When to look for the rapture of the church

eleos1954

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I am under the belief that 1 Thessalonians 4:13-28 refer directly to the actual coming of Jesus Christ, along with the resurrection of the dead. We will meet him in the air as he descends to earth, as we also read from Jesus in Mark 13:26-17:

"And then they will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. And then he will send out the angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven."

We also read in 2 Thessalonians 2:1,

"Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together with him..."

It is the one and the same event, there is no secret rapture and a seven year tribulation. When Christ comes back, he will gather his people from the four corners and meet them in the air before he descends on the Mt. Olives (Zachariah 14:4-5).

"Then the Lord my God will come, and all the holy ones with him." - Zachariah 14:5

It will be the picture resembling him riding on a donkey, met with palm branches and praises from the surrounding residence, as he is coming toward Jerusalem. This time, he will come with a white horse ready for battle and we will meet with him.

"After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, 'Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!'" - Revelation 7:9-10

...the antichrist is another discussion.

But, I think the disagreement is strong enough to not debate something such as this. The important thing is to be ready and to have our lamps ready for the Bridegroom, regardless of where you stand on these issues.

"After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, 'Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!'" - Revelation 7:9-10

This is in reference to a scene being seen just before the GWTJ, not at Christ's 2nd coming.

Revelation 7

14“Sir,” I answered, “you know.”

So he replied, “These are the ones who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

No donkey ;o)
 
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Hank77

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I've held to this before in the past, but still on the fence as of now.

Also, I don't see the office of 'evangelists' exist anymore. Those were held by men such as Timothy, Mark, Titus, Philip etc, who helped the apostles in their apostolic ministry in spreading the gospel and setting up churches.
I agree, I don't see an office of evangelist either. The closest would be missionaries who go to areas where there aren't any Christian churches.
 
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_Dave_

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This is important stuff as we are living in the time of the great falling away and the anti-Christ could make his appearance any day.

That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition. - 2 Thessalonians 2:2-3

1. Falling Away - Which is now occurring
2. Son of Perdition - The revealing of the Anti-Christ

Biblically speaking... The day of Christ can occur any day now!

Rocky, all I can say is that the falling away referenced in 2Thess does not apply to the general rejection of Christ that we see today. Truth be told, there are still millions of people who believe, and have some sort of relationship or another with God/Christ.

What it does refer to is the utter, great apostasy that will engulf the whole world when the church is snatched up, and the Holy Spirit is no longer a restraining influence. Right after the snatching, there will be no believers at all left on the earth; which, hasn't happened yet, obviously.

Others disagree.
 
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devin553344

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This event....

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. - 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

Will happen at this time....

That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition. - 2 Thessalonians 2:2-3

1. Falling Away - Which is now occurring
2. Son of Perdition - The revealing of the Anti-Christ

I believe when the Anti-Christ makes his scene (which is not that far away) it is time for the rapture prophecy to come true.

I wouldn't hold your breath.
 
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eleos1954

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Rocky, all I can say is that the falling away referenced in 2Thess does not apply to the general rejection of Christ that we see today. Truth be told, there are still millions of people who believe, and have some sort of relationship or another with God/Christ.

What it does refer to is the utter, great apostasy that will engulf the whole world when the church is snatched up, and the Holy Spirit is no longer a restraining influence. Right after the snatching, there will be no believers at all left on the earth; which, hasn't happened yet, obviously.

Others disagree.

There is also a global financial (may take place in stages) event(s) that needs to take place before His return. When this happens then I believe His return is very very close indeed.

Revelation

Revelation 13:17 King James Version (KJV)
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
 
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rockytopva

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The advantage of believing this way....

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. - 1 John 3:2-3
 
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Maria Billingsley

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I believe when the Anti-Christ makes his scene (which is not that far away) it is time for the rapture prophecy to come true.
There are many anti-Christs. It is anyone who does not believe in Jesus Christ of Nazareth. There is however a beast who's number is 666 and that can be attributed to Nero.
 
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AbbaLove

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Rocky, all I can say is that the falling away referenced in 2Thess does not apply to the general rejection of Christ that we see today. Truth be told, there are still millions of people who believe, and have some sort of relationship or another with God/Christ.

What it does refer to is the utter, great apostasy that will engulf the whole world when the church is snatched up, and the Holy Spirit is no longer a restraining influence. Right after the snatching, there will be no believers at all left on the earth; which, hasn't happened yet, obviously.

Others disagree.
You and Rocky aren't that far apart. The reason he possibly isn't replying to your post(s) of late is possibly because he basically agrees and has no good reason to refute your latest post(s). FWIW, your posts represent the beliefs of many Believers and aren't easy to disprove as impossible or improbable.

Me thinks Rocky may once have been a Baptist (shhhhh), and thus Pre-Trib Rapture leaning. Those that are "still alive" are caught up with "them" (and with Him) in the clouds and will "always be with the LORD forever" (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17). Thus, why would the saints turn around and go back to the immoral earth where "evil is good and good is evil" (before the Tribulation). So, that's one widely held scenario ... then there's the Post-Trib Rapture which has seemingly gained more support toward the last of the 20th Century and into the 21st Century.

The Lord descends as far as the clouds to greet the ascending saints. His second coming isn't until later when He touches down on the Mount of Olives ...

"Men of Galilee," they said, "why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven." (Acts 1:11)
On thing we can all agree on is that progressive socialism is at our doorstep which means YKW. When the "Rapture" does occur the world will be so immoral that those left will possibly say, Good Riddance! (how sad).

Isaiah 5:20
Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness; Who substitute bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!
Matthew 6:22-23
22 The eye is the lamp of the body; so then if your eye is clear, your whole body will be full of light.
23 But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light that is in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!​
 
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Just The Facts

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Hello Dave

Sorry I just want to be sure I understand you.

So This

[31] and he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. [32] "From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near. [33] So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates. [34] Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away till all these things take place. [35] Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away. [36]"But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only.[37] As were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of man. [38] For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark,[39] and they did not know until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of man.[40] Then two men will be in the field; one is taken and one is left.[41] Two women will be grinding at the mill; one is taken and one is left.

Is not the same as this

[14] For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. [15] For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, shall not precede those who have fallen asleep. [16] For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel's call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first;
[17] then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so we shall always be with the Lord.
 
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Just The Facts

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Hi Rocky

Paul Disagrees with you on your falling away point. He says it has already started in his day.

[7] For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way.

That is why we have a harlot at the end. Started as the True Church and then harlot'd itself for money and possession power and prestige.
 
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Here's the thing,

I can understand how many would love the idea of escaping the great tribulation. I would too. But it shouldn't cause me to take scriptures and turn it upside down.

I don't really do well with classifications so I'm not a pretribber, posttribber or whatever other classifications exist, the only classification I need is being a child of God and as such, I let the Holy Spirit teach me all things. So I'll try to simplify this as much as possible.

Scripture is clear enough as to that fact that the rapture occurs on the same day as Christ's second coming,

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17,

"According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever." (NIV)

Notice that it says Christians alive will in no way be raptured before the dead. So on whatever timeline you decide to place your rapture theory, you have to include the resurrection of the dead. Fact 1 established.

Notice also that Christ comes on that day. So factor this into your theory. Fact 2 established.

So have you decided to place the rapture somewhere before the great tribulation (the last three and half years)? Well, Paul says you can't.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4,

"Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction." (NIV)

KJV uses the word, falling away but that rendering can be a bit confusing. However NIV uses the simpler word, rebellion. Because the rebellion marks the falling away. GNT has it as final rebellion. Meaning the antichrist's rebellion which reveals who he truly is, mid tribulation, where he exalts himself above God with the abomination of desolation.

The last highlighted part is practically saying, that day will not come until the rebellion which reveals who the antichrist truly is occurs, that is, mid-tribulation.

Daniel 8:13,
"...How long will it take for the vision to be fulfilled the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, the rebellion that causes desolation, the surrender of the sanctuary and the trampling underfoot of the Lord’s people?" (NIV)

So you're forced to place the rapture somewhere after mid-tribulation? So you're possibly saying immediately after the abomination of desolation, mid-tribulation, the rapture would occur?

Let's analyze this a bit shall we? If Christians are raptured at that time, who then would go through the great tribulation? The newly saved believers? Are they the holy people to be trampled underfoot in Daniel and Revelation? So why did scriptures bother to warn us about such times in Daniel, Revelation and Isaiah to mention but a few? Even the pseudepigraphical literatures and apocrypha pointed to such times. What was the point if we would escape them? Where all these meant for the new subsequent believers? Mind you the reason they're left behind is that they aren't saved at the time of the rapture. So they most definitely still aren't saved now, given that we aren't mid-tribulation yet and the rapture hasn't occurred. Therefore they most likely know little or nothing about what's coming for them. And by the time they're saved after the rapture, they barely have time to go through scriptures to know what they ought to know and the mark of the beast is already upon a bunch of ignorant Christians?

Common people! All these should already sound disconnected by now.

Still persist? Okay.

If the rapture occurs at that time then you have to include fact 1; resurrection has to occur on the same day as well.

But what of the new believers who are saved after the rapture, refuse the mark of the beast and are killed in the process? Don't they get their own resurrection? They do? Okay. So it would appear that the resurrection that occurs on the rapture, mid-tribulation, is the first resurrection. And the resurrection involving newly saved Christians who refused the mark of the beast afterwards is the second resurrection? Right?

So why this:

Revelation 20:4-6,
"...And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years." (NIV)

It clearly states that the resurrection involving those who refused the mark of the beast is the first resurrection. If that is the first resurrection, it meant there is no other resurrection before it. Right? No? Still persist?

Okay, if we include fact 2, which of those resurrections does Christ show up? You tell me because I don't know.

Again, common people! Isn't this all confusing by now? Is God the author of confusion?

"For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints." 1 Cor. 14:33

So you still decide to place the rapture somewhere in between the great tribulation; somewhere in between the last three and half years?

I can't even address that because it's just plain ridiculous.
 
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_Dave_

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Hello Dave

Sorry I just want to be sure I understand you.

So This

[31] and he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. [32] "From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near. [33] So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates. [34] Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away till all these things take place. [35] Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away. [36]"But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only.[37] As were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of man. [38] For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark,[39] and they did not know until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of man.[40] Then two men will be in the field; one is taken and one is left.[41] Two women will be grinding at the mill; one is taken and one is left.

Is not the same as this

[14] For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. [15] For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, shall not precede those who have fallen asleep. [16] For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel's call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first;
[17] then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so we shall always be with the Lord.

Correct.

The previous verse, Matthew 24:30 is the giveaway. "And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall ALL THE TRIBES of the earth mourn, and they SHALL SEE the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."

During the snatching up, only believers will see Him. During the second coming all left alive on the earth after the Great Tribulation will see Him. Two different comings.
 
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keras

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I can understand how many would love the idea of escaping the great tribulation. I would too. But it shouldn't cause me to take scriptures and turn it upside down.
The whole idea of a 'rapture to heaven' of the Church, is a deception and a false doctrine. Believed by many who see it as a easy way out of forthcoming trials and testing's.
As you rightly say; 1 Thess 4:17 happens at the Return of Jesus. Confirmed by Matthew 24:30-31, as a gathering of His people to where He is and will be for the next 1000 years; on earth.

Even beloved preachers like David Jeremiah, who actually do preach Salvation, but who also teach the 'rapture', are as 'ravening wolves among the flock' and have led many to a wrong belief about what God has planned for His people in these end times.
 
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_Dave_

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Here's the thing,

I can understand how many would love the idea of escaping the great tribulation. I would too. But it shouldn't cause me to take scriptures and turn it upside down.

I don't really do well with classifications so I'm not a pretribber, posttribber or whatever other classifications exist, the only classification I need is being a child of God and as such, I let the Holy Spirit teach me all things. So I'll try to simplify this as much as possible.

Scripture is clear enough as to that fact that the rapture occurs on the same day as Christ's second coming,

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17,

"According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever." (NIV)

Notice that it says Christians alive will in no way be raptured before the dead. So on whatever timeline you decide to place your rapture theory, you have to include the resurrection of the dead. Fact 1 established.

Notice also that Christ comes on that day. So factor this into your theory. Fact 2 established.

So have you decided to place the rapture somewhere before the great tribulation (the last three and half years)? Well, Paul says you can't.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4,

"Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction." (NIV)

KJV uses the word, falling away but that rendering can be a bit confusing. However NIV uses the simpler word, rebellion. Because the rebellion marks the falling away. GNT has it as final rebellion. Meaning the antichrist's rebellion which reveals who he truly is, mid tribulation, where he exalts himself above God with the abomination of desolation.

The last highlighted part is practically saying, that day will not come until the rebellion which reveals who the antichrist truly is occurs, that is, mid-tribulation.

Daniel 8:13,
"...How long will it take for the vision to be fulfilled the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, the rebellion that causes desolation, the surrender of the sanctuary and the trampling underfoot of the Lord’s people?" (NIV)

So you're forced to place the rapture somewhere after mid-tribulation? So you're possibly saying immediately after the abomination of desolation, mid-tribulation, the rapture would occur?

Let's analyze this a bit shall we? If Christians are raptured at that time, who then would go through the great tribulation? The newly saved believers? Are they the holy people to be trampled underfoot in Daniel and Revelation? So why did scriptures bother to warn us about such times in Daniel, Revelation and Isaiah to mention but a few? Even the pseudepigraphical literatures and apocrypha pointed to such times. What was the point if we would escape them? Where all these meant for the new subsequent believers? Mind you the reason they're left behind is that they aren't saved at the time of the rapture. So they most definitely still aren't saved now, given that we aren't mid-tribulation yet and the rapture hasn't occurred. Therefore they most likely know little or nothing about what's coming for them. And by the time they're saved after the rapture, they barely have time to go through scriptures to know what they ought to know and the mark of the beast is already upon a bunch of ignorant Christians?

Common people! All these should already sound disconnected by now.

Still persist? Okay.

If the rapture occurs at that time then you have to include fact 1; resurrection has to occur on the same day as well.

But what of the new believers who are saved after the rapture, refuse the mark of the beast and are killed in the process? Don't they get their own resurrection? They do? Okay. So it would appear that the resurrection that occurs on the rapture, mid-tribulation, is the first resurrection. And the resurrection involving newly saved Christians who refused the mark of the beast afterwards is the second resurrection? Right?

So why this:

Revelation 20:4-6,
"...And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years." (NIV)

It clearly states that the resurrection involving those who refused the mark of the beast is the first resurrection. If that is the first resurrection, it meant there is no other resurrection before it. Right? No? Still persist?

Okay, if we include fact 2, which of those resurrections does Christ show up? You tell me because I don't know.

Again, common people! Isn't this all confusing by now? Is God the author of confusion?

"For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints." 1 Cor. 14:33

So you still decide to place the rapture somewhere in between the great tribulation; somewhere in between the last three and half years?

I can't even address that because it's just plain ridiculous.

A couple of things:

The Day of the Lord throughout Scripture always refers to Christ's second coming. Period. Not the rapture; which is a different coming. A clear understanding of a verse's place on a list delineating the two helps clear up a ton of confusion.

And, during his stay with them Paul taught the Thessalonians about the rapture. But, they had some concerns. So, Paul's first letter addresses those concerns. In 1Thess 4:15 etc., Paul is comforting those who were afraid that their saved friends who died after Paul left would miss the rapture. Paul tells them, "Don't worry, your friends' glorified bodies will go up just before you do."

Remember, the rapture takes place in a twinkling of an eye. So, it is all very instantaneous anyway.

We know from Scripture that to die is to be present with the Lord. The dead in Christ are already there. Their spirits don't need to be snatched up. We also know that during the snatching up we will be given glorified bodies. The Thessalonians were worried that their friends, whose spirits were already with the Lord, would not be united with their glorified bodies. They were afraid their friends would be floating around in heaven as bodiless ghosts or something.

Paul said, don't worry, their glorified bodies will precede you.

Continuing ...

So, 2Thessalonians is Paul's comforting those who think the Day of the Lord has already happened, and why are they still here, why haven't they become raptured?

Their mistake was thinking that the current persecutions was the beginning of the Great Tribulation. They think Paul must have misled them. "We're suffering persecutions. Why are we still here, Paul?" See? The Thessalonians were fully informed and completely believed the pre-tribulation rapture that Paul had taught them.

Paul tells them not to be alarmed by false teaching. That day (the Great Tribulation) won't occur until the great rebellion of the left-behind unbelievers, and the antichrist is revealed.

Why does Paul tell them not to be alarmed? Because he had already taught them previously, and reiterated it in his first letter, that they will be caught up before all that happens anyway. Otherwise, why would they have been so disturbed when they falsely thought they were getting dragged into the Great Tribulation?

Added in Edit: Others disagree.
 
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Paul tells them, "Don't worry, your friends' glorified bodies will go up just before you do."

Remember, the rapture takes place in a twinkling of an eye. So, it is all very instantaneous anyway.

We know from Scripture that to die is to be present with the Lord. The dead in Christ are already there. Their spirits don't need to be snatched up. We also know that during the snatching up we will be given glorified bodies. The Thessalonians were worried that their friends, whose spirits were already with the Lord, would not be united with their glorified bodies. They were afraid their friends would be floating around in heaven as bodiless ghosts or something.

Paul said, don't worry, their glorified bodies will precede you.

Goodness gracious!

What scripture are you reading?

Where in 1 Thessalonians 4 did Paul state that the dead will be raptured before living Christians?
 
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_Dave_

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Goodness gracious!

What scripture are you reading?

Where in 1 Thessalonians 4 did Paul state that the dead will be raptured before living Christians?

You already had it in your post #32.
1Thess 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
 
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Monk Brendan

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I believe when the Anti-Christ makes his scene (which is not that far away) it is time for the rapture prophecy to come true.
WRONG!

Jesus prayed, "I ask that you not take them out of this world, but keep them safe from the evil one."

The rapturist prays, "Don't listen to Jesus. You take us out of this world."

Which prayer do you think the Father is more likely to grant?

The Rapture happens AFTER the Tribulation and at physical return of the Saviour to earth as judge.
 
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Messenger 3k

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You already had it in your post #32.
1Thess 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

First of, why restrict yourself to KJV if you're going to misunderstand it?

Look into other versions, the simpler word is precede, meaning to come before.

More so, didn't you notice the context of the following verse?

It says, and the dead in Christ shall rise first; meaning to resurrect, not shall be caught up first; meaning to be raptured.

It uses caught up for both groups of the dead and alive only after the rise first.

Even in the context of the word prevent, it's practically saying the same thing. It's saying the rapture of those who are alive will not in anyway impede that of those who are dead by coming first because the dead will rise first and be raptured all together with those who are alive.

 
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Blade

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Hmm.. well He that hold back.. restrains the lawless one is still holding him back. Now though I don't look at PRE MID or POST. I have to look at ALL the word. I know I will never see my Fathers wrath. I also know I have ALL power over Satan and every demon every fallen angel.

So.. who is "He/it that holds back the lawless one"? Who has more power then he does? So Satan can not come out in the open as long as the Church is still here. Sorry.. JESUS said.. behold I gave you power....and over ALL the power of the enemy. Nothing shall by any means hurt you. Greater is He that is in you then he that's in the world.

So.. I always am ready NOW! I was not promised tomorrow as the word says. So I am always ready every moment I live. And when He/it is not restrainer the lawless one.. I wont be here.

Oh.. "fallen away". What that word also means is "departure". Could be something like.. what was taught/foretold in some Jewish schools where Israel would no longer listen to Gods laws. Like the Jewish people not hearing the gospel...rejecting. WHO was he talking to? Is it REALLY about just YOU the Christian/Chrisitans? :)

If you take it as "fallen away".. then that's not even close. More are getting saved then every before. I LOVE going back to 2015 where in ONE MOMENT I saw over 1MILLION come to Christ. Did ya read about that? STILL happening!

What was written BEFORE what was he talking about? CONTEXT
 
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