Isaiah 40:22 -- "Globe of the Earth"

T. Taylor · Feb 21, 2019

Uber Genius said:
This is what is known as an argument from ignorance. I agree that the message is primarily concerned with the gospel of the kingdom, and further miracle accounts should be taken at face value, but where do you see anything suggesting that God supernaturally links "all truth," to scientific, math, historical truth?

I recognize that my arguments are sometimes weak, but that's partially because I cannot think in english (which is not my native language) and when I try to make a point I end up with a simplified version of what I thught. So that's an excuse :sorry:

. (Other excuses later :holy:

, maybe)

How is that exactly az argument from ignorance. I don't quite get it.

Where do I see that suggestion? It is very simple. The word 'all' means everything, thus it includes scientific, mathematical, historical and any kind of truths. God is well aware of those things, He upholds and governs everything. He is not wrong, doesn't make a mistake and most importantly He doesn't lie.
Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie, Neither the son of man, that he should repent...(Num. 23:19 ASV)
My point is, that God would not lie about something, even if it is not important.

Uber Genius said:
Again, you need to explain why conservative Bible believing scholars that hold a view similar to yours about the inspiration of the Bible come up with 7 different interpretations.
Those scholars say:
"It means A,"
"No B,"
"No clearly C,
"No it is not vague or unclear, it means D"
"You are all wrong it is E,"
"The HS has shown me that you are all carnal and wrong, it means F,"
"It is obviously the case that G is the only proper way to interpret Gen 1:1-2:3,"

And your response: "There is nothing unclear or vague, therefore all the above scholars that hold similar views to mine about God leading us into all truth are all correct."

Wait what?
Law of noncontradiction has just been violated.

Since clarity would produce ONE AND ONLY ONE THEORY from Bible Scholars who held your view. You have to provide some reason why there are 7.

Again, as I said, everything God says is true. However there is a deciever who has disciples and their goal is to corrupt the Word of God (what God said) and the minds of men. Corruption means that the deciever mixes the truth with lies. He used this tactic at the first attempt to decieve mankind and he succeded. (see gen. 3)

So the main reason why there are "7 different interpretations" is because the interpreters have fallen for some lie or are stuck in a tradition that is based on lies. One other reason as I stated before is the lack of humility towards the Word, they don't trust in what it says.

Uber Genius said:
And your response: "There is nothing unclear or vague, therefore all the above scholars that hold similar views to mine about God leading us into all truth are all correct."

Wait what?
Law of noncontradiction has just been violated.

That is not what I would say, so that is a straw man. (probably :idea:

)

Uber Genius said:
So God goes to the trouble of making sure the authors wrote the original autographs error-free in order to insure the Bible leading us into all truth, and then God approved error destroying the truth-value of those same accounts?

Wait What?

God did not approve the corruption of the Scriptures, first of all He just let it happen in order to separate the wheat from the tares.

Uber Genius said:
This is a non-sequitur. Did God allow human free will in recording their accounts in the Bible? If no, then are you a mormon or a Muslim? If yes then describe how God gave them perfect knowledge outside of their culture of things like cosmology, and I'm not talking about current cosmology, since that is wrong. I'm talking about Grand Unified theory and explanations of dark matter and dark energy only discovered in the last 25 years. And further who in audience that read the Bible the past 3000 years would have even understood or been able to be led into the truth of the inflationary hot big bang cosmology given they came from a prescientific world?

Ok. It is a non-sequitur. Then I change my sentence: The general message is true and the details are true also. How about that? :oldthumbsup:

Oh, and is it not a false dilemma what you wrote next? :holy:

Off course God allowed free will in recording the accounts in the Bible. In the same time they did not write what they wanted to say.

They wrote down what God wanted them to record, but they used their vocabulary, style, etc.

God did not gave the perfect knowlegde (meaning complete knowledge), just gave the partial but true knowledge about for example cosmology.
God is above all cultures and their beliefs, and even He wants His people outside of worldly cultures. He pointed out in His Word what things the world (cultures) got wrong and what is right in His eyes. Conclusion> God would have told His faithful if the culture which surrounds them is in error regarding cossmology for instance.

What you wrote afterwards I didn't fully understand or I just shaked my head because of what you asserted there. :scratch:

Uber Genius said:
Every denomination reads into the text. And every denomination has some scholars who exegete or draw out of the text its meaning to the original audience. So there is no interpretation gap that is universal.

I agree.
But I don't know what you mean by "universal interpretation gap". Please explain.

Uber Genius said:
So my faith tells me Christ was fully man but not fully God, actually he was "begotten" or was the first-born. The spirit tells me Jesus was the "first of creation," and that means he was created but was the most important creation." (Mods - I'm being facetious here to make a point, I don't actual hold this view so please don't modify it due to not reading it in context or misrepresent me as a heretic).

Actually that is similar to my understanding, but don't call me heretic.

Uber Genius said:
My point is that across church history we have thousands or hundreds of thousands of false claims based on the statement, "I have faith that this is what the HS is telling me."

Paul had faith that his words were from the Lord. But said if he came back preaching another gospel (that he had faith that the new gospel was from the Lord) they should:
A: Abandon the old gospel and adopt the new one
B: Abandon Paul's new gospel even if accompanied by angels

So here too the method you present is not the method we see presented in scripture, i.e. that is it is self-refuting.

I'm sympathetic to your view however, being raised in the Charismatic church, I was taught and hardily agreed with every one of your claims albeit 40 years ago.

I agree with the first sentence.

Paul presented God's message truthfully. It was not true because he had faith (that doesn't make it true), but because it came from God. What Paul said had to line up with other scriptures and at the same time it had to measure up to the Deutoronomy 13 test. If not it would not qualify as Scripture. Additionally Paul warned the readers of his letters that they must not fall for the deception i.e. the corruption of the truth.

What method am I presenting?
Actually I'm endorsing self-refuting and I used it many times.

I also respect your view. :oldthumbsup:

Wow 40 years is a lot.

Uber Genius · Feb 21, 2019

T. Taylor said:
I recognize that my arguments are sometimes weak, but that's partially because I cannot think in english (which is not my native language) and when I try to make a point I end up with a simplified version of what I thught. So that's an excuse . (Other excuses later , maybe)

How is that exactly az argument from ignorance. I don't quite get it.

Where do I see that suggestion? It is very simple. The word 'all' means everything, thus it includes scientific, mathematical, historical and any kind of truths. God is well aware of those things, He upholds and governs everything. He is not wrong, doesn't make a mistake and most importantly He doesn't lie.
Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie, Neither the son of man, that he should repent...(Num. 23:19 ASV)
My point is, that God would not lie about something, even if it is not important.

Again, as I said, everything God says is true. However there is a deciever who has disciples and their goal is to corrupt the Word of God (what God said) and the minds of men. Corruption means that the deciever mixes the truth with lies. He used this tactic at the first attempt to decieve mankind and he succeded. (see gen. 3)

So the main reason why there are "7 different interpretations" is because the interpreters have fallen for some lie or are stuck in a tradition that is based on lies. One other reason as I stated before is the lack of humility towards the Word, they don't trust in what it says.

That is not what I would say, so that is a straw man. (probably )

God did not approve the corruption of the Scriptures, first of all He just let it happen in order to separate the wheat from the tares.

Ok. It is a non-sequitur. Then I change my sentence: The general message is true and the details are true also. How about that? Oh, and is it not a false dilemma what you wrote next?

Off course God allowed free will in recording the accounts in the Bible. In the same time they did not write what they wanted to say.

They wrote down what God wanted them to record, but they used their vocabulary, style, etc.

God did not gave the perfect knowlegde (meaning complete knowledge), just gave the partial but true knowledge about for example cosmology.
God is above all cultures and their beliefs, and even He wants His people outside of worldly cultures. He pointed out in His Word what things the world (cultures) got wrong and what is right in His eyes. Conclusion> God would have told His faithful if the culture which surrounds them is in error regarding cossmology for instance.

What you wrote afterwards I didn't fully understand or I just shaked my head because of what you asserted there.

I agree.
But I don't know what you mean by "universal interpretation gap". Please explain.

Actually that is similar to my understanding, but don't call me heretic.

I agree with the first sentence.

Paul presented God's message truthfully. It was not true because he had faith (that doesn't make it true), but because it came from God. What Paul said had to line up with other scriptures and at the same time it had to measure up to the Deutoronomy 13 test. If not it would not qualify as Scripture. Additionally Paul warned the readers of his letters that they must not fall for the deception i.e. the corruption of the truth.

What method am I presenting?
Actually I'm endorsing self-refuting and I used it many times.

I also respect your view. Wow 40 years is a lot.

I will reply tomorrow as your intuitions deserve a full discussion so I can engage them. I am sympathetic to your view and am well-familiar with it. My arguments will be focused on the nature of the scriptural record itself, so inductive explanations of those data.

Part of the disconnect is that your argument is deductive based on taking a handful of scriptures and lifting them out of their context and then asserting them as premises in an argument. I am suggesting that we have much more work to do and that if we use the deductive approach it leaves us with self-refuting or incoherent data, such as how do we explain something having the property of "being clear" and then 7 completely different interpretations which seem on its face to be "Unclear."

Ad hoc is a method of explaining any data that seems contrived artificially. When we say well people are deceived or everyone who doesn't agree with me is not hearing from the HS and being deceived by the deceiver which quickly devolves into cascading claims of deception that God apparently through the HS is unable to thwart thus deception rather than clarity results.

So I will respond tomorrow to your questions above one by one. I am interested in accurately representing you so no intentional strawmen will be used but occasionally I will infer from your premises certain conclusions that you don't hold but haven't discussed yet. These are not intentional. I want you to understand why I have moved from your view of scripture to the one I hold now. And I am impressed that you have such a grasp of english being that it is a second or third or fourth language.

FEZZILLA · Feb 22, 2019

Hank77 said:
Orbim is translated world, which Tyndale did translate worlde. If as you say orbim is translated 'round' then which Latin word is 'worlde'.
I could have missed a word maybe.

Translating Psalm 89:11: English, Latin & Hebrew

This is one of my favorite "round world" verses so I'll add a complete corpus of every English translation that ever correctly translated this great verse.

"The heaues are thine, the earth is thine: thou hast layed the foundacio of the roude worlde and all that therin is" (1535 Coverdale Bible).

"The heauens are thine, the earth is thine: thou hast layed the foundation of the rounde world, and al that therin is" (1537 Matthew's Bible).

"The heauens are thyne, the earth also is thyne: thou hast layed the foundacyon of the rounde worlde, and all that therin is" (1539 Great Bible).

"The heauens are thine, the earth also is thine: thou hast layde the foundation of the rounde worlde, and of all the plentie that is therin" (1568 Bishop's Bible).

"To thee the heavens, also to thee the earth; the habitable globe and its fulness thou didst found them" (1876 Julia E. Smith Bible).
______________________________________________
† St.Jerome's Latin Vulgate:

Latin Vulgate: "tui sunt caeli et tua est terra orbem terrae et plenitudinem eius tu fundasti"

Translated from H776 אֶרֶץ ʼerets & H8398 תֵּבֵל têbêl .

Psalm 89:11 in the Vulgate contains the Latin phrase "terra orbem terrae."

Latin Definition of Terra
https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/the-meaning-of-the-word/terra.html

Orbem, accusative singular of orbis.

Latin Definition of orbis
https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/t...tM-kLpuQ1WBz-y84_lBsMFUsmV24GH4MzrZIfNGRrxjzI

Terrae is plural of terra. It is defined as,
https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/t...df4a05b8dca4722d33d699f9eb4d26f6a50b87dc.html

Latin meaning for orbis terrarum
https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/t...TSG1kzhIJftMyVkli_FOyzxq9VxB3vZCtb1DqAp2IzD94

Translating Psalm 18:15: Hebrew, Latin & English

Some verses in the Bible contain H8398 תֵּבֵל têbêl. Now not all 36 applications of the word carry a global meaning...but many do. So lets first examine the Matthew's Bible to see how H8398 תֵּבֵל têbêl is properly translated.

"The sprynges of waters were sene, and the foundacyons of the rounde worlde were discouered at thy chidynge (O Lorde) at the blastynge and breth of thy displeasures" (Strong's H8398 תֵּבֵל têbêl -- 1537 Matthew's Bible).

Did William Tyndale make a translator mistake by translating this verse "round world" since none of our modern Bible contain the phrase? No he didn't. It was the 1560 Geneva scholars who mistranslated it and from there the KJV scholars would use the Geneva Bible as their translation to follow after.

In St.Jerome's Latin Vulgate Psalm 18:15 is Psalm 17:16: "et apparuerunt fontes aquarum et revelata sunt fundamenta orbis terrarum ab increpatione tua Domine ab inspiratione spiritus irae tuae"

The word orbis is translated from Strong's H8398 תֵּבֵל têbêl and it can also be translated as globus.

Latin Definition of Orbis
https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/t...1iTN5Fd7kmf3YNUvy-8nJYBvgouf8pOLb4KNgedL2nYWQ

The Latin definition of orbis terrarum
https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/t...2bTQde_CsrIqmFREIxweLSMQagz3s-LGZ0LR4Uw5-zYiA

English Definition of orb
Orb definition and meaning | Collins English Dictionary
___________________________________________
Hebrew Lexicons for H8398 תֵּבֵל têbêl,

The New Strong's Exhaustive Expanded Concordance of the Bible. H8398

"8398. têbêl, tay-bale'; from H2986; the earth (as moist and therefore inhabited); by extension, the globe; by implication, its inhabitants; specifically, a particular land, as Babylonia, Palestine:—world [35x] habitable part, [1x].
The word signified, first, the solid material on which man dwells, and that was formed, founded, established, and disposed by God; and secondly, the inhabitants thereof. See TWOT 835h; BDB--385c, 1061d."

Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon

Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament.

TWOT 835h תֵּבֵל têbêl, tay-bale'; world.

"This noun is used in three basic situations. First, the noun is employed to represent the global mass called earth, including the atmosphere or heavens (cf. Ps.89:12; II Sam 22:16; et al.). têbêl is often in parallelism or apposition with 'eres (I Sam 2:8; Isa.26:9; 34:1; et al.) when 'eres is used in its broadest sense of "the world." The "world" was created by God, not false gods (Jer.10:12; Ps.93:1) and it belongs solely to him (Ps.24:1). God's eternality is illustrated by his existence before the creation of "world" (Ps.90:2) and his wisdom (perhaps a personification of Christ) was present prior to the world's creation (Prov. 8:26, 31). Creation itself gives a "worldwide" witness to God's glory (Ps.19:4 [H 5]) which should result in Yahweh's praise (Ps.98:2). Yahweh will judge this "world," making it empty (Isa.24:4), though in the millennium God will cause Israel to blossom and fill the whole world with her fruit (Isa.27:6).

Second, têbêl is sometime limited to "countries" or "the inhabitable world." This meaning is more closely related to the root meaning. It refers to the world where crops are raised. This is observed in the judgment message against the king of Babylon (not Satan) for violently shaking the "world" or "inhabitable world" (Isa.13:11; 14:17). Lightning is said to enlighten the "world"---undoubtedly referring to a limited land area (Ps.77:18 [H 19]; 97:4).

Third, têbêl may also refer to the inhabitants living upon the whole earth. This is demonstrated by the parallelism of têbêl with I' umim (Ps.9:8 [H 9]) and 'ammim (Ps.96:13; 98:9). The context of these references is Yahweh's judgment upon the world's inhabitants---a judgment both executed in righteousness and instructive of Yahweh's righteousness (Isa.26:9; 34:1).

In several passages the sense of têbêl as the globular earth in combination with its inhabitants is clearly observed. Everything belongs to Yahweh as his creation (Ps.50:12). Yahweh alone controls this world (Job 34:13; Nah 1:5) and his power is over all the earth which always responds to his presence (Job 37:12; Ps.97:4)".

New International Dictionary of Old Testament Theology & Exegesis, Volume 4:

"9315. têbêl תֵּבֵל Nom. fem., world (#9315).

OT Found 36x exclusively in poetic texts, the word conveys the cosmic or global sense in which 'eres is also sometimes used; i.e., the whole earth or world considered as a single entity. It sometimes occurs in parallelism with 'eres (Jer.10:12; Lam.4:12). Twice it is used together with 'eres, either to express "the whole earth" (Job 37:12), or perhaps in the sense of the inhabited earth (Prov.8:31). It is used frequently in contexts that associate it with Yahweh's creative act and that, as a result, express the stability or durability of the earth (1 Sam.2:8; Ps.89:11 [12]; 93:1; 96:10). It is used when the whole population of the world is referred to (Ps.24:1; 33:8; 98:7; Isa. 18:3; 26:9; Nah.1:5). Isaiah uses têbêl more than any other prophet, mostly in the context of universal judgment (Isaiah 13:11; 24:4; 34:1; cf. Ps.96:13; 98:9).

Land, earth: --> damd (ground, piece of land, soil, realm of the earth, #141); --> 'eres (earth, land, #824); --> têbêl (world, #9315)."
___________________________________________
Breakdown of Hebrew Lexicons on H8398: תֵּבֵל têbêl,

Strong's: "; by extension, the globe;"

Gesenius': ",the habitable globe,"

TWOT: "First, the noun is employed to represent the global mass called earth" <-- AND -->"In several passages the sense of têbêl as the globular earth in combination with its inhabitants is clearly observed."

New International: "the word conveys the cosmic or global sense in which 'eres is also sometimes used; i.e., the whole earth or world considered as a single entity."

Hank77 · Feb 22, 2019

FEZZILLA said:
Latin Vulgate: "tui sunt caeli et tua est terra orbem terrae et plenitudinem eius tu fundasti"

Translated from H776 אֶרֶץ ʼerets & H8398 תֵּבֵל têbêl .

Psalm 89:11 in the Vulgate contains the Latin phrase "terra orbem terrae."

You've change verses. We were talking about a verse in Jeremiah. But it's fine.

Speedwell · Feb 22, 2019

If you have to go to all that trouble to be sure of what the Bible has to say about it, you can't really say that the Bible teaches it.

Hank77 · Feb 22, 2019

Vulgate
tui sunt caeli et tua est terra orbem terrae et plenitudinem eius tu fundasti

1599 Geneva Bible - GNV 1560
11 The heavens are thine, the earth also is thine: thou hast laid the foundation of the world, and all that therein is.

KJV
The heavens are thine, the earth also is thine: as for the world and the fulness thereof, thou hast founded them.

Orthodox Jewish Bible - OJB
Tehillim 89:11
11 (12) Shomayim are Thine, Eretz also is Thine; as for the tevel (world) and the fulness thereof, Thou hast founded them.

I'm sorry, but I'm confused about what you are trying to get at.
Neither the Latin Vulgate nor the Hebrew includes the word 'round'.
Your links to the Latin translations don't say round or circle. Just 'the' and 'world' and terra is 'earth'. In this verse 'world' means more than just the land/earth.

Theo Barnsley · Feb 23, 2019

FEZZILLA said:
By who's authority do you speak?

The real question is "by who's authority do YOU speak?"

You post a lot of stuff where you claim to have superior knowledge about how to interpret the jewish bible, (even better than the jews), yet you never back it up with any real evidence of how you came about this knowledge. However you have claimed that 'God' helps you interpret stuff, which makes me think that maybe you need to seek professional help about the voices inside your head. just saying ........

Theo Barnsley · Feb 23, 2019

T. Taylor said:
Paul presented God's message truthfully. It was not true because he had faith (that doesn't make it true), but because it came from God. What Paul said had to line up with other scriptures and at the same time it had to measure up to the Deutoronomy 13 test. If not it would not qualify as Scripture. Additionally Paul warned the readers of his letters that they must not fall for the deception i.e. the corruption of the truth.

how do you know that Paul presented gods message truthfully? How can we know that Jesus wasnt a false messiah, as claimed by the jews. If Jesus WAS a false messiah, then Pauls message dosnt measure up to the deuteronomy 13 test at all, because Paul is promoting a false god!

In deuteronomy13, god is telling his people to only worship him. He isnt telling them to worship him, & his son as well! Paul might be the one who is corrupting the truth!

T. Taylor · Feb 23, 2019

Theo Barnsley said:
how do you know that Paul presented gods message truthfully? How can we know that Jesus wasnt a false messiah, as claimed by the jews. If Jesus WAS a false messiah, then Pauls message dosnt measure up to the deuteronomy 13 test at all, because Paul is promoting a false god!

In deuteronomy13, god is telling his people to only worship him. He isnt telling them to worship him, & his son as well! Paul might be the one who is corrupting the truth!

Paul's own words:

I am speaking the truth in Christ, I am not lying; my conscience bears me witness in the Holy Spirit, (Rom. 9:1 RSV)
For this I was appointed a preacher and apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying), a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth. (1 Tim. 2:7 RSV)

Paul spoke by the Holy Spirit and what he taught, preached had to agree with the preexisting Scriptures (what is called today the OT) ispired by the same Spririt, and with everything that Jesus said and did by the same Spirit. By searching the Scriptures one could determine that what Paul said was the truth. This was his listeners method for example in Beroea (RSV):

Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with all eagerness, examining the scriptures daily to see if these things were so. (Acts 17:11 RSV)

I speak as to sensible men; judge for yourselves what I say. (1 Cor. 10:15 RSV)

Jesus was the messiah prophesied in the Scriptures. He fullfilled many prophecies when he came down to Earth first time. The problem was (is) with the jews (not only). They didn't recognize Him because they were (still are) blinded by their traditions, based on false interpretations, based on lies and deception.

13 This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.
14 With them indeed is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah which says: `You shall indeed hear but never understand, and you shall indeed see but never perceive.
15 For this people's heart has grown dull, and their ears are heavy of hearing, and their eyes they have closed, lest they should perceive with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and turn for me to heal them.'
(Matt. 13:13-15 RSV)

Even His disciples were influenced by this false perception. For example the two disciples on way to Emmaus:

...25 And he said to them, "O foolish men, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken!
26 Was it not necessary that the Christ should suffer these things and enter into his glory?"
27 And beginning with Moses and all the prophets, he interpreted to them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself. (Lk. 24:25-27 RSV)

Jesus was who He claimed to be and He certainly measured up to deutoronomy 13. He did not say anything like this: `Let us go after other gods,' which you have not known, `and let us serve them,' (Deut. 13:2 RSV). And you are right, God the Father is to be worshipped. Besides Jesus never said we should worship Him as we worship the Father.

Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me. (Jn. 14:6 RSV)

Theo Barnsley · Feb 23, 2019

T. Taylor said:
Paul's own words:

I am speaking the truth in Christ, I am not lying; my conscience bears me witness in the Holy Spirit, (Rom. 9:1 RSV)
For this I was appointed a preacher and apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying), a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth. (1 Tim. 2:7 RSV)

Paul spoke by the Holy Spirit and what he taught, preached had to agree with the preexisting Scriptures (what is called today the OT) ispired by the same Spririt, and with everything that Jesus said and did by the same Spirit. By searching the Scriptures one could determine that what Paul said was the truth. This was his listeners method for example in Beroea (RSV):

Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with all eagerness, examining the scriptures daily to see if these things were so. (Acts 17:11 RSV)

I speak as to sensible men; judge for yourselves what I say. (1 Cor. 10:15 RSV)

Jesus was the messiah prophesied in the Scriptures. He fullfilled many prophecies when he came down to Earth first time. The problem was (is) with the jews (not only). They didn't recognize Him because they were (still are) blinded by their traditions, based on false interpretations, based on lies and deception.

13 This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.
14 With them indeed is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah which says: `You shall indeed hear but never understand, and you shall indeed see but never perceive.
15 For this people's heart has grown dull, and their ears are heavy of hearing, and their eyes they have closed, lest they should perceive with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and turn for me to heal them.'
(Matt. 13:13-15 RSV)

Even His disciples were influenced by this false perception. For example the two disciples on way to Emmaus:

...25 And he said to them, "O foolish men, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken!
26 Was it not necessary that the Christ should suffer these things and enter into his glory?"
27 And beginning with Moses and all the prophets, he interpreted to them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself. (Lk. 24:25-27 RSV)

Jesus was who He claimed to be and He certainly measured up to deutoronomy 13. He did not say anything like this: `Let us go after other gods,' which you have not known, `and let us serve them,' (Deut. 13:2 RSV). And you are right, God the Father is to be worshipped. Besides Jesus never said we should worship Him as we worship the Father.

Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me. (Jn. 14:6 RSV)

When people have to keep saying "I am not telling lies, I am telling the truth" it is usually a sure sign that they are actually telling lies. It means that they are doubted, & suspected of telling lies, so he is speaking with no real authority if he has to keep defending himself like that. If he really was speaking through god, he would have the authority of god. You dont see any texts from the prophets in the old testament where they have to keep defending themselves by saying "I am telling the truth, I am not telling lies"!

It is only the opinion of christians that

"jews didn't recognize Him because they were (still are) blinded by their traditions, based on false interpretations, based on lies and deception. "

Where is your evidence that this is actually the case? Maybe jews dont believe in him because he isnt actually the prophesied messiah, but a false prophet.

Jesus fulfilled none of the prophecies expected of the messiah. The followers of Jesus knew that full well, which is why they had to invent the resurection & 2nd coming of jesus, so that he could fulfill the prophecies of the messiah.

If you want evidence that jesus is a false prophet, then you need to look no further than the claim that he would return "in the generation of the disciples". He didnt, so there is no other explanation than he was actually a false prophet!

There is no evidence that can be presented that can prove that jesus was a god, other than claimed prophecies presented by christian apologists, which simply dont stack up when scrutinised.

jesus wouldnt have to say "let us go after false gods". He probably didnt see himself as a god, but was represented that way after his death by others. I never claimed that Jesus said that he should be worshipped, yet it is jesus that christians do worship.

The claim that I contested in my post was that Paul presented gods messge truthfully, however there is no way to verify that claim. There are many christians who question wether or not Paul actually preached gods message, or wether he made most of it up, or wether or not he was actually an agent of satan who distorted everything that jesus represented.

Strathos · Feb 23, 2019

Theo Barnsley said:
When people have to keep saying "I am not telling lies, I am telling the truth" it is usually a sure sign that they are actually telling lies. It means that they are doubted, & suspected of telling lies, so he is speaking with no real authority if he has to keep defending himself like that. If he really was speaking through god, he would have the authority of god. You dont see any texts from the prophets in the old testament where they have to keep defending themselves by saying "I am telling the truth, I am not telling lies"!

It is only the opinion of christians that

Where is your evidence that this is actually the case? Maybe jews dont believe in him because he isnt actually the prophesied messiah, but a false prophet.

Jesus fulfilled none of the prophecies expected of the messiah. The followers of Jesus knew that full well, which is why they had to invent the resurection & 2nd coming of jesus, so that he could fulfill the prophecies of the messiah.

If you want evidence that jesus is a false prophet, then you need to look no further than the claim that he would return "in the generation of the disciples". He didnt, so there is no other explanation than he was actually a false prophet!

There is no evidence that can be presented that can prove that jesus was a god, other than claimed prophecies presented by christian apologists, which simply dont stack up when scrutinised.

jesus wouldnt have to say "let us go after false gods". He probably didnt see himself as a god, but was represented that way after his death by others. I never claimed that Jesus said that he should be worshipped, yet it is jesus that christians do worship.

The claim that I contested in my post was that Paul presented gods messge truthfully, however there is no way to verify that claim. There are many christians who question wether or not Paul actually preached gods message, or wether he made most of it up, or wether or not he was actually an agent of satan who distorted everything that jesus represented.

You sound like a Muslim now.

T. Taylor · Feb 23, 2019

Theo Barnsley said:
When people have to keep saying "I am not telling lies, I am telling the truth" it is usually a sure sign that they are actually telling lies. It means that they are doubted, & suspected of telling lies, so he is speaking with no real authority if he has to keep defending himself like that. If he really was speaking through god, he would have the authority of god. You dont see any texts from the prophets in the old testament where they have to keep defending themselves by saying "I am telling the truth, I am not telling lies"!

It is only the opinion of christians that

Where is your evidence that this is actually the case? Maybe jews dont believe in him because he isnt actually the prophesied messiah, but a false prophet.

Jesus fulfilled none of the prophecies expected of the messiah. The followers of Jesus knew that full well, which is why they had to invent the resurection & 2nd coming of jesus, so that he could fulfill the prophecies of the messiah.

If you want evidence that jesus is a false prophet, then you need to look no further than the claim that he would return "in the generation of the disciples". He didnt, so there is no other explanation than he was actually a false prophet!

There is no evidence that can be presented that can prove that jesus was a god, other than claimed prophecies presented by christian apologists, which simply dont stack up when scrutinised.

jesus wouldnt have to say "let us go after false gods". He probably didnt see himself as a god, but was represented that way after his death by others. I never claimed that Jesus said that he should be worshipped, yet it is jesus that christians do worship.

The claim that I contested in my post was that Paul presented gods messge truthfully, however there is no way to verify that claim. There are many christians who question wether or not Paul actually preached gods message, or wether he made most of it up, or wether or not he was actually an agent of satan who distorted everything that jesus represented.

"O foolish men, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken!"

FEZZILLA · Feb 23, 2019

Theo Barnsley said:
The real question is "by who's authority do YOU speak?"

You post a lot of stuff where you claim to have superior knowledge about how to interpret the jewish bible, (even better than the jews), yet you never back it up with any real evidence of how you came about this knowledge. However you have claimed that 'God' helps you interpret stuff, which makes me think that maybe you need to seek professional help about the voices inside your head. just saying ........

I've actually quoted famous Jewish historian Josephus who said God placed the firmament around the world and also alluded to Job 26:7.

I speak in the authority of Jesus Christ and the 2000 years of Christian saints who all agree with the simple message I have posted here.

Flat earthers cannot claim to speak in Jesus` name because Jesus Himself said He would return to a round earth, and ancient Christians also read globe earth from the Bible. FE has no argument and no root in Christianity. There is no flat earth tradition because the Bible does not teach it.

FEZZILLA · Feb 23, 2019

Hank77 said:
You've change verses. We were talking about a verse in Jeremiah. But it's fine.

Same word is used in all verse quoted. The Hebrew word is H8398 תֵּבֵל têbêl

Latin Vulgate:

Jeremiah 51:15,

"qui fecit terram in fortitudine sua praeparavit orbem in sapientia sua et prudentia sua extendit caelos"

Psalm 18:15,

"et apparuerunt fontes aquarum et revelata sunt fundamenta orbis terrarum ab increpatione tua Domine ab inspiratione spiritus irae tuae"

Psalm 89:11,

"tui sunt caeli et tua est terra orbem terrae et plenitudinem eius tu fundasti"

FEZZILLA · Feb 23, 2019

Hank77 said:
Vulgate
tui sunt caeli et tua est terra orbem terrae et plenitudinem eius tu fundasti

1599 Geneva Bible - GNV 1560
11 The heavens are thine, the earth also is thine: thou hast laid the foundation of the world, and all that therein is.

KJV
The heavens are thine, the earth also is thine: as for the world and the fulness thereof, thou hast founded them.

Orthodox Jewish Bible - OJB
Tehillim 89:11
11 (12) Shomayim are Thine, Eretz also is Thine; as for the tevel (world) and the fulness thereof, Thou hast founded them.

I'm sorry, but I'm confused about what you are trying to get at.
Neither the Latin Vulgate nor the Hebrew includes the word 'round'.
Your links to the Latin translations don't say round or circle. Just 'the' and 'world' and terra is 'earth'. In this verse 'world' means more than just the land/earth.

You treat Hebrew as if it was English. First of all, the OJB was a huge disappointment to many serious students and scholars of Hebrew. Its not a good translation. Secondly, The Geneva Bible was the worst English translation of the 16th century. It reads 90% like the KJV. Our Hebrew lexicons follow the KJV, and while I place the KJV above most all other translations, it is not more accurate than the Tyndale Bibles. But even when we consider the KJV we don't see a defense for flat earth.

"The heavens are thine, the earth also is thine: as for the world and the fulness thereof, thou hast founded them."

The fulness thereof? That sounds like a fully shaped earth to me! Surely we cannot say the same thing about a flat earth...as a flat earth lacks fulness.

A more accurate to the Hebrew translation is the 1537 Matthew's Bible which is largely the works of William Tyndale.

"The heauens are thine, the earth is thine: thou hast layed the foundation of the rounde world, and al that therin is" (1537 Matthew's Bible)."

Latin Vulgate: "tui sunt caeli et tua est terra orbem terrae et plenitudinem eius tu fundasti"

Latin Phrase: terra orbem terrae
Hebrew Phrase: H776 אֶרֶץ ʼerets, H8398 תֵּבֵל têbêl, מְלֹא mᵉlôʼ

Latin Definition of Terra
https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/t...EWPooCGHy8B2haHSzwTzOysP_jj9F6D3FsduZwQ4RLkJ8

Orbem, accusative singular of orbis.

Latin Definition of orbis
https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/t...VjpFHgcfGiXklKHx7NsBavs8YoPsCeVxqBv28oi4oG3Ls

Latin Definition of orbis terrae
https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/t...3Y0qtAIlr3S8Fsg5g34QQf_3UvlrX8Jhi1UM4nc0at8rY

Psalm 19:4 uses orbis terrae:

"in omnem terram exivit sonus eorum et in fines orbis terrae verba eorum."

Proverbs 8:31 uses orbe terrarum

"ludens in orbe terrarum et deliciae meae esse cum filiis hominum"

The main Hebrew world which is translated round world in the Tyndale Bibles and orbis, orbem, orbe in Jerome's Latin Vulgate is H8398 תֵּבֵל têbêl. So again I will provide 4 Hebrew lexicons that prove Tyndale's renderings are superior as most serious Bible scholars agree.

Hebrew Lexicons for H8398 תֵּבֵל têbêl

The New Strong's Exhaustive Expanded Concordance of the Bible.

"8398. têbêl, tay-bale'; from H2986; the earth (as moist and therefore inhabited); by extension, the globe; by implication, its inhabitants; specifically, a particular land, as Babylonia, Palestine:—world [35x] habitable part, [1x].

The word signified, first, the solid material on which man dwells, and that was formed, founded, established, and disposed by God; and secondly, the inhabitants thereof. See TWOT 835h; BDB--385c, 1061d."

Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon

Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament.

TWOT 835h תֵּבֵל têbêl, tay-bale'; world.

"This noun is used in three basic situations. First, the noun is employed to represent the global mass called earth, including the atmosphere or heavens (cf. Ps.89:12; II Sam 22:16; et al.). têbêl is often in parallelism or apposition with 'eres (I Sam 2:8; Isa.26:9; 34:1; et al.) when 'eres is used in its broadest sense of "the world." The "world" was created by God, not false gods (Jer.10:12; Ps.93:1) and it belongs solely to him (Ps.24:1). God's eternality is illustrated by his existence before the creation of "world" (Ps.90:2) and his wisdom (perhaps a personification of Christ) was present prior to the world's creation (Prov. 8:26, 31). Creation itself gives a "worldwide" witness to God's glory (Ps.19:4 [H 5]) which should result in Yahweh's praise (Ps.98:2). Yahweh will judge this "world," making it empty (Isa.24:4), though in the millennium God will cause Israel to blossom and fill the whole world with her fruit (Isa.27:6).

Second, têbêl is sometime limited to "countries" or "the inhabitable world." This meaning is more closely related to the root meaning. It refers to the world where crops are raised. This is observed in the judgment message against the king of Babylon (not Satan) for violently shaking the "world" or "inhabitable world" (Isa.13:11; 14:17). Lightning is said to enlighten the "world"---undoubtedly referring to a limited land area (Ps.77:18 [H 19]; 97:4).

Third, têbêl may also refer to the inhabitants living upon the whole earth. This is demonstrated by the parallelism of têbêl with I' umim (Ps.9:8 [H 9]) and 'ammim (Ps.96:13; 98:9). The context of these references is Yahweh's judgment upon the world's inhabitants---a judgment both executed in righteousness and instructive of Yahweh's righteousness (Isa.26:9; 34:1).

In several passages the sense of têbêl as the globular earth in combination with its inhabitants is clearly observed. Everything belongs to Yahweh as his creation (Ps.50:12). Yahweh alone controls this world (Job 34:13; Nah 1:5) and his power is over all the earth which always responds to his presence (Job 37:12; Ps.97:4)".

New International Dictionary of Old Testament Theology & Exegesis, Volume 4:

"9315. têbêl תֵּבֵל Nom. fem., world (#9315).

OT Found 36x exclusively in poetic texts, the word conveys the cosmic or global sense in which 'eres is also sometimes used; i.e., the whole earth or world considered as a single entity. It sometimes occurs in parallelism with 'eres (Jer.10:12; Lam.4:12). Twice it is used together with 'eres, either to express "the whole earth" (Job 37:12), or perhaps in the sense of the inhabited earth (Prov.8:31). It is used frequently in contexts that associate it with Yahweh's creative act and that, as a result, express the stability or durability of the earth (1 Sam.2:8; Ps.89:11 [12]; 93:1; 96:10). It is used when the whole population of the world is referred to (Ps.24:1; 33:8; 98:7; Isa. 18:3; 26:9; Nah.1:5). Isaiah uses têbêl more than any other prophet, mostly in the context of universal judgment (Isaiah 13:11; 24:4; 34:1; cf. Ps.96:13; 98:9).

Land, earth: --> damd (ground, piece of land, soil, realm of the earth, #141); --> 'eres (earth, land, #824); --> têbêl (world, #9315)."
___________________________________________________________
Breakdown of Hebrew Lexicons on H8398: תֵּבֵל têbêl,

Strong's: "; by extension, the globe;"

Gesenius': ",the habitable globe,"

TWOT: "First, the noun is employed to represent the global mass called earth" <--AND -->"In several passages the sense of têbêl as the globular earth in combination with its inhabitants is clearly observed."

New International: "the word conveys the cosmic or global sense in which 'eres is also sometimes used; i.e., the whole earth or world considered as a single entity."

These maps are real and much older than Sarna's 20th century fake

Hank77 · Feb 23, 2019

FEZZILLA said:
You treat Hebrew as if it was English. First of all, the OJB was a huge disappointment to many serious students and scholars of Hebrew. Its not a good translation.

OK maybe the JPS - Jewish Publication Society - it's actually Psalms 89:12 in this translation. This is the translation chosen by Nehemia Gordon, a Jewish Bible scholar, raised as an Orthodox Jew, by a rabbi father, for those who do not read Hebrew. Nehemia is not a Christian.
https://jps.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Tanakh1917.pdf

Thine are the heavens, Thine also the earth; The world and the fulness thereof, Thou hast founded them.

T. Taylor · Feb 23, 2019

FEZZILLA said:
Same word is used in all verse quoted. The Hebrew word is H8398 תֵּבֵל têbêl

Latin Vulgate:

Jeremiah 51:15,

"qui fecit terram in fortitudine sua praeparavit orbem in sapientia sua et prudentia sua extendit caelos"

Psalm 18:15,

"et apparuerunt fontes aquarum et revelata sunt fundamenta orbis terrarum ab increpatione tua Domine ab inspiratione spiritus irae tuae"

Psalm 89:11,

"tui sunt caeli et tua est terra orbem terrae et plenitudinem eius tu fundasti"

orbis
Latin
Etymology
Of uncertain origin. May stem from Proto-Indo-European *h₃erbʰis (“circle, orb”), cognate to English wharf, Dutch werf, Old High German hwarb (“turn”), Greek καρπός (karpós, “wrist”), or *h₃erǵʰi- instead.

Pronunciation

(Classical) IPA(key): /ˈor.bis/, [ˈɔr.bɪs]

Noun
orbis m (genitive orbis); third declension

circle, ring
a circular motion
a rotation
a disc or disc-shaped object
the Earth, the world, the globe [often written as orbis terrarum]
totus orbis terrarum
the whole wide world

(orbis - Wiktionary)

orb
[awrb]
noun
a sphere or globe: a Christmas tree hung with brightly colored orbs.
the eyeball or eye: He looks with blind orbs on an indifferent world.
any of the heavenly bodies, as the sun or moon: He lay on the grass, warmed by that orb of day, the sun.
a globe bearing a cross; the mound or emblem of sovereignty, especially as part of the regalia of England.
Astrology. the number of degrees from exactness within which an aspect operates.
a circle or something circular.
Astronomy. (formerly) the orbit of a heavenly body.
the earth.

Origin of orb
First recorded in 1520–30, orb is from the Latin word orbis circle, disk, orb

(the definition of orb)

Circle≠sphere

T. Taylor · Feb 23, 2019

FEZZILLA said:
You treat Hebrew as if it was English. First of all, the OJB was a huge disappointment to many serious students and scholars of Hebrew. Its not a good translation. Secondly, The Geneva Bible was the worst English translation of the 16th century. It reads 90% like the KJV. Our Hebrew lexicons follow the KJV, and while I place the KJV above most all other translations, it is not more accurate than the Tyndale Bibles. But even when we consider the KJV we don't see a defense for flat earth.

"The heavens are thine, the earth also is thine: as for the world and the fulness thereof, thou hast founded them."

The fulness thereof? That sounds like a fully shaped earth to me! Surely we cannot say the same thing about a flat earth...as a flat earth lacks fulness.

A more accurate to the Hebrew translation is the 1537 Matthew's Bible which is largely the works of William Tyndale.

"The heauens are thine, the earth is thine: thou hast layed the foundation of the rounde world, and al that therin is" (1537 Matthew's Bible)."

Latin Vulgate: "tui sunt caeli et tua est terra orbem terrae et plenitudinem eius tu fundasti"

Latin Phrase: terra orbem terrae
Hebrew Phrase: H776 אֶרֶץ ʼerets, H8398 תֵּבֵל têbêl, מְלֹא mᵉlôʼ

Latin Definition of Terra
https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/t...EWPooCGHy8B2haHSzwTzOysP_jj9F6D3FsduZwQ4RLkJ8

Orbem, accusative singular of orbis.

Latin Definition of orbis
https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/t...VjpFHgcfGiXklKHx7NsBavs8YoPsCeVxqBv28oi4oG3Ls

Latin Definition of orbis terrae
https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/t...3Y0qtAIlr3S8Fsg5g34QQf_3UvlrX8Jhi1UM4nc0at8rY

Psalm 19:4 uses orbis terrae:

"in omnem terram exivit sonus eorum et in fines orbis terrae verba eorum."
View attachment 251908

Proverbs 8:31 uses orbe terrarum

"ludens in orbe terrarum et deliciae meae esse cum filiis hominum"

The main Hebrew world which is translated round world in the Tyndale Bibles and orbis, orbem, orbe in Jerome's Latin Vulgate is H8398 תֵּבֵל têbêl. So again I will provide 4 Hebrew lexicons that prove Tyndale's renderings are superior as most serious Bible scholars agree.

Hebrew Lexicons for H8398 תֵּבֵל têbêl

The New Strong's Exhaustive Expanded Concordance of the Bible.

"8398. têbêl, tay-bale'; from H2986; the earth (as moist and therefore inhabited); by extension, the globe; by implication, its inhabitants; specifically, a particular land, as Babylonia, Palestine:—world [35x] habitable part, [1x].

The word signified, first, the solid material on which man dwells, and that was formed, founded, established, and disposed by God; and secondly, the inhabitants thereof. See TWOT 835h; BDB--385c, 1061d."

Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon
View attachment 251911

Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament.

TWOT 835h תֵּבֵל têbêl, tay-bale'; world.

"This noun is used in three basic situations. First, the noun is employed to represent the global mass called earth, including the atmosphere or heavens (cf. Ps.89:12; II Sam 22:16; et al.). têbêl is often in parallelism or apposition with 'eres (I Sam 2:8; Isa.26:9; 34:1; et al.) when 'eres is used in its broadest sense of "the world." The "world" was created by God, not false gods (Jer.10:12; Ps.93:1) and it belongs solely to him (Ps.24:1). God's eternality is illustrated by his existence before the creation of "world" (Ps.90:2) and his wisdom (perhaps a personification of Christ) was present prior to the world's creation (Prov. 8:26, 31). Creation itself gives a "worldwide" witness to God's glory (Ps.19:4 [H 5]) which should result in Yahweh's praise (Ps.98:2). Yahweh will judge this "world," making it empty (Isa.24:4), though in the millennium God will cause Israel to blossom and fill the whole world with her fruit (Isa.27:6).

Second, têbêl is sometime limited to "countries" or "the inhabitable world." This meaning is more closely related to the root meaning. It refers to the world where crops are raised. This is observed in the judgment message against the king of Babylon (not Satan) for violently shaking the "world" or "inhabitable world" (Isa.13:11; 14:17). Lightning is said to enlighten the "world"---undoubtedly referring to a limited land area (Ps.77:18 [H 19]; 97:4).

Third, têbêl may also refer to the inhabitants living upon the whole earth. This is demonstrated by the parallelism of têbêl with I' umim (Ps.9:8 [H 9]) and 'ammim (Ps.96:13; 98:9). The context of these references is Yahweh's judgment upon the world's inhabitants---a judgment both executed in righteousness and instructive of Yahweh's righteousness (Isa.26:9; 34:1).

In several passages the sense of têbêl as the globular earth in combination with its inhabitants is clearly observed. Everything belongs to Yahweh as his creation (Ps.50:12). Yahweh alone controls this world (Job 34:13; Nah 1:5) and his power is over all the earth which always responds to his presence (Job 37:12; Ps.97:4)".

New International Dictionary of Old Testament Theology & Exegesis, Volume 4:

"9315. têbêl תֵּבֵל Nom. fem., world (#9315).

OT Found 36x exclusively in poetic texts, the word conveys the cosmic or global sense in which 'eres is also sometimes used; i.e., the whole earth or world considered as a single entity. It sometimes occurs in parallelism with 'eres (Jer.10:12; Lam.4:12). Twice it is used together with 'eres, either to express "the whole earth" (Job 37:12), or perhaps in the sense of the inhabited earth (Prov.8:31). It is used frequently in contexts that associate it with Yahweh's creative act and that, as a result, express the stability or durability of the earth (1 Sam.2:8; Ps.89:11 [12]; 93:1; 96:10). It is used when the whole population of the world is referred to (Ps.24:1; 33:8; 98:7; Isa. 18:3; 26:9; Nah.1:5). Isaiah uses têbêl more than any other prophet, mostly in the context of universal judgment (Isaiah 13:11; 24:4; 34:1; cf. Ps.96:13; 98:9).

Land, earth: --> damd (ground, piece of land, soil, realm of the earth, #141); --> 'eres (earth, land, #824); --> têbêl (world, #9315)."
___________________________________________________________
Breakdown of Hebrew Lexicons on H8398: תֵּבֵל têbêl,

Strong's: "; by extension, the globe;"

Gesenius': ",the habitable globe,"

TWOT: "First, the noun is employed to represent the global mass called earth" <--AND -->"In several passages the sense of têbêl as the globular earth in combination with its inhabitants is clearly observed."

New International: "the word conveys the cosmic or global sense in which 'eres is also sometimes used; i.e., the whole earth or world considered as a single entity."

View attachment 251912
These maps are real and much older than Sarna's 20th century fake
View attachment 251913

Map made in 1587 by Urbano Monte

David Rumsey Historical Map Collection | Largest Early World Map - Monte's 10 ft. Planisphere of 1587

Composite: Tavola 1-60. (Map of the World) (with additional spheres and labels in the four corners). - David Rumsey Historical Map Collection

FEZZILLA · Feb 23, 2019

T. Taylor said:
orbis
Latin
Etymology
Of uncertain origin. May stem from Proto-Indo-European *h₃erbʰis (“circle, orb”), cognate to English wharf, Dutch werf, Old High German hwarb (“turn”), Greek καρπός (karpós, “wrist”), or *h₃erǵʰi- instead.

Pronunciation

(Classical) IPA(key): /ˈor.bis/, [ˈɔr.bɪs]

Noun
orbis m (genitive orbis); third declension

circle, ring

a circular motion

a rotation

a disc or disc-shaped object

the Earth, the world, the globe [often written as orbis terrarum]
totus orbis terrarum
the whole wide world

(orbis - Wiktionary)

orb
[awrb]
noun
a sphere or globe: a Christmas tree hung with brightly colored orbs.
the eyeball or eye: He looks with blind orbs on an indifferent world.
any of the heavenly bodies, as the sun or moon: He lay on the grass, warmed by that orb of day, the sun.
a globe bearing a cross; the mound or emblem of sovereignty, especially as part of the regalia of England.
Astrology. the number of degrees from exactness within which an aspect operates.
a circle or something circular.
Astronomy. (formerly) the orbit of a heavenly body.
the earth.

Origin of orb
First recorded in 1520–30, orb is from the Latin word orbis circle, disk, orb

(the definition of orb)

Circle≠sphere

How to say "world globe" in Latin
https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/t...kBC4aDGtsfga2uF8e_sOKMJysM_i7umPXDsDl_sc89YLI

Theo Barnsley · Feb 23, 2019

FEZZILLA said:
I've actually quoted famous Jewish historian Josephus who said God placed the firmament around the world and also alluded to Job 26:7.

I speak in the authority of Jesus Christ and the 2000 years of Christian saints who all agree with the simple message I have posted here.

Flat earthers cannot claim to speak in Jesus` name because Jesus Himself said He would return to a round earth, and ancient Christians also read globe earth from the Bible. FE has no argument and no root in Christianity. There is no flat earth tradition because the Bible does not teach it.

There is nothing that Josephus wrote that says that the earth is spherical, & there is nothing in the Job verse that says that the earth is spherical. They can both easily be interpreted as a flat earth.

There is absolutely nothing Jesus said about the subject matter either. Quote me the passage from the bible where it says that jesus would return to a 'round' earth?

The bible does not 'teach' anything about the shape of the earth. However many verses in the bible can be, & have been, interpreted as a flat earth. I dont look to the bible for lessons in science, or the shape of the earth, because there is no scientific knowledge in the bible. I look to the science!

Isaiah 40:22 -- "Globe of the Earth"

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