Over all Look At the Book Of Daniel

Just The Facts · Feb 19, 2019

Hello All

It has become obvious to me from reading posts in the various threads that most people see Daniel as a series of loosely or unconnected prophecies. Nothing could be further from the truth.

The King has the Dream in Daniel 2: Daniel interprets the King’s dream but is amazed and puzzled and he does not understand. Over the next many years life is good but Daniel is still puzzled by the four great Kingdoms.

The Book of Daniel is a series of prophecies in which Daniel keeps looking for clarity but finds none. Each new vision is God’s attempt to explain the previous vision. So 8 tries to explain parts of seven 9 tries to explain parts of 8 and 11 and 12 try to explain 9. 8. And 7.

Just look at the over all theme here. He has the dream of Daniel 7: as an answer to his curiosity about the four kingdoms.

But that doesn’t help poor Daniel understand at all in fact the chapter ends with

[28] "Here is the end of the matter. As for me, Daniel, my thoughts greatly alarmed me, and my color changed; but I kept the matter in my mind."

You see to Daniel, in his time, Media Persia was a very powerful Empire that he knew very well. So The Bear of Daniel 7: Or the Second Kingdom to rule the land was no mystery to him.

The third Beast from chapter 7: was a mystery though. Daniel wanted to know who this Leopard was that had four heads.

Chapter 8: is the Answer to his question ……………but poor Daniel ……….it seems the answer only served to scare him and mystify him even more. He ends the Chapter with

[27] And I, Daniel, was overcome and lay sick for some days; then I rose and went about the king's business; but I was appalled by the vision and did not understand it.

Daniel is appalled rise up against the Saints destroy the Jews and prosper he will even rise up against the Prince of Princes. No wonder he is appalled!

So Now Daniel asks for clarification because he still does not understand. He wants to know when all this will happen when will the Prince of Princes come??????when will be the end of Jerusalem's desolations and punishment…………. as the 70 Years of the prophecy of Jeremiah was almost over. He wanted to know what every Jewish person wanted to know. He wanted to know when the promise to Abraham and Isaac and Jacob be fulfilled. The promise to The House of Judah and the House of Jacob or Joseph / Ephraim.

Jer 33:24: Considerest thou not what this people have spoken, saying, The two families which the LORD hath chosen, he hath even cast them off? thus they have despised my people, that they should be no more a nation before them. 25: Thus saith the LORD; If my covenant be not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth; 26: Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob, and David my servant, so that I will not take any of his seed to be rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob:

So Daniel prays and submits supplication and gets the prophecy of the 70 weeks of years or 490 years. This is chapter 9:

Well once again Daniel is just further confused he needs details of this 490 Years until the Promise is fulfilled. We read in Chapter 10 Daniel once again asking for understanding. Praying and fasting for many days. He is still confounded by the visions he has had. He understands Jerusalem will be slowly built and then destroyed. But How will all this happen. He is still appalled not just one desolation of the Temple BUT MANY DESOLATIONS

Dan 10: 8: Therefore I was left alone, and saw this great vision, and there remained no strength in me: for my comeliness was turned in me into corruption, and I retained no strength.

The Answer to Daniel's Question is Chapter 11 and 12 : in Chapter 11: Daniel is given very specific events that span from that time to the Time of the end and the first resurrection. It is laid out as a series of events that start of with sometimes decades in gaps and as it get further from Daniel's time the gaps get larger only dealing with the most important events.

Chapter 12 is a continuation of Chapter 11 in which Daniel is told of all the Time frames that would be in play.

Daniel Still does not get it and is told NO ONE would understand until the last days.

And so ends the book of Daniel.

It is not a series of dissociated visions, it is one after another trying to explain the previous vision.

Douggg · Feb 19, 2019

Just The Facts said:
but poor Daniel

It is not good to say of Daniel - "as poor Daniel", when God says otherwise of Daniel.

In Ezekiel 28:3, God is mocking the prince of Tyrus, code name for the revealed man of sin.

3 Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee:

Daniel was exceptionally wise, but did not have all the information needed to resolve everything because he was not living in the endtimes. And also without the book of Revelation - no one can understand completely the prophecy's and visions in the book of Daniel.

What made Daniel exceptionally wise - was that he prayed to God because he knew God was the One who could help him.

LittleLambofJesus · Feb 19, 2019

Just The Facts said:
Hello All

It has become obvious to me from reading posts in the various threads that most people see Daniel as a series of loosely or unconnected prophecies. Nothing could be further from the truth.

The story of Joseph being taken captive to Egypt is fairly similar to Daniel.
Pharaoh also used him to interpret dreams. Just thought this was interesting.

Gen 39:1
Now Joseph had been taken down to Egypt. And Potiphar, an officer of Pharaoh, captain of the guard, an Egyptian, bought him from the Ishmaelites who had taken him down there.

Gen 41:8
Now it came to pass in the morning that his spirit was troubled, and he sent and called for all the magicians of Egypt and all its wise men. And Pharaoh told them his dreams, but there was no one who could interpret them for Pharaoh.
Gen 41:25 Then Joseph said to Pharaoh, “The dreams of Pharaoh are one; God has shown Pharaoh what He is about to do

Just The Facts · Feb 20, 2019

Hi Dougg

You mistake my saying poor Daniel as a Insult or something....not at all I just meant he just kept getting more horrified with each vision and more confused. Even though they were being explained to him. For us it is easy hind sight is 20/20.

First you are told there will be four kingdoms not that the Jews will rule the world. That the fourth Kingdom will trample the saints. Then you are told your city and temple will be desecrated over and over again during a 490 year period. Then you are told just how that will all happen then you are told to go on your way because you can never understand.

DaDad · Feb 23, 2019

Just The Facts said:
... Daniel ...

Well you did get ONE thing correct, or maybe TWO: " ... the book of Daniel ...".

Although you provide MANY opinions, these are NOT Facts.

As such, you might consider changing your screen name to "Just My Opinion", -- to be more accurate!

So your problems begin fairly early when you assume that the Chapter 2 FIVE World Empire = the Chapter 7 Four Beasts. And I understand your dilemma, because when I was in First Grade, I insisted that FIVE = FOUR, but was overruled and lost the argument, even though I believe I can prove it mathematically. She just wouldn't hear of it.

So sorry for the bad news, 'cause I'm with ya buddy ...

DaDad

BABerean2 · Feb 23, 2019

Just The Facts said:
It is not a series of dissociated visions, it is one after another trying to explain the previous vision.

Daniel Chapter 9: Dr. Kelly Varner

.

Douggg · Feb 23, 2019

Just The Facts said:
Hi Dougg

You mistake my saying poor Daniel as a Insult or something....not at all I just meant he just kept getting more horrified with each vision and more confused. Even though they were being explained to him. For us it is easy hind sight is 20/20.

First you are told there will be four kingdoms not that the Jews will rule the world. That the fourth Kingdom will trample the saints. Then you are told your city and temple will be desecrated over and over again during a 490 year period. Then you are told just how that will all happen then you are told to go on your way because you can never understand.

But Daniel is told he would be resurrected. And that his death would be natural and a time of rest for him.

Daniel 12:13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

Daniel 9:23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.

So Daniel was greatly beloved - not poor Daniel. He was able to understand what he had been praying over, once he was given the vision, of the 70 weeks.

We should say "blessed" Daniel. God chose him to have the visions and visitations by the angel(s) in the visions. And protected in the lion's den. Daniel surely walked with God, the days of his life.

Just The Facts · Feb 23, 2019

Ah Dougg

You still dont get it ..............I am saying poor because he was terrified and confounded. You know like when a baby cries ...poor baby....etc etc of course he was loved and will be raised.....at the first resurrection of the saints.

Hi Dadad

Wow you cant get anything right can you.

See you got that wrong too................I am not saying I have all the facts.......I am saying like Joe Friday....Just the Facts Mam

In other words I do not want your endless speculation I just want scripture.

Douggg · Feb 23, 2019

Just The Facts said:
Ah Dougg

You still dont get it ..............I am saying poor because he was terrified and confounded. You know like when a baby cries ...poor baby....etc etc of course he was loved and will be raised.....at the first resurrection of the saints.

stick with what the bible says of Daniel. You are casting him in a bad light. John, Daniel, Paul are our friends, and family in Christ.

keras · Feb 23, 2019

The Prophesies of Daniel

Daniel 2:20-22 Blessed be the Lord’s Name [Jesus] from age to age, for to Him belong wisdom and power. He changes seasons and times, He deposes and sets up kings. He gives wisdom

to the wise and knowledge to those with discernment, revealing deep mysteries: in Him there is light and understanding. Proverbs 8:12-29

Daniel 2:31-33 In your dream, your majesty, you saw a great image. The head of the image was of fine gold, its chest and arms of silver, its belly and thighs of bronze, its legs of iron and its feet of part iron, part clay.

The Assyrian Kingdom – [Sargon]

Daniel 7:4 The first beast was like a lion with eagles wings, then its wings were removed and it stood on two feet like a human. It was given the mind of a human.

[This kingdom had already passed by the time of Nebuchadnezzar’s dream. It conquered and sent into exile the ten Northern tribes of Israel]

The Babylonian Kingdom – [Nebuchadnezzar]

Daniel 2:38 You; king Nebuchadnezzar, are that head of gold.

Daniel 7:5 The second beast was like a bear, it raised itself up on one side and it had three ribs in its mouth. The command was given: Get up and gorge yourself on flesh. [The Babylonian conquest of the known world, including Judah]

The Media/Persian Kingdom [King Cyrus]

Daniel 2:32 & 39a...its chest and arms of silver...After you another kingdom will arise that will be inferior to yours

Daniel 8:3-4 & 20 The ram with two horns, Persia and Media.

The Macedonian [Greek] Kingdom –. [Alexander the Great]

Daniel 2:32 & 39b ...its belly and thighs of bronze....Next a third kingdom of bronze will rule over the whole earth.

Daniel 7:6 The third beast was like a leopard with four wings like a bird, it had four heads and was given authority to rule. [Alexander’s conquest of the known world]

Daniel 8:5-8 & 20-21 The defeat of the Babylonian Empire, by Alexander. Daniel 11:2

Daniel 8:9-14 & 22 After Alexander’s death, four kingdoms are formed.

Daniel 11:3-4 One of those kings, Antiochus Epiphanes, succeeded in conquering the holy Land and he desecrated the Temple. 2 Maccabees 5:13-20 Then Judas Maccabaeus defeated him. 2 Maccabees 8:16-24 Then they rededicated the Temple. 2 Maccabees 10:1-8 The 2300 evenings and mornings; actually 1150 days, was the time between the desecration and rededication of the Temple, circa 167BC to 164BC. This is a precursor to what will happen in the last days.

Daniel 11:5-20 This is a description of other historical battles and alliances.

The Roman Empire – [Julius Caesar]
Daniel 2:32-33 & 40 Finally there will be a fourth kingdom, strong as iron, it will dominate all the others, but as its legs represent, this will be a divided kingdom – its people will be a mixture, it will not remain united. [The Western and Eastern Roman Empires]

Daniel 7:7a & 23 The fourth beast, fearsome and very powerful with great iron teeth, crushed and devoured its victims, then trampled what was left.

Daniel 9:26 After sixty two weeks, [434 years] the anointed Prince, [Jesus] will be removed and the army [of Rome] will destroy the city and the Temple. [As fulfilled in 70AD.]

A Last Days resurgence of Rome – [led by the Anti Christ]

Daniel 2:33 & 42-43...its feet of part iron and part clay....

Daniel 7:7b-8 ... the fourth beast had ten horns, another horn grew up and uprooted three of the ten. That other horn was very imposing and spoke with great power. As I watched this horn waged war on the holy ones and defeated them. Rev 17:12-13, Rev 13:5-8

Daniel 7:23-24 The explanation is this: This fourth kingdom will take over the whole earth, [The One World Government] The ten horns signify the ten divisions of the world, but another man will arise and defeat three of the first leaders.

Daniel 11:21 Another king will come, a person not worthy of recognition, but he will seize power by intrigue and cunning. [a clever and charismatic man]

Daniel 8:23-25 In the last days, when sin is at its height, a powerful king and a master of strategy will arise. He will succeed in whatever he does and will take control of the nations and the holy people. [all the faithful Christians, gathered in all of the holy Land. Revelation 13:7] By cunning and deceit, he will destroy many when they felt secure and did not expect it. He will challenge the ‘Prince of princes’, [the Lord] yet he will be defeated, but not by human hand.

Daniel 9:27 The prince, [The world leader, descended from Rome] will make a treaty with many, [that is: not all of the Christians] for one week, [that is: seven years] but at the mid point, he will put a stop to the sacrifices and offerings. [in the new Temple] He will place an ‘abomination’ there, then in the end what has been decreed will come on him.

Daniel 7:25 He will defy God and take control of the holy people for 3½ years. [This is the ‘beast’ of Revelation 13:1-8. The One World leader receives a ‘mortal blow’ and his body is taken over by Satan, commencing the ‘forty two months’ Tribulation period]

Daniel 11:22-45 His army will be victorious and a leader of the Covenant people will be killed. The military forces of the South will be defeated and he will invade the Middle East, but ships of the Western nations will oppose him, so he will turn back. In the holy Land, he will vent his fury against the people who hold to the Covenant, but will show favour to those who forsake it by believing his promises. His soldiers will desecrate the Temple, setting up an ‘abomination of desolation’. Those of the Lord’s people [Christians] who remain faithful to the Lord, will be resolute and take action. Wise leaders of the nation will guide their people, though for a time some may be killed or captured. They will receive a little help, as many who join them are insincere. This is a period of testing, of refining and purification, for the end is yet to be; at the appointed time. Daniel 7:9, Daniel 8:22, Rev. 13:8

Daniel 11:36-45 This powerful world ruler will do as he pleases, he will promote himself as god, uttering terrible blasphemies. Things will go well for him until the time of wrath is completed. [The Tribulation] Near the end, the leader of a Southern confederation will attempt to attack him, so he storms out in full force, sweeping all before him, including the holy Land. He will take control of all Arabia and take their treasure. Then, alarmed by rumours from the North and East, he will hurriedly go back to Israel and camp in the valley of Megiddo, where he will meet his end. Daniel 7:11, Revelation 19:17-21

The Kingdom of Jesus – 2 Samuel 22:32

Daniel 2:34-35 & 44-45 I saw a supernatural Rock that smashed the statue, it blew it away like chaff. Then that Rock became a huge mountain that filled the whole earth. God will set up a Kingdom that will be supreme over all other kingdoms and it will endure forever.

Daniel 7:13-14 & 26-27 The Return of Jesus for His Millennium reign. Gods judgement is against the Anti Christ and his kingdom is abolished. The governance of the whole world is given to the holy people of God. Revelation 20:6

Daniel 12:1-4 At the end of that time, [the Tribulation] Michael, the Archangel of Israel will appear, he will deliver the Lord’s people – everyone whose name is written in the Book of Life. Many of the dead will rise, some to eternal life, some to eternal abhorrence. The wise leaders, those who guided the people on the true path, will shine like stars forever.

But you, Daniel, keep this book sealed until the time of the end. Many will try, but will not succeed to gain this knowledge.

Daniel 12:5-10 I asked: How long until the end of these things? It will be for 3½ years, [1260 days] when the holy people regain their strength. I asked: What will the outcome of all this be? Go your way, Daniel, for these prophesies are to be kept secret until the time of the end. Many people will be purified and made righteous, but the godless will keep on in their wickedness and none of them will understand. Daniel 8:22

Daniel 12:11-12 From the time the Anti Christ sets up the ‘abomination of desolation’, there will be 1290 days. Blessed are those who see the completion of 1335 days!
Reference: REB, NIV, KJV. some verses condensed.

Also in Daniel 3:19-27, the story about the three men in the fiery furnace, is for us today.
We will face the soon to happen; Lord's Day of fiery wrath, we must stand firm in our faith and trust for the Lord's protection. Isaiah 41:13, Isaiah 43:2, Psalms 18:3, Jeremiah 17:7-8, 2 Thessalonians 1:7, +

Just The Facts · Feb 23, 2019

Hi Dougg

I am not putting him in a bad light at all. I fail to see why you think so. It is an expression of sympathy for how he felt. Which he states more than once he felt sick, scared and confused. Are you saying I should not feel sorry for how he felt?

DaDad · Feb 23, 2019

DaDad said:
... your problems begin fairly early when you assume that the Chapter 2 FIVE World Empire = the Chapter 7 Four Beasts. And I understand your dilemma, because when I was in First Grade, I insisted that FIVE = FOUR, but was overruled and lost the argument, even though I believe I can prove it mathematically. She just wouldn't hear of it.

So sorry for the bad news, 'cause I'm with ya buddy ...

Just The Facts said:
Hi Dadad
... I do not want your endless speculation I just want scripture.

Yeah, pretty funny. -- You wouldn't believe Scripture if Jesus HIMSELF read it to ya! But for the sake of argument, here's what Jesus said, (being that Jesus is the WORD):

Daniel 2:35 ... the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver, and the gold = 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE
Daniel 2:45 ... the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver, and the gold = 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE

So there ya go. There are FIVE world empires, for which the "CLAY" is a "divided kingdom", as evidenced by today's THREE Superpowers and a Fourth UNITED NATIONS.

TRUE Facts are hard to chew, and harder to digest,
DaDad

Just The Facts · Feb 23, 2019

Hi Dadad

DaDad said:
Yeah, pretty funny. -- You wouldn't believe Scripture if Jesus HIMSELF read it to ya! But for the sake of argument, here's what Jesus said, (being that Jesus is the WORD):

Wow that is special.......Not sure why you are on to me about this. I never said anything about five and four that was someone else....................Personally I have always believed the Feet of Clay and Iron were not the same kingdom as the legs of Iron. However I have always seen that as the deadly wound healed. But please feel free to judge me and try and belittle me any time you wish

Rodron · Feb 24, 2019

Hi Guys, Rodron new here, this has been interesting. I can feel the tenseness in your posts. I if I can just ask a question? There are many differing beliefs about the end times we must wonder why. How did so many ideas and doctrines come about? Why are there so many different beliefs? Who is right? What is the truth? What is deception? How do we know if we have been deceived? Have we deceived ourselves? Is our beliefs based on traditions and interpretations of man passed down hundreds of years and have painted preconceived paintings in the mind that hides the truth even if it is plainly in view. When Jesus went out of the temple and his disciples were so amazed over the buildings he told them not one stone will be left standing on another. Jesus took them up to the Mount of Olives and they asked him what would be the sign of thy coming and the end of the world. The very first thing Jesus said to the disciples; Take heed that no man deceives you. WOW! Do you think that was a hint, or what, because the next thing he said was, for many shall come in my name saying I am Christ and shall deceive many? I will not agree or disagree with what has been said. We must be sure in our heart that what we believe is from the word of God and understanding given by the Holy Spirit through our own study and prayer and not from man. If we truly search for the truth, the Bible will interpret the Bible not man. with love Rodron.

Douggg · Feb 24, 2019

Rodron said:
Hi Guys, Rodron new here, this has been interesting. I can feel the tenseness in your posts. I if I can just ask a question? There are many differing beliefs about the end times we must wonder why. How did so many ideas and doctrines come about? Why are there so many different beliefs? Who is right? What is the truth? What is deception? How do we know if we have been deceived? Have we deceived ourselves? Is our beliefs based on traditions and interpretations of man passed down hundreds of years and have painted preconceived paintings in the mind that hides the truth even if it is plainly in view. When Jesus went out of the temple and his disciples were so amazed over the buildings he told them not one stone will be left standing on another. Jesus took them up to the Mount of Olives and they asked him what would be the sign of thy coming and the end of the world. The very first thing Jesus said to the disciples; Take heed that no man deceives you. WOW! Do you think that was a hint, or what, because the next thing he said was, for many shall come in my name saying I am Christ and shall deceive many? I will not agree or disagree with what has been said. We must be sure in our heart that what we believe is from the word of God and understanding given by the Holy Spirit through our own study and prayer and not from man. If we truly search for the truth, the Bible will interpret the Bible not man. with love Rodron.

Welcome to the forum Rodron.

There are so many views because eschatology is a complicated complex topic.

Tension in a lot of the posts is in large part the personalities of the individual posters emerging, and revealed.

Douggg · Feb 24, 2019

DaDad said:
So there ya go. There are FIVE world empires, for which the "CLAY" is a "divided kingdom", as evidenced by today's THREE Superpowers and a Fourth UNITED NATIONS.

It is four, not five, because of these verses...when read all the way through.

Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

Douggg · Feb 24, 2019

DaDad said:
But for the sake of argument, here's what Jesus said, (being that Jesus is the WORD):

Daniel 2:35 ... the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver, and the gold = 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE
Daniel 2:45 ... the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver, and the gold = 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE

No, it is not five kingdoms. And it is not Jesus saying there are five. It is your misconstruing what is written. There are four kingdoms, with the fourth kingdom having the attributes metaphorically of iron mixed with clay, when the Kingdom of God is brought here to earth.

Fourth kingdom, Daniel 7:23-27, in power when the Kingdom of God is brought here to earth.

Just The Facts · Feb 24, 2019

Hi Rodon

The bottom line is false doctrine started right after Jesus death ...some argue during his life. Consider this....... many of these doctrines have a direct tie to perceived salvation. What I mean by that is many came to Christianity based on a belief in a particular view of prophecy. Whether it is Israel being founded .....the perceived evil of the Catholic Church. If that belief turns out to be un true what does that mean to this person with regard to the rest of what they have come to believe. ie if that was not true maybe all is a lie. The most important thing to remember in all these discussions is Jesus does not Judge based on your understanding of Prophecy.

Just The Facts · Feb 24, 2019

Hi Dougg

I agree with your above statement. I think where we differ is is the Beast in Rv13 as a Kingdom I believe you see it as the AC not a kingdom. So I see the clay and Iron as The Holy Roman Empire so still fourth Kingdom just honuring a God their Fathers did not know.

Douggg · Feb 24, 2019

Just The Facts said:
Hi Dougg

I agree with your above statement. I think where we differ is is the Beast in Rv13 as a Kingdom I believe you see it as the AC not a kingdom. So I see the clay and Iron as The Holy Roman Empire so still fourth Kingdom just honuring a God their Fathers did not know.

I view the beast in Revelation 13, as a person, which his kingdom is described in Revelation 13:2.

I don't refer to the person as the AC in Revelation 13, but as the beast. Being the Antichrist is for when the person is in the role of the King of Israel for awhile.

In Revelation 13, the person is in the role of the King of the Roman Empire.

Over all Look At the Book Of Daniel

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