Should the Church Auto-Anathematize Child Abusers who have Not Confessed in Secular Courts?

Should the Church auto-anathematize child abusers who have not confessed in secular courts?

  • Yes! World wide, binding on all, auto-anathema till child abusers confess in secular courts.

    Votes: 2 40.0%
  • No

    Votes: 2 40.0%
  • Yes, but only anathematize Catholic child abusers.

    Votes: 1 20.0%

  • Total voters
    5

StevenMerten

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John 20:20
At the sight of the Lord the disciples rejoiced. "Peace be with you," he said again. "As the Father has sent me, so I send you." Then he breathed on them and said: "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive men's sins, they are forgiven them; if you hold them bound, they are held bound."


Matthew 18:5
"Whoever welcomes one such child for my sake welcomes me. On the other hand, it would be better for anyone who leads astray one of these little ones who believes in me, to be drown by a millstone around his neck, in the depths of the sea. What terrible things will come on the world through scandal! It is inevitable that scandal should occur. Nonetheless, woe to that man through whom scandal comes! If your hand or foot is your undoing, cut it off and throw it from you! Better to enter life maimed or crippled than be thrown with two hands or feet into endless fire. If your eye is your downfall, gouge it out and cast it from you! Better to enter life with one eye than be thrown with both into fiery Gehenna.
I do not see the Church as having done anything to protect our children until they step up and use the 'Sword of Christ's Mouth', Jesus Power to bind sins, which He entrusted to His Apostles and their successors, to protect our children.

Christ's Church needs to enact a world wide, binding on all, auto-anathema, upon any child abuser who has not yet confessed his crimes to secular prosecutors and secular courts. The beauty in binding to the sin of not confessing the sin of child abuse to the secular courts, is that the anathema no longer applies once criminal child abusers confess their crimes in secular courts. Thus we have Jesus' Power, His Power to bind to sin, and thus eternal damnation, protecting our children from child abusers.

Jesus has made it clear, in Matthew 18, "it would be better for anyone who leads astray one of these little ones who believes in me, to be drown by a millstone around his neck, in the depths of the sea. What terrible things will come on the world through scandal!", that He wants children protected.

Anathema
..."To understand the word anathema", says Vigouroux, "we should first go back to the real meaning of herem of which it is the equivalent. Herem comes from the word haram, to cut off, to separate, to curse, and indicates that which is cursed and condemned to be cut off or exterminated, whether a person or a thing, and in consequence, that which man is forbidden to make use of."...

...but anathematized, and that he may be stricken by the sword of Heaven"....

..."Know that Engeltrude is not only under the ban of excommunication, which separates her from the society of the brethren, but under the anathema, which separates from the body of Christ, which is the Church."...

..."If, after having been deposed from office, he is incorrigible, he should first be excommunicated; but if he perseveres in his contumacy he should be stricken with the sword of anathema; but if plunging to the depths of the abyss, he reaches the point where he despises these penalties, he should be given over to the secular arm."...

...In passing this sentence, the pontiff is vested in amice, stole, and a violet cope, wearing his miter, and assisted by twelve priests clad in their surplices and holding lighted candles. He takes his seat in front of the altar or in some other suitable place, amid pronounces the formula of anathema which ends with these words: Wherefore in the name of God the All-powerful, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, of the Blessed Peter, Prince of the Apostles, and of all the saints, in virtue of the power which has been given us of binding and loosing in Heaven and on earth, we deprive N-- himself and all his accomplices and all his abettors of the Communion of the Body and Blood of our Lord, we separate him from the society of all Christians, we exclude him from the bosom of our Holy Mother the Church in Heaven and on earth, we declare him excommunicated and anathematized and we judge him condemned to eternal fire with Satan and his angels and all the reprobate , so long as he will not burst the fetters of the demon, do penance and satisfy the Church; we deliver him to Satan to mortify his body, that his soul may be saved on the day of judgment."

He who dares to despise our decision, let him be stricken with anathema maranatha, i.e. may he be damned at the coming of the Lord, may he have his place with Judas Iscariot, he and his companions.

Quoted from: New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia - Anathema
 
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dzheremi

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I'm confused about the scope of the question given the last option ("only anathematize Catholic child abusers"), so I didn't vote. Are you asking what every church -- Catholic or not -- should do about child abuse problems?

As far as I know, my own Church does not have this problem (or if we do it has not reached the magnitude where even the Arabic press is reporting on it, which they would as they have sexual scandals in the Coptic Orthodox Church in the past), but I would still say, yes, any child abuser of any rank including priests and bishops must be anathematized, which in an Orthodox concept includes also laicization (i.e., we do not have the belief that is expressed by various means in your church that "once a priest always a priest"; if you're out, you're out -- you don't take your priestly ordination with you). I know that we would commune a sincerely repentant abuser, as there are Copts in jail for crimes like murder and such who are communed in prison ministry settings, but being an Orthodox Christian is not a "get out of jail" or "get out of confession" free card. Criminals must be punished, and crimes against children are the most heinous anyone can think of. Lord have mercy.
 
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Just Another User

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Paul saw it fit to excommunicate a man in constant adultery in 1 Corinthians 5 so we should be fine excommunicating or anathematising those that commit disgusting sins repeatedly and not repenting.

If we know of a child abuser they should be removed from the church and hopefully after a long time of realising their evil acts will come back with a contrite spirit and willing to submit themselves to Christ again.

I agree with getting rid of them without a second thought but I feel that it should be based on the person confessing to the congregation rather than the secular courts.
 
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StevenMerten

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I'm confused about the scope of the question given the last option ("only anathematize Catholic child abusers"), so I didn't vote. Are you asking what every church -- Catholic or not -- should do about child abuse problems?

As far as I know, my own Church does not have this problem (or if we do it has not reached the magnitude where even the Arabic press is reporting on it, which they would as they have sexual scandals in the Coptic Orthodox Church in the past), but I would still say, yes, any child abuser of any rank including priests and bishops must be anathematized, which in an Orthodox concept includes also laicization (i.e., we do not have the belief that is expressed by various means in your church that "once a priest always a priest"; if you're out, you're out -- you don't take your priestly ordination with you). I know that we would commune a sincerely repentant abuser, as there are Copts in jail for crimes like murder and such who are communed in prison ministry settings, but being an Orthodox Christian is not a "get out of jail" or "get out of confession" free card. Criminals must be punished, and crimes against children are the most heinous anyone can think of. Lord have mercy.

Matthew 16:13
Jesus replied, "Blest are you, Simon son of John! No mere man has revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father. I for my part declare to you, you are 'Rock,' and on this rock I will build my church, and the jaws of death shall not prevail against it. I will entrust to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you declare bound on earth shall be bound in heaven; whatever you declare loosed on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
Hello Dzheremi,
Jesus put St. Peter in charge of all His followers on earth. A Pope simply has to call upon Jesus to fulfill His Promise to St. Peter, and thus St. Peter's Successors, that He will bind in heaven, any child abuser, till they confess their crimes in courts.

We Catholics see all non-Catholic Christians as going to heaven through Christ's One Universal Church, the Catholic Church, even if they are non-Catholic Christians. Thus Jesus' authority on earth, which He placed on and through St. Peter, in the papacy, applies to all Christians, Catholic or not.

I know there are many non-Catholic Christians out there who disregard Jesus' desire to unite His Church on earth through Jesus authorization of one, unequaled authority in the papacy, over all others of His followers. I think these Christians are betting on the wrong way of seeing Jesus' authority in His Church leaders on earth.
 
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StevenMerten

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I agree with getting rid of them without a second thought but I feel that it should be based on the person confessing to the congregation rather than the secular courts.

Hello JAU,
That did not work for we Catholics. The Bishops simply covered it up. Now we ask the Pope to bind all child abusers on earth, to eternal damnation, until they confess their crimes in secular courts.
 
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StevenMerten

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Okay. :scratch:

Thank you, but that didn't answer my question. In the poll that you started, are you talking about all churches everywhere, or just churches in union with Rome?

Hello DZ,
We do not see Jesus as having limited His Promise, to St. Peter and his successors, of binding anyone they call upon Him to bind to sin, to just Catholics. We would like the Pope to use Jesus' Promise to bind anyone to sin, to bind all child abusers on earth to sin, until they confess in secular courts.
 
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Just Another User

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Hello JAU,
That did not work for we Catholics. The Bishops simply covered it up. Now we ask the Pope to bind all child abusers on earth, to eternal damnation, until they confess their crimes in secular courts.

If you need to get them out then you should do it this way if there isn't an alternative. Most other churches seem to be able to do it the way I described but I understand the hierarchic nature of the clergy can make this hard. I wish my Catholic brothers and sisters good luck in trying to remove this scourge from the faith. If this it what it's come to then I hope the Bishop of Rome makes the right decision for this flock.
 
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StevenMerten

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If you need to get them out then you should do it this way if there isn't an alternative. Most other churches seem to be able to do it the way I described but I understand the hierarchic nature of the clergy can make this hard. I wish my Catholic brothers and sisters good luck in trying to remove this scourge from the faith. If this it what it's come to then I hope the Bishop of Rome makes the right decision for this flock.

Hello JAU,
Why not just protect all children on earth from any child abuser, whether the abuser is a boy scout leader, school teacher, atheist, pagan, or whatever? Once a Pope auto-anathematizes all child abusers, till they confess in courts, now the abuser's conscience is going to be in full swing, having the knowledge their is no salvation through Jesus Christ, until they confess in secular courts.
 
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Just Another User

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Hello JAU,
Why not just protect all children on earth from any child abuser, whether the abuser is a boy scout leader, school teacher, atheist, pagan, or whatever? Once a Pope auto-anathematizes all child abusers, till they confess in courts, now the abuser's conscience is going to be in full swing, having the knowledge their is no salvation through Jesus Christ, until they confess in secular courts.

Agreed.
 
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StevenMerten

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And what about those who can't confess their crimes in a secular court because the statute of limitations has passed?
Confess it anyway, simply to not have the anathema on their backs. The media might want to know. The victims will have a little closure, from child abusers confessing their crimes against them, to the public.
 
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Hank77

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Confess it anyway, simply to not have the anathema on their backs. The media might want to know. The victims will have a little closure, from child abusers confessing their crimes against them, to the public.
If they can't be brought to justice in a criminal court they won't be registered as sex offenders.

I didn't vote because I'm not Catholic.
 
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StevenMerten

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If they can't be brought to justice in a criminal court they won't be registered as sex offenders.
I didn't vote because I'm not Catholic.
Hello Hank,
Go ahead and vote. Jesus authorized St. Peter and His Successors with unequaled Power, to bind and loost sins, over all His followers, and all people on earth.

Why would we Catholics want a Pope to limit Christ's Power to bind sins, only Catholic child abusers, and thus eternal damnation, till they confess their crimes in secular courts? This would defeat the act of trying to protect our Catholic, as well as non-Catholic, Children. We do not want a loop hole where a Pope grants the Protestants, atheists or pagans, immunity from being bound to sin by Jesus and His Church. Catholic Child abusers would just leave the Catholic Church, in favor of a Protestant church, that a Pope allowed immunity for child abusers.
 
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Pavel Mosko

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Concerning the OP, based on my experience talking with Catholics on Catholic boards etc. I do not see this sort of thing working out.

1) To start with it's unnecessary. Catholics already have a concept of "mortal sin", many things qualify for that, and most definitely Child abuse would be one of them!


2) Anathemas are serious business and cannot be given out willy nilly. Even a blanket one on a sympathetic issue like this one has got some potential problems because we don't know all the circumstances of every case. Situations vary, and people vary, some have mitigating circumstances while others do not.
 
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StevenMerten

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Concerning the OP, based on my experience talking with Catholics on Catholic boards etc. I do not see this sort of thing working out.

1) To start with it's unnecessary. Catholics already have a concept of "mortal sin", many things qualify for that, and most definitely Child abuse would be one of them!


2) Anathemas are serious business and cannot be given out willy nilly. Even a blanket one on a sympathetic issue like this one has got some potential problems because we don't know all the circumstances of every case. Situations vary, and people vary, some have mitigating circumstances while others do not.

Leviticus 20 Penalties for Various Sins.
The LORD said to Moses, "Tell the Israelites: Anyone, whether an Israelite or an alien residing in Israel who gives any of his offspring to Molech shall be put to death. Let his fellow citizens stone him. I myself will turn against such a man and cut him off from the body of his people: for in giving his offspring to Molech, he has defiled my sanctuary and profaned my holy name."

Matthew 18:17
"If he ignores them, refer it to the church . If he ignores even the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector.
I assure you, whatever you declare bound on earth shall be held bound in heaven, and whatever you declare loosed on earth shall be held loosed in heaven."

Matthew 5:29 Occasions of Impurity.

If your right eye is your trouble, gouge it out and throw it away! Better you lose part of your body than to have it all cast into Gehenna. Again if your right hand is your trouble, cut it off and throw it away! Better to lose part of your body than to have it all cast into Gehenna."

Matthew 18:5
"Whoever welcomes one such child for my sake welcomes me. On the other hand, it would be better for anyone who leads astray one of these little ones who believes in me, to be drown by a millstone around his neck, in the depths of the sea. What terrible things will come on the world through scandal! It is inevitable that scandal should occur. Nonetheless, woe to that man through whom scandal comes! If your hand or foot is your undoing, cut it off and throw it from you! Better to enter life maimed or crippled than be thrown with two hands or feet into endless fire. If your eye is your downfall, gouge it out and cast it from you! Better to enter life with one eye than be thrown with both into fiery Gehenna.

Hello Pavel,

When do you say a Pope should call upon Jesus to bind and evildoer to their sins, and thus eternal damnation? Yes! Obviously Jesus can judge those with mortal sin into damnation on Judgement day. Why then, did Jesus blow the Holy Spirit upon His Apostles and give them the power to call upon Him to bind to sin, and thus eternal damnation? I say, Jesus armed His Apostles with a spiritual death weapon to protect the Body of His Church from being pulled into hell by evildoer members from within her Body.

Jesus Commands His Church, that if her eye, hand or foot is her downfall, she is to cut it off and throw it into Gehenna. Jesus says that it is better to cut off and throw into hell evil limbs from the body of His Church, than to keep them with the Body to pull the whole Body of His Church into hell. Well, this Catholic Clergy abuse scandal, allong with all the other evils members of Jesus' Church are
committing, is one of those 'scandals' which threatens the whole Body of His Church, from being pulled into Gehenna.

The whole Body of Christ’s Church is teetering on the edge of the abyss. Jesus has Commanded His Church on what to do to protect the whole Body of His Church from being pulled into hell by the evildoer ‘limbs’ of the Body of the Church within; Cut them off and throw them into Gehenna! Jesus left the ‘Sword of Christ’s Mouth’, Catholic Church Anathema, for His Church leaders to stand and defend the Body of His Church, with all their might.

Concept quoted from:
Throwing Stones
 
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Mark_Sam

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After having read my fair share of Dr. Ed Peters, he's convinced me that automatic excommunications (laetae sententiae) are a bad idea, canonically speaking. It just gets really messy, and Eastern Catholics manage to do without them. So automatic anathemas would be even worse.

And as noted, child abuse is already a mortal sin. And unless they repent, they have already damned their own souls. As this is the Church's teaching, they all ought to know it already. An auto-anathema wouldn't add anything to it.
 
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