Are Roleplaying Games Sinful?

dms1972 · Feb 21, 2019

Kenny'sID said:
Some of us don't give the story of the RPG a second thought, we just like the challenge of the kill...perfectly innocent.

I agree that people can play a game simply as a game, and not immerse themselves in it. The backstory in Oblivion doesn't interest me a lot, I mainly bought the game to see the graphics, which were in advance of everything else at the time.

Kenny'sID · Feb 21, 2019

dms1972 said:
I agree that people can play a game simply as a game, and not immerse themselves in it. The backstory in Oblivion doesn't interest me a lot, I mainly bought the game to see the graphics, which were in advance of everything else at the time.

I used to play everything through to the end, but today I'll only do that with a few... far cry, tomb raider, the AC's, some army games and such. I keep meaning to get back to Oblivion...but. I often just like to see what they're doing with the graphics/game play, and if I get one I like enough to play through, even better.

They help me to relax and get my mind off things. If gaming was all I did it would be a problem, but at this point, I think it's just a fascination or even a tool to help out with life's pressures. Lately I find I do very little of it, bit don't feel the least bit guilty for what I do play.

I'm thinking Jason has some misunderstandings, and possibly about how this works with "most" people.

DamianWarS · Feb 21, 2019

Jason0047 said:
Yes. Jesus says you can commit adultery in your heart by lusting after a woman (Which is committing the sin in your mind, i.e. role playing or fantasizing).

So if you can commit adultery in your mind, and be condemned for it (See Matthew 5:28-30), then you can be condemned for fantasizing about other kinds of sins.

Both the Lord of the Rings and the Narnia Series promote magic and do not see sorcery as a problem. Are you simply unaware that the Bible condemns sorcery and that God told his people to kill sorcerers or do you think that this sin is not that big of a deal? What about cartoon inappropriate content movies? Is this an okay sin seeing it is simply fantasy? What makes the sin of sexual immorality any worse than say sorcery? Are they both not equally bad? Is not the promotion of these sins in these films just as equally bad?

if I imagine having sex with someone who is not my wife it is the same as actually committing adultery because in both circumstances my heart is guilty. However if I imagine doing magic it is not the same as sorcery itself. This is because to actually commit sorcery you must draw power from dark supernatural forces and this is the sin. If I imagine only the manifestation without the interaction with these forces the manifestation stands on its own merits but does not inherit the sin of sorcery. The sin of the heart happens when you imagine interacting with the force of darkness while acting out the magic. So for example I may act out stealing or visualize it in my head and not be guilty of stealing, it becomes sinful when stealing reflects a desire of my heart. With sorcery the desire is seeking the supernatural power from outside yourself, however the manifestation of the power can be separated and then innocently acted out. For example reading a book visualizing you are flying.

Jason0047 said:
As for books being an escape: Well, the Bible is an escape. It is an escape from this world and it's wicked ways. God uses the Bible to transform our heart by accepting Jesus as our savior and in living for Him and His righteous and good ways (Whereby we pick up our cross and deny ourselves). But the Bible does not make us to escape reality altogether. The Bible helps us to truly love. To love God and to love others properly. True Christian books are more watered down version of the Bible, but they are to lead people to Christ or to inspire people to follow the Lord, or to deepen their walk with God in obeying Him (or by learning more about Him). Secular books just offer an escape into some fantasy world that is usually sinful in some way. This is for pure entertainment alone and to serve one's lusts.

we all get that, but this skirts around the issue. non-christian books are not inherently evil. In the case of the Narina series it is a Christian book with a Christian message and in the case of LOTR it's not explicitly a Christian message but Tolkien believed that you don't have to write the explicit gospel for it to exist and it naturally will pour out of a believer, as such there are a lot of gospel metaphors in the text. But in books written by non-believers, they too are not inherently evil and if supernatural powers exist within the books it's the source of the power that can be labelled evil.

Harry Potter and Star Wars, for example, show us mysterious ambivalent forces at work and in the end, it puts the responsibility to act good or evil to the choice of the individual, ultimately these stories are of good triumphing over evil. This can have counter-gospel messages as they can send messages of the power of self over God but this doesn't mean they can't be reconciled to gospel messages.

Don Richardson is a missionary known for coining the phrase "redemptive analogies" He believed within every culture existed accounts and heart values that can be reconciled to proclaim the gospel. He used an example of a peace child where two fighting tribes would exchange a child and each would be raised in the other tribe as one of their own and this would initiate peace in the tribes, Richardson used this to point to Christ as the peace child between us and God. Redemptive analogies are essentially contextualization methods but even though the terms are new the approach is old. Paul tells us "to become all things to all people for the sake of the gospel" becoming weak to the weak so that the weak may be ministered to and hear the gospel. Throughout history, Christians have done this fairly naturally, it's why old pagan festivals are now Christian or why we use a pagan name for God (from Germanic sources "got").

I believe these redemptive analogies can be used on many more fronts such as in stories of fantasy as well. We shouldn't be scared of talking about the supernatural even the make-believe supernatural so long as the message can be reconciled to point to Christ. Harry Potter and Star Wars do not have an explicit Christian message nor were they written by believers yet they can be used to point to the gospel. There is no reason to bar these things from Christian living.

derpytia · Feb 22, 2019

It depends on the game. I've played Dungeons and Dragons before and our group's quest had to do with saving the world from orcs. Then we we did the next campaign it had to do with saving the world from demons and that's when I had to stop playing.

Depends on the game, depends on the people, and depends on your own state of faith.

Jadis40 · Feb 22, 2019

dms1972 said:
I agree that people can play a game simply as a game, and not immerse themselves in it. The backstory in Oblivion doesn't interest me a lot, I mainly bought the game to see the graphics, which were in advance of everything else at the time.

The graphics were cutting edge for the time, and the desktop I had when it came out couldn't handle it. The laptop I got next still struggled somewhat, and I couldn't play Skyrim on it when that came out in 2011. I purchased a new laptop in 2015, and I can play Skyrim on it, just not at full settings.

On the other hand, I really enjoy the lore and background story of the Elder Scrolls world. My biggest complaint is that in Skyrim people are hailing you as the big hero of the story practically off the bat. Oblivion, you're basically second fiddle. Morrowind (to this day it's still my favorite) did it right with the slow build, and you had no clue why you were on Morrowind, or what the Emperor had in mind when he ordered your release to a backwater province of the Empire.

Bible Highlighter · Feb 22, 2019

NeedyFollower said:
Paul said to follow him as he follows Christ ....I wonder how our brothers in the faith ...Paul , Peter , Barnabas , etc. would be "redeeming the time for the days are evil . " I mean it is a valid question. What activities would these grown men who professed Christ give themselves to if they lived today ? How did they spend their time then ? What plays , in between persecutions and sufferings, did they take their families to see ? After their solemn gatherings , prayer vigils and communion ...who were the sporting teams that excited Peter and Paul and the rest of the congregants ..Do you suppose they pulled for the same team or maybe made side bets over golf ? Teach the young men to be sober minded ...grave and serious ...All of these exhortations from the bible ...theses guys sounded serious . Role playing and games ? No , brother ..It was life and/or eternal death for the early apostles . But not for Demas ..for Demas has forsaken us having loved this present world .

Right. I agree. Why would they be cheering for sports teams who not saved? Their mission was to see all men saved. To cheer on unsaved worldly men and their ways is contrary to what the gospel and following Jesus Christ was all about. The whole pick up your cross and denying yourself would not make any sense in light of such things. Role playing games (even if they were to be designed to be more edifying) are designed to be more self centered or self serving - IMO. To make salvation into a game or to live the life of our Lord into a sport within our minds is not something that I think God would desire us to do. Books, and movies are one thing because they can be tools so as to reach the lost. But we as believers still have to be crazy wildly careful that these things point to Jesus and His love so as to help us to love Him and others.

Bible Highlighter · Feb 22, 2019

Michael Collum said:
The law of liberty isn't a commandment, it is a nature that is living within us.

It sure sounds like a law to me (according to the Bible).

"But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed." (James 1:25).

21 "...lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. " (James 2:21-22).

Gregory Thompson · Feb 22, 2019

Jason0047 said:
It sure sounds like a law to me (according to the Bible).

"But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed." (James 1:25).

21 "...lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. " (James 2:21-22).

This has been a great conversation. Thank you.

I might start a thread on this topic later on.

Bible Highlighter · Feb 22, 2019

Foxfyre said:
I respect your beliefs in this matter even though I probably won't be sharing them. Yes, sorcery and magic inspired by demons and for their purposes is evil and should be completely avoided. I simply cannot put fantasy and fiction that promotes kindness over cruelty, love over hatred, goodness over evil in the same category. And I trust our gift to discern spirits to inform us of which is which.

I just can't imagine that the story of Cinderella and her fairy godmother ever harmed a single child and it has reinforced positive values in millions of them.

The world of Star Trek has values that can inspire people to live a moral life. However, it is not in line with the truth. The universe promotes atheism or a belief in other false gods. Gene Roddenberry was an atheist and he actually insulted the Christian faith. Why would I want to watch a show that was created by someone who is opposed to the faith and everything I hold dear?

Please keep in mind, that I used to be a huge Star Trek fan. I used to know all the episode names by heart and I owned on DVD all of the five live action series (The Original Series to Enterprise) and all of the films (up until 2016). The world of Star Trek encouraged you to better yourself even without the pursuit of money or wealth. How noble. But what about the other sins in Star Trek that it promoted? Should I ignore them?

Many of the leading heroes of Star Trek (the captains) were either agnostic (Picard) or atheists (Janeway) or they believed in false gods (Sisko).

Picard, Riker, etc. slept around with women outside of marriage. They did not acknowledge Jesus as Savior or Lord. They are unsaved men.

As for magic portrayed in Disney films:

Again, you cannot change the reality of sin just because it is in a movie or it is declared as fantasy. Again, do you not see a problem with cartoon inappropriate content movies? I am sure you do because things like that are ingrained within our culture as clearly evil. Even non-Christians can see the destructive nature of such films. But when it comes to sins like sorcery? Why does it become any less a sin when it is portrayed in a movie or book? God's Word condemns magic or sorcery. It was so serious in the OT, that God's people were to kill anyone who was a sorcerer. Granted in the NT, we are to love our enemies now, but the sin has not changed. God is not suddenly open and accepting of magic now. Magic or sorcery is still a power outside of God. It is the working of the enemy. So yes, I am saying that even a movie that portrays love, and doing good is wrong if they also promote magic. Why? Because if they get into doing REAL witchcraft by the influences of the subtle influences of these films and books promoting magic, they are going to go in the opposite direction away from God and deeper into darkness.

God is about relationships. He wants us to walk in His light and know His love, so we can love Him and others. But if we prefer darkness or sin (even in a fantasy setting), how can we walk in the light of His love? How can we serve God if our minds are serving sin or looking away from the sins of this world?

Jesus paid a great price for our sins. It is insulting to look the other way at these sin - IMO. But you are free to believe as you wish.

May the Lord and His love shine upon you in a great way today.

Bible Highlighter · Feb 22, 2019

THE W said:
Nah, better luck next time slick.

If this is how you feel though, no RPGs for you then.

Romans 14

But how can you deny yourself as a part of picking up your cross and following Jesus if you are playing a role playing game that promotes sorcery that is clearly a sin condemned in the Bible? Can we sin in our minds with God being okay with that? Matthew 5:28-30 suggests otherwise.

May God's goodness be upon you today.

Bible Highlighter · Feb 22, 2019

2PhiloVoid said:
Because it could be fun?

But really, I think there is more than one consideration about whether playing any game is ethically wrong or permissible for a Christian, such as whether the RPG is sexual or practically occult in essence. D&D, for instance, can be played simply as a groups of good guys taking on some bad monsters, perhaps even with some ethical lessons installed within the gameplay as it moves along.

They take on those bad monsters with the use of magicians or the approval of them and their sin in that universe. Magic is not a problem in this world. But to God, magic or sorcery was so serious of a sin, that He told His people to kill a sorcerer. Granted, we are under the New Covenant now, and we are to love our enemies, but that does not mean we are in acceptance of witchcraft now. The problem with these games is that they do not condemn witchcraft, but it openly encourages you to accept it as normal. So a person can then think they can dabble in the dark arts in real life. I know. I used to play these games. I wanted to do real spells when I was kid as a result of D&D and other role playing games. Therein lies the problem. It opens a person up to the enemy instead of God.

Bible Highlighter · Feb 22, 2019

Kenny'sID said:
Some of us don't give the story of the RPG a second thought, we just like the challenge of the kill...perfectly innocent.

But we as Christians are not focused on killing anyone. Jesus and His followers actually taught non-resistance and or pacifism. Jesus said that we are to love our enemies and that we are to pray and do good towards them. If they strike us on the cheek, we are to turn to them the other cheek also. Yes, one day Jesus will return and destroy the nations that come up against Him and His saints will be following Him, but this will be disembodied saints who have already lived out their faith.

Also, you cannot ignore the sin of sorcery in these games, too.
God clearly condemns sorcery or witchcraft in the Bible. To ignore this sin is to turn a blind eye to what God hates when you play these games. Sure, you may not be inclined to turn to witchcraft, but what about another player in your group? Maybe he will think witchcraft is harmless because he is influenced by it's use in the game and he will want to play around by doing real spells. What then? You would be in essence in part to blame because you did not speak out against this sin that influenced him in the game.

Bible Highlighter · Feb 22, 2019

derpytia said:
It depends on the game. I've played Dungeons and Dragons before and our group's quest had to do with saving the world from orcs. Then we we did the next campaign it had to do with saving the world from demons and that's when I had to stop playing.

Depends on the game, depends on the people, and depends on your own state of faith.

Being able to play certain role playing game scenarios does not depend on your state of faith. Playing role playing games is not even a part of the faith or the Bible. Role playing games promote witchcraft. You can be a sorcerer in these games and it is not a problem with others. Yet, God clearly condemns witchcraft in His Word. People who were sorcerers in the Old Testament were to be killed. Granted, we are under the New Covenant now and we are to love our enemies, but the sin of witchcraft is not a sin that has changed now. Witchcraft is still a very serious sin to God. To play a game that promotes this sin that can lead others into doing the real thing is wrong. Even toying around with the sin in one's mind is also sinning in one's heart. For Jesus said that one can commit adultery in one's heart and be condemned for it (See Matthew 5:28-30). So if someone commits sorcery in their heart, it would be like they were doing the real deal in God's eyes. For witchcraft is a serious sin.

As for your point about demons being entered into the game:

This shows the problems with even a Bible based role playing game. We as believers are to think on those things that are good and lovely.

"Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things." (Philippians 4:8).

Bible Highlighter · Feb 22, 2019

DamianWarS said:
if I imagine having sex with someone who is not my wife it is the same as actually committing adultery because in both circumstances my heart is guilty. However if I imagine doing magic it is not the same as sorcery itself. This is because to actually commit sorcery you must draw power from dark supernatural forces and this is the sin. If I imagine only the manifestation without the interaction with these forces the manifestation stands on its own merits but does not inherit the sin of sorcery. The sin of the heart happens when you imagine interacting with the force of darkness while acting out the magic. So for example I may act out stealing or visualize it in my head and not be guilty of stealing, it becomes sinful when stealing reflects a desire of my heart. With sorcery the desire is seeking the supernatural power from outside yourself, however the manifestation of the power can be separated and then innocently acted out. For example reading a book visualizing you are flying.

That is splitting hairs. In the OT: God did not even allow for sorcerers to even live. So just the existence of a living breathing sorcerer is an abomination to God. Besides, nowhere does God's Word condone witchcraft on any level as you suggest. Witchcraft in any form is wrong to God. This sin will not be in Heaven or His Kingdom.

we all get that, but this skirts around the issue. non-christian books are not inherently evil.

Yes they are evil. You are simply overlooking the many sins presented within them. You simply cannot see it because you like them.

In the case of the Narina series it is a Christian book with a Christian message and in the case of LOTR it's not explicitly a Christian message but Tolkien believed that you don't have to write the explicit gospel for it to exist and it naturally will pour out of a believer, as such there are a lot of gospel metaphors in the text. But in books written by non-believers, they too are not inherently evil and if supernatural powers exist within the books it's the source of the power that can be labelled evil.

It's a false gospel because they are promoting their gospel message with witchcraft being okay with God, and it is not. God is never okay with witchcraft.

Harry Potter and Star Wars, for example, show us mysterious ambivalent forces at work and in the end, it puts the responsibility to act good or evil to the choice of the individual, ultimately these stories are of good triumphing over evil. This can have counter-gospel messages as they can send messages of the power of self over God but this doesn't mean they can't be reconciled to gospel messages.

Don Richardson is a missionary known for coining the phrase "redemptive analogies" He believed within every culture existed accounts and heart values that can be reconciled to proclaim the gospel. He used an example of a peace child where two fighting tribes would exchange a child and each would be raised in the other tribe as one of their own and this would initiate peace in the tribes, Richardson used this to point to Christ as the peace child between us and God. Redemptive analogies are essentially contextualization methods but even though the terms are new the approach is old. Paul tells us "to become all things to all people for the sake of the gospel" becoming weak to the weak so that the weak may be ministered to and hear the gospel. Throughout history, Christians have done this fairly naturally, it's why old pagan festivals are now Christian or why we use a pagan name for God (from Germanic sources "got").

I believe these redemptive analogies can be used on many more fronts such as in stories of fantasy as well. We shouldn't be scared of talking about the supernatural even the make-believe supernatural so long as the message can be reconciled to point to Christ. Harry Potter and Star Wars do not have an explicit Christian message nor were they written by believers yet they can be used to point to the gospel. There is no reason to bar these things from Christian living.

There are many false gospels. These books do exactly that. They present another gospel.

Jadis40 · Feb 22, 2019

Sorry, but after reading you post the same talking points in replies to different people, you haven't convinced me that playing role-playing games is sinful, or that saying "I cast magic missile." is the same as actual sorcery. It's a roll of a 1d4, nothing more.

After the topic on music, and now this thread, and the books and movies you mentioned in this thread, it seems you're trying to create a neat little box of things you approve of, and other people need to do the same. In other words, I'm not going to stop enjoying the games, movies, books and TV shows that I enjoy simply because someone else thinks I should start watching, reading, watching, and listening to things they think I should instead.

This meme pretty much sums up my attitude (I'm single, and don't have kids, but I'm sure you'll get the point.)

Kenny'sID · Feb 22, 2019

Jason0047 said:
But we as Christians are not focused on killing anyone.

It was sarcasm.

And no one is killing anyone. We all know it's a game..there is no focus on killing because we know we aren't killing. None of the Characters are real, and we know that.

The focus is on running the gauntlet and getting to the next level for me a single player. For others it's a matter of doing better than the opposing player/team. It's little more than running a foot race with the goal to win.

Bible Highlighter · Feb 22, 2019

I just happened to come across this passage today and speaks to the problem of role playing games.

3 "Endure suffering along with me, as a good soldier of Christ Jesus.
4 Soldiers don’t get tied up in the affairs of civilian life, for then they cannot please the officer who enlisted them.
5 And athletes cannot win the prize unless they follow the rules."
(2 Timothy 2:3-5) (NLT).

Bible Highlighter · Feb 22, 2019

Jadis40 said:
Sorry, but after reading you post the same talking points in replies to different people, you haven't convinced me that playing role-playing games is sinful, or that saying "I cast magic missile." is the same as actual sorcery. It's a roll of a 1d4, nothing more.

After the topic on music, and now this thread, and the books and movies you mentioned in this thread, it seems you're trying to create a neat little box of things you approve of, and other people need to do the same. In other words, I'm not going to stop enjoying the games, movies, books and TV shows that I enjoy simply because someone else thinks I should start watching, reading, watching, and listening to things they think I should instead.

This meme pretty much sums up my attitude (I'm single, and don't have kids, but I'm sure you'll get the point.)

View attachment 251825

Of course not everyone is going to see what I am proposing. It is hard to let go of the things of this world that people love. These things are so important to them, that any notion of putting them away for Jesus Christ is immediately rejected out of hand even if you offer them clear passages in the Bible that tell them about how these things are sinful.

Again, Matthew 5:28-30 makes it clear that you can commit adultery in your heart by fantasizing about a woman sexually. Jesus says that a person can be cast into hell fire for such a thing.

God's Word condemns sorcery or witchcraft.

Deuteronomy 18:9–12 says, “When you enter the land the Lord your God is giving you, do not learn to imitate the detestable ways of the nations there. Let no one be found among you who sacrifices their son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. Anyone who does these things is detestable to the Lord.”

So if you fantasize about how doing these things are okay in some fantasy world, you are fantasizing about something that is detestable to the Lord. We know from Scripture that fantasizing about adultery is just as much condemned as the act of adultery. So this is a slippery slope at best.

I know. I used to want to cast spells when I was a kid as a result of the influence of role playing games. I am grateful to the Lord, that I did not stick with doing such things when nothing happened.

But you can see whatever you want to see. Just know that what you are proposing is not in line with the Bible and or reality.

Jadis40 · Feb 22, 2019

You're right, I don't see what you're proposing, because I think you're wrong. And, yes, I do reject it. Not because of the Bible, but because you want every one else to change to your point of view. Sorry, not going to happen.

Bible Highlighter · Feb 22, 2019

Kenny'sID said:
It was sarcasm.

And no one is killing anyone. We all know it's a game..there is no focus on killing because we know we aren't killing. None of the Characters are real, and we know that.

The focus is on running the gauntlet and getting to the next level for me a single player. For others it's a matter of doing better than the opposing player/team. It's little more than running a foot race with the goal to win.

But it's more than that. You may have convinced yourself otherwise, but the Bible teaches that you can sin even by fantasizing (See again: Matthew 5:28-30). For a person can commit adultery in their heart by fantasizing about having sex with another woman. Some might try to undo the words of Jesus here and say that it might be okay in some circumstances to fantasize about a woman because it is not really them but your imagination of them, right? Or they can imagine this woman as an elf or as a cartoon person and so that makes fornicating in one's mind alright because it is now a fictional representation of this woman. But it is still sinning in one's mind. One is still committing adultery in their heart. They are committing sex outside of marriage in their mind. If one thinks about doing sinful things like murder even in a fantasy setting, they are sinning in their mind in this fictional scenario and approving of sin in a fantasy world. We are to lead every thought captive to Jesus Christ. Why would we want to imagine a world of sinful things that God hates? We should seek to love God and to imagine good things and not evil and sinful things. You can say it is all about the goal of winning, but this is just turning a blind eye to the sinful things within the game that you simply do not want to see. They cannot be erased or stopped unless you stop playing and or endorsing the game. The game leads people to think on sinful things (Whether you want that to happen or not).

Are Roleplaying Games Sinful?

Are Roleplaying Games Sinful?

Yes.

No.

Maybe. It depends.

I don't know.

Other - Please explain.

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Follower of Isa Al Masih

Compassion.

Senior Member

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Senior Member

Well-Known Member

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Senior Member

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Similar threads