 says, “If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.”) (Also see: Mark 8:34, and Luke 9:23) (Luke 14:27 says, “And whosoever does not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.”) (Similar: Matthew‬ ‭19:29‬, Mark 10:29-30, and Luke 14:33) (John 12:26 says, “If any man serve me, let him follow me;”).

He that finds his life shall lose it (Matthew 10:39) (“Whosoever will save his life shall lose it” - Matthew 16:25) (John 12:25 says “He that loveth his life shall lose it;”).

He that loses his life for my sake shall find it (Matthew 10:39) (“whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's,” - Mark 8:35) (Luke 9:24 says the same thing as Matthew 16:25) (John 12:25 says, “He that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.”)

Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth forever." (1 John 2:15-17).

Being rich is condemned in the New Testament:
New Testament Verses Condemning A Person in Being Rich:

“And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.” (Mark 4:19).

“Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself. But godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out. And having food and raiment let us be therewith content. But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition. For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness. Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.” (1 Timothy 6:5-12).

“Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;” (1 Timothy 3:3).

“No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.” (Matthew 6:24).

“And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.” (Luke 8:14).

“Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions. Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.” (Matthew 19:21-24).

“And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry. But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided? So is he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.” (Luke 12:19-21).

“Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.” (Luke 12:33-34).

“And he said unto them, Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth” (Luke 12:15).

“If then God so clothe the grass, which is to day in the field, and to morrow is cast into the oven; how much more will he clothe you, O ye of little faith? And seek not ye what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink, neither be ye of doubtful mind. For all these things do the nations of the world seek after: and your Father knoweth that ye have need of these things. But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you.” (Luke 12:28-31).

“And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God (Luke 6:20).

“But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation” (Luke 6:24).

“So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.” (Luke 14:33).

“And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations.” (Luke 16:9).

“Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.” (Hebrews 13:5).

“Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you. Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are moth eaten. Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days. Behold, the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of sabaoth. Ye have lived in pleasure on the earth, and been wanton; ye have nourished your hearts, as in a day of slaughter. Ye have condemned and killed the just; and he doth not resist you.” (James 5:1-6).

“Now ye are full, now ye are rich, ye have reigned as kings without us: and I would to God ye did reign, that we also might reign with you” (1 Corinthians 4:8).

“Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal” (Matthew 6:19).

“In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works” (1 Timothy 2:9-10).

“And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all. Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.” (Acts of the Apostles 4:32-35).

“And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much. And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing. And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury: For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.” (Mark 12:41-44).
Zacchaeus was saved by faith and his giving was evidenced in part, in part only, by his giving. Remember, too, that the poor can be as guilty and if not more so, of making wealth their treasure. They often run after get rich schemes and are scammed by a state sponsored lotto, they covet the money of the wealthy and on it goes. These teachings of the Bible...those warning of the deceitfulness of the love of money...are applicable to all people, rich and poor alike.
I see you foolishly enough posted all those passages again which clearly point to a condition of the heart...money loving...and you are showing everyone by doing this that you are looking only at the surface of the matter.
 
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Between Christians, we need to keep each other in check when we see brothers teaching falsehood. Misquoting Jesus as saying something he clearly didn't say and telling others that they can't be saved unless they give away all their money isn't much different that saying they can't be saved unless they're circumsized. Paul had a problem with people doing things like that.

*Sigh* Nowhere am I saying that you have to give away all your money to be saved. I am saying that a believer cannot be rich and or seek after riches and be saved. Forsaking great material wealth is what we see in the New Covenant because those individual were rich.

Again, Jesus said do not put your treasure here upon this Earth. Treasure is wealth (No matter how you or others want to look at that word). Pirates (of old) desired treasure because it was wealth for them. It was riches. It was money and they wanted to be rich and put treasure here upon this Earth. Jesus says not to do this. For Jesus says that where your treasure is.... there will your heart be also. 1 Timothy 6 says to flee the pursuit of riches and to instead.... follow after righteousness, etc.
 
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Zacchaeus was saved by faith and his giving was evidenced in part, in part only, by his giving. Remember, too, that the poor can be as guilty and if not more so, of making wealth their treasure. They often run after get rich schemes and are scammed by a state sponsored lotto, they covet the money of the wealthy and on it goes. These teachings of the Bible...those warning of the deceitfulness of the love of money...are applicable to all people, rich and poor alike.
I see you foolishly enough posted all those passages again which clearly point to a condition of the heart...money loving...and you are showing everyone by doing this that you are looking only at the surface of the matter.

Do not kid yourself. A person who is rich loves their money because otherwise they would just freely give it away if they did not love it. If a person loves Elvis, you will see Elvis everywhere in their house. If a person loves comics, you will see comics and things about comics everywhere in their home and in how they spend their time. Jesus says where your treasure is... there will your heart be also.

I also understand many here believe in Belief Alone-ism and or OSAS. This is also part of the problem why they cannot see the verses I am presenting to them.
 
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Proverbs 22:2 (KJV):
The rich and poor meet together: the Lord is the maker of them all.

This is not New Covenant teaching. We are under a New Covenant with new commands.
 
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throughfiierytrial

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*Sigh* Nowhere am I saying that you have to give away all your money to be saved. I am saying that a believer cannot be rich and or seek after riches and be saved. Forsaking great material wealth is what we see in the New Covenant because those individual were rich.

Again, Jesus said do not put your treasure here upon this Earth. Treasure is wealth (No matter how you or others want to look at that word). Pirates (of old) desired treasure because it was wealth for them. It was riches. It was money and they wanted to be rich and put treasure here upon this Earth. Jesus says not to do this. For Jesus says that where your treasure is.... there will your heart be also. 1 Timothy 6 says to flee the pursuit of riches and to instead.... follow after righteousness, etc.
1 Timothy 6 says to flee the pursuit of riches and to instead.... follow after righteousness, etc.
 
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Very true. This means the rich man can be saved, and so can those who are sinners, which includes all the world. I hope Jason understands this and stops saying that Jesus said it's impossible for a rich man to be saved. The only sin that's unpardonable is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Nothing about being rich though.

But Jesus said,
"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." (Mark 10:25).
 
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throughfiierytrial

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Do not kid yourself. A person who is rich loves their money because otherwise they would just freely give it away if they did not love it. If a person loves Elvis, you will see Elvis everywhere in their house. If a person loves comics, you will see comics and things about comics everywhere in their home and in how they spend their time. Jesus says where your treasure is... there will your heart be also.

I also understand many here believe in Belief Alone-ism and or OSAS. This is also part of the problem why they cannot see the verses I am presenting to them.
You (Jason):
A person who is rich loves their money because otherwise they would just freely give it away if they did not love it.

Not always true and this is important because you began this thread condemning Christians who were wealthy by net worth alone. I already listed for you several areas of life which God commands a use of our money as Christians and so it is not all simply given away willy-nilly. Don't turn Christianity into some Marxist-cult, because it is a lot more beautiful that that ugly scenario.
 
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1 Timothy 6 says to flee the pursuit of riches and to instead.... follow after righteousness, etc.

I was paraphrasing. 1 Timothy 6 says, I quote:

"...they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, " (1 Timothy 6:9).

"But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness. Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life,"
(1 Timothy 6:11-12).

Flee what things? Being rich because it says that they who will be rich fall into temptation and a snare and into many foolish and hurtful lusts.
 
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throughfiierytrial

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This is not New Covenant teaching. We are under a New Covenant with new commands.
You have very poor insight into the Bible if you do not accept Proverbs as alive and active in our faith today...the book of Wisdom...seems you may have only skimmed it in arriving at your conclusions in this thread. Proverbs is very much germane.
 
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You (Jason):
A person who is rich loves their money because otherwise they would just freely give it away if they did not love it.

Not always true and this is important because you began this thread condemning Christians who were wealthy by net worth alone. I already listed for you several areas of life which God commands a use of our money as Christians and so it is not all simply given away willy-nilly. Don't turn Christianity into some Marxist-cult, because it is a lot more beautiful that that ugly scenario.

Again, Jesus says do not put your treasure here upon this Earth. How are you doing that if you are rich? You cannot say that a rich person is not putting treasure here upon this Earth. Jesus says where your treasure is.... there will their heart be also. A person keeps their money protected in a bank. It is their treasure and they want to protect it. It is precious to them. Their extreme wealth or riches in the bank account is their treasure.
 
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You have very poor insight into the Bible if you do not accept Proverbs as alive and active in our faith today...the book of Wisdom...seems you may have only skimmed it in arriving at your conclusions in this thread. Proverbs is very much germane.

I believe the Old Covenant is applicable in ways for the Christian life. I just do not see it as applying to this particular topic here because the new covenant has given us new commands or changes. In other words, do you feel that we still have to offer animal sacrifices? That's my point. Not everything in the Old is still applicable. So to use the Old Covenant when it does not apply to the new teachings of Jesus Christ is to misapply Scripture.
 
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throughfiierytrial

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I was paraphrasing. 1 Timothy 6 says, I quote:

"...they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, " (1 Timothy 6:9).

"But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness. Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life,"
(1 Timothy 6:11-12).

Flee what things? Being rich because it says that they who will be rich fall into temptation and a snare and into many foolish and hurtful lusts.
That particular passage is best rendered "pursuit" of or eager to get rich as some versions put it.
 
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throughfiierytrial

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Again, Jesus says do not put your treasure here upon this Earth. How are you doing that if you are rich? You cannot say that a rich person is not putting treasure here upon this Earth. Jesus says where your treasure is.... there will their heart be also. A person keeps their money protected in a bank. It is their treasure and they want to protect it. It is precious to them. Their extreme wealth or riches in the bank account is their treasure.
Like talking to a wall...you cannot reason that it is the LOVE of money and not money. There are many, many reasons to save and provide for your family, relatives, loved ones, the poor at later dates and in various methods...not to mention having a concern for future needs of body of Christ. I could go on, but did that.
 
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You should read it a little more carefully:
I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?” Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” Matthew 19:23-26

Not only did Jesus not say "impossible", he also pointed out that with God, all things are possible.

Jesus is saying that God can change a person's heart so that they no longer want to be rich but they want to simply follow Jesus and obey Him (Which is contrary to their lustful nature to desire living for themselves selfishly).
 
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throughfiierytrial

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I believe the Old Covenant is applicable in ways for the Christian life. I just do not see it as applying to this particular topic here because the new covenant has given us new commands or changes. In other words, do you feel that we still have to offer animal sacrifices? That's my point. Not everything in the Old is still applicable. So to use the Old Covenant when it does not apply to the new teachings of Jesus Christ is to misapply Scripture.
No, you must mesh the two accounts.
 
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Very true. This means the rich man can be saved, and so can those who are sinners, which includes all the world. I hope Jason understands this and stops saying that Jesus said it's impossible for a rich man to be saved. The only sin that's unpardonable is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Nothing about being rich though.

Believers do not remain as sinners when they come to Jesus. They ask the Lord Jesus to forgive them of their sin and they walk in the Lord's good ways. This may not be an overnight process, but in time, a believer will mature and grow and learn to walk uprightly with the Lord. Believers cannot remain as sinners or live a sinful lifestyle and be saved. It doesn't work like that.
 
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