When to look for the rapture of the church

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
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I am under the belief that 1 Thessalonians 4:13-28 refer directly to the actual coming of Jesus Christ, along with the resurrection of the dead.
We will meet him in the air as he descends to earth, as we also read from Jesus in Mark 13:26-17:
Is that before or after the 7th bowl is poured out into in Revelation 16:17

THE SEVEN BOWLS OF WRATH IN REVELATION STUDY

Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon
G1096 matches the Greek γίνομαι (ginomai), occurs 709 times in 636 verses

Revelation 16:
16 And they together led them into the place, the being called to Hebrew Armageddon.
The Seventh Bowl of Wrath
17 And the seventh Messenger pours out His Bowl upon the air<109>
and came out a great voice out of the Sanctuary of the God saying
"it has become!<γέγονεν/gegonen<1096>" [Revelation 21:3]

That form of G1096 is used in only 2 verses of the Olivet Discourse and 1 other verse in Revelation......

Matthew 24:21
For shall be being then great tribulation such as not has become<γέγονεν<gegonen<1096> from beginning of world till of the now, neither not no may be becoming<genhtai 1096>

Mark 13:19

for they shall be bring those days tribulation,
such as not has become<γέγονεν<gegonen1096> such from beginning of creation which the God creates, till of the now, and not no may be becoming<genhtai<1096>.

Revelation 21:6
and He said to me, 'It has become!<γέγοναν<gegonen<1096>
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End;
I, to him who is thirsting, will give of the fountain of the water of the life freely;
 
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_Dave_

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WRONG!

Jesus prayed, "I ask that you not take them out of this world, but keep them safe from the evil one."

The rapturist prays, "Don't listen to Jesus. You take us out of this world."

Which prayer do you think the Father is more likely to grant?

The Rapture happens AFTER the Tribulation and at physical return of the Saviour to earth as judge.
Hello Monk. virtually no Bible commentaries attribute John17:15 to an end times scenario. Context clearly and unambiguously shows that Jesus is talking about the persecutions from the evil one that those who speak in His name will endure; and to stick with it in order to bless the world with their testimony.
 
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Messenger 3k

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Hmm.. well He that hold back.. restrains the lawless one is still holding him back. Now though I don't look at PRE MID or POST. I have to look at ALL the word. I know I will never see my Fathers wrath. I also know I have ALL power over Satan and every demon every fallen angel.

So.. who is "He/it that holds back the lawless one"? Who has more power then he does? So Satan can not come out in the open as long as the Church is still here.

Yes, that's another scripture usually interpreted wrongly.

Sorry but contrary to popular belief, the restrainer is not the church; it's also not the Holy Spirit.

It's referring to something deeper I cannot speak on.

But the most important thing is you believe and look forward to His coming. Maintain that.
 
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_Dave_

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First of, why restrict yourself to KJV if you're going to misunderstand it?

Look into other versions, the simpler word is precede, meaning to come before.

More so, didn't you notice the context of the following verse?

It says, and the dead in Christ shall rise first; meaning to resurrect, not shall be caught up first; meaning to be raptured.

It uses caught up for both groups of the dead and alive only after the rise first.

Even in the context of the word prevent, it's practically saying the same thing. It's saying the rapture of those who are alive will not in anyway impede that of those who are dead by coming first because the dead will rise first and be raptured all together with those who are alive.

I don't understand what you are getting at. I completely agree. Paul is telling the Thessalonians that at the rapture the dead in Christ who are already with Him in spirit will be reunited with their glorified bodies before the living are caught up and given their glorified bodies.
 
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Messenger 3k

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I don't understand what you are getting at. I completely agree. Paul is telling the Thessalonians that at the rapture the dead in Christ who are already with Him in spirit will be reunited with their glorified bodies before the living are caught up and given their glorified bodies.

But below is what you seemed to be saying.

Paul tells them, "Don't worry, your friends' glorified bodies will go up just before you do."

Remember, the rapture takes place in a twinkling of an eye. So, it is all very instantaneous anyway.

We know from Scripture that to die is to be present with the Lord. The dead in Christ are already there. Their spirits don't need to be snatched up. We also know that during the snatching up we will be given glorified bodies. The Thessalonians were worried that their friends, whose spirits were already with the Lord, would not be united with their glorified bodies. They were afraid their friends would be floating around in heaven as bodiless ghosts or something.

Paul said, don't worry, their glorified bodies will precede you.
 
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Messenger 3k

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I'm sorry. I still don't understand where you think we disagree.

I see the misunderstanding now. You were referring to 1 Corinthians 15:52.

Your choice of words saying will go up just before you do had me confused.

I thought you were referring to them being raptured first.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
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This event....

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. - 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

Will happen at this time....

That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition. - 2 Thessalonians 2:2-3

1. Falling Away - Which is now occurring
2. Son of Perdition - The revealing of the Anti-Christ

I believe when the Anti-Christ makes his scene (which is not that far away) it is time for the rapture prophecy to come true.
Hello rocky.
Where is the "Rapture" showing in Revelation? Thanks
 
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Hank77

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What it does refer to is the utter, great apostasy that will engulf the whole world when the church is snatched up, and the Holy Spirit is no longer a restraining influence.
How can there be a great apostasy when there aren't any Christians to become apostate?
 
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_Dave_

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How can there be a great apostasy when there aren't any Christians to become apostate?
Hello Hank,
First of all, I am of the OSAS persuasion. So, in my view of God's word, born-again, Bible-believing Christians do not "fall away" anyway. So, that definition is off the table as far as I'm concerned.

So, if we look at apostasy in context of 2Thessalonians with that view in mind we see that it represents what Strong's calls, a "defection from truth ... falling away, ... forsake." Commentators also call it a rejection, and denial of the Word.

Believers will be gone at that point, but there will still be ample evidence of God's word left behind in the form of books, audios, videos, etc. As the tribulation begins, there will still be many, many "Christians" sitting in the pews, wondering where everybody went. There will be many, many millions, if not billions, left behind who have heard the Word and rejected it. There will also be tribulation saints, among them the 144,000 Jewish evangelists, witnessing to the lost.

And, although there will be the greatest soul harvest in the history of the world, there will also be the greatest rejection of God by absolutely unrepentant, wicked people.

In my view, that is what is meant by the 2Thess apostasy.

Others may disagree.
 
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Dave L

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This event....

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. - 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

Will happen at this time....

That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition. - 2 Thessalonians 2:2-3

1. Falling Away - Which is now occurring
2. Son of Perdition - The revealing of the Anti-Christ

I believe when the Anti-Christ makes his scene (which is not that far away) it is time for the rapture prophecy to come true.
The rapture happens on the last day after the resurrection. Scripture does not support a pre-trib rapture. It is a false prophecy many bought in to.
 
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