Should we listen or learn from Christians who are millionaires?

Should we take advice from Christians who are millionaires?


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Strong in Him

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Actually yes, he did say it was impossible...........for Man....both rich and poor.

It's impossible for any of us to get into the Kingdom on our own, agreed.
We enter the Kingdom of God when we are born again; born of the Spirit. This may mean that others have been praying for us, and God's Spirit will draw us to Jesus, so that we can be forgiven, reconciled to God and have eternal life.When we acknowledge that Jesus is Lord and God is King, then we will be in the Kingdom, and living Kingdom lives and values.
But entering the kingdom is not something we do all on our own, wealth or not; it's impossible. It is also impossible to enter through the door of our good deeds - Jesus is the door. :)

in the flesh......it would be like the a rich and poor man on a line to enter a venue.....the rich man goes to the desk and is told that he doesnt have enough money to enter.......the poor man behind him hears and is dismayed saying : "if he cant afford it....I cant...and most cant either."

The kingdom of heaven is not a venue that considers the contents of your bank account for entry.

:oldthumbsup: :amen:
 
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throughfiierytrial

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But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.

But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.

Put your treasure in Heaven.
Do not put your treasure here upon this Earth.
For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

“And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry. But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided? So is he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.”
Because one has wealth does not evidence that it is his treasure.
As for this passage you cite the wording is to seek to get rich or as you have it (KJV has it) will be rich...do you have your spiritual eyes on or are you needing to pull the log out of your own eyes so as to rightly judge your neighbor. You hit a real stumbling block and it has blinded you with a seeming disdain for those who God made rich in this world...these are among both the godly and the ungodly just as are the poor.
 
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throughfiierytrial

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I do not condemn anyone. The words of Jesus will condemn them.

"He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day." (John 12:48).

Again, your not addressing the issue here. If what you say is true, then why would Jesus tell us to not place treasure here upon this Earth? Why would Jesus say... where your treasure is.... there will your heart be also? Is not the question leading you to believe that it is bad to place your treasure here upon this Earth because it is not a good thing to have your heart here upon this Earth?
Yes, passage is so true...you, however, are twisting the meaning of His words so as to give yourself a reason to hate or condemn a group of people.
 
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Of course.. there is an amazing lack of humour among the theologically driven.

I believe I am a fun loving person and I joke around (in a clean way) many times (Especially with my co-workers). But when it comes to spiritual matters, I try to be a little more serious and careful because we are in a spiritual battle, and I do not want to mislead people down the wrong path by joking (unless I say "joke" or it is clearly obvious to all that I am joking). For I would not want to accidentally mislead anyone.
 
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If things were solely as you say, than verses such as I quoted would not exist.
I have not said godliness is gain. I said being poor is no indictor of being righteous. My best friend since I was 14 is wealthy --compared to me--she has a beautiful huge home on 5 acres, 3 horses and several dogs, they go on trips all over the world every year. She buys beautiful clothes and gets her hair done and gets massages and has gone to spas, and can afford a housekeeper---She also pays her tithe, those trips are as missionaries providing free care for the poor, she is very generous to her charities-they worked their buns off for what they have, he was a dentist and she an operating room nurse--they made a lot of money and have now retired with a good income. I am on social security barely getting by---so what? She stayed loyal to God, married a godly man, and has always placed God first. I left God for many years, married a hard working man that just never could make any money trying to run his own business and I paid the bills. Neither of us cared bout God. My 2nd husband turned out to be an alcoholic who ran through every penny I made and died leaving me broke and barley able to hang on to my home which was acquired by an inheritance from my family. If not for that I would be homeless right now. God has had to step in and help me out countess times just to survive, and though in a wheel chair, I have to do all my own cooking and housekeeping and can barley afford my one lovely dog. All this doesn't make my friend unrighteous and me righteous--just makes me stupid and her faithful to God. And those massages are for pain control--no one is without their problems.
To those that have much, much will be required--come judgment day--we will all account for how we spent our money--the men given the talents were rewarded for being good stewards, the one that didn't take care of the money given him, got his taken away. He wasn't praised for doing nothing with it.

You cannot judge how you are to live your faith for Jesus based solely on your experience but you have to take it by faith in trusting in what God's Word says. The Bible comes first and not your life experiences. I am not saying for believers to give up their house (if a Christian owns one). The disciple Jason owned his own home. Even Zacchaeus (who was a rich tax collector) gave only half of his goods to the poor and not all of his goods (and Jesus accepted that). Jesus actually said salvation had come to his house that day. So Zacchaeus's giving is related to salvation or eternal life. If it was not then Jesus would not say salvation came to His house by his giving of half of his goods to the poor, but he would have said that salvation was His when He merely believed in Him as His Savior. So forsaking one's material possessions is a part of the Kingdom. Acquiring material possessions and amassing wealth is actually contrary to the Kingdom. God wants us to give more of our resources and time to others in love towards others. If we are holding on to millions while others in our area are suffering and need that money, we are showing we do not love those around us. If our resources could go to help our neighbor and yet we are holding on waaay more than what we need we simply do not care about them. This is what the New Covenant way is all about. Sure, God may have allowed for men of God to be rich in the Old Covenant, but we are not in that covenant anymore.

Forsaking the things of this world is a part of the Kingdom:
Everyone who has forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life (‭‭Matthew‬ ‭19:29‬) (Mark 10:29-30 says, “There is no man that has left house, or brothers, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's, But he shall receive a hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brothers, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.”) (Luke 14:33 says, “Whosoever he be of you that forsakes not all that he has, he cannot be my disciple.”) (Similar: Matthew 16:24, Mark 8:34, and Luke 9:23) (Luke 18:29-30 says, “No man who has left home or wife or brothers or sisters or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God will fail to receive many times as much in this age, and in the age to come eternal life.” - NIV).

He that takes not his cross, and follows after me, is not worthy of me (Matthew 10:38)

(Matthew 16:24 says, “If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.”) (Also see: Mark 8:34, and Luke 9:23) (Luke 14:27 says, “And whosoever does not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.”) (Similar: Matthew‬ ‭19:29‬, Mark 10:29-30, and Luke 14:33) (John 12:26 says, “If any man serve me, let him follow me;”).

He that finds his life shall lose it (Matthew 10:39) (“Whosoever will save his life shall lose it” - Matthew 16:25) (John 12:25 says “He that loveth his life shall lose it;”).

He that loses his life for my sake shall find it (Matthew 10:39) (“whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's,” - Mark 8:35) (Luke 9:24 says the same thing as Matthew 16:25) (John 12:25 says, “He that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.”)

Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth forever." (1 John 2:15-17).

Being rich is condemned in the New Testament:
New Testament Verses Condemning A Person in Being Rich:

“And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.” (Mark 4:19).

“Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself. But godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out. And having food and raiment let us be therewith content. But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition. For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness. Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.” (1 Timothy 6:5-12).

“Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;” (1 Timothy 3:3).

“No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.” (Matthew 6:24).

“And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.” (Luke 8:14).

“Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions. Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.” (Matthew 19:21-24).

“And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry. But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided? So is he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.” (Luke 12:19-21).

“Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.” (Luke 12:33-34).

“And he said unto them, Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth” (Luke 12:15).

“If then God so clothe the grass, which is to day in the field, and to morrow is cast into the oven; how much more will he clothe you, O ye of little faith? And seek not ye what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink, neither be ye of doubtful mind. For all these things do the nations of the world seek after: and your Father knoweth that ye have need of these things. But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you.” (Luke 12:28-31).

“And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God (Luke 6:20).

“But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation” (Luke 6:24).

“So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.” (Luke 14:33).

“And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations.” (Luke 16:9).

“Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.” (Hebrews 13:5).

“Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you. Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are moth eaten. Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days. Behold, the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of sabaoth. Ye have lived in pleasure on the earth, and been wanton; ye have nourished your hearts, as in a day of slaughter. Ye have condemned and killed the just; and he doth not resist you.” (James 5:1-6).

“Now ye are full, now ye are rich, ye have reigned as kings without us: and I would to God ye did reign, that we also might reign with you” (1 Corinthians 4:8).

“Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal” (Matthew 6:19).

“In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works” (1 Timothy 2:9-10).

“And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all. Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.” (Acts of the Apostles 4:32-35).

“And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much. And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing. And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury: For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.” (Mark 12:41-44).
 
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Yes, passage is so true...you, however, are twisting the meaning of His words so as to give yourself a reason to hate or condemn a group of people.

Again, I do not condemn them. Scripture does. There are more than enough verses here to leave you and others here without excuse that the Bible teaches that a believer cannot be rich under the New Covenant.

Your unwillingness to accept that truth does not undo what the Bible plainly says.

For being rich is condemned in the New Testament:
New Testament Verses Condemning A Person in Being Rich:

“And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.” (Mark 4:19).

“Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself. But godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out. And having food and raiment let us be therewith content. But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition. For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness. Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.” (1 Timothy 6:5-12).

“Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;” (1 Timothy 3:3).

“No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.” (Matthew 6:24).

“And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.” (Luke 8:14).

“Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions. Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.” (Matthew 19:21-24).

“And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry. But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided? So is he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.” (Luke 12:19-21).

“Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.” (Luke 12:33-34).

“And he said unto them, Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth” (Luke 12:15).

“If then God so clothe the grass, which is to day in the field, and to morrow is cast into the oven; how much more will he clothe you, O ye of little faith? And seek not ye what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink, neither be ye of doubtful mind. For all these things do the nations of the world seek after: and your Father knoweth that ye have need of these things. But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you.” (Luke 12:28-31).

“And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God (Luke 6:20).

“But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation” (Luke 6:24).

“So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.” (Luke 14:33).

“And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations.” (Luke 16:9).

“Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.” (Hebrews 13:5).

“Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you. Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are moth eaten. Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days. Behold, the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of sabaoth. Ye have lived in pleasure on the earth, and been wanton; ye have nourished your hearts, as in a day of slaughter. Ye have condemned and killed the just; and he doth not resist you.” (James 5:1-6).

“Now ye are full, now ye are rich, ye have reigned as kings without us: and I would to God ye did reign, that we also might reign with you” (1 Corinthians 4:8).

“Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal” (Matthew 6:19).

“In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works” (1 Timothy 2:9-10).

“And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all. Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.” (Acts of the Apostles 4:32-35).

“And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much. And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing. And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury: For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.” (Mark 12:41-44).
 
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Because one has wealth does not evidence that it is his treasure.
As for this passage you cite the wording is to seek to get rich or as you have it (KJV has it) will be rich...do you have your spiritual eyes on or are you needing to pull the log out of your own eyes so as to rightly judge your neighbor. You hit a real stumbling block and it has blinded you with a seeming disdain for those who God made rich in this world...these are among both the godly and the ungodly just as are the poor.

Come on now. Wealth is treasure. Why do think pirates (of the old days) chase after treasure? It is because it is wealth. So you are playing with words so as not to see the obvious. If you amass treasure here upon this Earth, you are amassing wealth, money, riches, etc. Jesus commands us to not put our treasure here upon this Earth where moth and dust does corrupt.
 
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Because one has wealth does not evidence that it is his treasure.
As for this passage you cite the wording is to seek to get rich or as you have it (KJV has it) will be rich...do you have your spiritual eyes on or are you needing to pull the log out of your own eyes so as to rightly judge your neighbor. You hit a real stumbling block and it has blinded you with a seeming disdain for those who God made rich in this world...these are among both the godly and the ungodly just as are the poor.

If it is not their treasure, then why are they holding on to that wealth? Are they living within their means? Could not others who are poor and suffering near their home be helped by that wealth? I would say that is rather selfish to not give of their resources while they are living it up like kings here upon this Earth.
 
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Actually yes, he did say it was impossible...........for Man....both rich and poor. The enemies wishes us to focus on material riches.....knowing that the harm done is the same for those who focus of getting a lot of it as well as those who focus on getting a little......those who focus on the little they have the same as those who focus on the much that others have. It is all equally destructive.

In the passages you quoted......the disciples expected that the rich should be able to get in heaven faster than the poor.......so when the Master said that it was hard for him......they were very dismayed....saying....if not them than who?

in the flesh......it would be like the a rich and poor man on a line to enter a venue.....the rich man goes to the desk and is told that he doesnt have enough money to enter.......the poor man behind him hears and is dismayed saying : "if he cant afford it....I cant...and most cant either."

The kingdom of heaven is not a venue that considers the contents of your bank account for entry.

Those who have an ear...hear.

Jesus said it is impossible for a rich man to enter the kingdom of Heaven. So yes, I would say that what is in one's bank account or their assets directly applies to their standing in God's Kingdom. If you are considered rich by the basic understanding of that word and meaning, then one can hardly enter the kingdom of God. It's what Jesus said. So if a person is a millionaire, they cannot enter God's Kingdom unless they repent of their wealth and give it away to help others and they then live within their basic means.
 
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It is all subjective..... I dont feel that I can retire with 5mill......I would need at least 30mill before I would say I can comfortably be able to never work again for someone else.....and still be able to do the things I like to do while i was working.

If you are old and have little expenses and no health issues, then maybe 5mill would be enough....especially if you do not desire to give to others...

And all this is unrelated to salvation.....Since the gift cannot be brought with moneys received or money you refuse to receive.

I dont desire for you to be poor or rich.....I want for you to have what you desire....and see no fault in whatever that desire is..

The New Testament does not tell us to save up millions of dollars for retirement, though. Paul says to live is Christ, and to die is gain. We are to live the life of Christ and follow His example.
 
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I thought it was a great analogy. Saying that it is wrong or a sin to own a gun, because there are people who choose to murder with them.......is very similar to saying that it is wrong and a sin to have a lot of money.....

Not the same thing. I am not saying that to own a gun is a sin because you can hunt for food with a gun. But if a person carries a gun on them (even when they go to the store for protection), then we have a problem. For the New Testament teaches non-resistance or pacifism. Hebrews 12:14 says to make peace with all men of which if we do not, no man shall see the Lord. How are we seeking to make peace with all men if we plan on shooting them?

because there are some whose hearts are corrupted by such.....

This is a false accusation and speaking evil of the brethren. The Bible clearly teaches that a believer cannot be rich under the New Covenant.

For being rich is condemned in the New Testament:
New Testament Verses Condemning A Person in Being Rich:

“And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.” (Mark 4:19).

“Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself. But godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out. And having food and raiment let us be therewith content. But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition. For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness. Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.” (1 Timothy 6:5-12).

“Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;” (1 Timothy 3:3).

“No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.” (Matthew 6:24).

“And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.” (Luke 8:14).

“Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions. Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.” (Matthew 19:21-24).

“And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry. But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided? So is he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.” (Luke 12:19-21).

“Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.” (Luke 12:33-34).

“And he said unto them, Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth” (Luke 12:15).

“If then God so clothe the grass, which is to day in the field, and to morrow is cast into the oven; how much more will he clothe you, O ye of little faith? And seek not ye what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink, neither be ye of doubtful mind. For all these things do the nations of the world seek after: and your Father knoweth that ye have need of these things. But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you.” (Luke 12:28-31).

“And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God (Luke 6:20).

“But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation” (Luke 6:24).

“So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.” (Luke 14:33).

“And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations.” (Luke 16:9).

“Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.” (Hebrews 13:5).

“Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you. Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are moth eaten. Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days. Behold, the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of sabaoth. Ye have lived in pleasure on the earth, and been wanton; ye have nourished your hearts, as in a day of slaughter. Ye have condemned and killed the just; and he doth not resist you.” (James 5:1-6).

“Now ye are full, now ye are rich, ye have reigned as kings without us: and I would to God ye did reign, that we also might reign with you” (1 Corinthians 4:8).

“Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal” (Matthew 6:19).

“In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works” (1 Timothy 2:9-10).

“And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all. Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.” (Acts of the Apostles 4:32-35).

“And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much. And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing. And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury: For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.” (Mark 12:41-44).

You said:
Likewise, to say all people will commit murder if they have possession of a gun, is the same as saying all who obtains millions will turn from God. These are simply untrue statements.

No. They are not the same thing and the analogy is simply untrue.
 
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throughfiierytrial

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You cannot judge how you are to live your faith for Jesus based solely on your experience but you have to take it by faith in trusting in what God's Word says. The Bible comes first and not your life experiences. I am not saying for believers to give up their house (if a Christian owns one). The disciple Jason owned his own home. Even Zacchaeus (who was a rich tax collector) gave only half of his goods to the poor and not all of his goods (and Jesus accepted that). Jesus actually said salvation had come to his house that day. So Zacchaeus's giving is related to salvation or eternal life. If it was not then Jesus would not say salvation came to His house by his giving of half of his goods to the poor, but he would have said that salvation was His when He merely believed in Him as His Savior. So forsaking one's material possessions is a part of the Kingdom. Acquiring material possessions and amassing wealth is actually contrary to the Kingdom. God wants us to give more of our resources and time to others in love towards others. If we are holding on to millions while others in our area are suffering and need that money, we are showing we do not love those around us. If our resources could go to help our neighbor and yet we are holding on waaay more than what we need we simply do not care about them. This is what the New Covenant way is all about. Sure, God may have allowed for men of God to be rich in the Old Covenant, but we are not in that covenant anymore.

Forsaking the things of this world is a part of the Kingdom:
Everyone who has forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life (‭‭Matthew‬ ‭19:29‬) (Mark 10:29-30 says, “There is no man that has left house, or brothers, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's, But he shall receive a hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brothers, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.”) (Luke 14:33 says, “Whosoever he be of you that forsakes not all that he has, he cannot be my disciple.”) (Similar: Matthew 16:24, Mark 8:34, and Luke 9:23) (Luke 18:29-30 says, “No man who has left home or wife or brothers or sisters or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God will fail to receive many times as much in this age, and in the age to come eternal life.” - NIV).

He that takes not his cross, and follows after me, is not worthy of me (Matthew 10:38)

(Matthew 16:24 says, “If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.”) (Also see: Mark 8:34, and Luke 9:23) (Luke 14:27 says, “And whosoever does not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.”) (Similar: Matthew‬ ‭19:29‬, Mark 10:29-30, and Luke 14:33) (John 12:26 says, “If any man serve me, let him follow me;”).

He that finds his life shall lose it (Matthew 10:39) (“Whosoever will save his life shall lose it” - Matthew 16:25) (John 12:25 says “He that loveth his life shall lose it;”).

He that loses his life for my sake shall find it (Matthew 10:39) (“whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's,” - Mark 8:35) (Luke 9:24 says the same thing as Matthew 16:25) (John 12:25 says, “He that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.”)

Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth forever." (1 John 2:15-17).

Being rich is condemned in the New Testament:
New Testament Verses Condemning A Person in Being Rich:

“And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.” (Mark 4:19).

“Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself. But godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out. And having food and raiment let us be therewith content. But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition. For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness. Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.” (1 Timothy 6:5-12).

“Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;” (1 Timothy 3:3).

“No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.” (Matthew 6:24).

“And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.” (Luke 8:14).

“Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions. Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.” (Matthew 19:21-24).

“And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry. But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided? So is he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.” (Luke 12:19-21).

“Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.” (Luke 12:33-34).

“And he said unto them, Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth” (Luke 12:15).

“If then God so clothe the grass, which is to day in the field, and to morrow is cast into the oven; how much more will he clothe you, O ye of little faith? And seek not ye what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink, neither be ye of doubtful mind. For all these things do the nations of the world seek after: and your Father knoweth that ye have need of these things. But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you.” (Luke 12:28-31).

“And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God (Luke 6:20).

“But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation” (Luke 6:24).

“So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.” (Luke 14:33).

“And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations.” (Luke 16:9).

“Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.” (Hebrews 13:5).

“Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you. Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are moth eaten. Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days. Behold, the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of sabaoth. Ye have lived in pleasure on the earth, and been wanton; ye have nourished your hearts, as in a day of slaughter. Ye have condemned and killed the just; and he doth not resist you.” (James 5:1-6).

“Now ye are full, now ye are rich, ye have reigned as kings without us: and I would to God ye did reign, that we also might reign with you” (1 Corinthians 4:8).

“Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal” (Matthew 6:19).

“In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works” (1 Timothy 2:9-10).

“And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all. Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.” (Acts of the Apostles 4:32-35).

“And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much. And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing. And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury: For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.” (Mark 12:41-44).
Proverbs 22:2 (KJV):
The rich and poor meet together: the Lord is the maker of them all.
 
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throughfiierytrial

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If it is not their treasure, then why are they holding on to that wealth? Are they living within their means? Could not others who are poor and suffering near their home be helped by that wealth? I would say that is rather selfish to not give of their resources while they are living it up like kings here upon this Earth.
At what point...following the gain...must one's money or "wealth" be released to the poor to satisfy you a wealthy person is among the righteous?
At what point is one in possession of excess wealth according to your formula to judge them as corrupt and condemned and not to be considered among the righteous?

Proverbs 22:2 (KJV):
The rich and poor meet together: the Lord is the maker of them all.

You seem to be trying to bring divisions among the believing body which is truly corrupt:

Romans 16:16-18 (KJV):
Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
 
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Aldebaran

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Jesus said it is impossible for a rich man to enter the kingdom of Heaven.

You should read it a little more carefully:
I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?” Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” Matthew 19:23-26

Not only did Jesus not say "impossible", he also pointed out that with God, all things are possible.
 
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RaymondG

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The New Testament does not tell us to save up millions of dollars for retirement, though. Paul says to live is Christ, and to die is gain. We are to live the life of Christ and follow His example.
I find no fault in you believing what it is that you believe. Nor do I wish to change your mind in anyway. My words are for those that would hear them.
 
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throughfiierytrial

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Come on now. Wealth is treasure. Why do think pirates (of the old days) chase after treasure? It is because it is wealth. So you are playing with words so as not to see the obvious. If you amass treasure here upon this Earth, you are amassing wealth, money, riches, etc. Jesus commands us to not put our treasure here upon this Earth where moth and dust does corrupt.
Who is it that gives mankind his abilities? Who is it that makes some grow rich?
Proverbs 22:2 (KJV):
The rich and poor meet together: the Lord is the maker of them all.
 
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RaymondG

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You should read it a little more carefully:
I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?” Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” Matthew 19:23-26

Not only did Jesus not say "impossible", he also pointed out that with God, all things are possible.
I also believe that Jesus was addressing the "Who then can be saved?" Which implies all the world. Therefore, the "Man" would include all and not just rich men.
 
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timothyu

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It's impossible for any of us to get into the Kingdom on our own, agreed.
Actually none of us could create a way out of the situation we put ourselves in since the Garden. It was God by grace creating the Kingdom that gave us that out. And it was God that said put His will first thus loving neighbour as self and you can get in.

How can you remain in the world of man if you are acting in ways contrary to it's default nature? Likewise how can you be in the Kingdom if you don't.
 
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I also believe that Jesus was addressing the "Who then can be saved?" Which implies all the world. Therefore, the "Man" would include all and not just rich men.

Very true. This means the rich man can be saved, and so can those who are sinners, which includes all the world. I hope Jason understands this and stops saying that Jesus said it's impossible for a rich man to be saved. The only sin that's unpardonable is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Nothing about being rich though.
 
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