Minimal beliefs for Christian

FireDragon76

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I think it was pretty mixed. In those early years there were a number of differing ideas of Jesus Christ through out the region. That's why it took centuries for it to all wash out into a single statement of faith. And even now there are still differing ideas.

Historians generally agree that Christianity is based on an actual historical figure named Jesus of Nazareth. While there were different perspectives on his life (as reflected in various epistles and gospels), those tend to fall within the basic creeds I mentioned.
 
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Uber Genius

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For those who are unaware of category mistakes or error they are representing it has to do with how to distinguish between different categories of related items. So in the claim above that I was making a "category error," the claim is that I am co-joining to very different categories into one idea. Roughly claims of what exists, co-joined with claims of how one can know what exists.
 
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Uber Genius

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Your mistake is putting ontology ahead of epistemology. One could always beg the question of how we know about essence or being at all, and hence the general skepticism of essentialist accounts of reality now days.
That is absurd.
Knowledge has a variety of definitions but all have some form of Justified true beliefs.

Justification has to do with reasons or arguments for why something is the case.

We don't have belief that rises to the level of knowledge without it first being true (in the ontic sense).

Did dinosaurs live during the Jurassic age?

Uber - "Yes"
FireDragon - "No" because humans weren't around to know they existed."

Did the universe always expand since God created it 13.7 Billion years ago?

Uber - "Yes"
FireDragon - "No" only since 1915, when Einstein first theorized it, well actually not then because he wasn't able to justify his theory until 1929 by Hubble and others. Actually, no because I don't currently hold that belief so since I don't have that knowledge, my world doesn't contain and expanding universe and 2+2 is not equal to 4 in my world either.

There must exist a Jesus before we can know Jesus.

Further there are next to no skeptics of the variety you are speaking even in philosophy departments. So if you want to take this down some skepticism route be my guest but good luck stopping the damage to much more basic things such as other minds, the reality of the past, a real external world.

We seem to be drifting into Bishop Berkeley's subjective idealism that denies the existence of the material world.

You are the first person I have ever met that held that the ontic world (the set of things that we could express were objectively true) came to ZERO.

I have heard of a professor who was a solipsist in MI. Back in the 1970s but that was it.
 
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Uber Genius

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It pains me to see people conceive of themselves and others in terms of fundamental misanthropy, as if the essence of being human is metaphysical/moral inadequacy - and then providing the most profoundly shallow, gruesome and lazy solution to it by claiming that a human sacrifice somehow absolves people of all responsibility.

Cogently argued.

Oops I meant "Rhetorically Ranted."

This response above fails to make any attempt to engage the argument or its premises. To engage an inference at explaining the real world. Instead it makes sweeping generalizations and commits appeals to snobbery (because Christians are "Profoundly shallow, gruesome and lazy). Please look up "Ad Hominem."

Propaganda of the type you are demonstrating fails to engage the issue and punts lazily to rhetorical flourish, claiming absurdly and laughably to moral and intellectual high ground.

Please engage the topic with premises or defeaters of same. Engage the arguments. Use real sources not Islamic creative writers and their strawman caricatures of Jesus and his claims. At this point even Zeitgeist would appear high on the credibility scale based on these rants.
 
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Your mistake is putting ontology ahead of epistemology. One could always beg the question of how we know about essence or being at all, and hence the general skepticism of essentialist accounts of reality now days.
For an example of a claim of ontology that is put ahead of epistemology see your quote below.

"Actually historical figure," IS AN ONTIC NOT AN EPISTEMIC CLAIM.

Historians generally agree that Christianity is based on an actual historical figure named Jesus of Nazareth.
 
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klutedavid

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Of course I am aware of CF's use of the Nicene Creed to define the minimal beliefs of a Christian, but I wanted to get everybody's ideas for a set of beliefs where removal of any one of them makes the "Christian" label no longer applicable. Also this set of beliefs should be something that the historical Jesus would approve.

I'm asking because I keep thinking I believe in Christianity until I listen to people define Christianity. I continue to pray and think in Christian ways, but I disbelieve almost everything that most people require for Christians to believe.
The minimal belief system that might be referred to as a simple gospel?

Well here are some verses that might help to illustrate what that simple gospel may be.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

John 3:36
He who believes in the Son has eternal life but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.

John 6:40
For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.

John 8:24
I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.

John 11:25
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies."

John 11:26
And everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die.

John 20:31
But these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.

Acts 15:11
But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are.

Acts 16:31
They said, believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved.

Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes.

Romans 6:23
The wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Romans 10:9
That if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

Romans 10:13
Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.

1 Timothy 1:16
Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.

1 Corinthians 15:3-5
For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that He appeared to Peter, then to the twelve.
 
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cloudyday2

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The minimal belief system that might be referred to as a simple gospel?

Well here are some verses that might help to illustrate what that simple gospel may be.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

John 3:36
He who believes in the Son has eternal life but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.

John 6:40
For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.

John 8:24
I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.

John 11:25
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies."

John 11:26
And everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die.

John 20:31
But these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.

Acts 15:11
But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are.

Acts 16:31
They said, believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved.

Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes.

Romans 6:23
The wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Romans 10:9
That if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

Romans 10:13
Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.

1 Timothy 1:16
Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.

1 Corinthians 15:3-5
For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that He appeared to Peter, then to the twelve.
Thanks for the quotes. Some of them might be redundant though. They are not totally redundant, but portions of some quotes are shared. There is probably a way to combine some of them. Also it isn't clear to me what some of the quotes mean. We hear things from childhood and think we understand, but sometimes we don't.
 
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