New York Has Prepared Paul Manafort Charges If Trump Pardons Him

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Good. He shouldn't be allowed to weasel out of charges on account of Donald.

New York Has Prepared Paul Manafort Charges If Trump Pardons Him
- Cy Vance has been investigating ex-Trump aide since 2017
- District Attorney sees way to avoid double jeopardy protection


New York state prosecutors have put together a criminal case against Paul Manafort that they could file quickly if the former chairman of Donald Trump’s 2016 campaign receives a presidential pardon.

New York County District Attorney Cyrus Vance Jr. is ready to file an array of tax and other charges against Manafort, according to two people familiar with the matter, something seen as an insurance policy should the president exercise his power to free the former aide. Skirting laws that protect defendants from being charged twice for the same offense has been one of Vance’s challenges.

Manafort was convicted of eight felonies, pleaded guilty to two more and is scheduled to be sentenced next month for those federal crimes. Prosecutors working for Special Counsel Robert Mueller have recommended as long as 24 years, a virtual life sentence, for the 69-year-old political consultant.

The president, who has bemoaned Manafort’s treatment at the hands of Mueller, said in November that he has not ruled out a pardon. He has frequently talked of his broad pardon power, possibly extending even to himself, and acted to liberate two political allies previously.
 

Silverback

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CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN

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So, instead of prosecuting him for crimes they have evidence for, they are holding off as some form of a 'gotcha'? What a bunch of scumbags.
Who Trump that will pardon his guilty friend or Paul Manafort. It seem like the prosecutor is doing what they need to do.
 
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iluvatar5150

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So, instead of prosecuting him for crimes they have evidence for, they are holding off as some form of a 'gotcha'? What a bunch of scumbags.

Yeah, with all the illegal and unsavory stuff Manafort's done, the guys trying to make sure he goes to prison are the scumbags. Nice priorities there.
 
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iluvatar5150

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I think this is wrong, if he gets a pardon, then he should go on with his life as a free man. That's what a pardon is for.

Pardons aren't for rewarding loyalty to the one handing out the pardon.
 
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Silverback

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Pardons aren't for rewarding loyalty to the one handing out the pardon.

Pardons are an act of grace by the President. They are for what the President says they are for. And are not reviewed outside the executive.
 
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EpiscipalMe

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So, instead of prosecuting him for crimes they have evidence for, they are holding off as some form of a 'gotcha'? What a bunch of scumbags.

If he is going to federal prison for the rest of his life, why should the state of New York waste time and resources on a trial?

I think this is wrong, if he gets a pardon, then he should go on with his life as a free man. That's what a pardon is for.

The President can only pardon for federal offenses.
 
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Pardons are an act of grace by the President. They are for what the President says they are for. And are not reviewed outside the executive.

Is that really a precedent you want to set? President pardoning criminals doing their bidding?

What would the Founding Fathers think of that?
 
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iluvatar5150

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Pardons are an act of grace by the President. They are for what the President says they are for. And are not reviewed outside the executive.

Right - they're an act of grace. They're not (supposed to be) a quid pro quo rewarding loyalty to someone engaged in a criminal conspiracy.

Paul Manafort is a criminal. It's quite possible that Trump is also a criminal. Trump handing Manafort a pardon as a "thank you" is not in keeping with the spirit of the power to pardon (even if it's technically legal). There's nothing immoral or unseemly about trying to defend against corrupt behavior like this on the part of the president.
 
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Silverback

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If he is going to federal prison for the rest of his life, why should the state of New York waste time and resources on a trial?



The President can only pardon for federal offenses.

Maybe, maybe...I'm not so sure the Current SCOTUS would agree. There are many people who believe the President has the power, and I'm not sure if it has ever been attempted. It is a minority view though. IMHO, I think he has the power.
 
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wing2000

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So, instead of prosecuting him for crimes they have evidence for, they are holding off as some form of a 'gotcha'? What a bunch of scumbags.

How do you know New York doesn't have evidence? And states prosecutors hold off on state level prosecutions routinely when more Federal charges are in process....
 
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Silverback

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Is that really a precedent you want to set? President pardoning criminals doing their bidding?

What would the Founding Fathers think of that?

All Presidential pardons are given to criminals, if they weren't criminals they would not need to be pardoned.

As far as setting a precedent goes, it would be much worse if the power to pardon was taken away, or had to be approved by congress, or a court.

No one is happy with everyone who receives a pardon, but if that power is lost it would be a grave injustice.

I think the founding fathers would be more concerned with restrictions placed on pardons than one elderly man being set free. BTW, the founding fathers would also consider a New York retrial as double jeopardy.
 
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EpiscipalMe

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Maybe, maybe...I'm not so sure the Current SCOTUS would agree. There are many people who believe the President has the power, and I'm not sure if it has ever been attempted. It is a minority view though. IMHO, I think he has the power.

The Constitution specifically references crimes against the US, which is reasonably interpreted as federal crimes:
"he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States"
Article Two of the United States Constitution - Wikipedia

The US Justice Department interprets it this way:
"Under the Constitution, only federal criminal convictions, such as those adjudicated in the United States District Courts, may be pardoned by the President."
Pardon Information and Instructions

And, one would think that Constitutional conservatives like the majority of SCOTUS would support states' rights and not allow POTUS to pardon for state crimes. Unless, of course, they bend to the will of Trump, which I doubt they would in this case.
 
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Ringo84

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Pardons are an act of grace by the President. They are for what the President says they are for. And are not reviewed outside the executive.

Then that's a Constitutional edge case that needs to be changed when Donny slithers out of the Oval Office. Pardoning your cronies is an abuse of power.
Ringo
 
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So, instead of prosecuting him for crimes they have evidence for, they are holding off as some form of a 'gotcha'? What a bunch of scumbags.
Just not wasting resources. If he’s already going to prison for the rest of his life, no need to like on the sentences.
 
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Sparagmos

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Staying in our hypothetical. Can’t Trump just pardon him a second time?
Fox News doesn’t really explain presidential pardons, I’m guessing?
 
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iluvatar5150

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Staying in our hypothetical. Can’t Trump just pardon him a second time?

The president can only pardon federal crimes, not state or local crimes. AFAIK, NY State double jeopardy law (and AFAIK, this varies by state) prevents someone pardoned or acquitted at the federal level from being re-tried at the state level for those same crimes.

What these prosecutors are doing is holding some things in reserve so that, in case Trump pardons Manafort's federal crimes, they have other charges that they can file at the state level that Trump can't pardon.
 
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Staying in our hypothetical. Can’t Trump just pardon him a second time?

No. Trump can only pardon federal charges. State charges are pardoned by the state governor.
 
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