Jesus is our sabbath

StrivingFollower

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I don't think the Sabbath draws God's strict judgement. As Jesus said "it was made for man." But think about its purpose. When I try to make a Sabbath holy it does make me feel good and bring me closer to God. That's the value of it. So what's important overall is that you're devoting enough time and energy to God. But it's easy to put something off when you don't have a designated day.
 
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ace of hearts

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Jesus is "LORD of the Sabbath" Mark 2:28 that is in the actual Bible but "Jesus is our Sabbath" is not.

You cannot "remember Jesus to keep Jesus Holy" - Jesus is already Holy.

Col 1 "all things were made BY Him and FOR Him" that is right mankind WAS MADE FOR Jesus and BY Jesus.

By contrast to the Sabbath

The "Sabbath was made FOR mankind and not mankind for the Sabbath" excludes the "Jesus is our Sabbath" speculation that some would try to add to the text that makes it -- "Jesus made for mankind not mankind FOR Jesus"



On the contrary - all things were made by Christ and for Christ -- this is irrefutable as both Colossians 1:16 and John 1:1-6 make clear.
Only for those who want to push a false doctrine and the casual reader who isn't paying attention. You need to understand the pronouns refer to.

Col 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

The things that were created were done by God the Father Who also delivered us from darkness, translated us into the kingdom of His dear Son. It's rather odd to me that these inserted facts change the Him in verse 16 from God the Father to Jesus the Son.

So unless you change the reference of the pronoun there's no support for you concept to support Jesus issuing the famous 10. Besides that you must deal with Jn 1:17 which clearly say the law didn't by Jesus.
Rev 4 and 5 do not argue against Christ (God the Son) as the creator - in fact all three as we see in Genesis member of the Godhead were involved.
So you want to argue agency to discredit the clear statements of Rev 4 and 5. What is true is your refusal to believe the Scripture.
Much better than going around calling various Bible writers "liars".
It's you who claims the Scripture isn't consistent with and disagrees with itself. What you're is proving you don't believe the Scripture.
When you say Jesus "had a part" in Creation

Col 1 "all things were made BY Him and FOR Him" that is right mankind WAS MADE FOR Jesus and BY Jesus.

That means the mankind was made FOR Jesus -- not Jesus made FOR the mankind.

By contrast the Sabbath was made FOR mankind.
Your error has been exposed.
When you say "Jesus had a part" in creation.

John 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
...
9 There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.
You have the pronouns misaligned. This allows you to promote false doctrine and divide the Scripture against itself making it an unreliable work of fiction.
You say that like I wrote the book of Hebrews.

Heb 8
Now the main point in what has been said is this: we have such a high priest, who has taken His seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, 2 a minister in the sanctuary and in the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, not man...
4 Now if He (Jesus) were on earth, He (Jesus) would not be a priest at all, since there are those who offer the gifts according to the Law; 5 who serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly things, just as Moses was warned by God when he was about to erect the tabernacle; for, “See,” He (Jesus) says, “that you make all things according to the pattern which was shown you on the mountain.” 6 But now He (Jesus) has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He (Jesus) is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. 8 For finding fault with them, He (Jesus) says,
Thank you for making my point with verse 1 about Who sits on the throne in Rev 5 and gives the book to the Lamb - Jesus.
“Behold, days are coming, says the LORD (YHWH) -- JESUS,
When I (Jesus) will effect a new covenant
With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 Not like the covenant which I (Jesus) made with their fathers
On the day when I (Jesus) took them by the hand
To lead them out of the land of Egypt;
For they did not continue in My covenant,
And I did not care for them, says the Lord.
10 “For this is the covenant that I (Jesus) will make with the house of Israel
After those days, says the Lord:
I (Jesus) will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
And they shall be My people
Your inserted bold makes Jeremiah a false prophet.
It was Jesus speaking at Sinai according to that text.
You assert here exactly what I said you believe and promote through the misuse of both Col 1 and JN 1.
 
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ace of hearts

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I don't think the Sabbath draws God's strict judgement. As Jesus said "it was made for man." But think about its purpose. When I try to make a Sabbath holy it does make me feel good and bring me closer to God. That's the value of it. So what's important overall is that you're devoting enough time and energy to God. But it's easy to put something off when you don't have a designated day.
So your claim is those who worship on Sunday don't set aside time strictly for God.
 
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StrivingFollower

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So your claim is those who worship on Sunday don't set aside time strictly for God.
No I didn't mean that. But like a person could go to church on Sunday and spend the rest of the day doing stupid stuff.
 
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BobRyan

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Jesus is "LORD of the Sabbath" Mark 2:28 that is in the actual Bible but "Jesus is our Sabbath" is not.

You cannot "remember Jesus to keep Jesus Holy" - Jesus is already Holy.

Col 1 "all things were made BY Him and FOR Him" that is right mankind WAS MADE FOR Jesus and BY Jesus.

By contrast to the Sabbath

The "Sabbath was made FOR mankind and not mankind for the Sabbath" excludes the "Jesus is our Sabbath" speculation that some would try to add to the text that makes it -- "Jesus made for mankind not mankind FOR Jesus"

I understand the misconception of what is usually taught by this passage. What you're trying to imply contradicts Rev 4 and 5

On the contrary - all things were made by Christ and for Christ -- this is irrefutable as both Colossians 1:16 and John 1:1-6 make clear.

Rev 4 and 5 do not argue against Christ (God the Son) as the creator - in fact all three as we see in Genesis member of the Godhead were involved.

Much better than going around calling various Bible writers "liars".

God gets sole credit for and as Creator in Revelation. I don't deny Jesus had a part in creation.

When you say Jesus "had a part" in Creation

Col 1 "all things were made BY Him and FOR Him" that is right mankind WAS MADE FOR Jesus and BY Jesus.

That means the mankind was made FOR Jesus -- not Jesus made FOR the mankind.

By contrast the Sabbath was made FOR mankind.

When you say "Jesus had a part" in creation.

John 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
...
9 There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.

The real point of my Rev 4 and 5 is an anti-thesis to your idea Jesus is the One Who issued the famous 10.

You say that like I wrote the book of Hebrews.

Heb 8
Now the main point in what has been said is this: we have such a high priest, who has taken His seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, 2 a minister in the sanctuary and in the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, not man...
4 Now if He (Jesus) were on earth, He (Jesus) would not be a priest at all, since there are those who offer the gifts according to the Law; 5 who serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly things, just as Moses was warned by God when he was about to erect the tabernacle; for, “See,” He (Jesus) says, “that you make all things according to the pattern which was shown you on the mountain.” 6 But now He (Jesus) has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He (Jesus) is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. 8 For finding fault with them, He (Jesus) says,

“Behold, days are coming, says the LORD (YHWH) -- JESUS,
When I (Jesus) will effect a new covenant
With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 Not like the covenant which I (Jesus) made with their fathers
On the day when I (Jesus) took them by the hand
To lead them out of the land of Egypt;
For they did not continue in My covenant,
And I did not care for them, says the Lord.
10 “For this is the covenant that I (Jesus) will make with the house of Israel
After those days, says the Lord:
I (Jesus) will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
And they shall be My people

It was Jesus speaking at Sinai according to that text.

Only for those who want to push a false doctrine

We can get that response to scriptures all day long from those who object to its teaching in the text quoted. No news there.

And since your "solution" is to ignore every text quoted -- fine.

I am going to stick with the actual Bible.
 
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ace of hearts

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No I didn't mean that. But like a person could go to church on Sunday and spend the rest of the day doing stupid stuff.
So are you upset because people don't transfer the regulations of the sabbath to Sunday? Why would that bother you?
 
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StrivingFollower

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So are you upset because people don't transfer the regulations of the sabbath to Sunday? Why would that bother you?
I'm not upset like I said I don't think it's a big sin. There are hundreds of sins listed in the Bible, we naturally have to focus on the heavier ones if we can have any hope to improve as people. I was talking about seeing the value in this law. It's about connecting more with God. The Sabbath can inspire this.
 
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ace of hearts

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I'm not upset like I said I don't think it's a big sin. There are hundreds of sins listed in the Bible, we naturally have to focus on the heavier ones if we can have any hope to improve as people. I was talking about seeing the value in this law. It's about connecting more with God. The Sabbath can inspire this.
Then the reality of speaking against others for not keeping the sabbath has no purpose.
 
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BobRyan

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I don't think the Sabbath draws God's strict judgement. .

the Bible says "sin is transgression of the Law" 1 John 3:4
and it says
"to him that knows to do right and does it not - to him it is sin" James 4:17
So then we cannot be the conscience for someone else - but neither can we lull them to sleep thinking that this or that part of God's Law does not matter so much ... just if you feel like keeping it.

Notice this perfect example in Mark 7:6-13 - the last thing in the world the Jews were thinking was that they were in danger of "God's strict judgment" regarding a very minor tweak they were making ... But Jesus said to them in that regard "in vain do they worship Me" for trying to finesse a command putting just a tiny bit of "spin" on it.
 
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BobRyan

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No I didn't mean that. But like a person could go to church on Sunday and spend the rest of the day doing stupid stuff.

Reminds me:

D.L. Moody is very explicit on the Sabbath Commandment in Eden.

==================== D.L. Moody on the Sabbath Commandment

The Fourth Commandment

Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the LORD made heaven and Earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath Day, and hallowed it.



THERE HAS BEEN an awful letting-down in this country regarding the Sabbath during the last twenty-five years, and many a man has been shorn of spiritual power, like Samson, because he is not straight on this question. Can you say that you observe the Sabbath properly? You may be a professed Christian: are you obeying this commandment? Or do you neglect the house of God on the Sabbath day, and spend your time drinking and carousing in places of vice and crime, showing contempt for God and His law? Are you ready to step into the scales? Where were you last Sabbath? How did you spend it?

I honestly believe that this commandment is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place.
"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27)
It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was- in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.

The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?

I believe that the Sabbath question today is a vital one for the whole country. It is the burning question of the present time. If you give up the Sabbath the church goes; if you give up the church the home goes; and if the home goes the nation goes. That is the direction in which we are traveling.

The church of God is losing its power on account of so many people giving up the Sabbath, and using it to promote selfishness.
from: THE TEN COMMANDMENTS text by D. L. Moody

==================

Why is Moody so "focused"???

Is it this?

"The Sabbath was made for mankind" Mark 2:27
Is 66:23 "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship"
Is 56:6-8 gentiles "specifically" singled out for Sabbath keeping (700 years B.C)
Gen 2:1-3 Sabbath given to all mankind in Eden -

==========

Genesis 2:1-3 and Exodus 20:11 in the Sabbath commandment to see WHEN it was made into a holy day for all mankind.

Gen 2
Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts. 2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

Ex 20:11
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

It was done in Genesis 2.
 
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BobRyan

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as even the Sunday groups freely admit when they argue that all mankind was given all TEN of the TEN Commandments in Eden.

Which I keep pointing out here -

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

===================

- it is the seventh-day keepers of Acts 15 to whom they bring the problem and ask for a solution - and get a solution.

Notice that James is the same one that has "people" that intimidate Peter into no longer "eating with the gentiles". So then "yep" -- Sabbath keeping for sure.

Beyond that little nit -- the basic details of ALL TEN commandments as the moral law of God binding on all mankind since the garden of Eden and do so still to this very day - a Bible detail so obvious that both sides of this discussion agree.

========================

Westminster Confession of Faith

Westminster Confession of Faith

Chapter XIX
Of the Law of God
I. God gave to Adam a law, as a covenant of works, by which he bound him and all his posterity, to personal, entire, exact, and perpetual obedience, promised life upon the fulfilling, and threatened death upon the breach of it, and endued him with power and ability to keep it.[1]

II. This law, after his fall, continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness; and, as such, was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai, in Ten Commandments, and written in two tables:[2] the first four commandments containing our duty towards God; and the other six, our duty to man.[3]

III. Besides this law, commonly called moral, God was pleased to give to the people of Israel, as a church under age, ceremonial laws, containing several typical ordinances, partly of worship, prefiguring Christ, his graces, actions, sufferings, and benefits;[4] and partly, holding forth divers instructions of moral duties.[5] All which ceremonial laws are now abrogated, under the New Testament.[6]

IV. To them also, as a body politic, he gave sundry judicial laws, which expired together with the State of that people; not obliging under any now, further than the general equity thereof may require.[7]

V. The moral law does forever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof;[8] and that, not only in regard of the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God the Creator, who gave it.[9] Neither does Christ, in the Gospel, any way dissolve, but much strengthen this obligation.[10]

VI. Although true believers be not under the law, as a covenant of works, to be thereby justified, or condemned;[11] yet is it of great use to them, as well as to others; in that, as a rule of life informing them of the will of God, and their duty, it directs and binds them to walk accordingly;[12] discovering also the sinful pollutions of their nature, hearts and lives;[13] so as, examining themselves thereby, they may come to further conviction of, humiliation for, and hatred against sin,[14] together with a clearer sight of the need they have of Christ, and the perfection of his obedience.[15] It is likewise of use to the regenerate, to restrain their corruptions, in that it forbids sin:[16] and the threatenings of it serve to show what even their sins deserve; and what afflictions, in this life, they may expect for them, although freed from the curse thereof threatened in the law.[17] The promises of it, in like manner, show them God's approbation of obedience,and what blessings they may expect upon the performance thereof:[18] although not as due to them by the law as a covenant of works.[19] So as, a man's doing good, and refraining from evil, because the law encourages to the one and deters from the other, is no evidence of his being under the law: and not under grace.[20]

VII. Neither are the forementioned uses of the law contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but do sweetly comply with it;[21] the Spirit of Christ subduing and enabling the will of man to do that freely, and cheerfully, which the will of God, revealed in the law, requires to be done.[22]

==================================== all TEN


The Baptist Confession of Faith (1689)

Section 19

19. The Law of God
  1. God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience which was written in his heart, and He gave him very specific instruction about not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. By this Adam and all his descendants were bound to personal, total, exact, and perpetual obedience, being promised life upon the fulfilling of the law, and threatened with death upon the breach of it. At the same time Adam was endued with power and ability to keep it.

  2. The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the Ten Commandments, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.

  3. Besides this law, commonly called the moral law, God was pleased do give the people of Israel ceremonial laws containing several typical ordinances. These ordinances were partly about their worship, and in them Christ was prefigured along with His attributes and qualities, His actions, His sufferings and His benefits. These ordinances also gave instructions about different moral duties. All of these ceremonial laws were appointed only until the time of reformation, when Jesus Christ the true Messiah and the only lawgiver, Who was furnished with power from the Father for this end, cancelled them and took them away.


  4. To the people of Israel He also gave sundry judicial laws which expired when they ceased to be a nation. These are not binding on anyone now by virtue of their being part of the laws of that nation, but their general equity continue to be applicable in modern times.


  5. The moral law ever binds to obedience everyone, justified people as well as others, and not only out of regard for the matter contained in it, but also out of respect for the authority of God the Creator, Who gave the law. Nor does Christ in the Gospel dissolve this law in any way, but He considerably strengthens our obligation to obey it.


  6. Although true believers are not under the law as a covenant of works, to be justified or condemned by it, yet it is of great use to them as well as to others, because as a rule of life it informs them of the will of God and their duty and directs and binds them to walk accordingly. It also reveals and exposes the sinful pollutions of their natures, hearts and lives, and using it for self-examination they may come to greater conviction of sin, greater humility and greater hatred of their sin. They will also gain a clearer sight of their need of Christ and the perfection of His own obedience. It is of further use to regenerate people to restrain their corruptions, because of the way in which it forbids sin. The threatenings of the law serve to show what their sins actually deserve, and what troubles may be expected in this life because of these sins even by regenerate people who are freed from the curse and undiminished rigours of the law. The promises connected with the law also show believers God's approval of obedience, and what blessings they may expect when the law is kept and obeyed, though blessing will not come to them because they have satisfied the law as a covenant of works. If a man does good and refrains from evil simply because the law encourages to the good and deters him from the evil, that is no evidence that he is under the law rather than under grace.


  7. The aforementioned uses of the law are not contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but they sweetly comply with it, as the Spirit of Christ subdues and enables the will of man to do freely and cheerfully those things which the will of God, which is revealed in the law, requires to be done.
=================================


Notice the "details" in the "Baptist Confession of Faith"

1. TEN Commandments included in the LAW of God given to mankind in Eden.
2. SAME law given at Sinai as the MORAL Law of God.
3. That law binds all mankind after the cross and before it.
4. It is perfectly consistent with grace and therefore the Gospel
5. Laws OTHER than the TEN commandments were given to Israel and those other laws included the ceremonial laws - which are no longer in place after the cross.

The Westminster Confession of Faith - section 19 makes the SAME 5 points.

====================
The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

===================

They all confess that ALL TEN of the TEN Commandments were applicable to all mankind in Eden.
 
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BobRyan

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So are you upset because people don't transfer the regulations of the sabbath to Sunday? Why would that bother you?

It would only "bother" someone who knew that the Commandments of God "matter" according to 1 Cor 7:19 and Rev 14:12... lots of other folks would not give it a second thought.
 
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safswan

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Whereas some,erroneously ascribe the law to Israel only,the scriptures and logical reasoning deny this.


“For there is no respect of persons with God.For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.”(Romans 2:11-13)


How could God give this law to His people whom he loved so much and which some claim they could not keep but then preclude Gentiles from this law as some claim?This neither scriptural nor logical and many over the years in recognizing this have taught that the ten commandment law is to be observed and is an essential part of Christian doctrine.Here are some views about the law and ten commandments:



"We believe that the law of God is the eternal and imperishable rule of His moral government."
—Baptist Church Manual.



"The first four commandments set forth man's obligations directly toward God.... The fourth commandment sets forth God's claim on man's time and thought.... Not one of the ten words [commandments] is of merely racial significance.... The Sabbath was established originally [long before Moses] in no special connection with the Hebrews, but as an institution for all mankind, in commemoration of God's rest after six days of creation. It was designed for all the descendants of Adam."
—Adult Quarterly, Southern Baptist Convention series, Aug. 15, 1937.



Q. 46. What did God at first reveal to man for the rule of his obedience?
A. The rule which God at first revealed to man for his obedience was the moral law. (Rom. 2:14,15; 5:13,14)
Q. 47. Where is the moral law summarily comprehended?
A. The moral law is summarily comprehended in the Ten Commandments. (Deut. 10:4; Matt. 19:17)
Q. 48. What is the sum of the Ten Commandments?
A. The sum of the Ten Commandments is, to love the Lord our God, with all our heart, with all our soul, with all our strength, and with all our mind; and our neighbor as ourselves. (Matt. 22:36-40; Mark 12:28-33)
Q. 49. What is the preface to the Ten Commandments?
A. The preface to the Ten Commandments is, "I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage." (Exodus 20:2)
Q. 50. What does the preface to the Ten Commandments teach us?
A. The preface to the Ten Commandments teaches us, that because God is the Lord, and our God and Redeemer, therefore we are bound to keep all His commandments. (Deut 11:1)
—Benjamin Keach's Catechism, 1677




The moral law doth for ever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof, and that not only in regard of the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God the Creator, who gave it; neither doth Christ in the Gospel any way dissolve, but much strengthen this obligation.
—1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith, Chapter 19, Section 5



Q. (36) What is sin?
A. It is a transgression of the law. I Jn. iii. 4.
Q. (37) A transgression of what law?
A. Of the law of our nature, and of the law of the ten commandments as written in the holy scriptures. Ro. ii. 12-15. Ex. xx,
Q. (38) When doth one sin against the law of nature?
A. When you do anything that your conscience tells you is a transgression against God or man. Ru. ii. 14, 15.
Q. (39) When do we sin against the law as written in the ten commandments?
A. When you do anything that they forbid, although you be ignorant of it. Ps. xix. 12.
Q. (40) How many ways are there to sin against this law?
A. Three: by sinful thoughts, by sinful words, and also by sinful actions. Ro. vii. 7; ii. 6. Mat. v. 28; xii. 37.
Q. (41) What if we sin but against one of the ten commandments?
A. Whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all; ?For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now, if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.? Ja. ii. 10, 11.
—John Bunyan's Catechism




Of John Smyth:
He believed that 'the Magistrates should cause all men to worship the true God'and enforce both tables of the Ten Commandments. (THEOLOGICAL POSITIONS OF JOHN SMYTH)


These are just a few of the comments, from chiefly one denomination, which show the way the ten commandments were viewed. The problems which developed later in time was as a result of how the Sabbath was to be treated. Was there a new Sabbath instituted in Sunday or was the Sabbath now converted to the Lord’s Day or is the Sabbath now in Christ since He is our rest? These varying views, I believe led to many speaking against the law in general in order to eliminate this dilemma and have led to many divorcing themselves from the ten commandments in order to “escape” from the Sabbath.When confronted about why they observe nine of the ten they say:


“There are many places in the New Testament that make it clear that murder is a sin even if the Old Testament had never been written….I am one who claims to keep nine out of ten, and it's because I can find in the New Testament where it clearly tells me that nine of them are commanded for me, as a Christian, to keep. In fact, five of them are spoken by Jesus in Matt 19.”


The fact is, the early believers were more accurate and sincere in their beliefs and about the law and ten commandments and some did see the truth about the Sabbath while others simply stuck to what was traditional and which did not cause contention and upheaval in their systems of belief. However we need to be honest with the scriptures and ourselves and let the chips fall where they will and then deal with the consequences of the same.

safswan.
 
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ace of hearts

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Whereas some,erroneously ascribe the law to Israel only,the scriptures and logical reasoning deny this.
Who did this? Are these passages in error -

Deut 4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

Deut 5:1 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.

2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.

3 The Lord made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.
 
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safswan

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Who did this? Are these passages in error -

Deut 4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

Deut 5:1 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.

2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.

3 The Lord made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.


So the agreement was only with those who were alive that day and with no one else?
 
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safswan

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Who did this? Are these passages in error -

Deut 4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

Deut 5:1 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.

2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.

3 The Lord made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

Since you haven't/couldn't answer my question about the above then let me help you.


This is what results when you study the scriptures superficially.If you had read carefully the rest of the book from which you quote then you would have seen this:

Deuteronomy 29:

9Keep therefore the words of this covenant, and do them, that ye may prosper in all that ye do.
10Ye stand this day all of you before the LORD your God; your captains of your tribes, your elders, and your officers, with all the men of Israel,
11Your little ones, your wives, and thy stranger that is in thy camp, from the hewer of thy wood unto the drawer of thy water:
12That thou shouldest enter into covenant with the LORD thy God, and into his oath, which the LORD thy God maketh with thee this day:
13That he may establish thee to day for a people unto himself, and that he may be unto thee a God, as he hath said unto thee, and as he hath sworn unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob.
14Neither with you only do I make this covenant and this oath;
15But with him that standeth here with us this day before the LORD our God, and also with him that is not here with us this day:




Other passages show this is not only applicable to the descendants of Israel when it says:




Exodus 12:
49One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.


Leviticus 24:
22Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country: for I am the LORD your God.


Numbers 15:
15One ordinance shall be both for you of the congregation, and also for the stranger that sojourneth with you, an ordinance for ever in your generations: as ye are, so shall the stranger be before the LORD.
16One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you.



And if you think this was only for those who by chance came to be among the people of Israel,then the following scriptures should dispel that erroneous view:



Isaiah 56:
1Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.
2Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.
3Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.
4For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
5Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.
6Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;
7Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.



Jeremiah 12:

14Thus saith the LORD against all mine evil neighbours, that touch the inheritance which I have caused my people Israel to inherit; Behold, I will pluck them out of their land, and pluck out the house of Judah from among them.
15And it shall come to pass, after that I have plucked them out I will return, and have compassion on them, and will bring them again, every man to his heritage, and every man to his land.
16And it shall come to pass, if they will diligently learn the ways of my people, to swear by my name, The LORD liveth; as they taught my people to swear by Baal; then shall they be built in the midst of my people.
17But if they will not obey, I will utterly pluck up and destroy that nation, saith the LORD.



Definitely not only for Israel.

If you had even read carefully the actual Sabbath command then you would not have made that error:

Exodus 20:
8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
 
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safswan

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THE TRUE REST OF THE LORD​



"Thus saith the Lord,stand ye in the ways and see,and ask for the old paths,where is the good way,and walk therein,and ye shall find rest for your soul..."[Jeremiah 6:16]




The people of Israel did not have the faith to heed this and other preaching and hence could not enter this rest:



"....But they said;we will not walk therein."[Jeremiah 6:16;Hebrews 4:1,2;Romans 9:31,32]



Jesus made this call when He preached on earth and this is the day which David prophesied about,that when we hear His voice we should not harden our hearts,even as hearts were hardened when Jeremiah and others preached.




Jesus said:

"Come unto me,all ye that are heavy laden, and I will give you rest;Take my yoke upon you,and learn of me;for I am meek and lowly in heart;and ye shall find rest unto your souls."[Matthew 11:28,29;Luke 4:16-21; Hebrews 3:6-8;4:7;Psalm 95:7-9]

Hence we see that this call by Jeremiah,Jesus and others,is a call encouraging us to drop the burden of sin and our own ways and learn of Jesus in order to take up righteousness.[Romans 6:16-23;II Peter 2:19;I Corinthians 5:7,8;Romans 8:3,4;Ephesians 4:20-24]

It is not about Jesus replacing the seventh day Sabbath but is a call God is constantly sending out to His people pleading with them to turn from sin.
 
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safswan

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THE REAL SHADOW

"Let no man therefore judge you in meat,or in drink,or in respect of an holy day,or of the new moon,or of the Sabbath days:which are a shadow of things to come;but the body is of Christ."[Colossians 2:16,17]

This scripture is the one most easily used to say, the Sabbath is no longer to be observed as this was only a shadow of things to come.

An examination of the context however will reveal clearly that the Sabbath mentioned in the passage could not be a reference to the weekly Sabbath.

The scriptures do show Paul affirming the ten commandments and the law in general as being used by the Christian to identify sin and for us to know what is love.[Romans 13:8-9;7:7;I Timothy 1:8-11]


How could he,in Colossians 2:16,17,be proscribing Sabbath observance.This would be contradictory not only to his own writings but also to the whole counsel of scripture.[Matthew 5:17-20;19:16-19;I John 3:4; James 2:9-12;Romans 2:11-13]

Paul in Colossians 2,is explaining the value of Christ to those who have believed in him. He says:

"And ye are complete in him....In whom also ye are circumcised....,in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ.[Colossians 2:10,11]

He elaborates:

"And you being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh,hath he quickened together with Him,having forgiven you all trespasses;blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us,which was contrary to us and took it out of the way,nailing it to His cross."[Colossians 2:13,14]


From the above we see that Jesus by His death on the cross has caused our sins to be forgiven.This happened because His death caused the handwriting of ordinances which were against us to be blotted out.But what are these handwriting of ordinances?


The passage implies,sins were committed, which put into effect ordinances, which were against us because of these sins.

Some claim they were the ten commandments ie. get rid of the law and apparently you will get rid of sin.If this was so then there would be no need for Christ to die.Others say they were the written records of our sins.The text and scriptures do not support either claim.


handwriting - cheirographos(Grk),something hand written ie.,a manuscript,spec.a legal document or bond ie.a covenant or binding agreement.

ordinances - dogma(Grk),a law.

Without various human philosophies which try to interpret this phrase,the meaning is clear.The handwriting of ordinances which were against us refers to a legal document or a law by which persons are bound and which had to do with our sins.


Were the ten commandments against us because they show us our sins? No.[Romans 7:7-13;I John 5:3]


"For sin,taking occasion by the commandment,deceived me,and by it slew me.Wherefore the law is holy,and the commandment holy just and good."[Romans 7:11,12]

The problem is sin and the fact that sin brings a curse and death which was prescribed by the law.These are the handwriting of ordinances which were against us.The most far reaching of these ordinances was found in Deuteronomy 27:26:


"Cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of the law to do them.And all the people shall say amen."[See also, Deuteronomy 27:1-26;Ezekiel 18:4,20]


Paul in commenting on this said:


"Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law,being made a curse for us:for it is written,Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree."[Galatians 3:13;see,vs.10-12]


Surely a curse is against us and would require either the life of the sinner or of some suitable substitute.Christ is now that substitute according to the apostle Paul.[Colossians 2:13,14;Galatians 3:13.] Prior to Christ,how was this done?

The focus of Paul in Colossians 2:10-15 is to show that the work of Christ is sufficient to make us righteous in God's sight.The curse is removed and those practices which mitigated against the curse are now no longer necessary because of Christ's death also.Hence Paul says:

"Let no man therefore judge you in meat and drink....."[Colossians 2:16,17]

The offerings and sacrifices made in the old covenant to mitigate against the curse are replaced by the one and perfect sacrifice of Christ.

"For the law having a shadow of good things to come and not the very image of the things,can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect....For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats should take away sins."[Hebrews 10:1-4]

"Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. [Hebrews 9:9-12]

It is the sacrifices and feasts in which they took place year by year that are the shadows of Colossians 2:16,17.[See,Leviticus 23]

"These are the feasts of the Lord,which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations,to offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord,a burnt offering,and a meat offering,a sacrifice,and drink offerings,everything upon His day."[Leviticus 23:37;Hebrews 9:6-10]

These yearly feasts had Sabbaths attached to them(holy convocations) and it is these which are being referred to in Colossians 2:16,17, not the Sabbath of the ten commandments. Special sacrifices and activities also took place on the new moon which was important in determining the times for the feasts.[Numbers 10:10;28:11]

Paul is simply trying to show that the Lord Jesus has replaced those sacrifices and hence we longer have to perform them nor keep the feasts and days in which these were scheduled to occur.

Note that the weekly Sabbath was made long before Israel and before sin came into the world,whereas the feasts and associated Sabbaths were introduced because of sin and the need to atone for the same.[Jeremiah 7:21-23;Galatians 3:19:Genesis 2:1,2;Mark 2:27.]
 
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Malihah

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Are Christians really required to observe the 7th day or else they take the mark of the beast as some SDA claim?

How do you address these verses then?

Colossians 1
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a feast day or a new moon or a sabbath day: 17 which are a shadow of the things to come; but the body is Christ's.

Galatians 4
8 Howbeit at that time, not knowing God, ye were in bondage to them that by nature are no gods: 9 but now that ye have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how turn ye back again to the weak and beggarly rudiments, whereunto ye desire to be in bondage over again?

10 Ye observe days, and months, and seasons, and years.

11 I am afraid of you, lest by any means I have bestowed labor upon you in vain.


So would these prove that Sabbath can be anyday? Also sabbath is a day of rest, you cannot work or go buying things, start a fire. Why would we be under the law again.

Is it a sin not to observe the 7th day Sabbath? It just doesn't seem so from the Bible. Old Covenant is different from New, if you pick and choose from old covenant why not follow the whole law then?

Great post!
 
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